http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071102/ap_on_re_us/california_wildfires

SANTA CLARITA, Calif. - When arson investigators went looking for the person who set a blaze that scorched 60 square miles and destroyed 21 homes, Linda Conner says she knew right where to send them.


Minutes after the fire broke out, Conner said, she had raced up a hill toward the source of the flames. At the top, she saw a stunned-looking 10-year-old boy and his parents frantically trying to beat the flames down with towels.

"There's no reason to talk to other people," Conner, a horse trainer at the ranch where the fire started, recalled telling arson investigators. "You need to go straight up the road and talk to that boy."

The 10-year-old quickly admitted he had been playing with matches.

On Thursday, as authorities considered whether to file criminal charges, neighbors gave conflicting accounts of the boy's behavior.

Denise Tomey, who runs the Carousel Ranch where the boy lived in a small trailer with his family, described him as a quiet child who often played outside with his brother and the family's small white and tan dog, Spike.

"From what I know, he's a good kid," said Tomey, executive director of the ranch, which provides riding lessons to developmentally disabled children. The boy's father tends horses there and the boy attends a nearby school.

"He's a child and I certainly believe that he had no malice, and I absolutely believe it was accidental," Tomey said.

Some neighbors, though, called the 10-year-old a troublesome child.

Linny Martin, who lives across the road, said she often caught him throwing rocks at her horses. When she yelled at him to stop, she said, he would run up the hill to his family's trailer.

"He's got a lot of problems," Martin said.

The boy's name is being withheld. Legal experts say arson charges against him are unlikely, given that he may have been too young to understand how much damage his match-play could cause.

The fire he admitted starting was one of more than 15 that roared across a wide swath of Southern California last week, blackening 809 square miles from north of Los Angeles to the Mexican border and destroying more than 2,000 homes. Causes have ranged from arson to downed power lines to sparks set off by construction work.

The Santa Clarita fire, which started Oct. 21, was traced to an area just outside the boy's hilltop trailer home. Neither the home nor the ranch was damaged.

The boy attended a nearby school. Tomey said she never saw him bring classmates home or play with any of the children on the ranch.

Authorities originally gave his age as 12, but a Los Angeles County sheriff's spokesman said Thursday that was an error.

Prosecutors said they would review evidence submitted by investigators before deciding whether to bring charges. In the meantime, the boy and his mother have left the ranch, Tomey said.

"Obviously I feel terrible for the people who are affected by the fire, and I know the child felt terrible about it," Tomey said.

The fire is believed to have started about 50 yards behind the family's trailer, where a vast triangle of blackened brush dips into a shallow canyon before disappearing over a ridge.

Wilted cacti and charred, brittle bushes litter the landscape behind the white mobile home, where Tomey said the family lived for less than a year. It is fronted by potted plants, and a vegetable garden around the back is surrounded by a white picket fence.

The blaze was reported by an employee who called 911, Tomey said.

Some legal experts say serious criminal charges are unlikely.

To win an arson conviction, prosecutors would have to prove the boy intended to cause harm, which would be difficult given that they seem to have accepted his explanation that the fire was an accident, said Cyn Yamashiro, who directs Loyola Law School's Center for Juvenile Law and Policy.

The prosecutor's office was "not sure whether they'll bring any charges, given that it was an accidental fire," Los Angeles County fire Capt. Michael Brown said Wednesday. In a news conference Wednesday, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he did not think the child meant any harm.

The boy could be incarcerated for three years if found guilty of a lesser charge of unlawfully starting a fire. For that count, prosecutors would have to prove only that he understood the risks of his actions, but Yamashiro said winning a conviction on even that charge could be difficult.

"They'd have to prove that at 10 years old he really appreciated what the risk of playing with matches would have been," Yamashiro said. "It's difficult to prosecute him under that theory."

If the boy is convicted, state law requires that the court seek monetary damages as restitution for the millions of dollars lost by victims and spent on firefighting, Yamashiro said. His parents, however, wouldn't face criminal charges.

