http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12521196/

:rolleyes

No comment

:neutral No comment as of now either.

I have very little respect for most celebrities that this doesn’t shock me. I don’t support it. English is our official language until it’s changed. It’s infuriating to me when people come here and don’t try to learn the language and expect us to cater to them.

But there are lots of songs in several languages. And I just choose not to listen.

These 3 quotes stood out and meant the most to me:


"I'm really appalled. . . . We are not a bilingual nation," "When people are talking about becoming a part of this country, they should assimilate to the norm that's already here," Taplin said. "What we're talking about here is a sovereign nation with our ideals and our national identity, and that [anthem] is one of the icons of our nation's identity. I believe it should be in English as it was penned."

"I'm a second-generation American," Layton said. "I love my country, and I love my [Mexican musical] heritage, and I try to keep it alive. But some things are sacred that you don't do. And translating the national anthem is one of them."


"Transforming the musical idiom of The Star-Spangled Banner" is one thing, argue the skeptics, but translating the words sends the opposite message: We are not Americans.

i think its a good thing.
we are a nation that speaks more than one language and reading the lyrics, this song sounds like a nice way to show some sort of unity

trust me, i am all for a certain level of assimilation, but at the same time, if we want to remain a nation that can pride itself on being a haven for the opressed and the way of a better life, we need to be more tolerant. i think that is something the US has always stood for, and i would hate to see that stop.



i am annoyed that they asked El Zol, i hate that station, Infinity Broadcasting got rid of my FAVORITE station to put El Zol in. haha. i hate it, but thats a diff issue

yah, I saw that on the news last night. I definitely dont agree with that....if people want to come over and live here thats great, but they do need to learn the star spangled banner in the original language that it was created for. Even the mexican people that were interviewed about it last night didnt think it was a great idea.

i think its a good thing.
we are a nation that speaks more than one language and reading the lyrics, this song sounds like a nice way to show some sort of unity

trust me, i am all for a certain level of assimilation, but at the same time, if we want to remain a nation that can pride itself on being a haven for the opressed and the way of a better life, we need to be more tolerant. i think that is something the US has always stood for, and i would hate to see that stop.



i am annoyed that they asked El Zol, i hate that station, Infinity Broadcasting got rid of my FAVORITE station to put El Zol in. haha. i hate it, but thats a diff issue

yah...I definitely see your point! :)

:rolleyes What else?

It was written in english as a poem of Francis Scott Key's thoughts, he did not intend for it to become the anthem, it is a great piece of history we have. but i dont see the sacred aspect really. and i am not at all Un American or not Patriotic.

In my opinion this song is something that does not need to be messed with. I was watching the news earlier and they said they are actually changing some words to protest the immigration acts that are trying to be passed. In my opinion you come to America..you become an American. My DH's family are from Italy but when they came to America they became Americans. They speak Italian in their own homes to each other but they speak ENGLISH in public. I think this quote by Teddy Roosevelt says it best. And I'm not trying to start a debate this is just my opinion lol

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Thank you USCGWife05!

don't agree with it either

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

AMEN!!!

that quote is 100 years old.
times are changing.

i think it is totally acceptable to translate anything anyone wants to translate. if the anthem being in a language the immigrants speak can get them to KNOW the anthem and learn more about America then I am all for it.

really, what is the big deal? why do Americans for some reason act as if they are any better than anyone else?

In my opinion this song is something that does not need to be messed with. I was watching the news earlier and they said they are actually changing some words to protest the immigration acts that are trying to be passed. In my opinion you come to America..you become an American. My DH's family are from Italy but when they came to America they became Americans. They speak Italian in their own homes to each other but they speak ENGLISH in public. I think this quote by Teddy Roosevelt says it best. And I'm not trying to start a debate this is just my opinion lol

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907


I could not agree more, this is "the melting pot" nto the "mixing bowl".

I dont think I'm better and I would never expect another nation to change thier song/belief/culture/language......for us.

I don't like the idea of it either. I don't think by thinking that the Star Spangled Banner should be in English only is making Americans look like we're better than everyone else. I think even though that quote by Roosevelt is 100 years old, it still shows what it is to be an American today. Times change, but some things should hold true and stay the same no matter how much time goes by... and I think one of those things is our National Anthem. Translating it for people who speak Spanish is one thing, but to record it and publicize it is another.

I could not agree more, this is "the melting pot" nto the "mixing bowl".

actually, more recently the term has shifted to be the "salad bowl" in middle schools today they are taught the nature of both terms as the US is a place that you can move to and get a better life without losing a sense of culture and self.

why are you okay with chinese food restaurants in every strip mall? how about sushi, or many other foods? if we have full assimilation where would there be diversity and new ideas and cultural experiences.

this country is an amazing place that you can walk down one street of a city and experience Chinese Culture and then turn the corner and be in a neighborhood where you are plunged into the culture of Poland or another nation. It is a great thing. It is the very nature of why I THINK America is wonderful

that quote is 100 years old.
times are changing.

i think it is totally acceptable to translate anything anyone wants to translate. if the anthem being in a language the immigrants speak can get them to KNOW the anthem and learn more about America then I am all for it.

really, what is the big deal? why do Americans for some reason act as if they are any better than anyone else?

I don't think anyone is really trying to say Americans are better then anyone else, we are just saying that we want to maintain our AMERICAN identity, and to most of us that includes our language, our flag, our National Anthem, just to name a few. I am all for immigration, but when these people leave their country to come here they should not expect the majority to cater to them. If they are truely fleeing a bad life, and looking for a better life in America then I would think they would want to assimilate into mainstream American culture. They CHOSE to come here, no one FORCED them, if they don't want to learn English, they have every right in the world to stay in their own country or move to a different country that speaks their language.

ETA: I don't think that assimilation has to be complete and total, I am all for these people maintaining their own culture in their own home or in areas where their culture is the mainstream "little italy" etc. I think the diversity of culture is truely amazing as well, but I also think there has to be a common thread to hold it all together, and that is the American culture, I think as we shift more to this "mixing bowl" attitude, people are forgetting that they have to pick up the American way of life a little as well as maintaining their own cultural identity. I would like to see a balance of both. I have no problem with these people speaking whatever language they want to in their own home or with their friends, but in public work places, and schools, and when talking on a National scale (I.E. things like the National Anthem) I think these things should all have a common language that unites us as a country and that to me is English. Take Europe for example who until recentely every time you crossed a country border you could not only be speaking a different language but could be using a completely different currency as well, is that the direction that America is headed? Are we going to let immigrants from other countries maintain their cultural identities to the point that we end up with hundreds of smaller coutries within one and lose the American culture all together??

that quote is 100 years old.
times are changing.

i think it is totally acceptable to translate anything anyone wants to translate. if the anthem being in a language the immigrants speak can get them to KNOW the anthem and learn more about America then I am all for it.

really, what is the big deal? why do Americans for some reason act as if they are any better than anyone else?


I personally do not feel as if I am better than anyone else because I am American. Simply put I am proud of being an American. I am proud everytime I look at the American flag. I am proud everytime I hear the Star Spangled Banner. I am proud everytime I see my husband put on his uniform to go to work.

Now as for that quote that quote should still apply today. You want to come to America? Then be an American. If you like your own country so much and have so much pride then STAY THERE. No one forces anyone to move to this country. You have a choice...Stay in your own country or come to America and be an American.

Now as for this song. This translation is not a true "translation". They are CHANGING WORDS and COMPLETE PHRASES in it to protest the Immigration Acts, that is wrong! Francis Scott Key wrote this as a poem true...but you know what he didn't write this poem for people to completely change the words to suit what they believe.

Me personally? I feel our borders should be completely closed down to those who are illegally here. If you want to come to America do it LEGALLY. I have no problem with immigrants. I do have a problem with illegal aliens.

And once again this is all just my opinion and I'm not trying to offend anyone but I do feel strongly about my country,my flag, and my National Anthem. And the "you" in what I'm saying about immigrants is not directed at you ash87. it's a generalized you. just wanted to clear that up. :)

I personally do not feel as if I am better than anyone else because I am American. Simply put I am proud of being an American. I am proud everytime I look at the American flag. I am proud everytime I hear the Star Spangled Banner. I am proud everytime I see my husband put on his uniform to go to work.

Now as for that quote that quote should still apply today. You want to come to America? Then be an American. If you like your own country so much and have so much pride then STAY THERE. No one forces anyone to move to this country. You have a choice...Stay in your own country or come to America and be an American.

