EDITED TO SAY
**VULGAR CONTENT INCLUDED:BULLETIN DESCRIBING A PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION**

Would I be a hypocritical bitch to change my views on abortion from pro-chioce to pro-life, even though I had an abortion last year?
I had the abortion due to medical problems. It was devastating for me, but made me realize that being pro-choice was important (then.)
Now, I just read this bulletin on myspace.
" In September 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with thirteen years of experience, was assigned by her nursing agency to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very pro-choice," she didn't think this assignment would be a problem. She was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:



"I stood at the doctor's side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who was six months pregnant. The baby's heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen. The doctor delivered the baby's body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby's body was moving. His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and inserted them into the back of the baby's head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction, like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up. Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's brains out. Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy. It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."


But what about if the baby had been aborted at a younger age.. say 6 weeks? When the baby is this young, doctors use the Saline Method, where they inject a salty saline solution into the mother's womb. You would think it would just poison the baby, but it actually burns it to death. Even though the baby is so young, on ultrasounds of the abortion, the fetus is seen pulling away from the poison as it is injected.. obviously wanting to stay alive.(The baby is intelligent enough to move away from the pain..but the child can't escape it)


Think about that before you say that unborn children can't feel pain.


PASS THIS ON IF YOU BELIEVE ABORTION IS WRONG.

Life is life, no matter how small.
A baby cries for it's first and last time when it's aborted
You can deny but its true.

A baby is a living thing. thats like killing one of your friends!!!

ITS A BABY, NOT A CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Repost this with the title It's a Baby not a choice"

Although I already knew all of that, I think being pregnant made me think of it in a hell of a different way when I read it again.
So, would I be a hypocrite for changing my views now that I'm having a baby and feel differently???

Discuss.

i just got sick reading that

Well, I don't trust half the shit that goes through myspace, I suppose you just have to use better judgment on what you think it real or not.

I don't think I can comment on the rest.

oh i think im going to vomit

I don't think it makes you a hypocrite for having a change of heart. Hypocracy would be saying one thing and doing another.
I have changed my views on many things or at least have tempered the views a bit, after experience and exposure to other things. That is a part of maturing, In my opinion.

i think its just fine for you to change your views.
its very sad reading that :(

i just got sick reading that

OMG I'm so freaking sorry...I was concentrating on getting an answer to my question rather than how some people might feel reading that.
I put a disclaimer at the top.
I'm so sorry! :hugs

I don't think it makes you a hypocritical bitch. I think it means your are still growing as a person with these new experiences, and your views are changing accordingly.

i think i'm going to vomit.....

Well, I don't trust half the shit that goes through myspace, I suppose you just have to use better judgment on what you think it real or not.

I don't think I can comment on the rest.
JUST CURIOUS...May I ask why you feel you can't comment?
I didn't mean to provoke anybody or make anybody mad. I was honestly wondering if anybody thought it would make me hypocritical to change my views after having gone through the things I listed.

OMG I'm so freaking sorry...I was concentrating on getting an answer to my question rather than how some people might feel reading that.
I put a disclaimer at the top.
I'm so sorry! :hugs

it's ok don't feel bad. i just look at my little girl and think how anyone could stop that life. you are not a hypocrite

thats horrible horrible horrible i cant get the mental picture out of my head i dont know if its true or what not but omg my view on abortion is its not BC there are reasons (such as medical, rape, incest and what not) for it but goodness i would think drs wouldnt even do abortions on babys that old bleh im going to be sick to my stomach for awhile

thats horrible horrible horrible i cant get the mental picture out of my head i dont know if its true or what not but omg my view on abortion is its not BC there are reasons (such as medical, rape, incest and what not) for it but goodness i would think drs wouldnt even do abortions on babys that old bleh im going to be sick to my stomach for awhile
I am sorry.
I didn't realize that some women may not be educated on the different types of abortions? I did a debate on it in HS and I knew all about it including partial birth abortion...it is very true and very saddening...
I'm sorry.

yah i really had no idea to be honest that may make me naive but i never wanted to know(theres nothing for you to be sorry about im the one that read it) really its something i hope i never have to go through and i will never need to know more i choose to be naive when it comes to the subject

i knew what partial birth abortion entailed it just is hard reading it my hormones are still wacky

I think just got a little sick reading that

I don't know what to say other than your not a hypocrite.

I think I am going to be sick..

