you all know the controversy. so how to you feel about it?

as a northerner, I was always under the impression that the confederate flag stood for the support of southern slavery. but was never fully educated since "the north won". i assumed it was an unacceptable symbol.

so when i moved to VA, i was floored by how many proudly displayed confederate flags i saw. at first i felt offended, as if they "wished the south had won" (i know i may be coming off as naive or closed minded about this part of american culture) but i then saw a bumper sticker that said "history not hatred" which made much more sense to me. i am still uneasy about it because SOME people MIGHT display it as racism, but being new to the south, i'm still not sure. i'm eager to hear what everyone has to say.

so my questions are: what were you brought up to think about the confederate flag & how do you feel when you see it displayed? is it ever offensive?

I have no problem with it. Then again I'm Texan and Texas was a confederate state.

Well I've only seen it as meaning racism...where I'm from thats all I saw it as. I see it on trucks and kids use to wear it on their shirts when I was in middle school....and they meant it as hate. I never saw it as a good history thing but some say it is. I neve been educated on it and no one wanted too when they had it displayed. All of my friends who parents had it in their house i wasnt allowed in their home....:sigh

I don't let it bother me.. I have too many other things to worry about..

Well I've only seen it as meaning racism...where I'm from thats all I saw it as. I see it on trucks and kids use to wear it on their shirts when I was in middle school....and they meant it as hate. I never saw it as a good history thing but some say it is. I neve been educated on it and no one wanted too when they had it displayed. All of my friends who parents had it in their house i wasnt allowed in their home....:sigh

that's how it was where i grew up, but luckily i didnt know any of the flag-displayers personally.

I'm from Mississippi and it's on our state flag so I don't find it offensive. The flag to me and to most people I know is more about history and the "Rebel" meaning to it. My MIL teaches at a small school out in the country and they are the Rebels so this flag is all over that school. It is what you make it. If you believe it to represent hate, then it will. I don't believe it to represent that, just like I don't believe the panther to represent hate, although it very well could be used for that purpose.

It's a historic flag. If someone displayed the 13 star flag, would that be offensive? Slavery was prevalent then, too...

It's a big part of half of the country's history. Displaying it does not make someone a racist.

Are there racists who DO display it? Sure...there are also racists who preach in churches, teach in schools, and display current american flags, too...

So it boils down to not judging a book by it's cover, and respecting the local history of wherever you are.

Just my take! :goodvibes

I always thought that someone who displayed that flag was just proud to be from the south.. :shrug

It's a historic flag. If someone displayed the 13 star flag, would that be offensive? Slavery was prevalent then, too...

It's a big part of half of the country's history. Displaying it does not make someone a racist.

Are there racists who DO display it? Sure...there are also racists who preach in churches, teach in schools, and display current american flags, too...

So it boils down to not judging a book by it's cover, and respecting the local history of wherever you are.

Just my take! :goodvibes

:agree wow i am on a roll today agreeing with you :lol

that being said i think if you (general) displaying it as a way to be racist that's not cool but i see it no different than someone displaying their native country's flag or state flag. JMO

It's a historic flag. If someone displayed the 13 star flag, would that be offensive? Slavery was prevalent then, too...

It's a big part of half of the country's history. Displaying it does not make someone a racist.

Are there racists who DO display it? Sure...there are also racists who preach in churches, teach in schools, and display current american flags, too...

So it boils down to not judging a book by it's cover, and respecting the local history of wherever you are.

Just my take! :goodvibes

Loretta I just have to say how much I just (L) you! You always take everyone's feelings into mind before you post, not just in this thread but in every thread, and you can always state your opinion in a way that doesn't offend anyone. :hugs

That's all I had to say :carryon

It's a historic flag. If someone displayed the 13 star flag, would that be offensive? Slavery was prevalent then, too...

It's a big part of half of the country's history. Displaying it does not make someone a racist.

Are there racists who DO display it? Sure...there are also racists who preach in churches, teach in schools, and display current american flags, too...

So it boils down to not judging a book by it's cover, and respecting the local history of wherever you are.

Just my take! :goodvibes


:yes

It's a cultural and historic symbol.

It's a historic flag. If someone displayed the 13 star flag, would that be offensive? Slavery was prevalent then, too...

It's a big part of half of the country's history. Displaying it does not make someone a racist.

Are there racists who DO display it? Sure...there are also racists who preach in churches, teach in schools, and display current american flags, too...

So it boils down to not judging a book by it's cover, and respecting the local history of wherever you are.

Just my take! :goodvibes

:agree wow i am on a roll today agreeing with you :lol

that being said i think if you (general) displaying it as a way to be racist that's not cool but i see it no different than someone displaying their native country's flag or state flag. JMO

I totally agree with ya'll.
And actually while I was in Mississippi I saw MANY MAAAAANY black people wearing and "sporting" the Dixie flag.

Coming from CA I thought it meant nothing but hate and racism. My dad and his family are from Arkansas and they tried to teach me other wise, but I wouldnt listen. Then we moved to the south, and let me tell you my thinking really hurt alot of peoples feelings. I had many stories told to me and now I think completely different. And I wear it proudly. I have flip flops with the Dixie flag on them and even a t shirt that says "If this flag offends you, you need a history lesson".

I want that t-shirt, Kat!! Where did you get it?

Also, Brittany(L)

Just wanted to share this picture
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/KatrinaR/black_confederates.jpg

Also, David Banner, a popular MS rapper and his "crew" wear the confederate flag proudly!

I want that t-shirt, Kat!! Where did you get it?

Also, Brittany(L)

I got while we were in Biloxi :D Next time we go through, I will pick you up one :D

:yahoo :hugehug
You rock!

I equate it to the swastika.

History or not, it is a history of hatred.

Teach in schools? OF COURSE

wear it on a shirt, display it on a truck? I don't think so.

I find it offensive and immature

but hey, just my liberal opinion

I equate it to the swastika.

History or not, it is a history of hatred.

Teach in schools? OF COURSE

wear it on a shirt, display it on a truck? I don't think so.

I find it offensive and immature

but hey, just my liberal opinion

...and then you log off before we can respond.

Do some research, then debate.

I feel like I say that at least twice in every thread. :banghead

...and then you log off before we can respond.

Do some research, then debate.

I feel like I say that at least twice in every thread. :banghead

I agree with you Loretta! Haha leave it to someone to make a bold statement then log off before anyone can debate it! lol!

I agree with you Loretta! Haha leave it to someone to make a bold statement then log off before anyone can debate it! lol!

Bold is awesome! Everyone should be so confident when speaking their beliefs!!

It's just silly to debate something you don't understand, and no one who has researched this topic should make such a broad, offensive generalization.

Just wanted to share this picture
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/KatrinaR/black_confederates.jpg

Also, David Banner, a popular MS rapper and his "crew" wear the confederate flag proudly!

David Banner stated on 106 and park tv show that he was changing the flag like the changed they (black folks i guess) word..N*gger and kept saying the South shall rise again...after hurricane katrina......

I just never heard the positive but i dont get offended by it I just walk with my head up whenever I pass one...so people can wear it how they like...but i wont. :)

I was always taught that it was a battle flag plain and simple

The best-known of all Confederate flags—the battle flag—is often erroneously confused with the national flag of the Confederacy. The battle flag features the cross of St. Andrew (the apostle was martyred by being crucified on an X-shaped cross), and is commonly called the "Southern Cross." A large degree of the Southern population was of Scottish and Scotch-Irish ancestry, and thus familiar with St. Andrew, the patron saint of Scotland. The stars represented the eleven states actually in the Confederacy, plus Kentucky and Missouri. This flag is the flap popularly associated with Robert E. Lee, and is the flag under which he fought.


The Army of Northern Virginia was the first to design a flag with the cross of St. Andrew, and Gen. P. G. T. Beauregard proposed adopting a version of it as the standard battle flag of the Confederate army. The Harper's Weekly Image above shows Beauregard's Arkansas troops serving under the "Stars and Bars" flag in 1861. The Army of Northern Virginia can be seen serving under the "Southern Cross" in 1862. One of its virtues was that, unlike the Stars and Bars, the Southern Cross was next to impossible to confuse with the Stars and Stripes in battle. The Confederate battle flag eventually developed wide acceptance 0throughout the Confederacy, but it was by no means the only battle flag.




Original "Southern Cross" Battle Flag from the Museum of the Confederacy
It should also be pointed out that there was no uniform Southern Cross flag—throughout the South slightly different versions of the original design were used by different regiments. Even their shape varied: some were square, the traditional shape of battle flags; others were rectangular. Because the South did not have the industrial resources of the North, the creation of flags was handled by a variety of cottage industries throughout the Confederacy, which contributed to the variations.



Sad to say that there are people out there who have used it to stand for one thing and one thing only....not what it was originally meant for

um, when did I log off?

and honestly, Loretta. I understand both sides of the debate. I however thing it is tacky and rude to display a flag that represents a "nation" that HATED an entire race of people.

I personally want nothing to do with the flag of a nation built on intolerance and hate. I disagree with the views of the civil war south and quite frankly think their flag is just as bad as that of the nazis.

It's a historic flag. If someone displayed the 13 star flag, would that be offensive? Slavery was prevalent then, too...

It's a big part of half of the country's history. Displaying it does not make someone a racist.

Are there racists who DO display it? Sure...there are also racists who preach in churches, teach in schools, and display current american flags, too...

So it boils down to not judging a book by it's cover, and respecting the local history of wherever you are.

Just my take! :goodvibes

Thats exactly what I was thinking. You are so good at this!

Your little heart says "off". So you were/are off or invisible, according to the site. Just observing!:)

I equate it to the swastika.

History or not, it is a history of hatred.

Teach in schools? OF COURSE

wear it on a shirt, display it on a truck? I don't think so.