Now as for this song. This translation is not a true "translation". They are CHANGING WORDS and COMPLETE PHRASES in it to protest the Immigration Acts, that is wrong! Francis Scott Key wrote this as a poem true...but you know what he didn't write this poem for people to completely change the words to suit what they believe.

Me personally? I feel our borders should be completely closed down to those who are illegally here. If you want to come to America do it LEGALLY. I have no problem with immigrants. I do have a problem with illegal aliens.

And once again this is all just my opinion and I'm not trying to offend anyone but I do feel strongly about my country,my flag, and my National Anthem. And the "you" in what I'm saying about immigrants is not directed at you ash87. it's a generalized you. just wanted to clear that up. :)

:agree Wonderfully said uscgwife! I agree 100%

can someone define for me "American"?

"American- Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture."

NOT the country one came from.

can someone define for me "American"?


if you truely need that defined for you then your husband needs to find another job

if you truely need that defined for you then your husband needs to find another job

nevermind

American- Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.

NOT the country they came from.


:agree

My family is a big mix. My father is mostly Native American(Creek Indian Tribe) with Scottish thrown in there. My mother is Irish,German,Jewish and a little bit of Cherokee. But above all we are Americans. When my mother's family came to this country they chose to be American and put that above everything they were before.

nevermind

personal attacks huh:thinking

if you truely need that defined for you then your husband needs to find another job

im not married...??

and if i was married to a sailor why would he need a new job?


and i am curious what YOUR definition is. everyone has a different reason to be proud to be an American and everyone has a different idea of what it MEANS to be an American.

"American- Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture."

NOT the country one came from.


RELATING to, not becoming....

im not trying to make you all hate me, we all know i have very differing views typically from most of the people on this site.

I think the immigrants, whether they know english or not, whether they want to primarily speak their native language or not, have a pride in America, or they wouldn't have come here

actually, more recently the term has shifted to be the "salad bowl" in middle schools today they are taught the nature of both terms as the US is a place that you can move to and get a better life without losing a sense of culture and self.

why are you okay with chinese food restaurants in every strip mall? how about sushi, or many other foods? if we have full assimilation where would there be diversity and new ideas and cultural experiences.

this country is an amazing place that you can walk down one street of a city and experience Chinese Culture and then turn the corner and be in a neighborhood where you are plunged into the culture of Poland or another nation. It is a great thing. It is the very nature of why I THINK America is wonderful

Yes, there is alot of cultural diversity here in America. I applaud any immigrant that comes here to share their culture. But do it Legally. We as a country stand for freedom. We also live by the standards of the Constitution. We set up a government with laws that are Voted on. Illegal Aliens can not vote. They do not pay taxes. How much money are they earning to send back to their own countries to help their families? Money that could be earned by Americans - Born or Naturalized. Our country IS a melting pot - but there are laws to protect Everyone. If one does not want to go thru the 'hassel' of doing it the right way, then get out. BUT, if one wants to become an American, there are steps to take.
If I decided to become a citizen of Canada (I'm not thinking of doing that), there would be a process I would have to go thru. You have to speak French or English. http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_CANADA.html
If I wanted to become a citizen of Mexico(I'm not thinking of doing that either), there would be a process I would have to go thru. You are required bo be able so speak Spanish http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_MEXICO.html
Laws exists in protect citizens.

side note, i used to know the Pledge of Allegiance in spanish. my spanish teacher in high school was from Peru and that is how she recited it. she told us that she loved America and was a citizen and so happy to be here, but she would say things that mattered, like her prayers and the pledge of allegiance in the language that is closest to her heart, because the important things that she holds dear to her heart, need to be said in the way that she feels the most for. and i think that is great

Yes, there is alot of cultural diversity here in America. I applaud any immigrant that comes here to share their culture. But do it Legally. We as a country stand for freedom. We also live by the standards of the Constitution. We set up a government with laws that are Voted on. Illegal Aliens can not vote. They do not pay taxes. How much money are they earning to send back to their own countries to help their families? Money that could be earned by Americans - Born or Naturalized. Our country IS a melting pot - but there are laws to protect Everyone. If one does not want to go thru the 'hassel' of doing it the right way, then get out. BUT, if one wants to become an American, there are steps to take.
If I decided to become a citizen of Canada (I'm not thinking of doing that), there would be a process I would have to go thru. You have to speak French or English. http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_CANADA.html
If I wanted to become a citizen of Mexico(I'm not thinking of doing that either), there would be a process I would have to go thru. You are required bo be able so speak Spanish http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_MEXICO.html
Laws exists in protect citizens.


i agree people should try and obtain legal citizenship, but in bring their culture, why can they not sing a song that we all hold so dear in their language?

i agree people should try and obtain legal citizenship, but in bring their culture, why can they not sing a song that we all hold so dear in their language?

If I decided to become a citizen of Canada (I'm not thinking of doing that), there would be a process I would have to go thru. You have to speak French or English. http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_CANADA.html
If I wanted to become a citizen of Mexico(I'm not thinking of doing that either), there would be a process I would have to go thru. You are required bo be able so speak Spanish http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_MEXICO.html
Laws exists in protect citizens.

That's great but you know what? If I move to say Germany I would not expect them to learn my language just so we could communicate.. If I move to another country then I would learn their language so I could communicate with them. Not make them learn mine. That's just my opinion.

i agree people should try and obtain legal citizenship, but in bring their culture, why can they not sing a song that we all hold so dear in their language?


Because they are changing the words to this particular song. Thats whats wrong with the whole thing.

If I decided to become a citizen of Canada (I'm not thinking of doing that), there would be a process I would have to go thru. You have to speak French or English. http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_CANADA.html
If I wanted to become a citizen of Mexico(I'm not thinking of doing that either), there would be a process I would have to go thru. You are required bo be able so speak Spanish http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_MEXICO.html
Laws exists in protect citizens.


and they should learn english, but being bi-lingual is a POSTIVE, in my opnion... and PROTECT YOU FROM WHAT?!

I'm not so sure everyone has a different idea of what it is to be an American. I'm an American because I was born in the USA and I live in the USA. It's in my culture and my language and in the people around me. It's the same thing as asking someone from Canada what it means to be a Canadian or someone from Italy what it means to be an Italian. It's my home.

That's great but you know what? If I move to say Germany I would not expect them to learn my language just so we could communicate.. If I move to another country then I would learn their language so I could communicate with them. Not make them learn mine. That's just my opinion.


have you been forced to learn spanish?

:neener RELATING to, not becoming....

im not trying to make you all hate me, we all know i have very differing views typically from most of the people on this site.

I think the immigrants, whether they know english or not, whether they want to primarily speak their native language or not, have a pride in America, or they wouldn't have come here

I don't know you real well, so please don't take this as being rude by any means, I'm just wondering, have you ever lived in an area highly populated by immigrants? because I have lived in Florida ALL my life, surrounded by immigrants from all over the world, and I have to disagree with you. The immigrants that come here and have a pride in America I have found to be the ones who assimilate into mainstream American culture, and learn English. The ones who don't learn our language or assimilate into mainstream culture what-so-ever tend to be the ones who live off welfare and take advantage of the system. I don't want to offend anyone, I have a lot of respect for people of other cultures, and their views. There are plent of immigrants who come to our country legally TRUELY looking for a better life, and I wish them all the best, and love to see their success in our country. But when it comes to things on a national scale like the National Anthem I put my foot down, it needs to stay in English.

have you been forced to learn spanish?


Actually yes I have. In school it was mandatory to learn Spanish. Which personally in my opinion is b.s. Why should I have to learn a new language for people coming to this country. I'm sorry this country is English speaking.

:neener

I don't know you real well, so please don't take this as being rude by any means, I'm just wondering, have you ever lived in an area highly populated by immigrants? because I have lived in Florida ALL my life, surrounded by immigrants from all over the world, and I have to disagree with you. The immigrants that come here and have a pride in America I have found to be the ones who assimilate into mainstream American culture, and learn English. The ones who don't learn our language or assimilate into mainstream culture what-so-ever tend to be the ones who live off welfare and take advantage of the system. I don't want to offend anyone, I have a lot of respect for people of other cultures, and their views. There are plent of immigrants who come to our country legally TRUELY looking for a better life, and I wish them all the best, and love to see their success in our country. But when it comes to things on a national scale like the National Anthem I put my foot down, it needs to stay in English.


i live in an area where there are a TON of immigrants.

and it is not like they are CHANGING the anthem, its not like next time you go to a baseball game you are going ot hear a spanish version. its not a replacement its an alternative.. why cnat you have yours, and spanish speaking people have theirs?