I feel really stupid now for posting this thread at all. I am pregnant and therefor should have given thought to the hormones/stomachs of all of you wonderful women! I did not give any thought to the fact that those of you who have always been pro-life would have never taken time to research different types of abortion, and that must have been awful to read for the first time.
I really just wanted honest opinions on what you all thought of me changing MY views to pro-life from pro-choice.
Once again, I apologize.

People grow and change all of the time. I once was pro life now I am pro choice.

I doubt the truth of that nurses story because partial birth abortion is a political term it is not a medical term. A nurse would use a medical term not the made up version that congressmen/women used when debating the banning late term abortions. DRs that testified at the proceedings explained to congress that the term did/does not exist but partial birth is more sensational so the pro life groups continue to misuse it.

Also it accounts for about 1.4% of all abortions in America. It is not used because a Mother does not want to be a Mother. It is used in extreme cases such as the fetus has died, the fetus has deformities/abnormalities that can not allow it to survive out of the womb, the Mother's life is in danger, etc. It is not done because a woman just doesn't want the baby. In most cases it just does not work that way despite what pro life extreme advocates want people to believe. The correct term is intact D&X.

you have nothing to apologize for like i said i choose to not know about it i dont classify myself as pro choice or pro life partially due to the fact i refuse to do research on it i know im weird but i just wont

You're not weird. It makes total sense to want to shelter yourself from such information.
Had I not done those debates in HS I probably would have never researched it, either.

ive had quite a few friends who have had abortions who have asked me for advice and really all i can say is weigh your options i hate to think of what abortion is and what it does but i do know there are circumstances where its necessary but in my head i like to pretend that when someone feels they need an abortion its done early enough where its not anything like the situation above it just breaks my heart

Well. Whether or not anybody (Not you guys, IRL speaking) gives me shit for it later on, knowing I've had an abortion and will openly admit it when confronted...
I have decided I am changing my views to pro-life. I will continue to be non-judgmental of those whose opinions differ from mine, but there I stand.

I've seen that before...ugh it just breaks my heart...and because i was on birth control when i got pregnant with my 1st DD i keep thinking how could i even take that..because if it would've worked right that beautiful little girl i have so full of life..wouldn't be living her life right now...

:(
Well your little girl IS living her beautiful life!!! :hugs

:(
Well your little girl IS living her beautiful life!!! :hugs

Yes she is and i think i'm gonna give you a :hugehug just cause i think you're a WONDERFUl person!!!!

Yes she is and i think i'm gonna give you a :hugehug just cause i think you're a WONDERFUl person!!!!
:) Thank you. That made me feel much better about making like 10 women sick to their stomachs by posting this thread.

JUST CURIOUS...May I ask why you feel you can't comment?
I didn't mean to provoke anybody or make anybody mad. I was honestly wondering if anybody thought it would make me hypocritical to change my views after having gone through the things I listed.

Yes, I will elaborate. I don't understand why it was important for you then when you were having the abortion (for medical reasons) but now it's not important? What if abortions were banned and people were not allowed to have one even for medical reasons, should that person be subjected to die? I've never had an abortion or never been pregnant, so I might not understand your full reasoning since I've never been in your situation.

You are entitled to change your mind.

As for the rest I will keep my comments to myself.

Yes, I will elaborate. I don't understand why it was important for you then when you were having the abortion (for medical reasons) but now it's not important? What if abortions were banned and people were not allowed to have one even for medical reasons, should that person be subjected to die? I've never had an abortion or never been pregnant, so I might not understand your full reasoning since I've never been in your situation.
No. I do not think abortions should be banned...if you had read further into this thread (and I'm not jumping on you, just suggesting) then you would have seen that I stated I have decided I feel pro-life for my own views, but I would never judge anybody else for their own opinion or choice.
I just got such a wrenching feeling in my gut when I read about the partial-birth abortion, and doing more research to remind myself of all the different types, I myself now feel I will always be pro-life. Meaning I would never have another abortion MYSELF. I do not, however, ever force my opinions on any body else for exactly the reasons you stated. KWIM? :)

No. I do not think abortions should be banned...if you had read further into this thread (and I'm not jumping on you, just suggesting) then you would have seen that I stated I have decided I feel pro-life for my own views, but I would never judge anybody else for their own opinion or choice.
I just got such a wrenching feeling in my gut when I read about the partial-birth abortion, and doing more research to remind myself of all the different types, I myself now feel I will always be pro-life. Meaning I would never have another abortion MYSELF. I do not, however, ever force my opinions on any body else for exactly the reasons you stated. KWIM? :)

Thanks for clarifying some things. I did read through the thread maybe just not far enough, lol. But I totally agree with you. I myself am not sure I could ever get an abortion, but I am still pro-choice.