I find it offensive and immature

but hey, just my liberal opinion

i opened this up so you are certainly entitled to voice your opinion on the matter. but to say this is your liberal opinion....

i equate liberal with open minded, meaning being open to new ideas and other's viewpoints. so with that i am educating myself through this thread (as a start) and that is my liberal take....

so far what i'm gathering is that it is very demographic. for the most part, people who display them are displaying out of pride in their history/heritage mostly in the south. however, there are some parts of the country where it is interpreted as hateful because people in those areas are taught to believe it is unacceptable. and knowing this, people in those areas display them with the understanding that it will be offensive.

please correct me if i'm wrong. :dunno but that is my inconclusive conclusion :lol

and honestly, Loretta. I understand both sides of the debate. I however thing it is tacky and rude to display a flag that represents a "nation" that HATED an entire race of people.

I personally want nothing to do with the flag of a nation built on intolerance and hate. I disagree with the views of the civil war south and quite frankly think their flag is just as bad as that of the nazis.

The entire South did not hate. There is no way on earth to prove that statement, and more ways to prove it untrue(such as the documented purposeful buying and freeing of slaves, etc).

To generalize a whole section of the country based on what the lawmakers were doing at the time...is like saying every last american agrees with Bush right now.

It's uneducated and presumptious.

I totally agree with ya'll.
And actually while I was in Mississippi I saw MANY MAAAAANY black people wearing and "sporting" the Dixie flag.

Coming from CA I thought it meant nothing but hate and racism. My dad and his family are from Arkansas and they tried to teach me other wise, but I wouldnt listen. Then we moved to the south, and let me tell you my thinking really hurt alot of peoples feelings. I had many stories told to me and now I think completely different. And I wear it proudly. I have flip flops with the Dixie flag on them and even a t shirt that says "If this flag offends you, you need a history lesson".

If that is true, that is wonderful, I have yet to see that here in AL though. My first experience with the confederate was not a good one. I had just moved down South (to AL) and I moved into an apartment with a white girl who was born and raised here, and a black girl from D.C. It was very obvious that the white girl did not like the black girl on the SOLE ground that she was black. She even went to the extent of buying me a t-shirt from Dixie Outfitters for Christmas. It was a blue t-shirt with a rebel flag on the front and back. On top of the flag, on the back of the shirt were black slaves picking cotton in a field. The front of the shirt said "I love the South." The shirt made me physically ill. The girl who gave the shirt to me found it absolutely hilarious, and had the same shirt herself, which she would even wear around the house. It made me feel horrible for our other room mate, who actually was pretty damn cool, and who I really liked hanging out with.
So THAT is my first experience of the confederate fag. Oh yes, and this same girl also had a confederate flag in her window and on her truck.

Your little heart says "off". So you were/are off or invisible, according to the site. Just observing!:)

I am invisible... so don't just assume I signed off after posting :wink

The entire South did not hate, first off.

To generalize a whole section of the country based on what the lawmakers were doing at the time...is like saying every last american agrees with Bush right now.

It's uneducated and presumptious.

I am saying, the flag represents the ideas that were being fought for under that flag. THose ideas include SLAVERY.

I live in the southern part of a divided state, the state that supplied the uniforms for both sides. I understand why some people display it, but I dont think anyone should have a flag that represents a group that wanted to keep slaves.

You can talk til you are blue in the face, you think my opinion is that of the un-researched and intolerant. I think yours is, we are never going to agree on this. To ME that represents racism, and quite frankly, I find it horrible.

Anyone can misuse a symbol or flag, for purposes other than the intended. It happens constantly. That does not make the symbol/flag inherently "bad".

That only makes the person doing it "bad".

I am invisible... so don't just assume I signed off after posting :wink



I am saying, the flag represents the ideas that were being fought for under that flag. THose ideas include SLAVERY.

I live in the southern part of a divided state, the state that supplied the uniforms for both sides. I understand why some people display it, but I dont think anyone should have a flag that represents a group that wanted to keep slaves.

You can talk til you are blue in the face, you think my opinion is that of the un-researched and intolerant. I think yours is, we are never going to agree on this. To ME that represents racism, and quite frankly, I find it horrible.

You're picking one thing out of years and years of history. Saying one point of history makes an entire symbol invalid save for that point...well, what else does that apply to? Or does that theory only apply to this particular topic?

If that makes sense...well, I hope we never face off in debate again, I'll be :banghead

hm. this is an interesting topic! i was raised in kansas, which is definitely not a "southern" state, and we were always, ALWAYS taught that it was a symbol of racism and hatred. and whenever i saw it, that is exactly what the people displaying it meant it to mean. racism. i really never knew it could mean anything else. after i left for college though, i started noticing it more and more...and i don't have much of an opinion at this point. i don't assume it to equate to racism anymore (unless i'm in my hometown but that's because i personally know the people displaying it, it's not just making a snap judgment). i don't really think about it really, as anything except a symbol of the south and rebels and all that :shrug

You're picking one thing out of years and years of history. A flag that represents germany does not represent Nazi's, because at one point there were Naze's there, does it? This is a very odd angle to argue, from your perspective.

If that makes sense...well, I hope we never face off in debate again, I'll be :banghead

the nazis have history.. is the swastika something you want on a shirt as well?

and honestly, Loretta. I understand both sides of the debate. I however thing it is tacky and rude to display a flag that represents a "nation" that HATED an entire race of people.

I personally want nothing to do with the flag of a nation built on intolerance and hate. I disagree with the views of the civil war south and quite frankly think their flag is just as bad as that of the nazis.


By no means did the ENTIRE south HATE an entire race of people. It was the fact that the North wanted them to change a lifestyle, even if that lifestyle was slavery, that they had for years. Granted it was the wrong lifestyle, hated isn't the proper word. Hitler hated an entire race, and equating Nazis to the South is ignorant. Southerners did not set out to murder millions of people.

I am not a big fan of the flag, never have been. I do associate it with hatred, but it is only what people have made it into to. It is a part of the Southern history that shouldn't be the most prideful era.

hm. this is an interesting topic! i was raised in kansas, which is definitely not a "southern" state, and we were always, ALWAYS taught that it was a symbol of racism and hatred. and whenever i saw it, that is exactly what the people displaying it meant it to mean. racism. i really never knew it could mean anything else. after i left for college though, i started noticing it more and more...and i don't have much of an opinion at this point. i don't assume it to equate to racism anymore (unless i'm in my hometown but that's because i personally know the people displaying it, it's not just making a snap judgment). i don't really think about it really, as anything except a symbol of the south and rebels and all that :shrug


:yes

the nazis have history.. is the swastika something you want on a shirt as well?

Where on earth did I say anything about the swastika?

My point is-taking a symbol or flag that represents DECADES of history and saying it stands for ONE thing is ridiculous.

I don't care if you hate the flag with all your heart, I'm not defending it right now. I'm saying that your reasoning for why you do makes no sense.

Maybe the south did not set out to kill a bunch of people. But there were lynchings and deaths as a result of the lifestyle. The exploitation of a race of people is WRONG.

Honestly, I do find the nazi thinking and the thinking of the southern slave owners to be similar. It is putting one race above another which is something I do not agree with.

I don't understand why it is not okay for me to think the flag is a symbol of white supremacy.

Maybe the south did not set out to kill a bunch of people. But there were lynchings and deaths as a result of the lifestyle. The exploitation of a race of people is WRONG.

Honestly, I do find the nazi thinking and the thinking of the southern slave owners to be similar. It is putting one race above another which is something I do not agree with.

I don't understand why it is not okay for me to think the flag is a symbol of white supremacy.

Because it isn't, and never was. It was a battle flag representing the southern united states and their ENTIRE lifestyle and beliefs. Slavery was a part of it but so were many other things.

You would be hard pressed to find a country with a perfectly angelic history, and their flags do not all automatically become symbols of thier past transgressions.

It's an inanimate object, what you make it. If YOU want to make it a symbol of hate for your personal use, so be it. Same goes for those who DO make it their personal hate symbol.

The fact stands, though, that it's just a flag. It has connotations that mean more good than bad...slavery is but one point in millions... Just as our current flag does not stand for all the crap going on right now, neither does that one.

If that is true, that is wonderful, I have yet to see that here in AL though. My first experience with the confederate was not a good one. I had just moved down South (to AL) and I moved into an apartment with a white girl who was born and raised here, and a black girl from D.C. It was very obvious that the white girl did not like the black girl on the SOLE ground that she was black. She even went to the extent of buying me a t-shirt from Dixie Outfitters for Christmas. It was a blue t-shirt with a rebel flag on the front and back. On top of the flag, on the back of the shirt were black slaves picking cotton in a field. The front of the shirt said "I love the South." The shirt made me physically ill. The girl who gave the shirt to me found it absolutely hilarious, and had the same shirt herself, which she would even wear around the house. It made me feel horrible for our other room mate, who actually was pretty damn cool, and who I really liked hanging out with.
So THAT is my first experience of the confederate fag. Oh yes, and this same girl also had a confederate flag in her window and on her truck.


The thing though is that your experience is more of ignorance on the racist girls part rather than with the flag. She was "using" the flag for her own horrible means as many before her have.
Sorry you had an experience like that

The thing though is that your experience is more of ignorance on the racist girls part rather than with the flag. She was "using" the flag for her own horrible means as many before her have.
Sorry you had an experience like that

ITA. :hugs

i opened this up so you are certainly entitled to voice your opinion on the matter. but to say this is your liberal opinion....

i equate liberal with open minded, meaning being open to new ideas and other's viewpoints. so with that i am educating myself through this thread (as a start) and that is my liberal take....

so far what i'm gathering is that it is very demographic. for the most part, people who display them are displaying out of pride in their history/heritage mostly in the south. however, there are some parts of the country where it is interpreted as hateful because people in those areas are taught to believe it is unacceptable. and knowing this, people in those areas display them with the understanding that it will be offensive.

please correct me if i'm wrong. :dunno but that is my inconclusive conclusion :lol

I think you got it...:)

like i said I never seen it as anything good...but some do thats why i'm not offended.....I'm not gonna run up to every person and say do you mean this like you hate or you're proud...:P

I know in high school we wore the shirt for spirit week saying that a flag wont define your hate but your actions and that was a good thing that we did that because it got in the local paper....but that was the first and last time i wore it. :grin:

I think some people wear it trying to state what we were saying back in spirit week but I dont think half know the full history...just my opinion

I dont want to offend anyone at all which is usually why i dont respond to this kinda thing but im in why not mood tonight :hehe
We have the flag everywhere right along w/ our welcome to america now speak english or leave signs :giggle Its how my dh and i were both brought up! We want our kids to learn all they can about that time and what that flag means right along w/ the american flag. I dont see anything wrong with it. We think the hole rasisum thing has got out of hand:dunno look at how the native americans were treated. You dont see them acting out the way some other races do. They are some of the proudest people i have ever met in my life :) (makes me proud to have that part of culture in our lives) But to each their own i guess.