Actually yes I have. In school it was mandatory to learn Spanish. Which personally in my opinion is b.s. Why should I have to learn a new language for people coming to this country. I'm sorry this country is English speaking.

are you fluent? has a hispanic person approached you on the street and been rude if you didnt know spanish? the immigrants are not sitting back expecting you to cater to them. and honestly, we are one of the only nations in the world where are citizens are not bi-lingual and IMO, that is PATHETIC

I have very little respect for most celebrities that this doesn’t shock me. I don’t support it. English is our official language until it’s changed. It’s infuriating to me when people come here and don’t try to learn the language and expect us to cater to them.

But there are lots of songs in several languages. And I just choose not to listen.

These 3 quotes stood out and meant the most to me:


:agree

and it is not like they are CHANGING the anthem, its not like next time you go to a baseball game you are going ot hear a spanish version. its not a replacement its an alternative.. why cnat you have yours, and spanish speaking people have theirs?

this is from the article...

In the Spanish version, the translation of the first stanza is relatively faithful to the spirit of the original, though Kidron says the producers wanted to avoid references to bombs and rockets. Instead, there is "fierce combat." The translation of the more obscure second stanza is almost a rewrite, with phrases such as "we are equal, we are brothers."

An alternate version to be released next month includes a rap in English that never occurred to Francis Scott Key:

Let's not start a war

With all these hard workers

They can't help where they were born


They ARE changing it.. and that's why people are getting upset about it. It's not a straight translation so that people who don't speak English can hear what OUR true Star Spangled Banner says... it's a different version.

this is from the article...

In the Spanish version, the translation of the first stanza is relatively faithful to the spirit of the original, though Kidron says the producers wanted to avoid references to bombs and rockets. Instead, there is "fierce combat." The translation of the more obscure second stanza is almost a rewrite, with phrases such as "we are equal, we are brothers."

An alternate version to be released next month includes a rap in English that never occurred to Francis Scott Key:

Let's not start a war

With all these hard workers

They can't help where they were born


They ARE changing it.. and that's why people are getting upset about it. It's not a straight translation so that people who don't speak English can hear what OUR true Star Spangled Banner says... it's a different version.


yes, but its not a big deal IMO, i just dont understand the total intolerance of many Americans, it makes me incredibly sad.

are you fluent? has a hispanic person approached you on the street and been rude if you didnt know spanish? the immigrants are not sitting back expecting you to cater to them. and honestly, we are one of the only nations in the world where are citizens are not bi-lingual and IMO, that is PATHETIC


Nope I'm not fluent. Nor do I choose to be. Yes I have had people approach me and be rude that I couldn't speak Spanish. When I worked when i still lived in South AL I had people come in to buy shoes yet would get irritated that I can't understand them. Sorry bub your in an English speaking country. I don't have to learn Spanish to communicate with you. I had a man get downright hostile when I told him I couldn't understand what he was saying. Immigrants don't sit back and expect us to cater to them...ILLEGALS however do. Like I've said before I don't mind immigrants I have a problem with the illegals. And this version of the Star Spangled Banner is being done to support ILLEGALS that are all in an uproar because this country is finally trying to do something to get them out of here. I'm sorry..your welcome to come to this country....But do it LEGALLY!

are you fluent? has a hispanic person approached you on the street and been rude if you didnt know spanish? the immigrants are not sitting back expecting you to cater to them. and honestly, we are one of the only nations in the world where are citizens are not bi-lingual and IMO, that is PATHETIC

Do you realize how many languages are spoken in our country because of immigration? Which of the top 50 should we chose to be Bi-Lingual?
http://www.ethnicharvest.org/regions/50languages.html
Is it Pathetic that most Americans don't know French, Italian, German or Chinese? No. We speak English. 23 States have made it the law that English is the official language of those states. About 17 Million out of 230 million (that's about 7%) of the LEGAL population of the US speaks Spanish. (1990 census)

"American- Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture."

NOT the country one came from.

Exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself. :yes

yes, but its not a big deal IMO, i just dont understand the total intolerance of many Americans, it makes me incredibly sad.

It's not intolerance of any kind. The Star Spangled Banner is our National Anthem... it's the words that stand for what our country is. IMO messing with the words to it is as bad as messing with our flag... I think it's disrespectful. Translating it is fine, but changing the entire second verse isn't right, IMO.

Actually yes I have. In school it was mandatory to learn Spanish. Which personally in my opinion is b.s. Why should I have to learn a new language for people coming to this country. I'm sorry this country is English speaking.

And alot of jobs REQUIRE that you be bilingual...For example, at the hospital I work for...If you want to work in Customer Service, you have to speak Spanish!

Yes, its beneficial to be bilingual, but it should NOT be a requirement.

i just think it is positive, i dont think we will ever change each other's opinions. i have no hard feelings :hugs

however, april, it is fine for you to imply that i am not patriotic or whatever it is you were trying to say, but you dont know me enough to say that really.

:hugs It's good though that everyone has different opinions. It's what makes this country so great. And it's a good thing this topic is pretty much done cuz my fingers are tired. :P

i just think it is positive, i dont think we will ever change each other's opinions. i have no hard feelings :hugs

however, april, it is fine for you to imply that i am not patriotic or whatever it is you were trying to say, but you dont know me enough to say that really.


Not sure if you are talking to me, or the other April.... but the way I read a lot of what you post, I get a specific impression of you and your views. It could be just the way I take what Im reading, and the tone I take it in..... you can do that with just about anything that is posted though. :dunno

Yes, its beneficial to be bilingual, but it should NOT be a requirement.

:yes

Not sure if you are talking to me, or the other April.... but the way I read a lot of what you post, I get a specific impression of you and your views. It could be just the way I take what Im reading, and the tone I take it in..... you can do that with just about anything that is posted though. :dunno

not you girlie, you never said "your husband needs a new job" to me :hugs

and honestly all of you, i am not at ALL not patriotic. i LOVE being and American, hence my love of politics. but i understand that my views are not the same as most of the people on here, andi love to debate here, because i get to see the real opposing side, i love you ladies for it!

Not sure if you are talking to me, or the other April.... but the way I read a lot of what you post, I get a specific impression of you and your views. It could be just the way I take what Im reading, and the tone I take it in..... you can do that with just about anything that is posted though. :dunno


No it was me because I said if she didnt know the definition of American then she had no business being married to someone to fights for what this country believes in.

No it was me because I said if she didnt know the definition of American then she had no business being married to someone to fights for what this country believes in.

then i guess good for you that i'm not, right?


and honestly i'd be surprised if my ex who fighs for what this country believes in, doesnt agree with me. :happy

yes, but its not a big deal IMO, i just dont understand the total intolerance of many Americans, it makes me incredibly sad.


I dont see it as total intolerance at all. We simply refuse to change our way of living/believing/thinking because someone came here with or without good or bad intentions and want us to. Our most cherished song has now be defiled just as our flag has been trashed. Its the same feeling. The loss of respect and beauty and to see/hear things that are dear to our heart become something to be used in such a manner is hurtful.

Many people thing quite a few things are not a big deal anymore. "I only had sex with 14 people last night mom its not a big deal". "I only fed my child once at day, he didnt die, no big deal" "I only killed my best friend because he kissed my girl, not a big deal, he deserved it" Point is things are a big deal and too many people are losing their sense of worth and values.

I'm not saying some things dont need to happen or change. An unchanging nation is a dead nation. But the words of our precious song needs to be untouched.

then it's a good thing we aren't throwing out the original! :happy

i live in an area where there are a TON of immigrants.

and it is not like they are CHANGING the anthem, its not like next time you go to a baseball game you are going ot hear a spanish version. its not a replacement its an alternative.. why cnat you have yours, and spanish speaking people have theirs?
Ok but with this "change" who says that in 2-3 years we won't be forced to hear it at a ballgame and such.
I am totally against it!

we still follow the idea of the 200 year old constitution why not follow a 100 year old quote that basically says the same thing?

Ash87, don't take this the wrong way, but you made my point perfectly clear, so I'm quoting you, twice, within 4 posts of one another.

Ash87 said "and honestly, we are one of the only nations in the world where are citizens are not bi-lingual and IMO, that is PATHETIC" in one of her posts a few pages back. Then, a few posts later, she said "yes, but its not a big deal IMO, i just dont understand the total intolerance of many Americans, it makes me incredibly sad."

Both of these statements, made by the same person, on the same day, illustrate a very American perspective. We try to juggle our morals with the natural changing of time. And for the most part, we miss the mark completely.