I believe pro-life, if you don't want your kid then place it for adoption, plenty of women out there would love to have a child

Thanks for clarifying some things. I did read through the thread maybe just not far enough, lol. But I totally agree with you. I myself am not sure I could ever get an abortion, but I am still pro-choice.
You're welcome!!! You'll find that I'm usually a very reasonable and easy to love girl. :) Most of the women on here like me. :lol
I understand being pro-choice but not thinking you'd have an abortion yourself.
I understand (or try my best to) everybody POV.

I believe pro-life, if you don't want your kid then place it for adoption, plenty of women out there would love to have a child
:hugs I understand and agree.
I don't want this to turn into a debate on points of view, however...
I wanted to know what people thought of changing your views even if you've had an abortion in the past, for whatever reason. (Mine being medical).
:hugs

I have written so many papers on Pro-life and if you want I can definitely show you some pictures that go along with stories like these. I know its not everyones first choice to see em but believe me it definitely puts a new spin on things

I have written so many papers on Pro-life and if you want I can definitely show you some pictures that go along with stories like these. I know its not everyones first choice to see em but believe me it definitely puts a new spin on things
PLEASE...do NOT post those pictures on here. I have seen many and they are very disturbing...
Lots of women already said they felt sick after reading my thread and didn't further comment because of it. :(
I feel bad enough w/o pictures. :lol
But it does sure put a spin on thing, doesn't it? Those pictures are indescribable.

Being hypocritical is doing one thing and saying another.

You're always free to change your mind.

I don't believe that.
Number one, they inject the fetus with heart stopping medication and it feels nothing, number 2, she didn't even use proper terminology. It seems much like the pictures, inflammatory to get an emotional response, which worked. In most states, abortions beyond a certain point are illegal except for medical reasons. And, intact D&X are not common, at all.

:hugs I understand and agree.
I don't want this to turn into a debate on points of view, however...
I wanted to know what people thought of changing your views even if you've had an abortion in the past, for whatever reason. (Mine being medical).
:hugs

Well, I can pretty much assure you that intact D&Xs are performed for medical reasons as well. Are you still against them?

I don't believe that.
Number one, they inject the fetus with heart stopping medication and it feels nothing, number 2, she didn't even use proper terminology. It seems much like the pictures, inflammatory to get an emotional response, which worked. In most states, abortions beyond a certain point are illegal except for medical reasons. And, intact D&X are not common, at all.
You are very educated and correct! :yes
I just was stating that this story jerked my heart and made me re-think my views on things. :) That's all.

Well, I can pretty much assure you that intact D&Xs are performed for medical reasons as well. Are you still against them?
I have decided I am pro-life for MYSELF.
I am not against any body else's decisions or opinions, no. I'm not close minded like that. :)

I wish I had never seen that.

You are very educated and correct! :yes
I just was stating that this story jerked my heart and made me re-think my views on things. :) That's all.

It was meant to, so it did its job. It was probably written by a man, an avid antichoicer.

i have NEVER meant anyone thats been like "YAY! I HAD AN ABORTION!!! WHOOO!" i know there is that like once or rare slut thats had like fifty already but most women it kills them, and i think its because one its socially unacceptable something very "taboo" and two, its something about that maternal instinct that we have in all of us. I think its very alright that you changed how you feel the matter, espically going through the experience and now going through the positive expereince of keeping it.

Reading that made me soo sad :( Why dont these women just give the babies up for adoption :( :(

I did a project on the topic of partial-birth abortions in nursing school. It was horribly hard, and we had some students need to leave the lecture hall.

:hugs

It was meant to, so it did its job. It was probably written by a man, an avid antichoicer.

This particular bulletin may or may not be completely accurate, but I would say that not only men are anti-choice/anti-abortion. As others have said, KelsEllie, you certainly have a right to change your stance. Just is a part of your journey as a person.

All of the hard core pro life site all have the worst possible senarios on them. Thats all I am gonna say.

I got to the "6 months preg" and stopped reading. Like I said in the other post, I had no feeling on the subject before. But after having a baby at 6 months, I am adamantly against it for any reason. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for it to be legal.

But I am also still pro-choice up to a certain gestation.

