I'm surprised no one has brought it up.

What does everyone think of these immigration proposals?

The Senate Judiciary Committee approved a less stringent version of the bill Monday. It allows for illegal immigrants to continue working in the country for six years if they pay fines and allows them to eventually become eligible for permanent residence.

The bill is now before the whole Senate and is expected to be approved.

Well, I understand to a certain extent that the immigrants are coming over here to earn money and a better lifestyle for their family. I just wish the process of them getting to be legally here were easier for them. You know, like a program that took them through the whole process of learning english, our laws, etc.....I understand the desire for a better life as mexico is hardly a great place to raise a family.

I have not really been watching too much TV lately, or reading the news. Been too busy with my own personal issues, but if anyone has a weblink I can go to (or several)I want to read up on it.

Personal experience, becoming even a resident of this country is incredibly difficult, especially if you're coming from Mexico and certain South American countries. The fines are very high, the red tape is more like a red roadblock, and the INS agents that do it all are rude (well at least the ones I've dealt with).
I know that if decided all of a sudden that I'm no longer worthy of the US and took my papers away and kicked me out, my children would go with me. In my country I cannot guarantee they would live a comfortable oportunity filled life. *shrugg* I have nightmares about it still, because I'm not a citizen yet.
Living in fear of prosecution (like many immigrants who are here, working, paying taxes and living the best life they can) and living in poverty (like many people who want to come to the US but have been denied.deported/or can't afford the fees) is not living.

There needs to be some reform, but taking away the little oportunities that remain for people who don't have much to begin with won't be the right answer. I don't have the answer for what would work, all I know is that my life was in shambles for many years because the current immigration system is not fair and is not being properly run.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5717561,00.html

In talking to my brother today...this has apparently gotten to be very bad...riots have started in Cali today!!
I am gald they are finding a way to help make it easier...I just don't feel that this is the right way to do it personally

There hasn't been any riots. There has been tons of walkouts, thousands of students, all across the nation, biggest ones being in Texas, Los Angeles, San diego, las vegas...

I am so proud of those students right now, I was getting chills and my eyes were welling up as I saw on the news all the walkouts across the nation. I was one of those students at one point, fighting for other injust propositions in the past, I got very nostalgic and wished I could have been there.

There hasn't been any riots. There has been tons of walkouts, thousands of students, all across the nation, biggest ones being in Texas, Los Angeles, San diego, las vegas...

I am so proud of those students right now, I was getting chills and my eyes were welling up as I saw on the news all the walkouts across the nation. I was one of those students at one point, fighting for other injust propositions in the past, I got very nostalgic and wished I could have been there.

Woops...guess my brother didn't get his facts straight..LOL..I haven't really watched the news..guess I will now!!!:blush

I dont have enough information to state an opinion at this point. I know that the immigration system is definitely lacking.... :thinking

The Senate Judiciary Committee approved a less stringent version of the bill Monday. It allows for illegal immigrants to continue working in the country for six years if they pay fines and allows them to eventually become eligible for permanent residence.

The bill is now before the whole Senate and is expected to be approved.

Did anyone read what I posted?

I don't understand why this is such a bad thing? It isn't nearly as strict as what they wanted.

So why be upset about this? I have not fully followed this, so I'm asking to understand.

If you go to my post there is a link at the top of the page that pretty much breaks it down!!!HTH

Thanks, it did. I still think what they want to approve isn't terrible. :shrug

I don't necessarily agree with it...I think it should be stricter. I don't understand why we should make it easy for illegal immigrants to stay in the country. I have absolutely no problem with immigrants coming into the country, legally. I am sure it is hard to do, but why shouldn't it be? There are already so many people in our country that aren't being taken care of, why should we bring more people in that aren't going to be taken care of either? Another proposal would make immigrants who's visas have expired criminals (a misdeameanor) and I think that is fair. If I wanted to move to another country, regardless of the reason, I would obey the laws and regulations set forth, and not feel that I had a right to stay there just because I don't like the country I was born in. Don't get me wrong, I am ALL for families wanting to provide a better life for themselves, so long as they are doing it LEGALLY.