Everyone finds it unfair to the immigrant by locking the borders down.
Everyone finds it unfair to completely remove the borders and let whoever wants to come into the US, drive right in.
NO ONE is really looking for a middle ground. Sure, we have the immigration system in place, but it's not free or easy to navigate through.

In this, there will be a continuing debate about this remake of the Star Spangled Banner. I don't view it as a remake, and by definition it's not. I view it as little more than using a popular catchy tune to sell records, with a dash of scandal on top. If it were remade, I wouldn't complain. I personally think that the theme song of our great country should be translated into EVERY language, and spread as far as we could send it. Then at least, everyone could get a taste of what American freedom means.

But this song ISN'T a remake. This sounds to be nothing more than "looping" from the 80's. Taking what's popular (like the "Amen" beat break) and looping into a song with your own words. "Ice, Ice Baby" should make most of us cringe, and remind us about looping. Anyway, point is, they didn't remake it, they changed the words to support a cause. The poem-turned-song-turned-anthem was written to support a COUNTRY, to show the magnificent effect a single sheet of cloth had on a person's soul. This "remake" is a protest, put to a tune everyone recognizes. It's typical music-industry dribble. (And no one even mentioned that it was a BRITISH producer...)

As with anything, words are lost in translation. I understand that. The spanish language may not have a phrase for "O'er the ramparts" or "gallantly streaming". But the trick is to get as close as you can. This did not occur.

I dont see it as total intolerance at all. We simply refuse to change our way of living/believing/thinking because someone came here with or without good or bad intentions and want us to. Our most cherished song has now be defiled just as our flag has been trashed. Its the same feeling. The loss of respect and beauty and to see/hear things that are dear to our heart become something to be used in such a manner is hurtful.

Many people thing quite a few things are not a big deal anymore. "I only had sex with 14 people last night mom its not a big deal". "I only fed my child once at day, he didnt die, no big deal" "I only killed my best friend because he kissed my girl, not a big deal, he deserved it" Point is things are a big deal and too many people are losing their sense of worth and values.

I'm not saying some things dont need to happen or change. An unchanging nation is a dead nation. But the words of our precious song needs to be untouched.
Very well said April

Ash87, don't take this the wrong way, but you made my point perfectly clear, so I'm quoting you, twice, within 4 posts of one another.

Ash87 said "and honestly, we are one of the only nations in the world where are citizens are not bi-lingual and IMO, that is PATHETIC" in one of her posts a few pages back. Then, a few posts later, she said "yes, but its not a big deal IMO, i just dont understand the total intolerance of many Americans, it makes me incredibly sad."

Both of these statements, made by the same person, on the same day, illustrate a very American perspective. We try to juggle our morals with the natural changing of time. And for the most part, we miss the mark completely.

Everyone finds it unfair to the immigrant by locking the borders down.
Everyone finds it unfair to completely remove the borders and let whoever wants to come into the US, drive right in.
NO ONE is really looking for a middle ground. Sure, we have the immigration system in place, but it's not free or easy to navigate through.

In this, there will be a continuing debate about this remake of the Star Spangled Banner. I don't view it as a remake, and by definition it's not. I view it as little more than using a popular catchy tune to sell records, with a dash of scandal on top. If it were remade, I wouldn't complain. I personally think that the theme song of our great country should be translated into EVERY language, and spread as far as we could send it. Then at least, everyone could get a taste of what American freedom means.

But this song ISN'T a remake. This sounds to be nothing more than "looping" from the 80's. Taking what's popular (like the "Amen" beat break) and looping into a song with your own words. "Ice, Ice Baby" should make most of us cringe, and remind us about looping. Anyway, point is, they didn't remake it, they changed the words to support a cause. The poem-turned-song-turned-anthem was written to support a COUNTRY, to show the magnificent effect a single sheet of cloth had on a person's soul. This "remake" is a protest, put to a tune everyone recognizes. It's typical music-industry dribble. (And no one even mentioned that it was a BRITISH producer...)

As with anything, words are lost in translation. I understand that. The spanish language may not have a phrase for "O'er the ramparts" or "gallantly streaming". But the trick is to get as close as you can. This did not occur.


:yes :yes :yes :agree You said exactly what I was trying to say, but you got it out so much better than I did :lol

:yes :yes :yes :agree You said exactly what I was trying to say, but you got it out so much better than I did :lol


Same here!! lol

Thank you HateTank.

I just don't understand how someone can take something that is so sacred (and the National Anthem is sacred to me) to America and change it to make a political statement. If you did that with the Constitution or with the Bill of Rights, and re-worded it into another language to make other people "understand" it wouldn't that be wrong? The National Anthem is central to our country and it should remain in English. We want diversity in this country, yes, but why should we have to have one of the things that sets us apart, made into "x" amount of languages? IMO if an immigrant comes to our country they should at least be able to get the gist of the Consititution, laws, Bill of Rights, and the National Anthem. There is no reason why the majority should have to sit back and make changes for 1 or 2 people, or even the whole 7% of legal hispanics in this country. If they are here illegally why do we have to cater to them?

This isnt a "come here and do whatever you please" country. We have laws, customs, and traditions.

We arent a door mat

I just don't understand how someone can take something that is so sacred (and the National Anthem is sacred to me) to America and change it to make a political statement. If you did that with the Constitution or with the Bill of Rights, and re-worded it into another language to make other people "understand" it wouldn't that be wrong? The National Anthem is central to our country and it should remain in English. We want diversity in this country, yes, but why should we have to have one of the things that sets us apart, made into "x" amount of languages? IMO if an immigrant comes to our country they should at least be able to get the gist of the Consititution, laws, Bill of Rights, and the National Anthem. There is no reason why the majority should have to sit back and make changes for 1 or 2 people, or even the whole 7% of legal hispanics in this country. If they are here illegally why do we have to cater to them?

True statement. Changing the words to something, especially as well known as our anthem, to support a political cause, is GROSSLY wrong. This bastardizes the initial meaning of the song to fill a political quota.

However, making the statement that the Star Spangled Banner should remain in English seems naive to me. Wonder what would have happened if King James decided not to translate the bible into English, hoping everyone would learn Hebrew instead? When we have an important message to convey, we will use every available media. I know I called family, made a web page, sent emails and mailed cards to everyone in our address book when E was born.

Now, as for the catering part. I, and Kristi will vouge for this, used to cuss and scream at billboards and ATM's in California. They were all in spanish. It was infuriating to me, to be an American, and have to look at someone else's language everywhere I went. As I chewed on this more and more, I'm starting to realize that these people, these LEGAL people of other nationality, have the right to show their customs and heritage, just as I do. Even MY heritage isn't really American: It's mostly Scandinavian and Norwegian. But because it was in MY country, I just assumed they were doing it to upset ME. Truth is, they're doing what we do everyday. I don't think we really have a right to throw stones.

But that's just me.

I don't see what the big deal is. People change songs and books into other languages all the time. It's not like people are asking for a formal change of it to Spanish for something.

The music (not lyrics) of the Star Spangeled Banner is taken from a British song. So we're kind of done a similar thing. It's not some super scared song.

And if they're using as part of their protesting, good for them. Music has been used to aid in protesting and lobbying for centuries. I'd encourage those who are for the immigration laws to create their own music to make their point.

It just amuses me what upsets people. Thousands of American children do not have enough to eat or adequate medical care, and yet this pisses people off?

Why aren't we protesting gas prices?

Btw there is no federal law stating that English is the official language. Here in RI there is no state law either.

English isn't the official US language: True statement. The US doesn't have an "official" one, however, for the purposes of international relations, English is the accepted language we use.

The big deal isn't about "translating - To express in different words; paraphrase".

The words have been "changed - To give a completely different form or appearance to; transform" .

THIS is what the fuss is about. By saying that something isn't sacred merely because it's a song completely negates your following statement of "And if they're using as part of their protesting, good for them". The song itself, on paper and penned, is not sacred. The fact that countless Americans have gone into battle, supporting the Constitution and defending the American ideals and way of life while humming the bars of the Star Spangled Banner have given the song something we can't see, touch or taste. The only thing we get from this song is a feeling - and our translation of that feeling. To me, as most Americans, hearing this song brings out a feeling of belonging, strife and purpose. We BELIEVE in something larger than we are, and it's expressed in a simple song. That feeling makes it sacred, even if the medium itself is nothing more than a string of squiggles and words.