I just read about partial-birth abortion on wikipedia and it is exactly as described..

I'm having different views about abortion now, too. a lot of thinking to do.

I have decided I am pro-life for MYSELF.
I am not against any body else's decisions or opinions, no. I'm not close minded like that. :)

That's still pro-choice.

You're fully entitled to your opinions and your fully entitled to change them - it doesn't make you a hypocrite at all.

I don't think it makes you a hypocritical bitch. I think it means your are still growing as a person with these new experiences, and your views are changing accordingly.

:yes i agree with kristen. you're changing and maturing, and your ideas and opinions change as you do those things.

I think partial birth abortions are disgusting and should be avoided.
The thing about the 6 week abortion made me sadder, but didnt change my mind. I'm not going to do it myself, but I'm not going to be like "did you know your baby cringed when you did that!?"

Youre not horrible for having a change of mind! Everybody changes...

Partial Birth Abortion is murder plain and simple there isn't 2 ways about it in my book... that child was kicking and everything and he was killed. It sickens me :no
I think it is fine to change your views on anything. It shows you are thinking things through in a different light.

You ladies are disappointing me. I know someone who had to have an intact D&X. At the time she already had two small children at home. She was in her third trimester when it was realized that there was a major problem with the pregnancy.

It became apparent that it was have the intact D&X or they will most likely lose both the mother and baby. It was one of the of hardest decisions I have seen someone make and one of the worst experiences I have ever seen someone go through. However, would it have been fair to make her go to term and risk her life whenever she had two small children already who needed their mother?

It was not an easy decision for that family to make nor was it made lightly. These are the ONLY types of situations where these abortions are done. Had this procedure been made illegal her children would have grown up without their mother. Does that seem fair or right?

I've always felt that partial birth abortion was wrong.

As for an ealier abortion. I used to be pro-choice.

That is until I had an abortion myself. I'm not telling you this so that people can tell me how terrible I am, I'm just telling you this so you realize you are completely allowed to change your mind. Life changes a person.

It is interesting how you can go through the whole process knowing it is the right thing to do. You convince yourself and the nurses (they ask you a lot of questions to make sure you are making the right choice) that it is the right thing to do, but the moment it was over with, I felt terrible. The nurses gave me a little stone to remember my child. I think about my child every year on the day it was due not to mention just about every day. How can a caring person not?

All I have to say is that, once you have been through an experience like that it makes you re-evaluate. I'm now pro-life, but I'm also someone who believes the government should stay out of our business. Honestly, I think this is a ruling for the church. The church should be out there informing young girls like the girl I was 5 years ago about the effects of this so called "procedure."

It is much more than a procedure, it is a life altering event for you and and a life-ending event for your baby.

that's so sad. so sad that words can't even begin to express.

I had my first U/S @ 12 weeks, and I saw a BABY in my belly; I had NO IDEA that I would be able to see a BABY so soon, but I did. My baby was sucking his thumb too! NOW, at six months, I KNEW I was having a boy. DAMN, I don't even know what to say. That's HORRIBLE!

someone posted about partial abortions a while ago. It breaks my heart that someone would practice that and acually do that procedure. It breaks my heart that a woman could acually go through with something like that. I can understand to a point and early abortion. But to deliver a baby at 6 months or later and have it killed in the manner is just baffling to me. YOu felt that baby kick and move inside you. How on earth could you (general) do something like that? I don't understand why you couldn't just give the baby up upon birth or even give birth and then look your baby in the eyes and hold it, to realize you can make it work. Babies don't choose who their parents are and to just kill them at 6 months like that breaks my heart :sadeyes

**don't flame me for anything I have said. It's just my opinion on this situation**

Man...I wish I never read that. That brought tears to my eyes. :tears

Disgusting on both the womans part and the dr's.

And I agree, your just learning & growing so no, that doesn't make you a hypocrite. I used to be pro-choice but I am now pro-life. I don't hold it against anyone who has had an abortion or chooses to have one, but that's how I feel for myself.

Although I am prochoice I think partial birth abortions are sick! I am prochoice but only for the first trimester.

Wow, i felt sick just reading it.

i don't find you to be a hypocrite, some just learn to change thru life experiences.

You can be pro-choice and still be very anti-late term abortion. I don't know a single person who thinks that is okay.

I cannot finish reading that...

Hypocritical bitch? No. We all change our minds and values as we mature.
To post that very descriptive thing though was just not thought out clearly.
I've had an abortion and that still made me sick.

