I am hoping this stays civil given the number of people we have on this site that are not citizens/recently became citizens.

In class this morning, a student who is from Poland and is waiting on his citizenship interview discussed his experiences in a prison camp in Syria when he was fighting with the US military in 2003-2004.

He explained how he was forced to kill people who were shackled to the ground if they made an attempt to move AT ALL. He said how scarred he is from this and how demoralizing it was for him to kill people who had no weapons or any way to harm him. He described it like killing a baby.

I find his story and those of others who work at military prison camps to be frightening and disheartening. But that is neither here nor there. After he finished speaking about how he then lost his faith in the Bush administration of which he had been a major supporter, in fact this was the reason he went to war for the United States.

Another student in my class said "I am not going to respond, I am sick and tired of hearing my president questioned"

I pointed out that this is one of the joys of a democratic society, but no one really cared :lol

Then, and this is what kills me, a student said "dude, shut up, no one cares what you have to say, you are not even a citizen"

This was said to a man who has gone to war for this country, who is no enduring the horrors of PTSD, has lost his wife over the PTSD and was told his views of the war and torture do not matter as he is not a citizen.

I find the account of someone who was there first hand to be more of a quality opinion than a boy who still lives at home and has never, and probably will never, be in a war. I am sure that the student who said it will lose a letter grade in the class as on the syllabus it states that is the consequence for personal attack.

I guess the questions is, do you think that someone who lives here, but is not a citizen has the same rights as you or I, to question the government? Futhermore, do you think someone who has fought for us in a war should have a smoother path to citizenship?

I think that is a very sad & heart breaking story. I don't think it SHOULD but many even on here feel the same way. That if you are trying to become a citizen you need to just shut up, bend over, and take it. I don't think that is right at all. i think everyone should have the right to say how they feel about a situation with out having where they were or were not by sheer luck born thrown in their face.

Rather then get hung up on the fact that he is not a born citizen they SHOULD of paid far more attention to the truth coming out of his mouth about what he witnessed first hand.

as for the last YES he fought for this country he deserves to be a citizen with out getting hung up in the system for years. I feel the same way for AD members that marry a nonAmerican. They are SERVING this country things should be a tad smoother on getting their wives made a citizen.

I guess the questions is, do you think that someone who lives here, but is not a citizen has the same rights as you or I, to question the government? Futhermore, do you think someone who has fought for us in a war should have a smoother path to citizenship?

Yes and yes. I think that since the world as a whole is becoming more and more connected and since things the US does often times not only affects what happens here but has affects all over the world, we have the responsibility as world citizens to question not only what happens in out own but also in other countries.

I think it is a shame that he still has to fight all this red tape after having served with the US military.

But my opnion might be just slightly biased. ;) There have been too many times when I have been told that I have no right to question what the US administration does, And too many times when I have been told to 'just leave' if I don't like things the way they are. And too many problems in getting my VISA.

I wonder if anyone feels the opposite?

I really want to know the rationale. I personally, enjoy hearing the opinions of people from other countries, I think it is important to know what the world's perceptions are.

It really broke my heart to hear the exchange in my class this morning

I think it is interesting that this thread has 31 views but so few replies.

I think it is interesting that this thread has 31 views but so few replies.

I think that's not unlike any other thread in this forum.

Although, I'm fairly sure no one wants to get wrapped up in such a touchy subject....I know I don't. This is one of those subjects that if not handled carefully or worded just right could cause major drama.

I'm just now seeing this. I think that the citizens have more say in what goes on because they have the right to vote for who and what goes on here. People can questions all day 'til the cows come home whatever they want whenever they want BUT if it truly means that much to them then they need to do whatever it takes to get citizenship and do something about it. I can gripe all I want about other countries and their policy's and their ideals but I'm not LIVING there or trying to get citizenship there. What I think upsets so many is the fact that we have an unbelievable amount of illegal immigrants here in the country who hate how it's run and gripe this or that but love the luxuries & benefits that this country provides. Some people may equate it to biting the hand that feeds you. Truly though, if you want to make a change and become a citizen then great otherwise I don't see much point in bitching about the country you personally call home yet don't pay taxes in or vote in unless you are just like it up there on the soapbox.