What I don't understand is why all the students are protesting against it...

That's why I don't understand why people are still protesting b/c the revised plan is much less stricter. Actually, I think it works well in an immigrants favor.

That's why I don't understand why people are still protesting b/c the revised plan is much less stricter. Actually, I think it works well in an immigrants favor.

I agree. I read somewhere that some U.S. citizens who were once immigrants and came to country the legal way found it as a "slap in the face" that they were making it so easy now.

I agree. I read somewhere that some U.S. citizens who were once immigrants and came to country the legal way found it as a "slap in the face" that they were making it so easy now.


:yes Phil and I were somewhere...can't remember where...but this Hispanic man was talking to us about how he came to this country as an immigrant but did it the legal way and how it makes him mad to see how immigrants come here now.

I agree with you Rach. I think it's a fair deal - I mean, what's the alternative...send the illegals back where they came from?? Like you, I don't understand why everyone is so up in arms. We're not saying you can't come to our country, but damnit if you want to be here, come legally and be responsible (e.g. pay taxes, etc). One of the things I really appreciate in the proposal is the fact that there are certain expectations of those that are already here illegally, in order to stay here they must pay a $2,000 fine and meet certain standards, one of which is learning english. Thank God.

:yes

One of the things I really appreciate in the proposal is the fact that there are certain expectations of those that are already here illegally, in order to stay here they must pay a $2,000 fine and meet certain standards, one of which is learning english. Thank God.

:yes

I think that the immagrants who come here legally but are not citizens yet should be able to work with no fines at all or red tape what soever. However I believe that the people who come here illegaly should be shipped right back to where they came from because it is not fair to the people who came here legaly and have to wait a million years to be able to work and such. Cause you know that if we tried to go to there country illegaly we are bound to be sent back or worse so why should we turn a blind eye to the illegals who are here. why should the employment in this country be taken up by people who should not legally work in the US? If the people who are here illegaly want to work in the US they should have to go through the red tape like everyone else. Alot of you are like does she know what she is talking about and yes I do my dh and I were stationed in El Centro,Ca for two years we were 7 miles from the mexican border. And no I am not just talking about illegals from Mexico I am talking about Illegals coming from everywhere.

You think the riots are bad NOW?? I'd hate to see what would go down if we started shipping every illegal immigrant back where they came from. On top of that, who do you think would pay for that?? Not their home country, that's for sure. And just to clarify, the legal immigrants are not the ones being targeted.

you know what alot of people are talking about how they need to work but you know what the people who need the jobs that alot of the illegals have is jobs that the people of US need. Alot of people who are here legally cannot get a job becuse alot jobs hire illegals because they do not have to pay them as much and that is not fair to the average joe who cannot get a job in certain place cause they do not want to pay americans because they can get cheaper work from illegals. How is that average joe gonna tell his daughter why he can't get a job huh. I am not saying that is the only reason but I will tell that I could not get a job in el centro at burger king becuase I could not speak spanish and that sucked and there are a lot of people who are worse off than that. So excuse me if I do not feel any sympathy.

Many immigrants, be they illegal or NOT, are doing the jobs that Americans WON'T do. Jobs that people consider themselves to be "too good" for. Average Joe COULD get hired for it, but Average Joe won't apply.

I'm not asking you to have sympathy. Don't take this so personally. I'm simply stating why I agree with the proposition and why I think it makes sense. As are you :dunno Doesn't mean we have to agree.

For me it's not an issue of sympathy at all, but rather what is the best step to take as a country.

I agree with the proposition as well I was just saying why I think that it is only fair that they have to pay and all. and I do not want them to ship them out even I am not that heartless :no I was just stating what I believe because everyone else was doing the same and to be honest with you lighthouse I did not really even read your post so I want you to know I was not making a jab at you. And your right no one asked if I had sympathy for them. I just stated what I felt.