I am and always be pro-choice.

i do not believe that changing your veiws on anything makes you or anyone hypocritical. if you were to say one thing and then do another, that is more along the lines of being a hypocrit in my mind. i have gone back and forth on the subject of abortion so many times, and know that for me right now, it is not something that i could do unless it was an extreme circumstance. i have known people who have had them for various reasons, mainly medical. i have a hard time understanding them being used as a form of bc. i know a girl who has had several and it is such a waste of life. i for sure do not agree with late term abortion either. although the OP was not easy to read, i have done some research on the subject, and have read things containing much more graphic discriptions, including a paper written by a late term abortion survivor.

all this being said, i have not really been in a position where i have had to make this choice....i did panic with my youngest and all sorts of thoughts went through my head, but there is not a day that i don't thank god he is here.

There's a whole foundation dedicated to women who have had abortions and then changed their mind about it. It's called Project Rachel and it's a great organization. So I'd say not only are you not a hypocrite, you are not alone.

i just got sick reading that

Same here. That just killed me to read that.

Umm maybe I'm wrong, but I thought there were laws on that kinda thing and I thought 6 months was a lil too late to have an abortion... :shrug Although I don't know when the exact "cut off" is, I'm sure it's not at 6 months, ya know? Anyway, like someone said before... Just don't believe EVERYTHING you see on Myspace. People like attention and will say/do just about anything to get it. Very sad story though...

Umm maybe I'm wrong, but I thought there were laws on that kinda thing and I thought 6 months was a lil too late to have an abortion... :shrug Although I don't know when the exact "cut off" is, I'm sure it's not at 6 months, ya know? Anyway, like someone said before... Just don't believe EVERYTHING you see on Myspace. People like attention and will say/do just about anything to get it. Very sad story though...

Late-term abortions at 21 weeks or later account for 1.4% of all abortions in the USA.[11] Intact D&X procedures are used in approximately 15% of those late-term abortion cases. This is the equivalent of between 2,500 and 3,000 per year, using data from the Alan Guttmacher Institute for the year 2000. They are typically performed between the twentieth and twenty-fourth week of pregnancy

24 weeks is 6 months

Laws to ban this uniquely controversial late-term abortion procedure have been passed in at least thirty states, including: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia and Wisconsin. The Utah statute applies only after viability (as defined by the statute). Additionally, Massachusetts and Indiana have a specific ban on state funding of these procedures.

It's not illegal everywhere.

No, it wouldn't make you a hypocrite - it would make you a more informed decision maker.

omg omg omg i hope to god that story isn't true, i hope someone made it up for effect.
:tears
no you're not a hypocrit. people have the right to change their views.

24 weeks is 6 months



It's not illegal everywhere.

My bad... Didn't read all the posts... But I guess that's a good thing that Idk, huh?

You can be pro-choice and against partial birth abortions you know. But I'm going to say that if you took advantage of that choice when it was available for you and now you say that others shouldn't be given the same choice that you had... then yeah that is hypocritical.

But from what you are saying it sounds like you are still pro-choice, but that you personally believe abortion is wrong. That is still pro-choice.

People grow and change all of the time. I once was pro life now I am pro choice.

I doubt the truth of that nurses story because partial birth abortion is a political term it is not a medical term. A nurse would use a medical term not the made up version that congressmen/women used when debating the banning late term abortions. DRs that testified at the proceedings explained to congress that the term did/does not exist but partial birth is more sensational so the pro life groups continue to misuse it.

Also it accounts for about 1.4% of all abortions in America. It is not used because a Mother does not want to be a Mother. It is used in extreme cases such as the fetus has died, the fetus has deformities/abnormalities that can not allow it to survive out of the womb, the Mother's life is in danger, etc. It is not done because a woman just doesn't want the baby. In most cases it just does not work that way despite what pro life extreme advocates want people to believe. The correct term is intact D&X.

:yes

A lot of women change their views on abortion once they have one. You know the woman in Roe Vs. Wade I had heard had become pro-life (Norma McCorvey). People can change their minds and you're not a hypocrite for doing so.

Abortion is NOT a pretty thing, it's not just some harmless procedure for the baby and I can see why anyone would want to change their mind on it being ok.

Thanks for all of the input and opinions, ladies.
And once again-to those of you who got sick reading that and didn't realize the information that it contained, I'm sorry.
That's why I wrote the warning at the top...:hugs

I am just so heart sick right now almost to the point of tears. God bless you for changing your mind.