This guy that is being referred to in this thread though is actively trying to get his visa, he's served beside the military of this country (not sure if he was IN the US military or not, confused on that) so it seems he wants to be proactive in making the changes that he feels would help out this country. I think that's commendable.

I am hoping this stays civil given the number of people we have on this site that are not citizens/recently became citizens.

In class this morning, a student who is from Poland and is waiting on his citizenship interview discussed his experiences in a prison camp in Syria when he was fighting with the US military in 2003-2004.

He explained how he was forced to kill people who were shackled to the ground if they made an attempt to move AT ALL. He said how scarred he is from this and how demoralizing it was for him to kill people who had no weapons or any way to harm him. He described it like killing a baby.

I find his story and those of others who work at military prison camps to be frightening and disheartening. But that is neither here nor there. After he finished speaking about how he then lost his faith in the Bush administration of which he had been a major supporter, in fact this was the reason he went to war for the United States.

Another student in my class said "I am not going to respond, I am sick and tired of hearing my president questioned"

I pointed out that this is one of the joys of a democratic society, but no one really cared :lol

Then, and this is what kills me, a student said "dude, shut up, no one cares what you have to say, you are not even a citizen"

This was said to a man who has gone to war for this country, who is no enduring the horrors of PTSD, has lost his wife over the PTSD and was told his views of the war and torture do not matter as he is not a citizen.

I find the account of someone who was there first hand to be more of a quality opinion than a boy who still lives at home and has never, and probably will never, be in a war. I am sure that the student who said it will lose a letter grade in the class as on the syllabus it states that is the consequence for personal attack.

I guess the questions is, do you think that someone who lives here, but is not a citizen has the same rights as you or I, to question the government? Futhermore, do you think someone who has fought for us in a war should have a smoother path to citizenship?

This is a very sad story, it is someone's story of misfortune and sorrow. I think that is what hurts more.

From what I know, foreign citizens who serve in the US Military after a year of honorable service have the rights to American citizenship. I saw some news about this on AFN and there is also a commercial about it.

Best wishes to this man.

You have some serious assholes in that class. Those kinds of insensitive, ignorant comments would make me want to fly across the desk and choke somebody.

Of COURSE the man has a right to have an opinion. Why would him not being an American citizen take away his basic human right to think? That's the biggest load of shit I think I've ever heard. (Not you, Ash, the guy who made the comment in your class)

I doubt ANY of us have faced the awful things that man has at the hands of a government. Still, the fact that he wants to be an American citizen, even after what he went through.... says a lot about our country- government aside.

And yes, I DO think that people who have fought FOR us should have an easier time being granted citizenship.

I'm just now seeing this. I think that the citizens have more say in what goes on because they have the right to vote for who and what goes on here. People can questions all day 'til the cows come home whatever they want whenever they want BUT if it truly means that much to them then they need to do whatever it takes to get citizenship and do something about it. I can gripe all I want about other countries and their policy's and their ideals but I'm not LIVING there or trying to get citizenship there. What I think upsets so many is the fact that we have an unbelievable amount of illegal immigrants here in the country who hate how it's run and gripe this or that but love the luxuries & benefits that this country provides. Some people may equate it to biting the hand that feeds you. Truly though, if you want to make a change and become a citizen then great otherwise I don't see much point in bitching about the country you personally call home yet don't pay taxes in or vote in unless you are just like it up there on the soapbox.

This guy that is being referred to in this thread though is actively trying to get his visa, he's served beside the military of this country (not sure if he was IN the US military or not, confused on that) so it seems he wants to be proactive in making the changes that he feels would help out this country. I think that's commendable.

I agree with the bolded parts

You have some serious assholes in that class. Those kinds of insensitive, ignorant comments would make me want to fly across the desk and choke somebody.

Of COURSE the man has a right to have an opinion. Why would him not being an American citizen take away his basic human right to think? That's the biggest load of shit I think I've ever heard. (Not you, Ash, the guy who made the comment in your class)

I doubt ANY of us have faced the awful things that man has at the hands of a government. Still, the fact that he wants to be an American citizen, even after what he went through.... says a lot about our country- government aside.

And yes, I DO think that people who have fought FOR us should have an easier time being granted citizenship.

