I've always been curious as to what people think about this subject...

If you're anorexic or bulemic and putting yourself at risk of disorders, diseases and death your family can legally gain control of you in this way, send you to rehab where they'll monitor your food intake and metal health, all that...In hopes of "curing" your disorder.

Same thing with drug addicts - a judge can send you to rehab, too.

What about the reverse - should families of people who are obese be able to take away their rights (since obesity can lead to diseases, disorders and death, as well) ... and send them to weight-loss rehab?


_____


I don't actually know what I feel about this...I'm a firm believer in others not being able to control my life - one way or another. Anorexia or Obesity...Nope, not anyone's call buy mine.
At the same time, I know that people who would opt for intervention are doing it only out of love and concern.

It's a tough call. Yes, we love them, we are afraid for them and it certainly grieves us to watch them destroy themselves. BUT, an addict can only get better if they have the desire to do so themselves. If there is a desire but perhaps not the willpower to recover, then it might be a case where that would be ok and still work.

Sheesh, these gray areas make my head hurt! LOL

This is an interesting topic. I'll be intrigued to see if we can discuss it without a catfight. :scared

It's a tough call. Yes, we love them, we are afraid for them and it certainly grieves us to watch them destroy themselves. BUT, an addict can only get better if they have the desire to do so themselves. If there is a desire but perhaps not the willpower to recover, then it might be a case where that would be ok and still work.

Sheesh, these gray areas make my head hurt! LOL

This is an interesting topic. I'll be intrigued to see if we can discuss it without a catfight. :scared

i agree with you. they have rehab facilities for overeating and binge eating disorder (i believe it's going in the next DSM version) in addition to anorexia and bulimia. i think if a family is willing to stage an "intervention" or put their minor child in rehab go for it, it does help.

Most definitely YES.

If a loved one is overeating to the point of harming themselves, they surely deserve the best treatment they can get, and I would certainly help them get it.

Not everyone who is obese is a binge eater, but as was established in an earlier thread, we all pretty much agreed that the majority of obese people do overeat. It's a valid concern and a great question!

I think the idea is coming from the heart but like any other addiction you cant force someone to change unless they want to change.

Wasn't there a story out of Great Britian where a mother was investigated for child abuse because her little boy was obese?

Well, its all pretty much agreed that BMI is a bad way of determining obesity....so what's the standard and how do you go about testing who is "obese"?

Wasn't there a story out of Great Britian where a mother was investigated for child abuse because her little boy was obese?

Yes, I watched a couple programs about it while I was in the UK visiting friends.

I don't agree with locking people up against their will in any case. You can't FORCE someone to stop what they are doing unless they want to. Rehab is a choice that other people can't make for you. You have to make that choice for yourself or it won't work anyway.

I think IF the person has a valid food addiction that is greatly endangering their health, then yes, rehab is a good idea. BUT, I don't think that anyone should be allowed to take away their rights or have them deemed unfit to make their own decisions unless they have been diagnosed with a serious mental illness as well. I would be very scared if our country allowed anyone to shuffle fat people into rehab facilities just because they are fat.

I think it would be a great idea, because obesity is at an extreme (and is potentially deadly), just like anorexia.

I think it would be a great idea, because obesity is at an extreme (and is potentially deadly), just like anorexia.

Of course you do... :duh

I think the idea is coming from the heart but like any other addiction you cant force someone to change unless they want to change.

:tu:tu

jesus christ I mean sorry but IT IS MEDICALLY PROVEN THAT OBESITY IS A DEADLY DISEASE. wtf why cant you people leave me alone and understand the point im trying to make (which is completely, CLINICALLY valid), and stop attacking me personally.

jesus christ I mean sorry but IT IS MEDICALLY PROVEN THAT OBESITY IS A DEADLY DISEASE. wtf why cant you people leave me alone and understand the point im trying to make (which is completely, CLINICALLY valid), and stop attacking me personally.