We have an african american friend and out of respect to him and his kids we dont wear our shirts when we go to their house and if they come over we take down the flags but if they catch us off guard they are ok w/ it.

You see the flags everywhere in my hometown area and if you know where to look you will still see some signs that no one ever took down:creep (i'm not going to say exactly what they say but its something about the sun setting) We had the first black students in our school when i was in highschool. the sisters were both really nice and got along w/ everyone but they just didnt last long in our schools.

:arg There are still alot of close minded people out there but for the most part everyone is starting to open their minds.:yes

Slaves weren't considered "people", they were property. At the time of the Emancipation Proclamation, there were slaves in the North, as well - Lincoln himself even "owned" some, as well as most other land owners. But the Northern slaves were generally non-agricultural help: gardners, cooks, etc. In the South, slaves were the ONLY means available to farm land, run ranches, etc. Losing slaves, the only method KNOWN to people at that time to do work, would have shattered the south's economy, which would have eventually created an epidemic of starvation. It's not that the South "hated" slaves, it's that they were merely a tool used to complete a task. They didn't go to war for hate, they went to war to preserve their livelihood.

On a similar note, Malcolm X also strongly advocated hate crimes, yet his "X" is worn today with pride and is accepted as a revolutionary leader for equality.

ALWAYS taught that it was a symbol of racism and hatred. and whenever i saw it, that is exactly what the people displaying it meant it to mean. racism.

i don't really think about it really, as anything except a symbol of the south and rebels and all that :shrug

Exactly :yes.............the symbol was taken out of context by certain people to us it in their quest for racism, and yes when they wear it that is what they mean it for......but they also do not understand what the flag was ever meant for in the first place.

To the second part...again, hit the nail on the head.

I however thing it is tacky and rude to display a flag that represents a "nation" that HATED an entire race of people.


Really? My greats in my family fought in the civil war... wanna know how many slaves they owned? none, not one. They did not hate an entire race of people and that's a stereotype that is just flat out wrong. It was about taxes, money, everything always boils down to money. My ancestors picked cotton, hell both my grammas picked it and so did my dad. I think the fact that stated what you did shows that you really do need to do more research before you make blanket statements like that. :no

Slaves weren't considered "people", they were property. At the time of the Emancipation Proclamation, there were slaves in the North, as well - Lincoln himself even "owned" some, as well as most other land owners. But the Northern slaves were generally non-agricultural help: gardners, cooks, etc. In the South, slaves were the ONLY means available to farm land, run ranches, etc. Losing slaves, the only method KNOWN to people at that time to do work, would have shattered the south's economy, which would have eventually created an epidemic of starvation. It's not that the South "hated" slaves, it's that they were merely a tool used to complete a task. They didn't go to war for hate, they went to war to preserve their livelihood.

On a similar note, Malcolm X also strongly advocated hate crimes, yet his "X" is worn today with pride and is accepted as a revolutionary leader for equality.

Thank you for saying what my "it's been too long since history class" brain left out. You rock, yet again. :five

Slaves weren't considered "people", they were property. At the time of the Emancipation Proclamation, there were slaves in the North, as well - Lincoln himself even "owned" some, as well as most other land owners. But the Northern slaves were generally non-agricultural help: gardners, cooks, etc. In the South, slaves were the ONLY means available to farm land, run ranches, etc. Losing slaves, the only method KNOWN to people at that time to do work, would have shattered the south's economy, which would have eventually created an epidemic of starvation. It's not that the South "hated" slaves, it's that they were merely a tool used to complete a task. They didn't go to war for hate, they went to war to preserve their livelihood.

On a similar note, Malcolm X also strongly advocated hate crimes, yet his "X" is worn today with pride and is accepted as a revolutionary leader for equality.

I need you at my side daily to articulate for me... :yourock

Slaves weren't considered "people", they were property. At the time of the Emancipation Proclamation, there were slaves in the North, as well - Lincoln himself even "owned" some, as well as most other land owners. But the Northern slaves were generally non-agricultural help: gardners, cooks, etc. In the South, slaves were the ONLY means available to farm land, run ranches, etc. Losing slaves, the only method KNOWN to people at that time to do work, would have shattered the south's economy, which would have eventually created an epidemic of starvation. It's not that the South "hated" slaves, it's that they were merely a tool used to complete a task. They didn't go to war for hate, they went to war to preserve their livelihood.

On a similar note, Malcolm X also strongly advocated hate crimes, yet his "X" is worn today with pride and is accepted as a revolutionary leader for equality.

Oh Mr. Hatetank....:grin:

Speaking on that X....we werent allowed to wear that either....that was a symbol of representing hate as well...my momma always said he's no better than the ones saying white this and white that....he just saying black this and black that. Yea we were a Martin luther King Jr. family. :)

:five to your mama :yes

:five to your mama :yes

ITA:yes:D

:five to your mama :yes

yea she's momma rosa....the queen of telling it like it is....if she knew how to turn on her 1000.00 computer she would be debating now on this subject...lol

Slavery is part of our history. The flag has not only stood for slavery but also for farming, southern lifestyle, tobacco, shipping. While the north was factories the south was farmers. Many people who did not agree with slavery fought for the south because they were fighting for separation from the North, if for no other reason for their way of life.

While I do not like that some people do fly the flag for racist reasons, for the most part I see it as part of our history. If someone wants to fly it for racist reasons that is their problem and their loss.

Im from the Mississippi Gulf Coast. I was born and raised there so I feel like I can share my 2cents here. to me it IS just part of our heritage.. and it is what it is. Im gone tell you what, we voted on our flag.. the Mississippi flag has part of the confedrate flag in it and it was voted by whites and blacks alike to keep it flyin. Thats because the black folks that were born and raised in the south understand the heritage thing.. it is a part of thier history too. Its the "transplants" that have a problem with it, but I can see that other places just didnt bother to really teach the history of it. I cant do nothing about what my ancestors did or didnt do.. but I am proud to be from the south and thats also another thing the flag does represent. its kind of like the texas flag... near about everybody I know from Texas has the Texas flag flyin high somewhere at thier house! LOL. I do have a flag, and I have a bunch of dixie outfitter shirts. I dont have any with slaves. I will say this though my parents are white and my mother had to pick cotton when she was little and my granny had to pick everything and cotton when she was growing up.

I'm from new jersey so i got really surprised when i saw it displayed so often in the south but it all depends on how the people are displayig it because for some it doesn't mean anything bad, but "others" only use it to insult and piss other people off...that i can't stand

I happen to think the Dixie flag could quite possibly be one of the stronger symbols of PRIDE in our country among other things. It represents a time of family, tradition, and hope that as a "nation" the confederacy would stay strong.

After the slaves were freed a lot of them did stay behind at the plantations they were "owned" by and become share croppers. They did so BY CHOICE... apparently it wasn't so bad. I'm not going to say that it was all peaches and candy because it wasn't and there were and still are HORRIBLE people that choose to keep that hatred alive, but the Dixie flag DOES NOT solely represent the dark time of slavery in our country.

Rod put it very well. Slavery was both North and South.

Money, politics, and power was what the civil war was about... slavery was an additional thing added into the mix, but became the forefront by people putting it there.

Two very different lifestyles and way of life were the underlying demise to the North and South and the eventual Civil War. I find it sad that we still let these things that people fought and died for affect our lives so much.... we are still fighting a fight that will probably never be completed... that saddens me. I would hope that as a nation united we could get past these differences and respect the Dixie flag for those who fought and died, and not for the negative connotation that so many have given it.
Just my .02 cents though! :wink

Just throwing this out there. The swastika was around long before Hitler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Though once commonly used all over much of the world without stigma, over time the symbol has become a controversial motif in the Western world in particular

Im from the Mississippi Gulf Coast. I was born and raised there so I feel like I can share my 2cents here. to me it IS just part of our heritage.. and it is what it is. Im gone tell you what, we voted on our flag.. the Mississippi flag has part of the confedrate flag in it and it was voted by whites and blacks alike to keep it flyin. Thats because the black folks that were born and raised in the south understand the heritage thing.. it is a part of thier history too. Its the "transplants" that have a problem with it, but I can see that other places just didnt bother to really teach the history of it. I cant do nothing about what my ancestors did or didnt do.. but I am proud to be from the south and thats also another thing the flag does represent. its kind of like the texas flag... near about everybody I know from Texas has the Texas flag flyin high somewhere at thier house! LOL. I do have a flag, and I have a bunch of dixie outfitter shirts. I dont have any with slaves. I will say this though my parents are white and my mother had to pick cotton when she was little and my granny had to pick everything and cotton when she was growing up.

I don't think you really have the authority to speak for the whole of "black people" in general. Now if you can back that statement up with a fact, I would love to see it.

I don't think you really have the authority to speak for the whole of "black people" in general. Now if you can back that statement up with a fact, I would love to see it.