Carousel Ranch sits on a canyon road that winds between brush-covered hillsides studded sparsely with homes, many of them one-story clapboard houses with abandoned cars and weathered swingsets out front. Some residents still aren't sure how to react to news that a 10-year-old playing with matches devastated the area.

"What do you do? It was a kid," said Peter Kaulbach, 49, who lost his home on his family's Santa Clarita pumpkin farm. "It's almost like I don't have time to think about that issue right now."

Wow....did the parents or the person who saw what happened never report it until the investigators came around?? All I can say is that they are all negligent if that is the case :no

Wow....did the parents or the person who saw what happened never report it until the investigators came around?? All I can say is that they are all negligent if that is the case :no

I was thinking the same thing. If they knew they should have said something right away.

throw the book at the kid and the parents.

with each action it causes a reaction.

I was thinking the same thing. If they knew they should have said something right away.

I mean, it's all good that they tried to put it out, but 60 miles and 21 homes later ......sad, so so sad :no

throw the book at the kid and the parents.

with each action it causes a reaction.

thats kinda harsh ...the kid is freakin 10 yrs old!

thats kinda harsh ...the kid is freakin 10 yrs old!

Yes it is rather harsh:yes...but I do agree that there should be some form of punishment for him and his parents....even if it was an accident he should not have been playing with matches at all.

wow can u imagine IF it was an accident growing up knowing you did that...or on the flip side knowing u lost ur home because a 10 year old was playing with matches...

thats kinda harsh ...the kid is freakin 10 yrs old!

not really.

hahahaha.

Keep in mind,I dont like kids.

But here in VA an 18 yr old emptied 60 rounds into two cops and a police station,and the kid also had over 300 rounds and more guns before the cops were able to take him out and kill him.

The guns were all registered in the parent's name,and no one got in troubleThe parents got off.

What do you say to the spouses,the police station,the police family community and the friends of those two cops? 'Oooops,sorry he just forgot to take some mediciation' or 'Ooooops,we didnt think hed get ahold of over 300 rounds,assault rifes,handguns,and shotguns.' (all which the kid had in his car.)

Im sorry,if you cant be a proper parent then you need to not have them.The kid should def be taken away from the parents and be put in some sort of confinement.

He obviously cannot be properly cared for and watched.

The kid needs to be punished and see what his "playing" caused.

not really.

hahahaha.

Keep in mind,I dont like kids.

But here in VA an 18 yr old emptied 60 rounds into two cops and a police station,and the kid also had over 300 rounds and more guns before the cops were able to take him out and kill him.

The guns were all registered in the parent's name,and no one got in troubleThe parents got off.

What do you say to the spouses,the police station,the police family community and the friends of those two cops? 'Oooops,sorry he just forgot to take some mediciation' or 'Ooooops,we didnt think hed get ahold of over 300 rounds,assault rifes,handguns,and shotguns.' (all which the kid had in his car.)

Im sorry,if you cant be a proper parent then you need to not have them.The kid should def be taken away from the parents and be put in some sort of confinement.

He obviously cannot be properly cared for and watched.

The kid needs to be punished and see what his "playing" caused.

Just the bolded statement....
Why do you think that he can not be properly cared for and watched?? ANd do you mean by his parents with that statement??

Not being rude...just an honest question

wow can u imagine IF it was an accident growing up knowing you did that...or on the flip side knowing u lost ur home because a 10 year old was playing with matches...


Yeah,If I did something like that I wouldnt be standing because my mother believed in discipline through beating a kid.If we didnt respect her we got a beating.Thats just how it is.

I know this day in age you get CPS if you even let your kid go without dinner or dont let him play with his friends as a punishment.

If that kid burned my house down I'd want him punished too.

I had friends directly effected by this kid 'playing with matches.' I have family in that area too.

I dont want kids,so you cant use "my" kids as an arguement.

That kid should be punished plain and simple.To what extent I havent decided but it shouldnt be skirted under the rug and excused as an "accident."