Because you think it is a good idea to TAKE AWAY THEIR LEGAL RIGHTS just because they aren't as healthy as YOU seem to think they should be. That is VERY FASCIST, don't you think? The Nazi's took away people rights because they weren't the right religion... What is the difference?? You think we should shuffle people into internment camps because you don't like the choices they make? REALLY? And you have NO IDEA how offensive that is?

How exactly do their choices affect you enough to make decisions for them?

alright well you are totally skewing my entire concept and turning it into this ridiculously UNTRUE statement. grow the fuck up.

Of course you do... :duh

:rofl

Because you think it is a good idea to TAKE AWAY THEIR LEGAL RIGHTS just because they aren't as healthy as YOU seem to think they should be. That is VERY FASCIST, don't you think? The Nazi's took away people rights because they weren't the right religion... What is the difference?? You think we should shuffle people into internment camps because you don't like the choices they make? REALLY? And you have NO IDEA how offensive that is?

How exactly do their choices affect you enough to make decisions for them?

:hail

I don't agree with it because it doesn't matter where you put me or lock me up, if I don't want to change I'm not going to, my parents put me on every diet in the book growing up and they never worked because I didn't want them too! So it doens't matter what they wanted it was what I wanted. And the doctors even told them that, when I was ready to loose weight I will, and you know its taken me til I'm 36 years old to decided I ready. Yeah I wish it would of been sooner. But when people push you your entire life you just get damn tired of hearing it! and thats the point I was at, so I went to the stage of if you don't like the way I am then I don't give a sh!t this is who I am and I love myself for me and if you don't thats your problem not mine. I'm glad I finally came to that point in my life that i'm finally doing it for ME its the best feeling in the world!

alright well you are totally skewing my entire concept and turning it into this ridiculously UNTRUE statement. grow the fuck up.

:rofl Yeah, I am the one who needs to grow up when YOU are the one who admits to judging people based solely on the way they look...

Why don't we take a poll and see who everyone thinks really needs to "grow the fuck up". :lmao

And when you answer a question asking if people should be able to take away their families legal rights just because they are overweight with YES, I don't think that my response to that is skewed at all... How is what I said untrue? Explain it to me...

I think IF the person has a valid food addiction that is greatly endangering their health, then yes, rehab is a good idea. BUT, I don't think that anyone should be allowed to take away their rights or have them deemed unfit to make their own decisions unless they have been diagnosed with a serious mental illness as well. I would be very scared if our country allowed anyone to shuffle fat people into rehab facilities just because they are fat.

Because you think it is a good idea to TAKE AWAY THEIR LEGAL RIGHTS just because they aren't as healthy as YOU seem to think they should be. That is VERY FASCIST, don't you think? The Nazi's took away people rights because they weren't the right religion... What is the difference?? You think we should shuffle people into internment camps because you don't like the choices they make? REALLY? And you have NO IDEA how offensive that is?

How exactly do their choices affect you enough to make decisions for them?

:rofl Yeah, I am the one who needs to grow up when YOU are the one who admits to judging people based solely on the way they look...

Why don't we take a poll and see who everyone thinks really need to "grow the fuck up". :lmao

And when you answer a question asking if people should be able to take away their families legal rights just because they are overweight with YES, I don't think that my response to that is skewed at all... How is what I said untrue? Explain it to me...

:hail I absolutely agree!!!! :glomp

Wasn't there a story out of Great Britian where a mother was investigated for child abuse because her little boy was obese?

Dr. Phil did a show about obesity. I can't remember when it was but I think it was last year. I think obesity is a huge problem for kids these days. Can you imagine a 3 year old that weighs more than her mom? I think it's unhealthy for both the child and parent.

Devinn asked about where the standard is - how to determine if someone is "obese"

Well - I don't think it's one of those bench-mark things or milestone - one BF% over the line or something ... I think it's purely a health-concern.

If someone who is 5' and 180lbs but still in fairly good physical condition ,doesn't have a lot of health problems and so on is just fine --- but, at the same time, someone else could fit into that 5' and 180lbs bracket and be suffering from weight-related issues left and rights.