Thousands of children do not have enough to eat each night, yet we're ready to let whoever wishes to enter the country (which is what the re-creation of the song is attempting to "aid"). THEN how many people won't have enough to eat?

As for gas prices.. well.. I got nothing. The only thing we can do is join in on gas buying protest days. Now this protest I'm all about. As of now, over 60% of our oil is imported: That's over 12million barrels A DAY. Do that math, at 70 bucks a barrel. That's $840,000,000 A DAY. If everyone protested by not buying gas for a single day, that's $504,000,000 that OPEC and other importers won't get. Call me silly, but I can only imagine how that single day would affect future dealings.

Edited to change grammatical error(s)

I don't see what the big deal is. People change songs and books into other languages all the time. It's not like people are asking for a formal change of it to Spanish for something.

The music (not lyrics) of the Star Spangeled Banner is taken from a British song. So we're kind of done a similar thing. It's not some super scared song.

And if they're using as part of their protesting, good for them. Music has been used to aid in protesting and lobbying for centuries. I'd encourage those who are for the immigration laws to create their own music to make their point.

It just amuses me what upsets people. Thousands of American children do not have enough to eat or adequate medical care, and yet this pisses people off?

Why aren't we protesting gas prices?


:yes thanks lauren :)

When I moved to the states I didn't know english, does that make me any less American? was I any less american back then? NO! I'm an American, I'm proud of our flag, I'm proud of speaking two languages. My husband speak spanish and english and he is Cuban by blood, does it make him any less American?
I don't see anything wrong about they singing the Anthem in spanish. I would actually feel very proud if they sing Puerto Rico's anthem in english as well. I don't know what the big deal is not all but most people here comes from different backgrounds.

When I moved to the states I didn't know english, does that make me any less American? was I any less american back then? NO! I'm an American, I'm proud of our flag, I'm proud of speaking two languages. My husband speak spanish and english and he is Cuban by blood, does it make him any less American?
I don't see anything wrong about they singing the Anthem in spanish. I would actually feel very proud if they sing Puerto Rico's anthem in english as well. I don't know what the big deal is not all but most people here comes from different backgrounds.

Shaky did you refuse to speak English? Or refuse to learn it? Did you expect everyone to understand you when you spoke in spanish? I think that is the difference.

Shaky did you refuse to speak English? Or refuse to learn it? Did you expect everyone to understand you when you spoke in spanish? I think that is the difference.


how is the song showing that at all??

how is the song showing that at all??


It has nothing to do with it, but seriously most of her post didnt either. :screwy and yes Ash that :screwy is for you, not Shaky :D


HERE!!! This is what I was referring to When I moved to the states I didn't know english, does that make me any less American? was I any less american back then? NO! I'm an American, I'm proud of our flag, I'm proud of speaking two languages. My husband speak spanish and english and he is Cuban by blood, does it make him any less American?

The song is changing the words to our National Anthem. That is the problem I have with it.

the point i was just trying to make is that this thread has gone off on the subject of immigrants and such and i was just curious why everyone is in an uproar over the SONG. it's just a song.

and i dont understand why debates on here always end so petty

The song is being done in support of illegal immigrants. So I think immigration has a big part in this topic.

the point i was just trying to make is that this thread has gone off on the subject of immigrants and such and i was just curious why everyone is in an uproar over the SONG. it's just a song.

and i dont understand why debates on here always end so petty

I think you are letting your emotions get the best of you if you want my opinion :D BUT of course its just my opinion ;) and YES this has gone off the original topic. Im guilty as charged. Im sure you can be found guilty of the same thing, maybe not this thread, but somewhere in the 10,000 threads on this site :giggle

Did you expect everyone to understand you when you spoke in spanish?
Actually yes :lol I was too frustrated. Honestly, when I first moved here my english suck big time and I was a waitress! can you imagine been waited by someone who would talk to you mostly in "sign languages" I wanted to learn english!!! but I didn't know it, I didn't just go to sleep one night and became bilingual by next morning. It takes time! My bestfriend has been here for 8 yrs and he just started speaking better english just like two years ago! Not because he didn't want to learn, I witness how hard he tried for years! it was hard for him wich I know it's the same for a lot other people. The thing is that either if I learned the language or not I would've still be an American.

I think you are letting your emotions get the best of you if you want my opinion :D BUT of course its just my opinion ;) and YES this has gone off the original topic. Im guilty as charged. Im sure you can be found guilty of the same thing, maybe not this thread, but somewhere in the 10,000 threads on this site :giggle


its an emotional topic, IMO.

sorry if i've ever taken a thread off topic, i'll try to not let it happen again.

and i dont understand why debates on here always end so petty

Umm alrighty then. It's all in how you take it. This forum is going to generate STRONG opinions and people are going to voice them and debate them. :shrug. It really really is about not taking things so personally when you debate them. Of course people aren't going to agree all the time. ESPECIALLY in this forum ;)

I can't wait to hear this song. I need to know what it actually says, cause if it's like I read somewhere that they are changing the lyrics then that means is not the anthem it might be a song that sounds a lot like it. I don't know, I have to hear it or read it.

Umm alrighty then. It's all in how you take it. This forum is going to generate STRONG opinions and people are going to voice them and debate them. :shrug

:agree


It doesnt help when people get upset that they cant change someone else's opinion ;) agree to disagree? We say it often, but in reality it doesnt happen much!

its an emotional topic, IMO.

sorry if i've ever taken a thread off topic, i'll try to not let it happen again.

Yeah, You are going to get emotional over a debate that you somehow"take to heart", but it doesn't sound like you are really all that concerned with your American heritage here. I do not debate because I am an emotional person and I let THAT interfere with FACT. Debates should be taken with facts. Not emotions.

I can't wait to hear this song. I need to know what it actually says, cause if it's like I read somewhere that they are changing the lyrics then that means is not the anthem it might be a song that sounds a lot like it. I don't know, I have to hear it or read it.

you can get it off of limewire :D

Does anyone has the lyrics?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-060426nuestro,0,6454902.story?coll=chi-news-hed

http://wbz1030.com/topic/ap_news.php?story=AP/APTV/National/a/e/SpanishNationalAnthem-ae

This is not one of my normal research-gathering sites, so I won't garauntee that this is the ACTUAL translation - but from what I'm finding out, this is close, if not spot on.

IF this is the correct (or similar) translation, I think ANYONE can see how these lyrics have bastardized the anthem. This act is incredibly similar to a "patriot" burning an American flag.

I feel bad for the immigrants that come to America but they come here to get away from their horrible countrys WHY the hell do they want to make this country like the country they left.. It makes no sense to me and it pisses me off !!! Leave our culture like it is.. if yours is so great go back to IT !!!! :mad

I feel bad for the immigrants that come to America but they come here to get away from their horrible countrys WHY the hell do they want to make this country like the country they left.. It makes no sense to me and it pisses me off !!! Leave our culture like it is.. if yours is so great go back to IT !!!! :mad
While I disagree with changing the words and making the anthem in spanish, I also disagree that doing this will make America into "like their country" It isn't their culture they are getting away from. (IMHO) It's the poor living conditions and such. MANY people are proud of their cultures. Myself included. I am Norweigan (no I am not from Norway but my family did orginiate there) and I make Lefsa on Christmas eve and do things to celebrate my culture. It doesn;t mean I disrespect america by doing this. I wouldnt agree with singing the national anthem in norweigan. But I think culture has NOTHING to do with any of this... And quite honestly..I think that statement might open a whole new can of worms. Culture is something to be VERY VERY proud of

Actually, it's very natural to want to keep your heritage alive through your offspring and your actions. Where else can you find a Chinese man named "Bubba" who owns a Mexican food restaurant? (True story). The cultural diversity is what MAKES this a great place. But on the flip side, it's also intimidating to have someone else's culture rammed down your throat constantly. Culture should be treated like relegion: You do your thing, I'll do mine. There's an invisible line drawn in relegion topics, and most people would do well observing the same line in cultural issues.

And for the most part, the immigrants that take the time to go through the immigration process, pay the fees and go to the classes don't WANT to be back in their native country, much less make this one just like it. For the most part, they are here to make a better life for themselves and future generations.

Not all immigrants are illegal. Not all immigrants think the National Anthem should be sung in Spanish (especially the one that's the topic of this debate). Not all immigrants want to run America into the ground.

all of a sudden this "translated" anthem is coming out admist the immigration debate. i do not under any circumstances say we should close our borders but there needs to be a stronger/reinforced border (control, barriers, etc) to prevent illegal immigrants. if you want to come to this country do it right.