I absolutely agree. Couldn't have said it better myself.

You have some serious assholes in that class. Those kinds of insensitive, ignorant comments would make me want to fly across the desk and choke somebody.

Of COURSE the man has a right to have an opinion. Why would him not being an American citizen take away his basic human right to think? That's the biggest load of shit I think I've ever heard. (Not you, Ash, the guy who made the comment in your class)

I doubt ANY of us have faced the awful things that man has at the hands of a government. Still, the fact that he wants to be an American citizen, even after what he went through.... says a lot about our country- government aside.

And yes, I DO think that people who have fought FOR us should have an easier time being granted citizenship.
:tu

foreign citizens who serve in the US Military

This is the key phrase for me. I'd like to know how many countries would allow an American to come in and serve in their military without citizenship of that country. I really have no idea on this but I suspect if there are any, they are far and few inbetween.

DH has served with many who are not US citizens. I don't know what he thinks but my personal opinion is I don't think we should allow anyone to be in our military services unless they have gotten their US citizenship.

I have no issues with people who are living here LEGALLY.
(my sister in law has been here for 20 years and has not taken the step to US citizenship)

I just think if you want to serve, you should have your citizenship.
Oh and you should be able to speak English fully and clearly. :P DH served with a guy who was from India - his wife was as well. No one could understand them. It was really bad. Always made me wonder why he wanted to be here. KWIM? Everytime they deployed, which was often, she went home to India b/c she couldn't communicate with anyone here. :no

OP

As if being born in this country gives anyone any more "knowledge"
Everyone can have opinions - at least, when it comes to foreigners becoming citizens, they have that desire and guts to follow through with plans and dreams.

We're a nation who's becoming more unhealthy by the minute - living off of McD's and netflix.
As if anyone can realy judge anyone, these days.


"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

People can questions all day 'til the cows come home whatever they want whenever they want BUT if it truly means that much to them then they need to do whatever it takes to get citizenship and do something about it.I can gripe all I want about other countries and their policy's and their ideals but I'm not LIVING there or trying to get citizenship there. What I think upsets so many is the fact that we have an unbelievable amount of illegal immigrants here in the country who hate how it's run and gripe this or that but love the luxuries & benefits that this country provides. Some people may equate it to biting the hand that feeds you. Truly though, if you want to make a change and become a citizen then great otherwise I don't see much point in bitching about the country you personally call home yet don't pay taxes in or vote in unless you are just like it up there on the soapbox.

This is the key phrase for me. I'd like to know how many countries would allow an American to come in and serve in their military without citizenship of that country. I really have no idea on this but I suspect if there are any, they are far and few inbetween.

I have no issues with people who are living here LEGALLY.
(my sister in law has been here for 20 years and has not taken the step to US citizenship)

I just think if you want to serve, you should have your citizenship.
Oh and you should be able to speak English fully and clearly. :P

Tottally agree! Well said.

I'm not a US citizen...
But I can only Imagen how terrible it feels to serve and then get treated like that.
I hate seeing people bashing the US all the time.
I sometimes feel that I love the US a lot more then people who actually live here.

kittieb

I'm not a US citizen...
But I can only Imagen how terrible it feels to serve and then get treated like that.
I hate seeing people bashing the US all the time.



:glomp

I can't believe that student said that. What a way to ruin a class discussion. In hated when situations like this happened in college classes. I feel really sorry for that student who said no one cares.

In a family of 6, only 2 of us (myself included) were born in America and have citizenship.

I believe that the only thing that separates someone born in America (or someone born to US Citizens) is the emotional attachment for America that is created before they turn 18 and can become a citizen themselves.

Because of that emotional attachment, hopefully a citizen is concerned about their nation enough to vote for what they believe is best.

And, at the same time, serving in the military creates an extreme emotional attachment. I think that citizenship should become automatic once a person graduates from Basic Training / Boot Camp, and I would love to see citizenship ceremonies included in the graduation ceremonies.

Of course... to keep people from going through Basic, then going AWOL once they have their certificate of citizenship, I think that a person should get an other-than-dishonorable discharge in order to keep that citizenship, if they entered the military as a non-citizen.