It's more of a case by case basis, rather, which is the whole reason for having to get the law involved to give the permission over to someone else.

i think there should be something else to help with the epidemic of obesity. I think that in many cases, there is a triggering factor that causes a person to become overweight (if the individual started at a normal weight). But like it was said before, you really cant treat anyone who doesnt want to be treated.

As for determining if someone is overweight, as was a question earlier. Waist circumference is a determinant (sp?) for concluding if someone is at high risk for developing diabetes, high blood pressure or whatever. I think anything greater than 35" is harmful for women and I think its 37 or 40 for men to determine if the person is at risk.

I don't agree that we should be able to lock someone up against their will if they are mentally stable. If it is in the best interest of the person, and they have shown a repeated lack of control (IE a danger to themselves or others) then a 5150 type of hold is fine. They are limited time frames used to determine if someone is deemed stable enough to return to 'normal' life. (the reason this is okay IMO is that it is a protective measure. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the one left feeling responsible when I knew I could have stopped that person from harming him/herself or others and didn't want to because of what someone else would think. *IMO*)
I don't think that this type of hold would ever apply to someone who is considered obese by popular standards. I do think that if the family is concerned, an intervention can possibly work. The thing with an intervention though, is that the person is offered the chance to change; not put into a rehab facility against their will. You can't force someone to change what they don't want to change.

:rofl Yeah, I am the one who needs to grow up when YOU are the one who admits to judging people based solely on the way they look...

Why don't we take a poll and see who everyone thinks really needs to "grow the fuck up". :lmao

And when you answer a question asking if people should be able to take away their families legal rights just because they are overweight with YES, I don't think that my response to that is skewed at all... How is what I said untrue? Explain it to me...

*chants*

POLL POLL POLL POLL POLL

:cheer

Devinn asked about where the standard is - how to determine if someone is "obese"

Well - I don't think it's one of those bench-mark things or milestone - one BF% over the line or something ... I think it's purely a health-concern.

If someone who is 5' and 180lbs but still in fairly good physical condition ,doesn't have a lot of health problems and so on is just fine --- but, at the same time, someone else could fit into that 5' and 180lbs bracket and be suffering from weight-related issues left and rights.

It's more of a case by case basis, rather, which is the whole reason for having to get the law involved to give the permission over to someone else.

See that's the problem.

Case by case doesn't work because it's really up to the doctor's discretion on whether said "concerns" are health related or not.

For example...

my sister hadn't had a period for several years....doctors AUTOMATICALLY assumed it was her weight (granted, she's a big girl...5'9" 400lbs)...but they never checked ANYTHING because they assumed that the explanation was a given.

Turns out she had a dermoid tumor shutting down her menstrual cycle and blocking blood flow OUT of her body....on TOP of that....it was JUST RECENTLY (she's 38) was diagnosed with PCOS.

Well - Dr's need to check things and not just *assume* things....Because obesity can be a symptom, not the problem...Like for those who have certain thyroid disorders.

Well - Dr's need to check things and not just *assume* things....Because obesity can be a symptom, not the problem...Like for those who have certain thyroid disorders.

We would have to retrain a hell of a lot of doctors in order for that to be even remotely fair.

Doctors almost always assume obesity is the reason rather than the symptom.

Because you think it is a good idea to TAKE AWAY THEIR LEGAL RIGHTS just because they aren't as healthy as YOU seem to think they should be. That is VERY FASCIST, don't you think?

That is not AT ALL fascist Trina!!! Just because all fat people should wear black arm bands identifying them as obese and then sent to internment/rehabilitation camps until they become better people like the rest of us... I mean its FOR THEIR OWN GOOD so whats the problem? LOL. :wowsers

Yeah lock me up because I don't fit into society's mold of a fucking size 0. I'm a good mom and wife. I contribute to society. So what if my ass only gets into a size 16. It takes all kinds to make the world go round.