He needs to learn that when you DESTROY PEOPLE'S PROPERTY,you get in trouble.

throw the book at the kid and the parents.

with each action it causes a reaction.

hate to say it but ITA.
harsh or not.if hes let off about this.imagine what this 10 year old could be like at 20.

some form of punishment needs to be given because i highly doubt the kid would learn from just a "slap on the wrist"
they should have reported that way before now if they knew about it...
:no

hate to say it but ITA.
harsh or not.if hes let off about this.imagine what this 10 year old could be like at 20.

some form of punishment needs to be given because i highly doubt the kid would learn from just a "slap on the wrist"
they should have reported that way before now if they knew about it...
:no

oh whatever, kids do things all the time they shouldnt do. It doesnt mean he's gonna be a damn criminal arsonist!

Yeah,If I did something like that I wouldnt be standing because my mother believed in discipline through beating a kid.If we didnt respect her we got a beating.Thats just how it is.

I know this day in age you get CPS if you even let your kid go without dinner or dont let him play with his friends as a punishment.

If that kid burned my house down I'd want him punished too.

I had friends directly effected by this kid 'playing with matches.' I have family in that area too.

I dont want kids,so you cant use "my" kids as an arguement.

That kid should be punished plain and simple.To what extent I havent decided but it shouldnt be skirted under the rug and excused as an "accident."

He needs to learn that when you DESTROY PEOPLE'S PROPERTY,you get in trouble.

Its not like he set fire to people's houses on PURPOSE!

The child should be repremanded, however, incarcertation (in my opinion) would not be beneficial nor appropriate for an accidental fire.

I do not feel that children should be incarcerated in many circumstances:

"Jason Zeidenberg, policy analyst with the Center for Juvenile and Criminal Justice, which provided some of the research for Amnesty's report, said that the United States is the world's most prolific jailer of children.

"The US puts more of its children behind bars than any other nation on earth. To give you a comparison, the U.S. has more than five times the number of incarcerated children as India, a country of nine hundred million people."

Further, Zeidenberg argues, children who are incarcerated, even in juvenile facilities, are more likely to re-offend, and have worse future economic prospects than those who receive alternative sentences.

"Children who have been incarcerated are three times more likely to re-offend within the next year as children who are sentenced to alternatives to incarceration. Such alternatives can include counseling, community service, reparations and a whole host of others. Also, all of these alternatives are much less expensive than incarceration."

Amnesty's report also notes that despite international standards which preclude the use of solitary confinement for children, the practice is all but standard in the US. The report cites a 1992 national study which found nearly 89,000 cases in which a child was placed in solitary confinement for more than 24 hours.

Those children who end up in adult institutions, however, have it worst of all. Children in adult institutions are eight times more likely to commit suicide, five times more likely to be raped, and three times more likely to be beaten by staff than are children in juvenile facilities.

"The very act of placing a child into an adult facility, often integrated into an adult criminal population, makes it likely that the child will accumulate physical, emotional and psychological scars that will last a lifetime. Imprisoning children in this manner is an act not of rehabilitation, but rather of debilitation."

The Juvenile Justice Bill, introduced in the last session of Congress, would have mandated that children as young as fourteen be transferred by states into their adult justice systems for certain categories of crimes including certain drug crimes. And while that bill never made it out of the House, Zeidenberg says that some version of juvenile "justice" legislation can be expected in the next session.

The Center for Juvenile and Criminal Justice and many of its reports are online at http://www.cjcj.org. The Amnesty International feature section on Juvenile Justice is online at http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/juvenile/."

thats kinda harsh ...the kid is freakin 10 yrs old!
Hell yeah

not really.

hahahaha.

Keep in mind,I dont like kids.

But here in VA an 18 yr old emptied 60 rounds into two cops and a police station,and the kid also had over 300 rounds and more guns before the cops were able to take him out and kill him.

The guns were all registered in the parent's name,and no one got in troubleThe parents got off.

What do you say to the spouses,the police station,the police family community and the friends of those two cops? 'Oooops,sorry he just forgot to take some mediciation' or 'Ooooops,we didnt think hed get ahold of over 300 rounds,assault rifes,handguns,and shotguns.' (all which the kid had in his car.)

Im sorry,if you cant be a proper parent then you need to not have them.The kid should def be taken away from the parents and be put in some sort of confinement.