True that making a blanket statement is not the best way to get a point across... I do see the point that she is trying to make. Most southerners that I know and that I've met personally don't think the South needs "fixing" for the most part. As most locals see it, the majority of people who stand on their heads for change are people who do not/have not live here. :dunno

Our cross town rivals in Midland were the Robert E. Lee Rebels and had General Lee and the Confederate Flag as thier mascot and school flag. I, and the majority of the city, never saw it as a symbol of racism, just a symbol of history for the area. Not to mention the Cival War wasn't "just" about slavery....there were many issues..i.e. the rights of states and secession and strengthening federal government.

Because it isn't, and never was. It was a battle flag representing the southern united states and their ENTIRE lifestyle and beliefs. Slavery was a part of it but so were many other things.

You would be hard pressed to find a country with a perfectly angelic history, and their flags do not all automatically become symbols of thier past transgressions.

It's an inanimate object, what you make it. If YOU want to make it a symbol of hate for your personal use, so be it. Same goes for those who DO make it their personal hate symbol.

The fact stands, though, that it's just a flag. It has connotations that mean more good than bad...slavery is but one point in millions... Just as our current flag does not stand for all the crap going on right now, neither does that one.


:roof:roof:thumbsup:thumbsup

Our cross town rivals in Midland were the Robert E. Lee Rebels and had General Lee and the Confederate Flag as thier mascot and school flag. I, and the majority of the city, never saw it as a symbol of racism, just a symbol of history for the area. Not to mention the Cival War wasn't "just" about slavery....there were many issues..i.e. the rights of states and secession and strengthening federal government.

Ole' Miss (one of Mississippi's largest universities) has this mascot and are called the rebels:

http://logo.szuper.info.hu/pic/logo/o/ole_miss_rebels_79887.jpg

It has absolutely nothing to do with racism and this "cartoon" is associated directly with the Rebel Flag. The school that I mentioned earlier here locally where my MIL teaches has this same mascot.

I'm from NC so I grew up with it around.. I'm just kinda use to it and it doesn't really bother me

I equate it to the swastika.

History or not, it is a history of hatred.

Teach in schools? OF COURSE

wear it on a shirt, display it on a truck? I don't think so.

I find it offensive and immature

but hey, just my liberal opinion

Well, I can tell you straight up that you are just as ignorant as the racists with a statement like that! I am from Texas and proud of it. The flag for the South represents independance. Did you know only a tiny percentage of Southerners actually owned slaves??? No, I didn't think so because your "liberal views" don't allow that side of the story to told. Did you know that many slaves fought for the south of their own free will?? Didn't freaking think so. However, racism was NATIONAL problem even after the Civil war.
Educate yourself.

I vividly recall a woman on this board who's grandfather served in the Nazi German military during WWII, and she had wanted to get a swastika tattoo to show her family heritage. Most folks, myself included, immediately pointed out that she would be considered a racist if she did that.. then I actually thought about it. Patriotism isn't an American only trait - the enemies of America have just as much patriotism as we do. The fact that most Americans would view this woman as a racist simply for a heritage emblem says a lot about our culture and our follies as humans.

I vividly recall a woman on this board who's grandfather served in the Nazi German military during WWII, and she had wanted to get a swastika tattoo to show her family heritage. Most folks, myself included, immediately pointed out that she would be considered a racist if she did that.. then I actually thought about it. Patriotism isn't an American only trait - the enemies of America have just as much patriotism as we do. The fact that most Americans would view this woman as a racist simply for a heritage emblem says a lot about our culture and our follies as humans.

ITA. Thanks also, Theresa, for the link on the swastika. I know I've always thought it would be cool to reclaim it, but...yeah, I don't think I'm cool enough to get away with that. :rofl

I think it means whatever you want it to mean. If you see it as a racist thing then no matter what anyone says it will always be a racist thing. Its just a symbol that will mean different things to different people.

I vividly recall a woman on this board who's grandfather served in the Nazi German military during WWII, and she had wanted to get a swastika tattoo to show her family heritage. Most folks, myself included, immediately pointed out that she would be considered a racist if she did that.. then I actually thought about it. Patriotism isn't an American only trait - the enemies of America have just as much patriotism as we do. The fact that most Americans would view this woman as a racist simply for a heritage emblem says a lot about our culture and our follies as humans.

You're right. The swastika is an ancient symbol nd is seen here in Korea quite a bit and it has nothing to do with racism.

Because it isn't, and never was. It was a battle flag representing the southern united states and their ENTIRE lifestyle and beliefs. Slavery was a part of it but so were many other things.

You would be hard pressed to find a country with a perfectly angelic history, and their flags do not all automatically become symbols of thier past transgressions.

It's an inanimate object, what you make it. If YOU want to make it a symbol of hate for your personal use, so be it. Same goes for those who DO make it their personal hate symbol.

The fact stands, though, that it's just a flag. It has connotations that mean more good than bad...slavery is but one point in millions... Just as our current flag does not stand for all the crap going on right now, neither does that one.


:tu:tu:tu :yes

i am so glad someone mentioned how the swastika is NOT a BAD symbol save for when people assume it was solely HITLERS symbol... i personally think it is one of the most beautiful symbols out there.

as far as the confederate flag... i used to have a problem with it.. until i realized... the civil war did NOT start on the basis of SLAVERY... in fact.. slavery wasnt added to the issues for some time.

it is thanks to the terrible history program in general public schools that teaches us only that particular view point. there are all sorts of incorrect, exaggerated and/or left out information from general education. for instance, Christopher Columbus neither discovered america first NOR discovered the earth was round. both things i was taught in fourth grade.
and paul revere, although ran around telling everyone 'the british are coming!' there was a different guy who traveled a whole hell of a lot further telling everyone the same thing. i dont remember his name.. but its probably because paul revere got the credit because he had a BETTER and more memorable name. seriously. paul revere got ALL the credit just because his name was BETTER.

thats history for ya.

dont let a symbol that for a brief time said 'hate' stay a hate symbol. the confederate flag is about a group of people wanting to work together for what they believed. for wanting to fight for their RIGHTS as americans and to continue with their way of life. eventually slavery was added into that, and YES racism was and still is VERY prevelant... but the confederate flag was NOT created with slavery OR racism in mind.

it is to southerners what the rainbow flag is to the LGBTPQQA community. it is what the american flag is to all of us living the american military life. it is what any symbol bringing any group of people together for a common goal, experience, or way of life is.
While i am whole heartedly against racism, i cannot discriminate against a flag that is NOT used for racism in general.

just as i fully and completely support the swastika because of all the good things it stands for.

i am so glad someone mentioned how the swastika is NOT a BAD symbol save for when people assume it was solely HITLERS symbol... i personally think it is one of the most beautiful symbols out there.

as far as the confederate flag... i used to have a problem with it.. until i realized... the civil war did NOT start on the basis of SLAVERY... in fact.. slavery wasnt added to the issues for some time.

it is thanks to the terrible history program in general public schools that teaches us only that particular view point. there are all sorts of incorrect, exaggerated and/or left out information from general education. for instance, Christopher Columbus neither discovered america first NOR discovered the earth was round. both things i was taught in fourth grade.
and paul revere, although ran around telling everyone 'the british are coming!' there was a different guy who traveled a whole hell of a lot further telling everyone the same thing. i dont remember his name.. but its probably because paul revere got the credit because he had a BETTER and more memorable name. seriously. paul revere got ALL the credit just because his name was BETTER.

thats history for ya.

dont let a symbol that for a brief time said 'hate' stay a hate symbol. the confederate flag is about a group of people wanting to work together for what they believed. for wanting to fight for their RIGHTS as americans and to continue with their way of life. eventually slavery was added into that, and YES racism was and still is VERY prevelant... but the confederate flag was NOT created with slavery OR racism in mind.

it is to southerners what the rainbow flag is to the LGBTPQQA community. it is what the american flag is to all of us living the american military life. it is what any symbol bringing any group of people together for a common goal, experience, or way of life is.
While i am whole heartedly against racism, i cannot discriminate against a flag that is NOT used for racism in general.

just as i fully and completely support the swastika because of all the good things it stands for.


I (L) you. Can we please just take over the world now? :lol

I (L) you. Can we please just take over the world now? :lol

i am ALL for taking over the world!! and you know i (L) ya too!
and i feel special for being quoted... i gotta say it :D

I think everyone is simply wasting there time on this topic trying to dare I say "correct" each others right and/or wrongs. :hopeless In my OPINION no one will ever have the correct answer as to if the confederate flag is a symbol of hate or pride do to the simple fact that it is solely based on how YOU were raised and what YOU were taught. No one in the world is educated on everything. So to call someone ignorant for stating there opinion and views is simply well...ignorant. A member asked a question. She wanted to know "so my questions are: what were you brought up to think about the confederate flag & how do you feel when you see it displayed? is it ever offensive?" People answered, some said it didn't bother them, some said it was a symbol of hatred and slavery and others posted that is about history and their traditions. Now before I decided to reply to the poster(and her solely) MY views i did some "research" This is what i came up with The display of the Confederate flag remains a highly controversial and emotional thing, generally because of disagreement over the nature of its symbolism. Opponents of the Confederate flag see it as an overt symbol of racism, both for the history of racial slavery in the United States, and the establishment of Jim Crow laws by Southern states following the end of Reconstruction in late 1870s, enforcing racial segregation within state borders for nearly a century until the Civil Rights Movement. Others view the flag as a symbol of rebellion against the federal government of the United States. Many groups use the Southern Cross as one of the symbols associated with their organizations, including racist, separatist, or hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan, while others see it as an historical symbol representing pride in the Southern United States or a past era of southern sovereignty.
So to answer your (POSTER) question I was born and raised in the north and I was brought up to believe that the confederate flag had something to do with racism. That is how i always viewed it. People here(WHERE I LIVE) use it as a symbol of hate and racism. I can not change there views and that is just what I see with my own eyes. Now im sure if i was to go to the south I would see it in a completely different light. And yes it has been used offensively.:myop