I have not read the whole thread. Reading that does not change my views, I am pro-choice, my views/opinions on being pro-choice will not change.

I have not read the whole thread. Reading that does not change my views, I am pro-choice, my views/opinions on being pro-choice will not change.

:) That's absolutely fine! I didn't post it to change any body's opinions. I posted it and stated it took a small PART in why I changed mine. :yes

Well, I don't trust half the shit that goes through myspace, I suppose you just have to use better judgment on what you think it real or not.

I don't think I can comment on the rest.

partial birth abortion is very real! as just as sick as it sounds! i have done my research on it because I just couldn't believe that anyone could allow that to be legal... but unfortunately I was wrong.

After everything I have read and researched, I am not sure I believe the part about the 6 week old. I am pretty sure they aren't even called fetuses at 6 weeks of gestation.

My uncles ex wife had one at about 5 1/2 months . She did it because she wanted to hurt my uncle . She told me about all the details :sick,this article was pretty accurate.

I am pro choice ,but I am against partial birth abortions!

My uncles ex wife had one at about 5 1/2 months . She did it because she wanted to hurt my uncle . She told me about all the details :sick,this article was pretty accurate.

I am pro choice ,but I am against partial birth abortions!

Oh, that is just awful. Oh goodness. I'm sorry you had to listen to that bitch tell you that shit. :hugs

change your mind all you want...what's most important is that choices exist so that you are able to change your mind.

I think it's stupid for a woman to get an abortion when she's 6 months pregnant. What, she couldn't have done it sooner? I think abortion is wrong after the first trimester. But a few weeks into it, I think it's fine, I'm prochoice when it comes to that.

I don't think it'll make you a hypocrite. What's in the past is in the past, now you have different views. It's kinda like being an anti smoker when you used to smoke, you know think it's wrong even though you did it before. Lol I hope I made sense.

I think it's stupid for a woman to get an abortion when she's 6 months pregnant. What, she couldn't have done it sooner? I think abortion is wrong after the first trimester. But a few weeks into it, I think it's fine, I'm prochoice when it comes to that.

I don't think it'll make you a hypocrite. What's in the past is in the past, now you have different views. It's kinda like being an anti smoker when you used to smoke, you know think it's wrong even though you did it before. Lol I hope I made sense.

That did make sense. :)

After everything I have read and researched, I am not sure I believe the part about the 6 week old. I am pretty sure they aren't even called fetuses at 6 weeks of gestation.

I didn't read the article and I'm not going to read the article...I already know more than I want to know about Intact D&X...but to answer you're question the way I'm reading it...

you're right, 6 weeks gestation is still considered an embryo.

Oh, that is just awful. Oh goodness. I'm sorry you had to listen to that bitch tell you that shit. :hugs

I just couldn't believe it was true when everyone told me what she did. So I asked her and she told me details :pukey I just don't understand how she could be so heartless:no

I just couldn't believe it was true when everyone told me what she did. So I asked her and she told me details :pukey I just don't understand how she could be so heartless:no
:tears I am sorry, hon.
I can see if it was ABSOLUTELY necessary to her health or something of the sort.
But to HURT her SO??? Sickening.

Wow, ladies. I am shocked...You have done the RIGHT thing in changing your stance. I understand that you don't want to push your opinions on other people.... However, you do have a responsibility to tell the truth to other people who don't have the same stance...

I ran the L&D O.R. at NMCSD. I have delivered EXTREMELY premature babies. I have been involved with ultrasounds as early as 8 weeks! That baby kicks, breaths, feels...It is very VERY real, and a very ugly truth to what people will do. You can not be against partial birth and be pro choice. Abortion is abortion. People make the choice to end that tiny like up until the moment it takes it's first breath out of the womb. Technically it is not considered a baby, by law, until it takes it's first breath out of the womb. Pro life people are not against abortion that is medically needed, meaning that the mother will die unless the baby is terminated....Please, PLEASE don't confuse that ladies! Whether or not the story actually happened to that woman, that is how it happens. It's horrible, it's grotesque, but it's the truth. We all have a responsibility to be educated on what is happening daily in our country because of UNWANTED pregnancies, not because of medical complications.

You ARE NOT a hypocrite, you would only be a hypocrite if you did not share what you know with people who are ignorant of the facts...