My 2 cents. I hate what they did to the song. They changed some of the words. The turned our National Anthem that stood for what we went through to liberate ourselves from Europe and made a mockery of our ancestors fighting for our freedom to be in America and to be Americans.

I am fed up with this situation that has evolved over the last couple of years. Im sick and tired of immigrants, predominently Mexicans constantly changing the language to suit them. They come into America to enjoy the benefits and way of life here, so suck it up and learn a little bit of english and stop forcing other languages down throats of Americans who speak English.

You don't see us going into other countries and redoing their national anthems in English or changing the words. So what gives them the right to want to change our national anthem. This whole situation just sickens me and yes I know I may sound very harsh and pig headed but Im sick of it. Im sick of always being told to be tolerant of other people and their beliefs, language, customs, etc but their tolerance for us English speaking Americans is almost non existance. Sometimes I wish Travis wasn't in the Navy so we could just pack up and go move to the hills of Oregon and get away from all this. Im sick of going places and finding things in other languages and having to ask for pamphlets in english. I as an American feel disgusted and belittled by their attempts to change our Anthem into their language. And these are my feeling and my lousy 2 cents.

My 2 cents. I hate what they did to the song. They changed some of the words. The turned our National Anthem that stood for what we went through to liberate ourselves from Europe and made a mockery of our ancestors fighting for our freedom to be in America and to be Americans.

I am fed up with this situation that has evolved over the last couple of years. Im sick and tired of immigrants, predominently Mexicans constantly changing the language to suit them. They come into America to enjoy the benefits and way of life here, so suck it up and learn a little bit of english and stop forcing other languages down throats of Americans who speak English.

You don't see us going into other countries and redoing their national anthems in English or changing the words. So what gives them the right to want to change our national anthem. This whole situation just sickens me and yes I know I may sound very harsh and pig headed but Im sick of it. Im sick of always being told to be tolerant of other people and their beliefs, language, customs, etc but their tolerance for us English speaking Americans is almost non existance. Sometimes I wish Travis wasn't in the Navy so we could just pack up and go move to the hills of Oregon and get away from all this. Im sick of going places and finding things in other languages and having to ask for pamphlets in english. I as an American feel disgusted and belittled by their attempts to change our Anthem into their language. And these are my feeling and my lousy 2 cents.

I totally agree.

My 2 cents. I hate what they did to the song. They changed some of the words. The turned our National Anthem that stood for what we went through to liberate ourselves from Europe and made a mockery of our ancestors fighting for our freedom to be in America and to be Americans.

I am fed up with this situation that has evolved over the last couple of years. Im sick and tired of immigrants, predominently Mexicans constantly changing the language to suit them. They come into America to enjoy the benefits and way of life here, so suck it up and learn a little bit of english and stop forcing other languages down throats of Americans who speak English.

You don't see us going into other countries and redoing their national anthems in English or changing the words. So what gives them the right to want to change our national anthem. This whole situation just sickens me and yes I know I may sound very harsh and pig headed but Im sick of it. Im sick of always being told to be tolerant of other people and their beliefs, language, customs, etc but their tolerance for us English speaking Americans is almost non existance. Sometimes I wish Travis wasn't in the Navy so we could just pack up and go move to the hills of Oregon and get away from all this. Im sick of going places and finding things in other languages and having to ask for pamphlets in english. I as an American feel disgusted and belittled by their attempts to change our Anthem into their language. And these are my feeling and my lousy 2 cents.

I feel the same way

My 2 cents. I hate what they did to the song. They changed some of the words. The turned our National Anthem that stood for what we went through to liberate ourselves from Europe and made a mockery of our ancestors fighting for our freedom to be in America and to be Americans.

I am fed up with this situation that has evolved over the last couple of years. Im sick and tired of immigrants, predominently Mexicans constantly changing the language to suit them. They come into America to enjoy the benefits and way of life here, so suck it up and learn a little bit of english and stop forcing other languages down throats of Americans who speak English.

You don't see us going into other countries and redoing their national anthems in English or changing the words. So what gives them the right to want to change our national anthem. This whole situation just sickens me and yes I know I may sound very harsh and pig headed but Im sick of it. Im sick of always being told to be tolerant of other people and their beliefs, language, customs, etc but their tolerance for us English speaking Americans is almost non existance. Sometimes I wish Travis wasn't in the Navy so we could just pack up and go move to the hills of Oregon and get away from all this. Im sick of going places and finding things in other languages and having to ask for pamphlets in english. I as an American feel disgusted and belittled by their attempts to change our Anthem into their language. And these are my feeling and my lousy 2 cents.


:agree You said exactly what I'd like to

my mom brought up a good point to me when i was talking to her about this thread...

she said this "do the people on the forums get irritated when the anthem is played at games and such w/o the words? then we are just using hte music from a british song, is that okay?"

and it is a legitimate question really.. when did the anthem become so sacred?

my mom brought up a good point to me when i was talking to her about this thread...

she said this "do the people on the forums get irritated when the anthem is played at games and such w/o the words? then we are just using hte music from a british song, is that okay?"

and it is a legitimate question really.. when did the anthem become so sacred?

That song is not just music. It is the song of our country. I get Chills EVERY time I hear it. The song is played at games FOR our country AS our Anthem.
A national anthem is "a generally patriotic musical composition that is formally recognized by a country's government as their official national song."

trust me, when i hear the national anthem i get very proud, and i make sure all my freinds remove their hats and such..

i guess i still dont call it "sacred"

my mom brought up a good point to me when i was talking to her about this thread...

she said this "do the people on the forums get irritated when the anthem is played at games and such w/o the words? then we are just using hte music from a british song, is that okay?"

and it is a legitimate question really.. when did the anthem become so sacred?


What is sacred to some isnt to others. The bible is sacred to me, but to an athiest or an agnostic, it isnt. It all falls back on the values you
*thats collective not pointed at any one you* are raised with and a matter of the opinions you *again collective* have formed.

Ask any Olympic Athlete....they would probably say that song is sacred. Ask any Military member - they would most likely say it was sacred.

Ask any Olympic Athlete....they would probably say that song is sacred. Ask any Military member - they would most likely say it was sacred.


i can quite honestly say with that you are wrong. i have asked 3 military members and they have said it was not sacred. meaningful, yes, and i agree, but NOT sacred.


mw5m.. yeah i know there is a way for things to be sacred to some and not others, but in the case, it is not sacred to the collective group of "American" that is what i was trying to say :)

i can quite honestly say with that you are wrong. i have asked 3 military members and they have said it was not sacred. meaningful, yes, and i agree, but NOT sacred.


mw5m.. yeah i know there is a way for things to be sacred to some and not others, but in the case, it is not sacred to the collective group of "American" that is what i was trying to say :)


I gotta disagree. I think to most Americans it is considered sacred. At least where I'm from it is. And most military people I know consider it sacred.

From Wikipedia....
Analogously, the word "sacred" is also sometimes used in regard to items highly esteemed by secular institutions or individuals. For instance, a United States citizen might say that they consider the Stars and Stripes to be sacred.

I gotta disagree. I think to most Americans it is considered sacred. At least where I'm from it is. And most military people I know consider it sacred.


i think a lot of people might use that word yes, but i think also a lot would not use it. i for one, am incredibly patriotic and i wouldnt call the anthem "sacred" as well as my friend in the navy, in the army and one at the Naval Academy. and as far as those non-military, a lot of my friends would agree with me. but i am not making a blanket statement at all, im sure it is probably 50/50 or close

Well I will say this I Don't ever remember going to a ball game, movie etc.. where the music was played but not the words.
I would say the 50/50 statement is more than likely not too accurate Ash cause look at this board alone you are the only one who "feels" diferently.
I know not all have spoken on this subject so you probably aren't alone but there are more who feel it is "sacred" than those who don't
Maybe there should be a poll
Oh and I will be sure to update what the local paper here has tomorrow. They requested that people send in their opinions about this.
And I am sure Corpus Christi has one of the HIGHEST imports of immigrants in the nation certainly not 1 but I would say in the top 25.
It was just posted last week I believe out of the the 200,000 people who live here atleast 17,000 (if I remember correctly) are ILLEGAL that isn't counting the ones who did come here LEGALLY

but i am not making a blanket statement at all, im sure it is probably 50/50 or close

How can you say you aren't making a blanket statement? Have you polled the people in the US? You've mearly asked the people whom you know. To make a “blanket statement” is to make a generalization. And you are "assuming" that since you asked your circle of friends, that it'd be 50/50...Without a basis of fact in there to support the 50/50 statistic you came up with, I would call that fairly inaccurate unless you've ran a poll...