No point in repeating myself :lol

My statements were about the flag itself, and why it was CREATED. Nothing else. People can use it however they want. :shrug

I think everyone is simply wasting there time on this topic trying to dare I say "correct" each others right and/or wrongs. :hopeless In my OPINION no one will ever have the correct answer as to if the confederate flag is a symbol of hate or pride do to the simple fact that it is solely based on how YOU were raised and what YOU were taught. No one in the world is educated on everything. So to call someone ignorant for stating there opinion and views is simply well...ignorant. A member asked a question. She wanted to know "so my questions are: what were you brought up to think about the confederate flag & how do you feel when you see it displayed? is it ever offensive?" People answered, some said it didn't bother them, some said it was a symbol of hatred and slavery and others posted that is about history and their traditions. Now before I decided to reply to the poster(and her solely) MY views i did some "research" This is what i came up with The display of the Confederate flag remains a highly controversial and emotional thing, generally because of disagreement over the nature of its symbolism. Opponents of the Confederate flag see it as an overt symbol of racism, both for the history of racial slavery in the United States, and the establishment of Jim Crow laws by Southern states following the end of Reconstruction in late 1870s, enforcing racial segregation within state borders for nearly a century until the Civil Rights Movement. Others view the flag as a symbol of rebellion against the federal government of the United States. Many groups use the Southern Cross as one of the symbols associated with their organizations, including racist, separatist, or hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan, while others see it as an historical symbol representing pride in the Southern United States or a past era of southern sovereignty.
So to answer your (POSTER) question I was born and raised in the north and I was brought up to believe that the confederate flag had something to do with racism. That is how i always viewed it. People here(WHERE I LIVE) use it as a symbol of hate and racism. I can not change there views and that is just what I see with my own eyes. Now im sure if i was to go to the south I would see it in a completely different light. And yes it has been used offensively.:myop


good post...i never got that you have to be "educated" to undersstand it...hell no I dont I go by what I saw everyday...thats my history. :grin:
But yea I agree completely with your opinion.

imo the holocaust is history too, but it still wouldnt be right to fly the nazi symbol why should we make the exception here?

i am editing to note that i do know that the swastika does not solely symbolize the whole holocaust however that symbol alone is used to show hatred.

I'm going to keep quoting old posts for those who don't read the thread from now on :rofl

The swastika had been around HUNDREDS of years before Hitler.

I think everyone is simply wasting there time on this topic trying to dare I say "correct" each others right and/or wrongs. :hopeless In my OPINION no one will ever have the correct answer as to if the confederate flag is a symbol of hate or pride do to the simple fact that it is solely based on how YOU were raised and what YOU were taught. No one in the world is educated on everything. So to call someone ignorant for stating there opinion and views is simply well...ignorant. A member asked a question. She wanted to know "so my questions are: what were you brought up to think about the confederate flag & how do you feel when you see it displayed? is it ever offensive?" People answered, some said it didn't bother them, some said it was a symbol of hatred and slavery and others posted that is about history and their traditions. Now before I decided to reply to the poster(and her solely) MY views i did some "research" This is what i came up with The display of the Confederate flag remains a highly controversial and emotional thing, generally because of disagreement over the nature of its symbolism. Opponents of the Confederate flag see it as an overt symbol of racism, both for the history of racial slavery in the United States, and the establishment of Jim Crow laws by Southern states following the end of Reconstruction in late 1870s, enforcing racial segregation within state borders for nearly a century until the Civil Rights Movement. Others view the flag as a symbol of rebellion against the federal government of the United States. Many groups use the Southern Cross as one of the symbols associated with their organizations, including racist, separatist, or hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan, while others see it as an historical symbol representing pride in the Southern United States or a past era of southern sovereignty.
So to answer your (POSTER) question I was born and raised in the north and I was brought up to believe that the confederate flag had something to do with racism. That is how i always viewed it. People here(WHERE I LIVE) use it as a symbol of hate and racism. I can not change there views and that is just what I see with my own eyes. Now im sure if i was to go to the south I would see it in a completely different light. And yes it has been used offensively.:myop

:yes Isn't THAT the truth!

It's a historic flag. If someone displayed the 13 star flag, would that be offensive? Slavery was prevalent then, too...

It's a big part of half of the country's history. Displaying it does not make someone a racist.

Are there racists who DO display it? Sure...there are also racists who preach in churches, teach in schools, and display current american flags, too...

So it boils down to not judging a book by it's cover, and respecting the local history of wherever you are.

Just my take! :goodvibes

:hail I completely agree with you Loretta!

imo the holocaust is history too, but it still wouldnt be right to fly the nazi symbol why should we make the exception here?

i am editing to note that i do know that the swastika does not solely symbolize the whole holocaust however that symbol alone is used to show hatred.

I use that symbol. and i most ASSUREDLY do not use it to symbolize HATE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates from the Neolithic period. An ancient symbol, it occurs in numerous indigenous Asian, European, African and Native American cultures; sometimes as a geometrical motif and sometimes as a religious symbol. It has long been widely used in major world religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism.

By the early 20th century, it was widely used worldwide and was regarded as a symbol of good luck and success.

The ubiquity of the swastika symbol is easily explained by its being a very simple symbol that will arise independently in any basket-weaving society. The swastika is a repeating design, created by the edges of the reeds in a square basket-weave. Other theories attempt to establish a connection via cultural diffusion or an explanation along the lines of Carl Jung's collective unconscious.
While the existence of the swastika symbol in the Americas may be explained by the basket-weave theory, its American presence weakens the cultural diffusion theory. While some have proposed that the swastika was transferred to North America by an early seafaring civilization on Eurasia, a separate but parallel development is considered the most likely explanation.

While the swastika was used by Hitler for a number of years as a symbol of HATE, that is such a BRIEF period in it's history. It makes me sad that just those few years took away all the rest of it's history. i mean, this is an ANCIENT symbol. EVERYONE has an ancestor somewhere WAAY back there who has used it.
its a symbol of good luck and success... such a wonderful thing for people to allow Hitler to take.

and its the same for the confederate flag. it was NOT created for HATE. It is only people who WANT it to stand for hate that keeps perpetuating that. Yes, the south was the dominant area of the country with RACISM but racism WAS in fact found in the North.

When you LET something stand for hate, you take away the beauty it could have otherwise. If you focus on just ONE piece of information, you miss all the other bits that tell a much more complex and interesting story.

i understand not liking the flag... as i already said previously, i didnt either. And i still feel uncomfortable around it when i dont know the circumstances of why whoever is flying it is flying it. but i refuse to let one part of southern history take away the complete meaning of the flag.

life is just too short to see the WORST in everything and to miss all the GOOD.

I use that symbol. and i most ASSUREDLY do not use it to symbolize HATE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika





While the swastika was used by Hitler for a number of years as a symbol of HATE, that is such a BRIEF period in it's history. It makes me sad that just those few years took away all the rest of it's history. i mean, this is an ANCIENT symbol. EVERYONE has an ancestor somewhere WAAY back there who has used it.
its a symbol of good luck and success... such a wonderful thing for people to allow Hitler to take.

and its the same for the confederate flag. it was NOT created for HATE. It is only people who WANT it to stand for hate that keeps perpetuating that. Yes, the south was the dominant area of the country with RACISM but racism WAS in fact found in the North.

When you LET something stand for hate, you take away the beauty it could have otherwise. If you focus on just ONE piece of information, you miss all the other bits that tell a much more complex and interesting story.

i understand not liking the flag... as i already said previously, i didnt either. And i still feel uncomfortable around it when i dont know the circumstances of why whoever is flying it is flying it. but i refuse to let one part of southern history take away the complete meaning of the flag.

life is just too short to see the WORST in everything and to miss all the GOOD.

i never said everyone uses it as hate, just that people use that particular symbol to support there hate. I come from a German family, and we choose not use it in respect for those it offends.

Like others said, the Civil War was about more than slavery, it was about expansion, and whether the newly admitted states would be slave states or free-the North wanted them to be free because that would allow them to have more political power-and the South wanted them to be slave states for the same reason. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't even free the slaves-just those in slave-holding states that were in rebellion-this was a last resort for Lincoln in the war and was not seen as a permanent change-he just wanted to destroy the Southern economy to force them to give up.

I find it interesting that everyone equates the South with slavery and racism, while the Northeast actually has the most hate groups (New England area). I'm taking a religion/ethics class and one of our lectures was taught by a man who was in the civil rights movement. He said that racism was and is still INCREDIBLY prevalent in the North, much more so than in the South, even during the CRM, it's just better disguised.

Now honestly I did always equate the Rebel flag with racism but it was based on ignorance-clearly, people have their own reasons for displaying the flag and I'm not going to judge people as being racist simply because they do so.

This is a controversial question....and totally depends on demographics (where you were raised, your family values, your persona ethics, etc)....I support our President and Administration and other citizens so if someone wants to use it. That is a personal decision. I don't find fault with someone that chooses to use it. If they operate in a capacity that I find dismaying while using it (maybe burning it or something wrong and disrespectful scenario) than no. I have a serious issue with that.

My bigger beef is not this flag, but rather foreigners that live in the US that do not speak fluent english. That is a rule on the citizenship test, they are suppose to pass to be a citizen!!

I agree about the more subtle racism is the north.

However, I think the people in the North when it comes down to it are more accepting. I am from New England I do not hate a single racial group. I also feel that if someone internalizes hate for a group it is not nearly as bad as blatant racism. Still bad, but not AS BAD.

I think in the north you see more discrimination based on ethinicity than race anyway.

I equate the confederate flag and the swastika both with hate. I think everyone gets to take what they wish out of a symbol. I do not like to see the confederate flag waving in someone's front yard, but I certainly won't go tear it down like some people might :wink

If I ever have children I will teach them that I see the confederate flag as a sign of blatant disrespect to a group of people. While it USED to represent much more than that, I feel that now, in many (if not most) parts of this nation it is used in today's society for hateful purposes.