He obviously cannot be properly cared for and watched.

The kid needs to be punished and see what his "playing" caused.
People like you scare the shit out of me for my KIDS sake!

oh whatever, kids do things all the time they shouldnt do. It doesnt mean he's gonna be a damn criminal arsonist!
:yes

Its not like he set fire to people's houses on PURPOSE!

Exactly!!!!

Yes he needs some sort of punishment, community service sounds really good!!! But "throw the book at him :rolleyes WTFever!

Sounds like they need to do some more investigating, see if the parents were negligent or not. A kid that age will probably have only a dim idea of consequences. I worked with kids that age who had been incarcerated and jail did not usually cure them of their ways. Either they had to have been arrested multiple times for it to take effect, or they had to grow out of it, or the parents had to step up and go above and beyond the call of duty for a while if their kid was getting in serious trouble.

Not to mention that many understaffed and underfunded jails just end up being places introducing kids to professional criminals and sociopaths and getting them invested in a criminal lifestyle.

not really.

hahahaha.

Keep in mind,I dont like kids.

But here in VA an 18 yr old emptied 60 rounds into two cops and a police station,and the kid also had over 300 rounds and more guns before the cops were able to take him out and kill him.

The guns were all registered in the parent's name,and no one got in troubleThe parents got off.

What do you say to the spouses,the police station,the police family community and the friends of those two cops? 'Oooops,sorry he just forgot to take some mediciation' or 'Ooooops,we didnt think hed get ahold of over 300 rounds,assault rifes,handguns,and shotguns.' (all which the kid had in his car.)

Im sorry,if you cant be a proper parent then you need to not have them.The kid should def be taken away from the parents and be put in some sort of confinement.

He obviously cannot be properly cared for and watched.

The kid needs to be punished and see what his "playing" caused.


The bolded part really scares me... REALLY scares me... just because you don't like kids, doesn't mean you should incarcerate a 10 year old because he ACCIDENTALLY started a fire. Put yourself in his shoes... whether his parents would "beat" him or not if he got in trouble is of no importance.... this kid is going to have SERIOUS Psychological issues because of all this.. he KNOWS that fire destroyed homes.. he knows he started it... throwing him in jail with the CRAZY people who MEANT to do horrible things is NOT a good idea.

Community service would be more influential on the kid. Have him help with the clean up. Have him help serve meals in shelters for the families. That will teach him more than locking him OR his parents up. Have his parents help with the community service as well. Time spent SEEING the damage of the actions will be more punishment than jail time. That's what's wrong with our country.

Kids get thrown in jail.. they are taken away from their parents and sent to foster homes because the "government" *and I quote that because of the departments involved* thinks that they aren't being well taken care of...

take the money that would be spent jailing these kids and counsel them AND their families... send their parents to parenting classes and help them get back on track..... CPS needs to take their noses out of certain situations and pay attention to others. People in general need to be looking out for each other rather than being the selfish disgusting humans that are so often encountered now.

I don't care that people don't like kids... that doesn't mean that KIDS are the reason behind a lot of our problems and when they screw up they should just be punished to the nth power.

We ALL need to take an active stance and do our part to HELP raise responsible, reputable, charismatic, compassionate, honest, wise kids otherwise our country is going to go to shit.


I feel sorry for the boy. He had probably played with matches before and nothing happened. This just means we need to educate our kids more about dangerous things, but don't SHELTER them from it, which is what is beginning to happen more and more. They won't learn if we don't teach them, but punishing them when they don't understand it, is just going to make them hateful.

not really.

hahahaha.

Keep in mind,I dont like kids.

But here in VA an 18 yr old emptied 60 rounds into two cops and a police station,and the kid also had over 300 rounds and more guns before the cops were able to take him out and kill him.

The guns were all registered in the parent's name,and no one got in troubleThe parents got off.

What do you say to the spouses,the police station,the police family community and the friends of those two cops? 'Oooops,sorry he just forgot to take some mediciation' or 'Ooooops,we didnt think hed get ahold of over 300 rounds,assault rifes,handguns,and shotguns.' (all which the kid had in his car.)