That is not AT ALL fascist Trina!!! Just because all fat people should wear black arm bands identifying them as obese and then sent to internment/rehabilitation camps until they become better people like the rest of us... I mean its FOR THEIR OWN GOOD so whats the problem? LOL. :wowsers

like they would ever need something extra to identify them :rolleyes

And.. since everyone wants to attack Antonia, I will say that she is correct. Because- she is. Obesity is the cause of far more deaths than anorexia ever was. Probably because it's a lot easier to stuff your face than it is to starve yourself.

like they would ever need something extra to identify them :rolleyes

And.. since everyone wants to attack Antonia, I will say that she is correct. Because- she is. Obesity is the cause of far more deaths than anorexia ever was. Probably because it's a lot easier to stuff your face than it is to starve yourself.

haha thanks girlie :p

Well then I guess we should send smokers to rehab too. OMG! But then they would get fat during the recovery and have to go directly to fat camp rehab!

Okay if we want to be rational about this issue lets do it. Obesity is a major health problem in America. Here are the major problems I see with such an endeavor:

1. Who is going to pay for expensive rehab treatment? The government?

2. What other health issues can your family legally force you to go to rehab for? (ie: smoking, biting your nails, not wearing a coat in the wintertime, insomnia)

3. The glaring major obvious problem that there are people in this country literally dying because they cannot pay for cancer treatment. How would one force poor people to undergo treatment they could not afford and why would obesity treatment take priority over cancer treatment?

4. I assume that the hatred for fat people and the thing about them not eating in public is because people don't like the looks of fat people. So would we be allowed to also ban other people from public places that are unsightly. For example if you are uncomfortable by the sight of a mentally or physically disabled person, you think acne is gross, elderly... etc, should we ban those people too? Oh and can we also ban babies because while they are not unsightly they do cause ear disruptions...

5. Given that we are working on "beautification" of America can we also ban other things that we consider unsightly? I'm thinking ugly cars, ugly houses, ugly public buildings, we should re-do public schools because that tile they use is hideous....

like they would ever need something extra to identify them :rolleyes

And.. since everyone wants to attack Antonia, I will say that she is correct. Because- she is. Obesity is the cause of far more deaths than anorexia ever was. Probably because it's a lot easier to stuff your face than it is to starve yourself.

Wow, you're a horrid little bitch, too. Although, with you....I'm seriously not surprised at this comment.

As long as cigarettes are legal and people have the right to buy them and smoke them taking known health risks. People should also have the right to eat all the food they choose to. What if a family decided that a smoker was "killing themselves" by smoking 3 packs a day but the smoker wanted no help. Should therapy be forced upon the smoker?.......ummm I say hell no:mrgreen

if they're gonna do it for one addiction... then they should do it for all of them. truly, alot of obesity stems from emotions and stress being dealt with through food (just like anerexia just opposite)... if you're family, doctor, and even your insurance company was able to step in and help you deal with these things by sending you to rehab i think that'd be great!

i mean truly, what makes being too skinny worse then being too fat. medically.. prolli not much(not really sure). but i think i'm safe to say it's a cultural thing, people don't like admiting someone who looks like them has a problem... it means you might too! that's why it's so easy to send anorexics and drug addicts away, it doesn't hit close to home as often.

Well - Dr's need to check things and not just *assume* things....Because obesity can be a symptom, not the problem...Like for those who have certain thyroid disorders.

the thing is.. medicine is a practice. the correct answer is usually the simpliest one.

Well then I guess we should send smokers to rehab too. OMG! But then they would get fat during the recovery and have to go directly to fat camp rehab!

Okay if we want to be rational about this issue lets do it. Obesity is a major health problem in America. Here are the major problems I see with such an endeavor:

1. Who is going to pay for expensive rehab treatment? The government?

2. What other health issues can your family legally force you to go to rehab for? (ie: smoking, biting your nails, not wearing a coat in the wintertime, insomnia)

3. The glaring major obvious problem that there are people in this country literally dying because they cannot pay for cancer treatment. How would one force poor people to undergo treatment they could not afford and why would obesity treatment take priority over cancer treatment?

4. I assume that the hatred for fat people and the thing about them not eating in public is because people don't like the looks of fat people. So would we be allowed to also ban other people from public places that are unsightly. For example if you are uncomfortable by the sight of a mentally or physically disabled person, you think acne is gross, elderly... etc, should we ban those people too? Oh and can we also ban babies because while they are not unsightly they do cause ear disruptions...