I'm sorry - I guess I misread your tone. I actually think I must have misunderstood just about everything you said :rofl

Oopsie! :hehe

ETA: This is that part that threw me:
However I believe that the people who come here illegaly should be shipped right back to where they came from because it is not fair to the people who came here legaly and have to wait a million years to be able to work and such.

Many immigrants, be they illegal or NOT, are doing the jobs that Americans WON'T do. Jobs that people consider themselves to be "too good" for. Average Joe COULD get hired for it, but Average Joe won't apply.

I'm not asking you to have sympathy. Don't take this so personally. I'm simply stating why I agree with the proposition and why I think it makes sense. As are you :dunno Doesn't mean we have to agree.

For me it's not an issue of sympathy at all, but rather what is the best step to take as a country.


Yeah, she is right. Many of the jobs are landscaping and farm "picking" jobs that many Americans just won't do. It's back-breaking hard labor and they are only paying minimum wage or slightly above that. Thats why the goverment is targeting companies that employ illegal immigrants as well. They take advantage of them, and make a high profit b/c they pay them so little... its completely unfair, but many times its the only kind of work they can find b/c they are illegal immigrants.

I'm sorry - I guess I misread your tone. I actually think I must have misunderstood just about everything you said :rofl

Oopsie! :hehe

ETA: This is that part that threw me:

That is okay I tend to get I tone when I type that I do not mean at all. So I apoligize if you took bad.;)

After reading the quote I now realized I did say it wrong. Sorry. What I meant to say that I did not finish is that they should have to pay like everyone else and those who don't then see about having them deported cause I know that some of them only work here to feed their familys while others do not.

I think the House Bill is total crap. WHEN will government admit that American businesses and the economy as a whole NEEDS immigrant labor?????

There will NEVER ever ever ever be a time that people will not come to this country illegally unless world poverty is eliminated and I'm not holding my breath for that one. :banghead

HENCE why oh WHY don't we let these people become legal so that we can get taxes for all the hard work they do and so that they are not, for example, too scared to go to the hospital when there is a medical emergency for fear of being found out (as illegals)???? :no

Why don't they let them be legal so they can get out of the cycle of poverty sooner and hence be less likely to have their kids turn to crime??

WHY can't we stop being such hypocrites?? Because unless you're 100% American Indian then ALL of your ancestors are part of the fabric of American life thanks 100% to the more open immigration policies of the past. :duh I say hypocrites because most politicians realize full well that immigration cannot be stopped and should not be stopped but they put these limitations in the laws so they can tell their more conservative constituents they were tough. :rolleyes

The proposition DOES allow for them to become legal. Are you suggesting total amnesty? Just *poof* ok you're here so you can stay?

I think the House Bill is total crap. WHEN will government admit that American businesses and the economy as a whole NEEDS immigrant labor?????

There will NEVER ever ever ever be a time that people will not come to this country illegally unless world poverty is eliminated and I'm not holding my breath for that one. :banghead

HENCE why oh WHY don't we let these people become legal so that we can get taxes for all the hard work they do and so that they are not, for example, too scared to go to the hospital when there is a medical emergency for fear of being found out (as illegals)???? :no



American does need immigrant labor, but LEGAL immigrants make up part of that work force too. Hard work is the American way, and just "giving" them rights to be citizens without the fees, paperwork, background checks, etc. is a little overboard for me. That will only encourage more illegal immigrants to come into the country!

And you are right, illegal immigrants will never stop coming into the country, but why not cut down on the amount that do?

I have quite a radical view on this whole issue of immigration, so I'm gonna stay out of this one.