P.S. I had an ultrasound at 9 weeks with my daughter. She did NOT like the pressure of the ultrasound wand and tried to move away from it...TRUTH...

Oh and by the way, most people in the medical field, myself included, tend to use terms that people know and recognize so that our points can be understood by those NOT in the medical field...

Wow, ladies. I am shocked...You have done the RIGHT thing in changing your stance. I understand that you don't want to push your opinions on other people.... However, you do have a responsibility to tell the truth to other people who don't have the same stance...

I ran the L&D O.R. at NMCSD. I have delivered EXTREMELY premature babies. I have been involved with ultrasounds as early as 8 weeks! That baby kicks, breaths, feels...It is very VERY real, and a very ugly truth to what people will do. You can not be against partial birth and be pro choice. Abortion is abortion. People make the choice to end that tiny like up until the moment it takes it's first breath out of the womb. Technically it is not considered a baby, by law, until it takes it's first breath out of the womb. Pro life people are not against abortion that is medically needed, meaning that the mother will die unless the baby is terminated....Please, PLEASE don't confuse that ladies! Whether or not the story actually happened to that woman, that is how it happens. It's horrible, it's grotesque, but it's the truth. We all have a responsibility to be educated on what is happening daily in our country because of UNWANTED pregnancies, not because of medical complications.

You ARE NOT a hypocrite, you would only be a hypocrite if you did not share what you know with people who are ignorant of the facts...

P.S. I had an ultrasound at 9 weeks with my daughter. She did NOT like the pressure of the ultrasound wand and tried to move away from it...TRUTH...

Oh and by the way, most people in the medical field, myself included, tend to use terms that people know and recognize so that our points can be understood by those NOT in the medical field...


Yes, you can. How do I know? Because I AM. I dont care what field you work in, you have no right to tell anyone what they can and cannot believe. I am pro-choice for 1st trimester abortions, but after that I draw the line.

I am not telling anyone what to believe, just telling the truth about what happens. You don't have to like the truth. No one does...

Wow, ladies. I am shocked...You have done the RIGHT thing in changing your stance. I understand that you don't want to push your opinions on other people.... However, you do have a responsibility to tell the truth to other people who don't have the same stance...

I ran the L&D O.R. at NMCSD. I have delivered EXTREMELY premature babies. I have been involved with ultrasounds as early as 8 weeks! That baby kicks, breaths, feels...It is very VERY real, and a very ugly truth to what people will do. You can not be against partial birth and be pro choice. Abortion is abortion. People make the choice to end that tiny like up until the moment it takes it's first breath out of the womb. Technically it is not considered a baby, by law, until it takes it's first breath out of the womb. Pro life people are not against abortion that is medically needed, meaning that the mother will die unless the baby is terminated....Please, PLEASE don't confuse that ladies! Whether or not the story actually happened to that woman, that is how it happens. It's horrible, it's grotesque, but it's the truth. We all have a responsibility to be educated on what is happening daily in our country because of UNWANTED pregnancies, not because of medical complications.

You ARE NOT a hypocrite, you would only be a hypocrite if you did not share what you know with people who are ignorant of the facts...

P.S. I had an ultrasound at 9 weeks with my daughter. She did NOT like the pressure of the ultrasound wand and tried to move away from it...TRUTH...

Oh and by the way, most people in the medical field, myself included, tend to use terms that people know and recognize so that our points can be understood by those NOT in the medical field...

I am pro choice and by no means ignorant just because I can understand there is a medical need at times for an intact D&X to be performed. Your whole post reads with a very condescending tone.

Not intended to be condescending, but it is a very painful subject. Seen it first hand. It's horrifying. But like I said in my statement, medical reasons are not the same....

Don't argue, ladies...the point of my post was to find out what you thought of changing your views if you had had an abortion before. It was not meant to be a debate about pro-life and pro-choice, abortion, or anything of the sort.
FC Wifey may have sounded a bit harsh in her post, but quite a few other women have, too. The way I read it, she said all of those things because so many women in this thread either A) Had no idea partial-birth abortion was a fact of life or B) Didn't believe the story in my OP. It is a real story, whether that person who wrote it went through it or not. I don't want anybody to fight about this, please, respect my thread. Thank you. :)

Wow, ladies. I am shocked...You have done the RIGHT thing in changing your stance. I understand that you don't want to push your opinions on other people.... However, you do have a responsibility to tell the truth to other people who don't have the same stance...