I didnt know that non citizens could serve in the US military.
But I do think if they have served they should definitely be given an easier ride.

In order to serve in the US Military someone has to already be a US Resident. The Military will NOT help with immigration issues. It takes YEARS after becoming a resident before becoming a US citizen. And those serving in the military as a non US citizen are restricted to certain jobs anyway. SO it's not as if someone can just join the military and get a free and easy ride to citizenship.

This is the key phrase for me. I'd like to know how many countries would allow an American to come in and serve in their military without citizenship of that country. I really have no idea on this but I suspect if there are any, they are far and few inbetween.

DH has served with many who are not US citizens. I don't know what he thinks but my personal opinion is I don't think we should allow anyone to be in our military services unless they have gotten their US citizenship.

I have no issues with people who are living here LEGALLY.
(my sister in law has been here for 20 years and has not taken the step to US citizenship)

I just think if you want to serve, you should have your citizenship.
Oh and you should be able to speak English fully and clearly. :P DH served with a guy who was from India - his wife was as well. No one could understand them. It was really bad. Always made me wonder why he wanted to be here. KWIM? Everytime they deployed, which was often, she went home to India b/c she couldn't communicate with anyone here. :no

I just want to point out that it is very possible to be here LEGALLY and still not have US citizenship.
I have lived in the US for 8 years now, LEGALLY (I have a green card) and I am not a citizen.

And yes, I believe that anyone has a right to state their opinion, it doesn't matter if they are a citizen or not.
I certainly like to believe my voice and opinion counts, despite the fact that I am not a US citizen.

Oh and you should be able to speak English fully and clearly. :P DH served with a guy who was from India - his wife was as well. No one could understand them. It was really bad. Always made me wonder why he wanted to be here. KWIM? Everytime they deployed, which was often, she went home to India b/c she couldn't communicate with anyone here. :no

I don't agree that you should judge this man because of something he cannot control, he was born with this accent. To him america is now his country, so if he sees the need to protect and fight for his country then more power to him. I don't blame his wife for wanting family support when her DH is deployed. There is alot of families out there from different countries and all they want is a chance to make it in this world.

My family is from another country, and we came to this country when i was only 2. The reason my parents chose to come to america is in hope for a better place to raise their family. Although i have been here for 23 years i still have not taken the steps to become a true citizen (one day i probably will). Everyone in my family that is not a US citizen does have a green card and pay taxes like any other US citizens out there.


For the OP, i think that its wrong for someone with barely any experiences in life tell someone that is probably old enought to be his father to just shut up. i don't think that just because your not a us citizen your are not entitle to your opinions to whats going on in this country. Heck if i have something to say, i am not going to keep quiet. He should give him some respect, just because he's older.

I don't agree that you should judge this man because of something he cannot control, he was born with this accent. To him america is now his country, so if he sees the need to protect and fight for his country then more power to him. I don't blame his wife for wanting family support when her DH is deployed. There is alot of families out there from different countries and all they want is a chance to make it in this world.

My family is from another country, and we came to this country when i was only 2. The reason my parents choice to come to this america is in hope for a better place to raise their family. Although i have been here for 23 years i still have not taken the steps to become a true citizen (one day i probably will). Everyone in my family that is not a US citizen does have a green card and pay taxes like any other US citizens out there.


For the OP, i think that its wrong for someone with barely any experiences in life tell someone that is probably old enought to be his father to just shut up. i don't think that just because your not a us citizen your are not entitle to your opinions to whats going on in this country. Heck if i have something to say, i am not going to keep quiet. He should give him some respect, just because he's older.

you took the words right out of my mouth.

I don't agree that you should judge this man because of something he cannot control, he was born with this accent. To him america is now his country, so if he sees the need to protect and fight for his country then more power to him. I don't blame his wife for wanting family support when her DH is deployed. There is alot of families out there from different countries and all they want is a chance to make it in this world.

My family is from another country, and we came to this country when i was only 2. The reason my parents choice to come to this america is in hope for a better place to raise their family. Although i have been here for 23 years i still have not taken the steps to become a true citizen (one day i probably will). Everyone in my family that is not a US citizen does have a green card and pay taxes like any other US citizens out there.