However I do want to say, the work that undocumented immigrants take, on the fields doing the back breaking work? I would love for any of you to spend just one day out there with them and finding out what that's really about. These people ARE also victims. Farmers and corporate pigs take full advantage and those people DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT get paid Anywhere close to minimum wage. Sometimes they are lucky to get paid half the minimum wage. THAT is why they get hired, beause they are willing to do whatever it takes for pennies on the dollar of what the 'average' jo would even come near to. Why do you thing organizations like the United Farm Workers and such a pain in the ass for these 'bosses', because they fight hard JUST to try and get BASIC human living conditions for these workers. Just because they are here undocumented, Does not make them less human. I have been out there, I have marched for justice, I have done the research, I have heard it from the people, I HAVE people like this in my own family. IMO people in this country need to start doing real research if they feel so strongly about such issues and just stop believing everything they hear on 'tv'.

Well Renee, it appears that for once we may be in agreement. Shhhhhh...don't tell :giggle

I feel that the bill should be more strict. yeah let them become legal but I don't think it should be so "easy"
As for the labor jobs not every farmer and such is an immigrant. Lets not forget that there are still MANY people in the south who live the same way they did 50 years ago etc...
I know several people personally who are not immigrants that still work their asses off for a labor job just to put food on the table.
Now living here in TX I sure see a heck of a lot more immigrants than americans building these houses and such but, they aren't "ALL" Immigrants
ok that was my 2 cents worth

I have quite a radical view on this whole issue of immigration, so I'm gonna stay out of this one.

However I do want to say, the work that undocumented immigrants take, on the fields doing the back breaking work? I would love for any of you to spend just one day out there with them and finding out what that's really about. These people ARE also victims. Farmers and corporate pigs take full advantage and those people DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT get paid Anywhere close to minimum wage. Sometimes they are lucky to get paid half the minimum wage. THAT is why they get hired, beause they are willing to do whatever it takes for pennies on the dollar of what the 'average' jo would even come near to. Why do you thing organizations like the United Farm Workers and such a pain in the ass for these 'bosses', because they fight hard JUST to try and get BASIC human living conditions for these workers. Just because they are here undocumented, Does not make them less human. I have been out there, I have marched for justice, I have done the research, I have heard it from the people, I HAVE people like this in my own family. IMO people in this country need to start doing real research if they feel so strongly about such issues and just stop believing everything they hear on 'tv'.

I agree and disagree with what you have to say... the farming industry, as well as the landscaping industry do treat the immigrants poorly. I understand that it is backbreaking work, and I agree 100% that it is unfair that they are treated like that. But would they have to work those jobs if they were legally in the country? No. They would be able to get a legitimate job. If there weren't illegal immigrants taking these positions, you know what would happen? The farming industry would be forced to pay better wages or go out of business. (IMO, they should offer these positions to those who are incarcerated, but thats a whole other topic)

To me, I just don't understand how anyone can justify illegal immigration. It's ILLEGAL. I don't care what anyone says, America is a free country, but with that freedom comes laws and rules, and no matter how shitty or unfair they might seem, the citizens need to abide by them. Illegal aliens are criminals in my opinion, because they came into the country illegally.

Not to mention, not 100% of immigrants are breaking their backs trying to support a family. Many are taking advantage of the system, not paying taxes, doing drugs and committing crimes or are terrorists. Illegal immigrants can't be blanketed as just Mexicans coming across the southern border in an attempt to provide a better life for their family.

And just a note.. my opinions are not based on television. I do watch the news, but I also read the paper, have some college education, have spoken with many people on both sides of the issue, read "underground" newspapers as they are referred as... I am not saying that statement was geared towards me, but I just wanted to respond to it...

To me, I just don't understand how anyone can justify illegal immigration. It's ILLEGAL. I don't care what anyone says, America is a free country, but with that freedom comes laws and rules, and no matter how shitty or unfair they might seem, the citizens need to abide by them. Illegal aliens are criminals in my opinion, because they came into the country illegally.

Not to mention, not 100% of immigrants are breaking their backs trying to support a family. Many are taking advantage of the system, not paying taxes, doing drugs and committing crimes or are terrorists. Illegal immigrants can't be blanketed as just Mexicans coming across the southern border in an attempt to provide a better life for their family.