Symbols CHANGE, the way that people feel about something affects what it means. You have to realise that what a symbol means to you may not mean that to the majority. I can guarantee you that in my neck of the woods it is to represent a heritage of hate and portray supremacy.

I do not tolerate supremacy from any group.

Another thing, simply becuase some black people carry a flag doesn't make it okay. When I hear Kanye say the N word in his songs I dont think "well kanye did it, I should too" my life would certainly be a mess if i did that.

Just throwing this out there. The swastika was around long before Hitler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Right and over time I feel the same thing has happened to the confederate flag. I know all of it's history and yet have a seriously hard time supporting something that causes hurt to others. There are some that do view it as such and are hurt by it......NOT because of it's history but because it has been used as a racist symbol! I know it's not always flown out of disrespect but often times it IS. I grew up in Georgia and anyone who tries to tell me otherwise IS uneducated! I've seen it for my self and I SADLY STILL know of it being used as a "slap in the face" to others:sigh

I also don't mind the civil war history of the flag. It the way the damn thing made a HUGE comeback conveniently around the time of the civil rights movement. Why? I have my opinion and it's the opinion of many others as well. I don't feel like debating with anyone on my own opinion, it won't change:grin:

I grew up in Kentucky(in the mountains, at that) and my opinions HAVE changed...

Experience can teach us what other methods cannot.

Always being aware and willing to learn is one of life's greatest gifts for those who will accept it. In general, not just with symbolism.

Slaves weren't considered "people", they were property. At the time of the Emancipation Proclamation, there were slaves in the North, as well - Lincoln himself even "owned" some, as well as most other land owners. But the Northern slaves were generally non-agricultural help: gardners, cooks, etc. In the South, slaves were the ONLY means available to farm land, run ranches, etc. Losing slaves, the only method KNOWN to people at that time to do work, would have shattered the south's economy, which would have eventually created an epidemic of starvation. It's not that the South "hated" slaves, it's that they were merely a tool used to complete a task. They didn't go to war for hate, they went to war to preserve their livelihood.

On a similar note, Malcolm X also strongly advocated hate crimes, yet his "X" is worn today with pride and is accepted as a revolutionary leader for equality.
Your getting into history while discussing the confederdate flag for historical purposes slaves were not considered "people", they were property. At the time of the Emancipation Proclamation. This is very true. I also recall from US Constitution class that slaves were not allowed to pray without a white male present and had to have a "note" of permission from their owner when traveling.

Your getting into history while discussing the confederdate flag for historical purposes slaves were not considered "people", they were property. At the time of the Emancipation Proclamation. This is very true. I also recall from US Constitution class that slaves were not allowed to pray without a white male present and had to have a "note" of permission from their owner when traveling.

He just left on deployment so he can't discuss this with you.

I do think he was trying to say that slavery was AWFUL but just as prevalent in the North.

Like others said, the Civil War was about more than slavery, it was about expansion, and whether the newly admitted states would be slave states or free-the North wanted them to be free because that would allow them to have more political power-and the South wanted them to be slave states for the same reason. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't even free the slaves-just those in slave-holding states that were in rebellion-this was a last resort for Lincoln in the war and was not seen as a permanent change-he just wanted to destroy the Southern economy to force them to give up.

I find it interesting that everyone equates the South with slavery and racism, while the Northeast actually has the most hate groups (New England area). Where are the FACTS on this? Or are you just guessing?


I'm taking a religion/ethics class and one of our lectures was taught by a man who was in the civil rights movement. He said that racism was and is still INCREDIBLY prevalent in the North, much more so than in the South, even during the CRM, it's just better disguised.
This is total bullshit. You can't just say, "Oh I am taking this class, and this guy said this..." It doesn't work that way, you need to back up something if you are going to state it as a fact. I can say I took a Sociology of Religion class and learned that there are more hate groups in the South, but that doesn't mean I actually know what the heck I am talking about! I have had professors state facts in class that were 10 years old and incorrect! Don't always believe what you hear in class, I have had to correct professors who have been teaching outdated material.

Now honestly I did always equate the Rebel flag with racism but it was based on ignorance-clearly, people have their own reasons for displaying the flag and I'm not going to judge people as being racist simply because they do so.

I don't think anyone is saying people who display the confederate flag are racist, but people ARE saying that is has been used as a sign of racism, and it still is by some people. No, not everyone, but we can't deny the fact that there are still some people who use it to be racist.

I have lived in the North for 22 years, I have lived in the South for almost 3. Before I moved here, I didn't know what the term "yankee" meant. There are also NUMEROUS racist terms that I can't even bring myself to post here because they disgust me so much, that I have learned by living here. Where I grew up, it didn't matter what damn color your skin was, what DID matter was what kind of food you sat down to eat at dinner. Italians tended to bond together, Irish tended to bond together...same thing with religious groups. Roman Catholics hung out together because we grew up in the same church! Same thing with the Baptists, they hung out together because their lives revolved around their youth group! That was just how it was. Black, white, orange, red, NO ONE cared....I honestly didn't even realize it was still an issue until I moved here. And I apologize if my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE offends anybody, but what can I say? This is what I have experienced, and I can't change it. But let me also say this....every time a black southerner has found out that I am a "yankee," they are very friendly to me. More so than some die hard southern white people. This I also experienced first hand working as a hairstylist when I first moved here. Talk about racism. I have experienced more "hate" from my own race than I have from others, living here in the South.

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I don't think anyone is saying people who display the confederate flag are racist, but people ARE saying that is has been used as a sign of racism, and it still is by some people. No, not everyone, but we can't deny the fact that there are still some people who use it to be racist.

I have lived in the North for 22 years, I have lived in the South for almost 3. Before I moved here, I didn't know what the term "yankee" meant. There are also NUMEROUS racist terms that I can't even bring myself to post here because they disgust me so much, that I have learned by living here. Where I grew up, it didn't matter what damn color your skin was, what DID matter was what kind of food you sat down to eat at dinner. Italians tended to bond together, Irish tended to bond together...same thing with religious groups. Roman Catholics hung out together because we grew up in the same church! Same thing with the Baptists, they hung out together because their lives revolved around their youth group! That was just how it was. Black, white, orange, red, NO ONE cared....I honestly didn't even realize it was still an issue until I moved here. And I apologize if my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE offends anybody, but what can I say? This is what I have experienced, and I can't change it. But let me also say this....every time a black southerner has found out that I am a "yankee," they are very friendly to me. More so than some die hard southern white people. This I also experienced first hand working as a hairstylist when I first moved here. Talk about racism. I have experienced more "hate" from my own race than I have from others, living here in the South.

Good points and :hugs for you, I'm sorry you have had people treat you that way! :sadeyes

Good points and :hugs for you, I'm sorry you have had people treat you that way! :sadeyes

Thank you Loretta. I actually had someone (a white person) jump up out of my chair when he heard me talk, and announce, "no yankee is cutting my hair."
But, now that I have been here a few years, I have just gotten used to the ignorance. It still bothers me, but I have realized that ignorance does come from lack of education. And those people that still think we are in a war of "North versus the South" really just can't help themselves, and I end up feeling very sorry for them.
Anyways.....just had to get that off my chest.....
And I DO have to say that I have met some amazing women here...in AL, and I think a few really good people, can outweigh a bunch of crummy ones :grphug

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I don't think anyone is saying people who display the confederate flag are racist, but people ARE saying that is has been used as a sign of racism, and it still is by some people. No, not everyone, but we can't deny the fact that there are still some people who use it to be racist.

I have lived in the North for 22 years, I have lived in the South for almost 3. Before I moved here, I didn't know what the term "yankee" meant. There are also NUMEROUS racist terms that I can't even bring myself to post here because they disgust me so much, that I have learned by living here. Where I grew up, it didn't matter what damn color your skin was, what DID matter was what kind of food you sat down to eat at dinner. Italians tended to bond together, Irish tended to bond together...same thing with religious groups. Roman Catholics hung out together because we grew up in the same church! Same thing with the Baptists, they hung out together because their lives revolved around their youth group! That was just how it was. Black, white, orange, red, NO ONE cared....I honestly didn't even realize it was still an issue until I moved here. And I apologize if my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE offends anybody, but what can I say? This is what I have experienced, and I can't change it. But let me also say this....every time a black southerner has found out that I am a "yankee," they are very friendly to me. More so than some die hard southern white people. This I also experienced first hand working as a hairstylist when I first moved here. Talk about racism. I have experienced more "hate" from my own race than I have from others, living here in the South.

I'm sorry if what I said offended you. If you'd like, I can try and get that information from my professor tomorrow. I say try because it's the last class before finals and I'm not sure how much time he'll have to get the information to me.

And I'm not saying that everyone in the Northeast is a bigot, I know few people from that area. I'm also not sure the hate groups there are necessarily anti-black. It was just an offhanded comment and I shouldn't have brought it up. I guess I'm just sensitive-get a little irritated with all this talk about southern racism-I don't like the assumption that because I'm white, and from Texas, that I'm automatically a racist. I've had people tell me outright the opinions they formed about me when they first met me because of where I'm from, and now, when people tell me I don't strike them like a Southerner because of my particular views, I take it as a compliment. Honestly, I learned more about just how racist we Texans are by people who have never been there. (Although I suppose my comment about the NE could be construed that way as well.)

Racism is everywhere.