I ran the L&D O.R. at NMCSD. I have delivered EXTREMELY premature babies. I have been involved with ultrasounds as early as 8 weeks! That baby kicks, breaths, feels...It is very VERY real, and a very ugly truth to what people will do. You can not be against partial birth and be pro choice. Abortion is abortion. People make the choice to end that tiny like up until the moment it takes it's first breath out of the womb. Technically it is not considered a baby, by law, until it takes it's first breath out of the womb. Pro life people are not against abortion that is medically needed, meaning that the mother will die unless the baby is terminated....Please, PLEASE don't confuse that ladies! Whether or not the story actually happened to that woman, that is how it happens. It's horrible, it's grotesque, but it's the truth. We all have a responsibility to be educated on what is happening daily in our country because of UNWANTED pregnancies, not because of medical complications.

You ARE NOT a hypocrite, you would only be a hypocrite if you did not share what you know with people who are ignorant of the facts...

P.S. I had an ultrasound at 9 weeks with my daughter. She did NOT like the pressure of the ultrasound wand and tried to move away from it...TRUTH...

Oh and by the way, most people in the medical field, myself included, tend to use terms that people know and recognize so that our points can be understood by those NOT in the medical field...

That is really not up for you to say what someone should and should not believe. Being in the medical field myself (in L&D, btw) does not give me the right or reason to tell people whether they can be pro-choice or not just because I know how the procedure works.

I'm kind of put off by this post. I'm hoping you will clarify

I am pro choice and by no means ignorant just because I can understand there is a medical need at times for an intact D&X to be performed. Your whole post reads with a very condescending tone.

I have to agree

I really respect your decision to put yourself out there. You are very brave!

Thank you. And thanks everybody else, as well. :)

I think I all ready put out there I am not telling anyone how they should feel, trying to put the facts out there because there are A LOT of people who don't know. Obviously you do since you said you are in L&D. My statement does not really pertain to you personally. I have all ready apologized if I came across rude or condescending. I hope I don't have to do it all night. I just think that everyone should know. I really don't know what else to say. I think my post kinda flared some people's passions. I know my were flared. I am passionate about this topic and I can not apologize for that. I am not making a personal cut at anyone. My statements are for those who were moved by what was said and are contemplating changing their stance.

Whether you are pro-choice or not, that (the OP) is exactly how a partial birth abortion/intact D&X is performed. Look it up.

Whether you are pro-choice or not, that (the OP) is exactly how a partial birth abortion/intact D&X is performed. Look it up.

:yes Yes it is, indeed.
I've known that for years. It just never really disturbed me quite the way it does, now. It was always horrible to read and know about. Just something struck me differently this time.

:yes Yes it is, indeed.
I've known that for years. It just never really disturbed me quite the way it does, now. It was always horrible to read and know about. Just something struck me differently this time.

I agree. It struck me differently when I had a baby that was still young enough to be able to have that done. I cant even wrap my mind around it.

Yes, you can. How do I know? Because I AM. I dont care what field you work in, you have no right to tell anyone what they can and cannot believe. I am pro-choice for 1st trimester abortions, but after that I draw the line.

:agree

It doesn't make you a hypocrite at all. It just means you've changed your views.

Reading up on saline abortions just now.......I think the person meant to say 16 weeks of pregnancy. It's terrible and done after 16 weeks. It burns the baby and the mother goes into labor and delivers :no

I'm pro-choice but only before 8 weeks, period!

People grow and change all of the time. I once was pro life now I am pro choice.

I doubt the truth of that nurses story because partial birth abortion is a political term it is not a medical term. A nurse would use a medical term not the made up version that congressmen/women used when debating the banning late term abortions. DRs that testified at the proceedings explained to congress that the term did/does not exist but partial birth is more sensational so the pro life groups continue to misuse it.

Also it accounts for about 1.4% of all abortions in America. It is not used because a Mother does not want to be a Mother. It is used in extreme cases such as the fetus has died, the fetus has deformities/abnormalities that can not allow it to survive out of the womb, the Mother's life is in danger, etc. It is not done because a woman just doesn't want the baby. In most cases it just does not work that way despite what pro life extreme advocates want people to believe. The correct term is intact D&X.


:yes ty for pointing this out

I think the bulletin is true...at least the first part. I took a class on controversial ethical issues and we were given articles from both sides of the argument- legitimate articles, although obviously they were biased- and this was on one of the websites. It's on the nrlc.org website.
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/pbacampaign.html