How can you say you aren't making a blanket statement? Have you polled the people in the US? You've mearly asked the people whom you know. To make a “blanket statement” is to make a generalization. And you are "assuming" that since you asked your circle of friends, that it'd be 50/50...Without a basis of fact in there to support the 50/50 statistic you came up with, I would call that fairly inaccurate unless you've ran a poll...


that is why i said probably, and its totally a guess, sorry, i thought that was clear.


and a ratio is not a blanket statement



and on the issue of saying "i am alone in thinking that on here" or whatever, you are all a demographic of sorts, you live similar lives in similar environments and will typically have similar ideology.

Originally Posted by parkwoodmom
Ask any Olympic Athlete....they would probably say that song is sacred. Ask any Military member - they would most likely say it was sacred.


Orginally posted by Ash
i can quite honestly say with that you are wrong. i have asked 3 military members and they have said it was not sacred. meaningful, yes, and i agree, but NOT sacred.

Orignally posted by Kaymara
And you are "assuming" that since you asked your circle of friends, that it'd be 50/50...Without a basis of fact in there to support the 50/50 statistic you came up with, I would call that fairly inaccurate unless you've ran a poll...

Orginally posted by Ash
that is why i said probably, and its totally a guess, sorry, i thought that was clear.

Not to be a bitch Ash but you are quick to point out you said "probably" Where in the above remarks parkwoodmom also said probably/most likely about the military members. ANd you were quick to point out she was wrong :dunno And no I am not doing it to piss ya off. Trust me..there is a point. See in the above texts we are all assuming what the other person said. Even I did ;)

The thing here is we cannot assume to know what someone else feels without talking to them or hearing from them. I did read on cnn that even some of the mexican population were upset with this whole thing. And thought that the anthem should not be in Spanish. I know *I* disagree with it being in another language. And I know most my family members and friends do too. But...I cannot say that everyone I know does. I havent asked em all :dunno

Originally Posted by parkwoodmom
Ask any Olympic Athlete....they would probably say that song is sacred. Ask any Military member - they would most likely say it was sacred.


Orginally posted by Ash
i can quite honestly say with that you are wrong. i have asked 3 military members and they have said it was not sacred. meaningful, yes, and i agree, but NOT sacred.

Orignally posted by Kaymara
And you are "assuming" that since you asked your circle of friends, that it'd be 50/50...Without a basis of fact in there to support the 50/50 statistic you came up with, I would call that fairly inaccurate unless you've ran a poll...

Orginally posted by Ash
that is why i said probably, and its totally a guess, sorry, i thought that was clear.

Not to be a bitch Ash but you are quick to point out you said "probably" Where in the above remarks parkwoodmom also said probably/most likely about the military members. ANd you were quick to point out she was wrong :dunno And no I am not doing it to piss ya off. Trust me..there is a point. See in the above texts we are all assuming what the other person said. Even I did ;)

The thing here is we cannot assume to know what someone else feels without talking to them or hearing from them. I did read on cnn that even some of the mexican population were upset with this whole thing. And thought that the anthem should not be in Spanish. I know *I* disagree with it being in another language. And I know most my family members and friends do too. But...I cannot say that everyone I know does. I havent asked em all :dunno



i am sorry, i guess i did not see the word probably in parkwoodmom's post ;)

an important point to make is that your lives are VERY heavily influenced by the military aspect and that will make some of your ideologies similar. and i watch the news too and i also saw and read the things about some of the Mexican population did not like it either. but there are people out there that Do Not see it as a problem I am one, my ex is one, my family are those, a lot of my friends are, that is what i am trying to say, none of us can get an accurate poll. but i guess what i am saying is, since there is no way to know numbers it is not like there is a right and wrong

an important point to make is that your lives are VERY heavily influenced by the military aspect and that will make some of your ideologies similar.
True. But I can honestly say this...I was not brought up military. But I was brought up as a huge baseball fan. Going to mariner games every single week. And hearing the National Anthem sung would always make me feel great. I would get goosebumps. I always felt very proud, very good etc hearing that. And I am talking all the way down in early elemntary school (yep I am a geek I was a junior mariner and even took my entire classes to games) So I guess I always felt it was sacred. Even before I entered the military lifestyle. I will admit that now it has alot more meaning to me and it means that much more to me living this lifestyle. But I am 1 who felt that way even before it ;)

Ash, you say you feel patriotic and proud when the anthem is played, and demand that your friends remove their hats.. The removal of ones hat during the Anthem is to pay respect to the men and women who have died defending America. While we can argue sanctity all night, the fact remains that people will find ANYTHING that's a symbol of America as sacred. The flag, a bald eagle, the Constitution.. even a chunk of timber believed to be from the Santa Maria. I think this should be the final blow to a rather bludgeoned horse. Sanctity is in the heart of the beholder.

Again, I'll mention this: The song it self is NOT sacred but to the listener. And again, the American National Anthem isn't the debate. It's another countries "artists" using our National Anthem to make a political statement that is the root of this debate.

Now, as Ash's mother asked, do people get offended when we hear the National Anthem at a game where no words are sung? Honestly? I've never been to any event where the Anthem was played an no one sung the words. There may not have been a person with a microphone at home plate, but there was most certainly a flag-waving patriot screaming the words at the top of his lungs, and countless other's whispering them silently. However, this isn't what she meant.

She meant that the music itself, without words, should technically have no meaning, considering it's just some European piece of music. I'll rapidly point out that, while it's just a piece of music, it's played in it's accepted patterns and measures, in it's accepted entirity at these events.

And I'd also like to add this for thought: If advertising is SOOOO cut throat, why isn't anyone using the National Anthem as a commercials theme song? Because some people would find that using that song to sell cars and TV's as a little sacreligious. This like that just aren't done.

*- Edited to add: If anyone gets the impression that the Americans are the only people who get spun up about their national anthem being changed for a commercial or political statement, read this (you don't need to install the language packs). (http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200602/200602220004.html)

i am sorry, i guess i did not see the word probably in parkwoodmom's post ;)

an important point to make is that your lives are VERY heavily influenced by the military aspect and that will make some of your ideologies similar. and i watch the news too and i also saw and read the things about some of the Mexican population did not like it either. but there are people out there that Do Not see it as a problem I am one, my ex is one, my family are those, a lot of my friends are, that is what i am trying to say, none of us can get an accurate poll. but i guess what i am saying is, since there is no way to know numbers it is not like there is a right and wrong
I have to say my family and dhs have NO CLUE what military life is like and they all agree that it is wrong
And I was raised to be PROUD to be an American. Yes my grandfathers served (they were drafted) and we will never "know" if they would have joined any other way. But they did their time and got out, as do many Americans but they still hold things that represent America close to their hearts!

Now, as Ash's mother asked, do people get offended when we hear the National Anthem at a game where no words are sung? Honestly? I've never been to any event where the Anthem was played an no one sung the words. There may not have been a person with a microphone at home plate, but there was most certainly a flag-waving patriot screaming the words at the top of his lungs, and countless other's whispering them silently. However, this isn't what she meant.

.

just so you know,they dont play the word's at the olympics, at any of my college sports games, i've been to major league soccer where they didnt play the words... i guess you just dont go to a huge variet of events or something

well now that was kind of mean Ash
Cause dh and I have been to MANY MLB games
NCAA games
etc..
and it has always been sung

well now that was kind of mean Ash
Cause dh and I have been to MANY MLB games
NCAA games
etc..
and it has always been sung


then that is for you, i have been to TONS of sporting events in my life, my dad's old company sponsors a TON of teams so i went lots of places, and it's not always sung, it just simply isnt. im not making that up

and also, quite honestly, i dont think my post was nearly as mean as some others in this thread ;)

Nope, no I don't. But I am observant enough during the few times I've seen these events to notice that. This is why I added that second to last sentence to my debate, which you quoted.

In case you missed it, allow me to quote myself, "There may not have been a person with a microphone at home plate, but there was most certainly a flag-waving patriot screaming the words at the top of his lungs, and countless other's whispering them silently."

And that's completely irrelevant. The fact that the words aren't sung is highlighted in the rest of my post.

i guess you just dont go to a huge variet of events or something

That's kinda rude dontcha think?


I've been to many events. MLB,college games and they have someone singing it.

That's kinda rude dontcha think?


I've been to many events. MLB,college games and they have someone singing it.


great then, im just saying it is not ALWAYS sung, it's not like im lying!