I think everyone is simply wasting there time on this topic trying to dare I say "correct" each others right and/or wrongs. :hopeless In my OPINION no one will ever have the correct answer as to if the confederate flag is a symbol of hate or pride do to the simple fact that it is solely based on how YOU were raised and what YOU were taught. No one in the world is educated on everything. So to call someone ignorant for stating there opinion and views is simply well...ignorant. A member asked a question. She wanted to know "so my questions are: what were you brought up to think about the confederate flag & how do you feel when you see it displayed? is it ever offensive?" People answered, some said it didn't bother them, some said it was a symbol of hatred and slavery and others posted that is about history and their traditions. Now before I decided to reply to the poster(and her solely) MY views i did some "research" This is what i came up with The display of the Confederate flag remains a highly controversial and emotional thing, generally because of disagreement over the nature of its symbolism. Opponents of the Confederate flag see it as an overt symbol of racism, both for the history of racial slavery in the United States, and the establishment of Jim Crow laws by Southern states following the end of Reconstruction in late 1870s, enforcing racial segregation within state borders for nearly a century until the Civil Rights Movement. Others view the flag as a symbol of rebellion against the federal government of the United States. Many groups use the Southern Cross as one of the symbols associated with their organizations, including racist, separatist, or hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan, while others see it as an historical symbol representing pride in the Southern United States or a past era of southern sovereignty.
So to answer your (POSTER) question I was born and raised in the north and I was brought up to believe that the confederate flag had something to do with racism. That is how i always viewed it. People here(WHERE I LIVE) use it as a symbol of hate and racism. I can not change there views and that is just what I see with my own eyes. Now im sure if i was to go to the south I would see it in a completely different light. And yes it has been used offensively.:myop


I agree with you. I'm sure I might see it differently if I was from the South, but to me it's just stupid. I don't care what they are doing and it doesn't really offend me.. but when I see it, I just roll my eyes and think "you lost..."...
To me, it seems like a relic from a bad bygone era in the U.S. that outta be dropped. We are UNITED again, yay!

Like others said, the Civil War was about more than slavery, it was about expansion, and whether the newly admitted states would be slave states or free-the North wanted them to be free because that would allow them to have more political power-and the South wanted them to be slave states for the same reason. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't even free the slaves-just those in slave-holding states that were in rebellion-this was a last resort for Lincoln in the war and was not seen as a permanent change-he just wanted to destroy the Southern economy to force them to give up.

I find it interesting that everyone equates the South with slavery and racism, while the Northeast actually has the most hate groups (New England area). I'm taking a religion/ethics class and one of our lectures was taught by a man who was in the civil rights movement. He said that racism was and is still INCREDIBLY prevalent in the North, much more so than in the South, even during the CRM, it's just better disguised.

Now honestly I did always equate the Rebel flag with racism but it was based on ignorance-clearly, people have their own reasons for displaying the flag and I'm not going to judge people as being racist simply because they do so.


I really, honestly don't know how prevalent racism is in the south anymore.. but I do know that some parts of the North are pretty racist.
One thing I have noticed- when I lived in a bunch of different places these last 4 years-- is that the more diverse the city/town- the more tolerance. I found the outskirts of L.A. to be the most tolerant place I lived.. I remember I called back home to tell my best friend that I had new roommates and at some point I guess she found out they were asian.. and the next time I called her she said "how is it living with those orientals???"
I near about choked!! :wowsers lol. Can anyone remember the last time they heard the term orientals? It was actually kind of funny. She also assumed some things that weren't true. If people aren't exposed to it, they are sometimes racist without even knowing it....
I married a guy from Argentina and our new last name has "Gonzalez" in it.
My mom told me that her "grandfather would be rolling over in his grave if he knew." She said some other stuff that offended me.. but I can brush it off so long as I know where her thoughts are coming from. (He grandfather didnt want his family marrying anyone who wasnt slovak.)
What is irritating is when she purposely tries to irritate me by making racist comments.. cuz she knows I will get annoyed. Thats just rude, but she doesnt get that.

I'm going to keep quoting old posts for those who don't read the thread from now on :rofl

The swastika had been around HUNDREDS of years before Hitler.

Who cares? It's got a great history before Hitler, but all thats relevant now is what it stands for in recent memory. A lot of people don't even realize it used to mean something good.

Well, I can tell you straight up that you are just as ignorant as the racists with a statement like that! I am from Texas and proud of it. The flag for the South represents independance. Did you know only a tiny percentage of Southerners actually owned slaves??? No, I didn't think so because your "liberal views" don't allow that side of the story to told. Did you know that many slaves fought for the south of their own free will?? Didn't freaking think so. However, racism was NATIONAL problem even after the Civil war.
Educate yourself.

Nobody will like me for saying this, but I remember reading about how bad racial tensions were after the civil war... I read that many MANY of the white people were POOR and when black people were made free, they didn't have anything really at first and so it brought them up to the same level as those poor white people who didn't own land. And a lot of them did not like this AT ALL. To me, this display of the confederate flag (and all the crap that the KKK has publicly done)- is just a sad attempt on the part of these white people- to feel SUPERIOR again.
The white people lowest on the totem poll could always think of themselves as being at least better than the slaves. The civil war changed that for them and thats kind of how I tend to view that. Stupid white people trying to convince themselves that they are actually superior to someone else so that they can feel good about themselves.

I truly don't think anyone is trying to "correct" anyone else's opinion. They are ALL just opinions and ALL subjective. It is what you make it. If you feel it is racist then to YOU it will always be that way. If you feel it is not then, well, ya know. I think (and this is my opinion here) that viewing it as racist just perpetuates the stereotypes and fuels the hate. Why give an inanimate object that much power for hate? Take away the personal views on either side and it is JUST a flag. Allowing it be represent hate is giving those who use it in such way more power then they should have IMO. I equate it to Black Panthers, just because some people used to the panther to symbolize racial power, one over another, doesn't mean that I'm going to allow myself to think of racism every time I see a panther. It's a beautiful animal and should not always be associated with hate and doing so would give power to those who I feel shouldn't have it over me... so I don't give them that power. I feel the same toward the Rebel Flag. But then again, this is just MY opinion.

Might be cause im from the San Francisco Bay Area, but why care so much. Each person has as much right as the next person be belive in that they want and display what they want, aslong as it is not obseane. I feel that it is part of our history that never really gets noticed. It is one of thoes PC topics that we just chose not to talk about due to what it meant at the time. but for me fly that flag if you want to and let it mean what ever you want it to mean. just cause someone flys a flag proudly that you might not like doesnt mean you cant respect them and allow them to fly part of american history

I'm going to keep quoting old posts for those who don't read the thread from now on :rofl

I don't think it's that people aren't reading your opinions Loretta, it's that they don't agree with them. :P I don't think quoting yourself over and over again is going to change anyone's mind.

Personally, I wonder why people would wear/fly/display it if they KNOW that it is widely associated with something like racism. I personally don't care what people do. I will draw my own conclusions based on how the person behaves more than anything, but to pretend like just because things are "only a symbol" or "represent more than one thing" means that the negative connotations shouldn't matter is naive. They DO matter. People's feelings matter. How certain symbols, words, ideas, etc. are viewed matters. We are HUMAN. Otherwise you would be able to say fuck on public TV, teachers could let their students name teddy bears Mohammad without getting themselves stoned, and people could wear big swastika tattoos on their foreheads without getting beaten down in Compton. :P

I am completely aware that you can't please all of the people all the time, blah blah. But, I am also aware that things like the swastika and the confederate flag are forever tainted with the memory of grave injustices committed against people, and that's just the way it is.

There are other confederate flags that do not have the same negative stigma. Why don't people fly those instead? I don't get it. I still support people's right to freedom of speech though.

I don't think it's that people aren't reading your opinions Loretta, it's that they don't agree with them. :P I don't think quoting yourself over and over again is going to change anyone's mind.

Personally, I wonder why people would wear/fly/display it if they KNOW that it is widely associated with something like racism. I personally don't care what people do. I will draw my own conclusions based on how the person behaves more than anything, but to pretend like just because things are "only a symbol" or "represent more than one thing" means that the negative connotations shouldn't matter is naive. They DO matter. People's feelings matter. How certain symbols, words, ideas, etc. are viewed matters. We are HUMAN. Otherwise you would be able to say fuck on public TV, teachers could let their students name teddy bears Mohammad without getting themselves stoned, and people could wear big swastika tattoos on their foreheads without getting beaten down in Compton. :P

I am completely aware that you can't please all of the people all the time, blah blah. But, I am also aware that things like the swastika and the confederate flag are forever tainted with the memory of grave injustices committed against people, and that's just the way it is.

There are other confederate flags that do not have the same negative stigma. Why don't people fly those instead? I don't get it. I still support people's right to freedom of speech though.

Well, I know in Mississippi we fly it because it's part of our state flag. I can't help what other people feel or think. I don't automatically assume that just because someone has a shit or flag that they are racist. Maybe that's naive to some but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I just feel allowing that one item to be so powerful is something that the person individually has to deal with because the flag will never go away.

I am from GA... When I was younger and not informed the way I should have been I saw this flag as a sign of hatred and racism.. As I got older and learned more and actually listened I realized that it's all about history. Yes, some people make it a symbol for racism, which is totally uncalled for and just stupid. However, not all people who fly that flag are that way. As far as I am concerned the flag is a part of history that is misrepresented!!

It's a historic flag. If someone displayed the 13 star flag, would that be offensive? Slavery was prevalent then, too...

It's a big part of half of the country's history. Displaying it does not make someone a racist.

Are there racists who DO display it? Sure...there are also racists who preach in churches, teach in schools, and display current american flags, too...

So it boils down to not judging a book by it's cover, and respecting the local history of wherever you are.

Just my take! :goodvibes

I agree.. I think it means something different to everyone. I have seen white and black guys in VA wear them somewhere on there body. :shrug

I'm pretty undecided on this issue. Although I personally can't see much of a difference between flying a confederate flag here in the US and someone flying something with a swastika on it in Germany. It makes me uneasy to see a confederate flag displayed exactly for the reason that you don't know WHY it is flown.

I personally don't care. It's just never bothered me b/c I was never taught anything about it. I'm from NY so I guess it doesn't matter to me. I dunno

I'm pretty undecided on this issue. Although I personally can't see much of a difference between flying a confederate flag here in the US and someone flying something with a swastika on it in Germany. It makes me uneasy to see a confederate flag displayed exactly for the reason that you don't know WHY it is flown.