5. Given that we are working on "beautification" of America can we also ban other things that we consider unsightly? I'm thinking ugly cars, ugly houses, ugly public buildings, we should re-do public schools because that tile they use is hideous....


:puzz
Isn't this whole rehab thing just a joke, anyway? Some people may need counseling and perhaps a few could benefit from an inpatient thing where they are only fed a certain amount and taught to eat less and deal with their emotions- if thats the cause...

We would have to retrain a hell of a lot of doctors in order for that to be even remotely fair.

Doctors almost always assume obesity is the reason rather than the symptom.
This is a subject that pisses me off - Some Dr's and their "all knowing" attitudes.

Dr's aren't perfect, sure, they're human - but that doesn't mean they should slack on their learning when newfound information comes out and so on.
But they do - all the time - they come away with their degree from 1975 and still maintain their practice all this time later without having to retest or proove that they still are capable of practicing fairly and properly.

You know what my EX Dr told me about my leg and back (which he said was directly related to pregnancy and should go away 100% after the last kids were born) - "It's just a problem that some mothers have to live with."
Oh - so there's no therapy, not even going to poke and prod and try to figure out why I'm STILL limping? FU!!

You know what my kid's EX Pediatrician told me about our daugther because she wasn't gaining enough weight when I was nursing - "Well, there's really nothing you can do with your diet, you just need to switch her to formula."

Yeah - I agree that Dr's can jump to conclusions and make some blatant judgements...But not all Dr's.

But that's a whole different subject, whole different thread.

:puzz
Isn't this whole rehab thing just a joke, anyway? Some people may need counseling and perhaps a few could benefit from an inpatient thing where they are only fed a certain amount and taught to eat less and deal with their emotions- if thats the cause...

Yeah - agreed - I think the 'rehab' of anyone is a joke.

I didn't realize that notion was such a serious joke until what's his face was sent to 'rehab' for saying the word "ni*ger" :rolleyes :puzz
What kind of rehab was that - an anti-racist rehab or an anti-slang rehab?
(I'm just trying to point out that they have a 'rehab' for everything, these days, regardless of whether it's a real problem or not...they've turned these types of help-facilities into a joke)

I think the *rehab* notions are just silly, honestly - everyone can care for theirselves as they see fit. If someone's choices aren't healthy *shrug* what can people truly do about it? The best you can do is make help available, but if someone doesn't want it then you shouldn't be allowed to force it on them.
If someone's a drug addict and buy and selling they don't need to go to rehab - they need to go to jail...they can put rehab in the jail, sure.

like they would ever need something extra to identify them :rolleyes

And.. since everyone wants to attack Antonia, I will say that she is correct. Because- she is. Obesity is the cause of far more deaths than anorexia ever was. Probably because it's a lot easier to stuff your face than it is to starve yourself.

No one is attacking anyone for thinking that obesity is a problem. Even the people who are fat think it's a problem. It's her attitude about it, openly admitting that she judges people based solely on their looks and agreeing that a fat persons family should be able to take away their rights and force them into rehab that *I* have a problem with. Is that hard to understand?

:puzz
Isn't this whole rehab thing just a joke, anyway? Some people may need counseling and perhaps a few could benefit from an inpatient thing where they are only fed a certain amount and taught to eat less and deal with their emotions- if thats the cause...

Rehab is only a joke if you send people to it that don't want to be there. Hence why we should probably not force people to go against their will. :duh

And I am talking about ACTUAL rehab, not some scared celebrity going to a facility when they do something to hurt their career so they can claim that they are all better and everyone should like them again.

I think they should use test results and such. I have a hormone condition and I have been losing weight but its harder for me to do so. I am down to less than what I was pre pregnancy. But even when I was pregnant, my dr used to tell me she couldnt believe my labs, they were labs of someone who was in super perfect shape and skinny. But my friend who was skinny before pregnancy had worse labs than me.