:agree

I have soo many personal opinons on this and yes my view point is jaded a little by living here in San Diego and seeing the bad side of having illegals living in the shadows of your community.

Basically the way I look it is, if you want to come here then follow the damn rules, take the neccessary steps LEGALLY to bring your ass into America, if you don't like our laws/rules then you may leave no hard feelings. Yes I dont believe the beauracratice red tape should be as hard to get through but it should be there and everyone needs to go through it.

I hate this country somedays too and hate how our society and gov't have turned out but you don't see me trying to bust down the walls of another country trying to get in. So why can't immigrants be respectful to the US.

And as for the kids protesting. If it was my daughter, I'd beat her ass red if she walked out of her classroom over this. You watch the news regarding this and more then half the kids have no clue nor intrest to talk about the issues at hand, instead choose to act like a pack of mad dogs needing a good ass whooping

To me, I just don't understand how anyone can justify illegal immigration. It's ILLEGAL. I don't care what anyone says, America is a free country, but with that freedom comes laws and rules, and no matter how shitty or unfair they might seem, the citizens need to abide by them. Illegal aliens are criminals in my opinion, because they came into the country illegally.

Not to mention, not 100% of immigrants are breaking their backs trying to support a family. Many are taking advantage of the system, not paying taxes, doing drugs and committing crimes or are terrorists. Illegal immigrants can't be blanketed as just Mexicans coming across the southern border in an attempt to provide a better life for their family.



I COMPLETELY Agree with you.

And as for the kids protesting. If it was my daughter, I'd beat her ass red if she walked out of her classroom over this. You watch the news regarding this and more then half the kids have no clue nor intrest to talk about the issues at hand, instead choose to act like a pack of mad dogs needing a good ass whooping

Hell yes! It was very disconcerting to see all these young students on TV protesting, yet they were just yelling and partying, and upon being interviewed, had basically no idea what was going on. I am sure there were plenty of legitimate protesters out there, but seeing all these kids just take it as an opportunity to skip school made the whole thing look like a joke!

AGAIN, just believing what you see on tv. Its very unfair to say more than half the students did not know why they were walking out. I know many high school teachers, and have actually been having dialog with many of them regarding this, and one thing we all agree on is that the news is STILL just media, looking for ratings. To them interviewing students who are intellegent and very knowledgable is just not as exciting. Most of the students of the 5 high school teachers in san diego I have spoken to had dialogues with their studdents after the walkouts. And saw how much passion most of these students had. Yes of course some of those students were just out following the crowd, however MANY MANY many of those students KNOW why they were walking out, they are teenagers, not stupid or ignorant. Some may not have all the knowledge in the world, but this experience has brought politics to light in their education and the experience of a walkout to me is a very important one. It teaches students that in order to make change, you must speak up and act. In order to make change you must be involved in the political system. At that age I was very aware of the political system and more than capable of making a decision such as that, in fact I myself was in the exact same spot as those students when proposition 187 came out and I was a junior in high school. I was the organizer.

Well the newscast I saw was live, so they weren't doing it for ratings. YOu could even tell the reporter was awkward b/c of the one-word answers the students were giving. I just have to agree to disagree with you on this one, b/c I myself have done protests in school before, and I would say 75% of them were just using it as an excuse to get out of school, and 25% were passionate about it.

Well the newscast I saw was live, so they weren't doing it for ratings. YOu could even tell the reporter was awkward b/c of the one-word answers the students were giving. I just have to agree to disagree with you on this one, b/c I myself have done protests in school before, and I would say 75% of them were just using it as an excuse to get out of school, and 25% were passionate about it.

I think it also has to do with neighborhoods. I talked to an old teacher at my old school. Only 25 to 50 students at our school walked out in the last 3 days. My old school is Poway High right here in san diego. To me I find it a relief that to know that not all students are jumping at the chance to act like idiots.

Still its sad that people feel its okay to protest against something that people are doing ILLEGALLY!!! There is a reason why we have laws and rules. If they shouldn't be forced to follow then why should we expect anything else to be followed.