Kris, you are exactly right...If you don't know the person then you don't know why that flag is flown...

It still doesn't change what it is for ME but just to show how it is misrepresented...:(

I don't think it's that people aren't reading your opinions Loretta, it's that they don't agree with them. :P I don't think quoting yourself over and over again is going to change anyone's mind.

Personally, I wonder why people would wear/fly/display it if they KNOW that it is widely associated with something like racism. I personally don't care what people do. I will draw my own conclusions based on how the person behaves more than anything, but to pretend like just because things are "only a symbol" or "represent more than one thing" means that the negative connotations shouldn't matter is naive. They DO matter. People's feelings matter. How certain symbols, words, ideas, etc. are viewed matters. We are HUMAN. Otherwise you would be able to say fuck on public TV, teachers could let their students name teddy bears Mohammad without getting themselves stoned, and people could wear big swastika tattoos on their foreheads without getting beaten down in Compton. :P

I am completely aware that you can't please all of the people all the time, blah blah. But, I am also aware that things like the swastika and the confederate flag are forever tainted with the memory of grave injustices committed against people, and that's just the way it is.

There are other confederate flags that do not have the same negative stigma. Why don't people fly those instead? I don't get it. I still support people's right to freedom of speech though.

ITA, especially the boldest parts.

I really believe that being from Maryland makes you view the flag different from the rest of the country. Like Ash said, it's a divided state. I've always been taught to call it the neutral state. Growing up, we were taught that it had historical significance that was important, but that it was often used as an offensive symbol in modern times. Pretty much, we were taught both sides of the story.

In the last year, I've done a lot of family research, and found out that my ancestors fought on BOTH sides of the war. My great-great-grandfather and his brothers fought on the Confederate side to protect their homes, land, family, and business. Learning about their struggles during the Civil War gave me a lot of humility, especially concerning my previous views of the Confederate Flag and its history. They weren't fighting for slavery, they were fighting for their livelihood (sp?). And in Maryland, my great-great on another line was doing the exact same thing, on the other side of the fence.

Now here's the most interesting part of all - both great-greats, one in Virginia, and one in Maryland - they BOTH owned slaves.

(Disclaimer here - I am NOT NOT NOT proud of that in any way. I simply find it very enlightening to know that both sides of the fight in my family were slave owners.)

Another quirky tidbit is that my great-great in VA provided for his slaves in his will, most notably an elderly and blind slave, so that they would not be sold to the cotton plantations of the 'south' where they were treated so poorly. I find it interesting that as a southerner himself, and a confederate, he feared for his slaves' quality of life in what he considered to be the cruel industry of southern cotton industry.

Again, I am not defending slaverly, or trying to make it seem ok. NOT IN THE LEAST. I am not trying to say his actions made his owning of slaves ok. But I wanted to share those tidbits of family history that have made me see that there is much more to the Conferate movement than meets the eye when you look at in on the individual level. I have much more respect now for the past, but out of respect for the present I would NEVER display the confederate flag anywhere.

I'm not a fan.

My grandfather had a confederate flag for as long as I remember and when he died it was given to my brother. He has never displayed it as a symbol of racism but about the history. I do know of people that have and in that case then yes I think it's wrong but I think it's fine if being flown for the right reasons. JMO

I always thought that someone who displayed that flag was just proud to be from the south.. :shrug

That is how it is for a lot of people that I know. They fly it because they are proud of where they are from.

I totally agree with ya'll.
And actually while I was in Mississippi I saw MANY MAAAAANY black people wearing and "sporting" the Dixie flag.

Coming from CA I thought it meant nothing but hate and racism. My dad and his family are from Arkansas and they tried to teach me other wise, but I wouldnt listen. Then we moved to the south, and let me tell you my thinking really hurt alot of peoples feelings. I had many stories told to me and now I think completely different. And I wear it proudly. I have flip flops with the Dixie flag on them and even a t shirt that says "If this flag offends you, you need a history lesson".

I want that shirt Kat!!! Can I come steal it from you? :P

It's a historic flag. If someone displayed the 13 star flag, would that be offensive? Slavery was prevalent then, too...

It's a big part of half of the country's history. Displaying it does not make someone a racist.

Are there racists who DO display it? Sure...there are also racists who preach in churches, teach in schools, and display current american flags, too...

So it boils down to not judging a book by it's cover, and respecting the local history of wherever you are.

Just my take! :goodvibes

You said it best Loretta! I totally Agree with you.

I don't know. :dunno I'm from California and have no opinion on the Confederate flag. My husband is from Missouri, and has done research on it. It is actually represented as the cross of St. Andrew (the apostle was martyred by being crucified on an X-shaped cross), and is commonly called the "Southern Cross." A large degree of the Southern population was of Scottish and Scotch-Irish ancestry, and thus familiar with St. Andrew, the patron saint of Scotland. The stars represented the eleven states actually in the Confederacy, plus Kentucky and Missouri. This flag is the flag popularly associated with Robert E. Lee, and is the flag under which he fought.

My best friend is black and attaches the flag to racism and all it stands for.


And actually the "Confederate Flag" you all are thinking of, is actually just the Battle Flag.... The actual National Flag of the Confederacy doesn't seem to get much noteriety :shrug

Well, I know in Mississippi we fly it because it's part of our state flag. I can't help what other people feel or think. I don't automatically assume that just because someone has a shit or flag that they are racist. Maybe that's naive to some but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I just feel allowing that one item to be so powerful is something that the person individually has to deal with because the flag will never go away.

I'm not talking about the state flags that have it incorporated in the design. I am talking about the "battle flag" in question here. :yes

I'm not talking about the state flags that have it incorporated in the design. I am talking about the "battle flag" in question here. :yes

Right. I get that but the battle flag (southern cross) is a part of this state. It is so much a part of the state that it is incorporated into our flag.

Right. I get that but the battle flag (southern cross) is a part of this state. It is so much a part of the state that it is incorporated into our flag.

And that's fine, whatever. I honestly don't care. I just don't understand, that's all. I don't get it. :lol People don't CHOOSE what their state flags are, and if their state has the battle flag incorporated that's different than choosing to fly just the battle flag itself. Honestly, I seriously don't care either way, just saying...

And I certainly don't understand why anyone would jump all over anyone else who recognizes the flag as a racist symbol, especially since to a lot of people IT IS. Racist people and organizations have used that flag as a symbol for hate for a LONG time now. I personally wouldn't ever choose to fly it or put it on any of my property because I wouldn't want to give the impression of racism out to anyone. It doesn't matter to me so much the reason WHY I am flying it, if someone sees me as a racist because of it that would upset me. I would pick another version of the flag or a completely different symbol of my southern pride. Maybe it isn't fair that a few bad apples spoiled the bunch, but the fact is, THEY DID. *I* would just choose not to risk it. If anyone else wants to, more power to them. But, when you wear a symbol that has been associated with something bad in recent history and people still connect the two, you risk the assumptions. I don't think people SHOULD assume anything, I am just realistic and know that they DO ANYWAY.

And that's fine, whatever. I honestly don't care. I just don't understand, that's all. I don't get it. :lol People don't CHOOSE what their state flags are, and if their state has the battle flag incorporated that's different than choosing to fly just the battle flag itself. Honestly, I seriously don't care either way, just saying...

And I certainly don't understand why anyone would jump all over anyone else who recognizes the flag as a racist symbol, especially since to a lot of people IT IS. Racist people and organizations have used that flag as a symbol for hate for a LONG time now. I personally wouldn't ever choose to fly it or put it on any of my property because I wouldn't want to give the impression of racism out to anyone. It doesn't matter to me so much the reason WHY I am flying it, if someone sees me as a racist because of it that would upset me. I would pick another version of the flag or a completely different symbol of my southern pride. Maybe it isn't fair that a few bad apples spoiled the bunch, but the fact is, THEY DID. *I* would just choose not to risk it. If anyone else wants to, more power to them. But, when you wear a symbol that has been associated with something bad in recent history and people still connect the two, you risk the assumptions. I don't think people SHOULD assume anything, I am just realistic and know that they DO ANYWAY.

I didn't mean to come off as jumping on anyone for their opinion. If I did then my bad. I just don't agree that it HAS TO BE something tainted. It's just what you make it. I can't change history but I do have pride in my state and I do love the rebel flag and I am very glad that we, as a state, voted to keep the battle flag in our state flag. It's where we came from and part of who we are, good and bad. We learn from our mistakes in history and it cannot be erased so continuing to associate it with hate (which to me is a personal/conscious decision) will just continue to fuel the fire of hatred. I'm not jumping on anyone, I'm really not. Again, my bad if it comes off that way.

I have not done extensive research on the confederate flag, however, see it as a racist symbol and would never entertain the thought of displaying it. Regardless of its "positive" historic value, it is clear that this flag was/is/will be used as a symbol for those that are racist. This (in my opinion) supersedes any other meaning it once had, similar to that of the swastika. It (according to my own morals/logic) carries such negativity was used in such a negative fashion.... that my compassion for my fellow man would not allow me to be so insensitive and selfish for the simple purpose of giving me a little alleged "pride" or simply to rebel because I feel I “should” be able to display this/that. Clearly, pride in whatever my hometown/group/organization would be...could be gained through other methods and neutral symbols. Certain situations cannot be remedied simply by “declaring” it no longer a problem (i.e. racism...especially since the confederate flag is actively being used as a racists marker). It amazes me how people can show such little empathy for others. I see it time and time again, and its disheartening. I just couldn't knowingly do that to anyone. We make compromises every day. While we may not be able to cater to every offensive item, we should feel morally obligated to do as much as we can to recognize what others may find offensive...it really doesn't take that much effort and if you look at the big picture....at best...it may be a small inconvenience to you but mean the world to someone else. The world becomes a better place....people become better people...one good gesture at a time...one positive thought at time....one good deed at a time….