Im sorry,if you cant be a proper parent then you need to not have them.The kid should def be taken away from the parents and be put in some sort of confinement.

He obviously cannot be properly cared for and watched.

The kid needs to be punished and see what his "playing" caused.

not to sound rude...but this whole statement just sounds hateful. I just cant get over it

The bolded part really scares me... REALLY scares me... just because you don't like kids, doesn't mean you should incarcerate a 10 year old because he ACCIDENTALLY started a fire. Put yourself in his shoes... whether his parents would "beat" him or not if he got in trouble is of no importance.... this kid is going to have SERIOUS Psychological issues because of all this.. he KNOWS that fire destroyed homes.. he knows he started it... throwing him in jail with the CRAZY people who MEANT to do horrible things is NOT a good idea.

Community service would be more influential on the kid. Have him help with the clean up. Have him help serve meals in shelters for the families. That will teach him more than locking him OR his parents up. Have his parents help with the community service as well. Time spent SEEING the damage of the actions will be more punishment than jail time. That's what's wrong with our country.

Kids get thrown in jail.. they are taken away from their parents and sent to foster homes because the "government" *and I quote that because of the departments involved* thinks that they aren't being well taken care of...

take the money that would be spent jailing these kids and counsel them AND their families... send their parents to parenting classes and help them get back on track..... CPS needs to take their noses out of certain situations and pay attention to others. People in general need to be looking out for each other rather than being the selfish disgusting humans that are so often encountered now.

I don't care that people don't like kids... that doesn't mean that KIDS are the reason behind a lot of our problems and when they screw up they should just be punished to the nth power.

We ALL need to take an active stance and do our part to HELP raise responsible, reputable, charismatic, compassionate, honest, wise kids otherwise our country is going to go to shit.


I feel sorry for the boy. He had probably played with matches before and nothing happened. This just means we need to educate our kids more about dangerous things, but don't SHELTER them from it, which is what is beginning to happen more and more. They won't learn if we don't teach them, but punishing them when they don't understand it, is just going to make them hateful.

:agree

I agree that the child needs some sort of punishment. If for nothing else to show that there are consequences to his actions. Confinement? No way. Put him to work with clean up from the fire with his parents? Definitely. There is no reason why he and his family can't help with some of the clean up on the weekends.

I agree that the child needs some sort of punishment. If for nothing else to show that there are consequences to his actions. Confinement? No way. Put him to work with clean up from the fire with his parents? Definitely. There is no reason why he and his family can't help with some of the clean up on the weekends.

now I can see that....I see nothing wrong with that....they should volunteer that anyway...but the ULTIMATE punishment is going WAYYY too far. He's just a kid.

I agree that the child needs some sort of punishment. If for nothing else to show that there are consequences to his actions. Confinement? No way. Put him to work with clean up from the fire with his parents? Definitely. There is no reason why he and his family can't help with some of the clean up on the weekends.

:agree
I also have to add if his parents or anyone else knew about this I feel that some type of action should be taken towards the adults. They should know better. I believe the artical said one or both parents and a neighbor saw the child in the act. I agree put them to work and help them rebuild some of the damage done. Let them see first hand what this did.

not really.

hahahaha.

Keep in mind,I dont like kids.

But here in VA an 18 yr old emptied 60 rounds into two cops and a police station,and the kid also had over 300 rounds and more guns before the cops were able to take him out and kill him.

The guns were all registered in the parent's name,and no one got in troubleThe parents got off.

What do you say to the spouses,the police station,the police family community and the friends of those two cops? 'Oooops,sorry he just forgot to take some mediciation' or 'Ooooops,we didnt think hed get ahold of over 300 rounds,assault rifes,handguns,and shotguns.' (all which the kid had in his car.)

Im sorry,if you cant be a proper parent then you need to not have them.The kid should def be taken away from the parents and be put in some sort of confinement.

He obviously cannot be properly cared for and watched.

The kid needs to be punished and see what his "playing" caused.


I agree that he needs some kind of punishment.. but he IS only 10.