For the OP, i think that its wrong for someone with barely any experiences in life tell someone that is probably old enought to be his father to just shut up. i don't think that just because your not a us citizen your are not entitle to your opinions to whats going on in this country. Heck if i have something to say, i am not going to keep quiet. He should give him some respect, just because he's older.

Referring to the bold part-

I believe that's the reason MANY of our parents, grandparents, great-grandparents came to America. There's nothing wrong with wanting a better life for your family, ESPECIALLY if you're doing it the legal way.

People are so quick to look down upon newcomers to our country.... and they conveniently forget that a generation or two (or three, etc) ago... their family members did the EXACT SAME THING.

Life was HARD for my grandmother when she came over here from Norway in 1947. She had to learn a whole new language, which she busted her ass to do (which is why I feel like kicking the shit out of people who complain about accents)... she went through the whole naturalization process... she worked hard and earned everything she had.

That's more than most of us who were born here can say. How many of us can pass the U.S. Citizenship test? We seriously take this life for granted.

Everyone is entitled to thier own opinions. But I am more willing to give someone who is here legally more thought than someone who is here illegally.

I don't agree that you should judge this man because of something he cannot control, he was born with this accent. To him america is now his country, so if he sees the need to protect and fight for his country then more power to him. I don't blame his wife for wanting family support when her DH is deployed. There is alot of families out there from different countries and all they want is a chance to make it in this world.

My family is from another country, and we came to this country when i was only 2. The reason my parents choice to come to this america is in hope for a better place to raise their family. Although i have been here for 23 years i still have not taken the steps to become a true citizen (one day i probably will). Everyone in my family that is not a US citizen does have a green card and pay taxes like any other US citizens out there.


For the OP, i think that its wrong for someone with barely any experiences in life tell someone that is probably old enought to be his father to just shut up. i don't think that just because your not a us citizen your are not entitle to your opinions to whats going on in this country. Heck if i have something to say, i am not going to keep quiet. He should give him some respect, just because he's older.

Thank you I read that post and was like whoa! :tu

In order to serve in the US Military someone has to already be a US Resident. The Military will NOT help with immigration issues. It takes YEARS after becoming a resident before becoming a US citizen. And those serving in the military as a non US citizen are restricted to certain jobs anyway. SO it's not as if someone can just join the military and get a free and easy ride to citizenship.
:yes
and I agree with little miss sunshine too lazy to go back and quote. :lol

Kind of off track, but people were talking about being a US resident and it also taking years to become a citizen. Why does it take so long?

Kind of off track, but people were talking about being a US resident and it also taking years to become a citizen. Why does it take so long?

Bureaucracy. It takes them forever to read the paperwork, then you have to take a test, the test needs to be graded, then you have an interview and then a ceremony. Just waiting for the ceremony after all other steps are taken can take forever.

I don't know my dad doesn't have citizenship here but he has been living here for about 25 years. (hes from australia) He always gives his opinion on the president and issues at hand. Sometimes i find it ironic, but then again, i think if your living here you have every right to. My DB was going the crazy the other day saying if people have a problem THEY CAN LEAVE. But people don't want to leave, that's not what America stands for, thats not what America is about, people just want it back to the way it was i guess.

Actually Ash, in a class yesterday the professor asked if anyone knew who our reps were in the Nevada State Senate and we were all like DER... DUH... UMMM......

Yeah the Asian exchange student knew the names of a ton of Nevada politicians that none of the "real" Americans knew. I actually think foreigners know more about American politics than most native born Americans.

Actually Ash, in a class yesterday the professor asked if anyone knew who our reps were in the Nevada State Senate and we were all like DER... DUH... UMMM......

Yeah the Asian exchange student knew the names of a ton of Nevada politicians that none of the "real" Americans knew. I actually think foreigners know more about American politics than most native born Americans.

:lol I know what you mean. I am a poli sci major and have had people in my classes tell me they didnt know we HAD a state senate here :shock

I think the problem is that as Americans we take so much for granted and don't care to know anymore than the very basic amount we need to function. Whereas someone who is moving here is probably EXCITED to learn as much as humanly possible about their new country of residence. It just really makes me sick.

I met someone last night who is from India, he is just here for school at my college and my friend Maria asked him when he was getting citizenship and he said "why? tell me what is great about it?" and that really scares me because it used to be that people all the world over wanted to be US citizens and now people cannot think of any reason why they'd want to be.

I fear that we are so very deeply damaging our reputation in the international system that it will take generations to overcome :sadeyes

Actually Ash, in a class yesterday the professor asked if anyone knew who our reps were in the Nevada State Senate and we were all like DER... DUH... UMMM......

Yeah the Asian exchange student knew the names of a ton of Nevada politicians that none of the "real" Americans knew. I actually think foreigners know more about American politics than most native born Americans.

When I was in MN as an exchange student one of the tests I had to take in order to GET the scholarship was about US politics, the US school system etc. It is something that is taught in school to us. Not just the German system but I learned about the US, the UK, and many other countries.

I think it is interesting that this thread has 31 views but so few replies.

I will admit I was one of those who viewed a few times.........trying to best formulate my answer, the last thing I want to do is write without thinking and possible offend someone..kwim :grin:

You have some serious assholes in that class. Those kinds of insensitive, ignorant comments would make me want to fly across the desk and choke somebody.

Of COURSE the man has a right to have an opinion. Why would him not being an American citizen take away his basic human right to think? That's the biggest load of shit I think I've ever heard. (Not you, Ash, the guy who made the comment in your class)

I doubt ANY of us have faced the awful things that man has at the hands of a government. Still, the fact that he wants to be an American citizen, even after what he went through.... says a lot about our country- government aside.

And yes, I DO think that people who have fought FOR us should have an easier time being granted citizenship.

Very well said



I just think if you want to serve, you should have your citizenship.
Oh and you should be able to speak English fully and clearly. :P DH served with a guy who was from India - his wife was as well. No one could understand them. It was really bad. Always made me wonder why he wanted to be here. KWIM? Everytime they deployed, which was often, she went home to India b/c she couldn't communicate with anyone here. :no

Maybe no one wanted to try and communicate with the wife because they felt she couldn't communicate. And maybe she chose to go home to India because she felt that is where her support system was.

As far as accents go and speaking English clearly..........what about people from other states with heavy southern accents or northern accents?? What about people from the bayous?? Should we make them speak the language clearly even though they have been citizens since birth??

You can not ask someone to change where they are from or their accent before allowing them citizenship, thats just unfair

In order to serve in the US Military someone has to already be a US Resident. The Military will NOT help with immigration issues. It takes YEARS after becoming a resident before becoming a US citizen. And those serving in the military as a non US citizen are restricted to certain jobs anyway. SO it's not as if someone can just join the military and get a free and easy ride to citizenship.


:yes....dh has served alongside a couple of people in these situations

I don't agree that you should judge this man because of something he cannot control, he was born with this accent. To him america is now his country, so if he sees the need to protect and fight for his country then more power to him. I don't blame his wife for wanting family support when her DH is deployed. There is alot of families out there from different countries and all they want is a chance to make it in this world.

My family is from another country, and we came to this country when i was only 2. The reason my parents chose to come to america is in hope for a better place to raise their family. Although i have been here for 23 years i still have not taken the steps to become a true citizen (one day i probably will). Everyone in my family that is not a US citizen does have a green card and pay taxes like any other US citizens out there.


For the OP, i think that its wrong for someone with barely any experiences in life tell someone that is probably old enought to be his father to just shut up. i don't think that just because your not a us citizen your are not entitle to your opinions to whats going on in this country. Heck if i have something to say, i am not going to keep quiet. He should give him some respect, just because he's older.

Very well said!!




As far as the OP.....since when did citizenship decide our voice?? Did the person not have a right to talk?? He is going to school here and trying to become a citizen.....does that mean he stands in a corner twiddling his thumbs while the world goes on around him until his citizenship comes through.

I'm sorry that you have a class with person who made the assinine comment Ash :no

As far as accents go and speaking English clearly..........

HA HA HA HA!!! You know what is hilarious, we actually elected a President in this country who has an absolutely elementary understanding of the English language. The man can hardly speak. And we have the audacity to get upset about foreigners having an accent or not knowing the language right away? ROFL!!!:duh