Remember you were a child once (for some reason I'm thinking that was like.. yesterday for you, judging by your responses)... everyone was once a child ;) To say you "don't like kids" is pretty shitty. Saying "I don't have any kids and I am ignorant" or "I don't want kids and i am ignorant" would be a little more accurate and less offensive.

Yeah,If I did something like that I wouldnt be standing because my mother believed in discipline through beating a kid.If we didnt respect her we got a beating.Thats just how it is.



Beating anyone, and a child at that, doesn't solve anything. I can not NOT imagine beating my child for ANYTHING!!!

I think this boy needs some type of punishment, and my feeling is community service. He could serve food at homeless shelters, visit schools and teach fire safety. There is so many ways he can learn to HELP society and I hope eventually be able to forgive himself. He will never forget what he did, and he shouldn't, but he can learn from it and hopefully it will make him a better citizen because of it. Throwing him in jail will not help anyone.

:agree
I also have to add if his parents or anyone else knew about this I feel that some type of action should be taken towards the adults. They should know better. I believe the artical said one or both parents and a neighbor saw the child in the act. I agree put them to work and help them rebuild some of the damage done. Let them see first hand what this did.

I agree with that...but I'm a little confused about the bolded part. How many times have u caught ur kids doing something they shouldnt be doing? I mean, I'm sure they didnt GIVE him the matches and say "go play".

I agree that he needs some kind of punishment.. but he IS only 10.

Remember you were a child once (for some reason I'm thinking that was like.. yesterday for you, judging by your responses)... everyone was once a child ;) To say you "don't like kids" is pretty shitty. Saying "I don't have any kids and I am ignorant" or "I don't want kids and i am ignorant" would be a little more accurate and less offensive.

Girl, i couldn't agree with you more on this (the entire 2nd paragraph!).

Yeah,If I did something like that I wouldnt be standing because my mother believed in discipline through beating a kid.If we didnt respect her we got a beating.Thats just how it is.

I know this day in age you get CPS if you even let your kid go without dinner or dont let him play with his friends as a punishment.

If that kid burned my house down I'd want him punished too.

I had friends directly effected by this kid 'playing with matches.' I have family in that area too.

I dont want kids,so you cant use "my" kids as an arguement.

That kid should be punished plain and simple.To what extent I havent decided but it shouldnt be skirted under the rug and excused as an "accident."

He needs to learn that when you DESTROY PEOPLE'S PROPERTY,you get in trouble.


Well this explains everything :giggle

I'm all for spanking when necessary, but I don't BEAT my kids to make them behave properly. I don't need to, they know how to behave based on my parenting. Parents who feel they need to BEAT thier kids are SERIOUSLY lacking in the parenting skills department.

I agree that he needs some kind of punishment.. but he IS only 10.

Remember you were a child once (for some reason I'm thinking that was like.. yesterday for you, judging by your responses)... everyone was once a child ;) To say you "don't like kids" is pretty shitty. Saying "I don't have any kids and I am ignorant" or "I don't want kids and i am ignorant" would be a little more accurate and less offensive.

I'm sorry but this post made me :rofl

Good call!

I think community service sounds great! Unless this child is severely disturbed, I really believe the guilt he is going to feel the rest of his life is punishment enough.
My parents are pretty much the most amazing parents ever... and you can bet my brother still managed to do things he wasn't supposed to! He also had a thing with fire... I think lots of lil boys are interested in it. Thank goodness he never set our yard on fire or anything, he liked melting things, so weird. My parents did everything they could to teach him and prevent him from playing with things he shouldn't.

I still stand by what I said in a previous post. He should have a tour through several burnt homes. But now knowing that he is 10 I also think he is old enough to do some of the less toxic clean up of those houses.

Speaking as someone who used to work in a prison, the kid does NOT deserve that. He deserves community service. The parents, as well as the neighbor, deserve some sort of fine or community service for not reporting it.

As far as the "beating him" comment, that's just ridiculous. At 10 years old, a spanking isn't going to work. He KNOWS what he did was wrong. He can look out and see the devastation. Spanking is more for driving home the idea to a child that doesn't understand (IMO). And, you NEVER beat a child. EVER.