Did I say you were lying? I was making a statement about what I have noticed from the games and events that I have attended. Now this will be my last post on this as it seems like it's just getting catty at this point. I'm just agreeing to disagree.

Did I say you were lying? I was making a statement about what I have noticed from the games and events that I have attended. Now this will be my last post on this as it seems like it's just getting catty at this point. I'm just agreeing to disagree.
you didnt say it, but honestly, why post what you did, unless you were trying to say it was ALWAYS sung.

Well, if was intended to be mean, i didn't take it that way: I just assumed she remembers that I honestly don't get out much, nor do I watch much TV. I have been to maybe 5 major sporting events my entire life, and only a two of those events had someone with a microphone singing the words. She's 100% accurate in saying that it doesn't always happen. The Olympics are an excellent example.

But when people hear the bars of the American National Anthem, do they say "Oh, this is just that British song the Americans like.", or do they say "This is the American National Anthem."? Butterflies begin life as an ugly little bug. But we dont' think of that when we see them flying in a field.

That's kinda rude dontcha think?


I've been to many events. MLB,college games and they have someone singing it.


Correct me if I'm wrong but does it say anywhere in this post that it is ALWAYS sung?? No I didn't think so. I was giving my view. Everywhere i have been it's been sung. Which is a fact. Now like I said I'm done with this. Have a great night.

[QUOTE=Hatetank]Well, if was intended to be mean, i didn't take it that way: I just assumed she remembers that I honestly don't get out much, nor do I watch much TV. I have been to maybe 5 major sporting events my entire life, and only a two of those events had someone with a microphone singing the words. She's 100% accurate in saying that it doesn't always happen. The Olympics are an excellent example.

But when people hear the bars of the American National Anthem, do they say "Oh, this is just that British song the Americans like.", or do they say "This is the American National Anthem."? Butterflies begin life as an ugly little bug. But we dont' think of that when we see them flying in a field.[/QUOTE)

that is a good point and analogy however, i dont see this spanish-language version as the anthem being evolved, i see it as an alternative of sorts, never will it replace the traditional or anything.

G'nite, uscgwife05. Don't go to bed upset! I recommend a lot of Rolaids or picturing finding Santa Claus nude putting presents under a Christmas Tree.. I haven't gone to bed upset in YEARS..

Disturbed and repulsed, maybe.. but NEVER upset...

G'nite, uscgwife05. Don't go to bed upset! I recommend a lot of Rolaids or picturing finding Santa Claus nude putting presents under a Christmas Tree.. I haven't gone to bed upset in YEARS..

Disturbed and repulsed, maybe.. but NEVER upset...
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :roflmao

G'nite, uscgwife05. Don't go to bed upset! I recommend a lot of Rolaids or picturing finding Santa Claus nude putting presents under a Christmas Tree.. I haven't gone to bed upset in YEARS..

Disturbed and repulsed, maybe.. but NEVER upset...

Thanks HateTank. lol. That was what I needed. Santa naked. Hopefully no nightmares about that tonight. Besides I can't go to bed upset. People in housing are outside having a bonfire right behind my house and are being noisy. :D

Thanks HateTank. lol. That was what I needed. Santa naked. Hopefully no nightmares about that tonight. Besides I can't go to bed upset. People in housing are outside having a bonfire right behind my house and are being noisy. :D

Ohhh come on! You don't wanna have nice dreams of santa doing a little dance in the living room nude?? :lmao

Hope the people quiet down for ya soon! :D

Ohhh come on! You don't wanna have nice dreams of santa doing a little dance in the living room nude?? :lmao

Hope the people quiet down for ya soon! :D


One of my uncles looks just like Santa. Literally...rosy cheeks,big belly,white beard and hair. I can't picture Santa naked..it'd be like picturing him. oh gosh I can't even go there. That is way too disturbing to think of.

I'm not holding my breath on them calming down. I think they're celebrating the fact that my husband's boat is going into dry dock tomorrow. There's a bit of rivalry between the station and the boat lol.

that is a good point and analogy however, i dont see this spanish-language version as the anthem being evolved, i see it as an alternative of sorts, never will it replace the traditional or anything.

Eeeeesh, I certainly hope it doesn't become an alternate... "Which version of the Anthem would you like to hear?".. "I'd like the "Slayer" version, please!".. <cringe>

Oh well. I guess I shouldn't be so perturbed by this debate, considering there isn't a car commercial on TV that doesn't have the stars and bars waving in the background and a bald eagle imposed over it.. But still it does. <shrug>

i can quite honestly say with that you are wrong. i have asked 3 military members and they have said it was not sacred. meaningful, yes, and i agree, but NOT sacred.


mw5m.. yeah i know there is a way for things to be sacred to some and not others, but in the case, it is not sacred to the collective group of "American" that is what i was trying to say :)

Please don't take offense...but I think you are enjoying contradicting everything people have to say about finding the national anthem "sacred".

Please don't take offense...but I think you are enjoying contradicting everything people have to say about finding the national anthem "sacred".


i just dont agree with anyone on here... is that okay?

great then, im just saying it is not ALWAYS sung, it's not like im lying!
we arent doubting that there are a few instances where it isn't sung but you make out like it is ALL the time
and guess what if you ever go watch a movie on base YOU will HEAR the Star Spangled Banner SUNG!

i just dont agree with anyone on here... is that okay?

Ofcourse we are all entitled to our opinion...YOURS however is driving me nuts! ;)

we arent doubting that there are a few instances where it isn't sung but you make out like it is ALL the time
and guess what if you ever go watch a movie on base YOU will HEAR the Star Spangled Banner SUNG!

im not trying to make it seem like all the time, im sure most of the time it is, just not always



sorry to drive you nuts then kristen

[QUOTE=ash87


sorry to drive you nuts then kristen[/QUOTE]

LOL. Everyone is just passionate about their beliefs. It kinda rubs me the wrong way, when you say you are patriotic. I just find it hard to believe with everything you are saying.

LOL. Everyone is just passionate about their beliefs. It kinda rubs me the wrong way, when you say you are patriotic. I just find it hard to believe with everything you are saying.


wow, that is incredibly rude, imo.

i love America, i want to be a politician to try and help make it better.... being a citizen of the US is something that i am thankful for EVERYDAY.

how dare you say that.

wow, that is incredibly rude, imo.

i love America, i want to be a politician to try and help make it better.... being a citizen of the US is something that i am thankful for EVERYDAY.

how dare you say that.

I don't see how that was rude...it was not my intention and I'm sorry you took it that way. And you are free to say whatever you like on here, I have the same right...so I will "dare" to say what I feel...just as you are.

I could be mistaken, but this seems to be getting a bit off the debate. While I can appreciate everyone's passion for this topic, it won't serve anyone any better if we get into a proverbial mud slinging contest.

So.. everyone sit back, take a deep breath, and try REALLY hard not to picture Santa Claus (NOT someone's uncle) naked, putting presents under your tree..

Sweet dreams!

So.. everyone sit back, take a deep breath, and try REALLY hard not to picture Santa Claus (NOT someone's uncle) naked, putting presents under your tree..

Sweet dreams!


:lmao

I've read some of this post...and WOW is all I have to say.

The Star Spangled banner means a lot to me. I think this whole immigration thing is a bunch of BS. If people want to come to this country to have a better life, that's great. However, I DO NOT agree with this whole melting pot/mixing bowl crap. This is America. If you want to come live here, great...but it pisses me off that these people think we should conform to their ways and accomodate to them. If we went to their country and expected that they would laugh us back home.

I've read some of this post...and WOW is all I have to say.

The Star Spangled banner means a lot to me. I think this whole immigration thing is a bunch of BS. If people want to come to this country to have a better life, that's great. However, I DO NOT agree with this whole melting pot/mixing bowl crap. This is America. If you want to come live here, great...but it pisses me off that these people think we should conform to their ways and accomodate to them. If we went to their country and expected that they would laugh us back home.
:agree

Translating the national anthem into Spanish? Why, that's almost as bad as translating the sacred bible into English!! :inshock

Translating the national anthem into Spanish? Why, that's almost as bad as translating the sacred bible into English!! :inshock
:lol ...so true though...

The Bible isn't for ONE nation though. The song is.

Ironically, it's NOTHING like that at all.

The King James version of the bible is as close to the original Hebrew text as possible (or as edited, if you will). Some words were changed, merely because they didn't have a translatable-to-English version. This is why Joshua, the Messiah became Jesus, Son of God (or vice versa.. my theology is rusty)

If we are to believe these two things are similar, then we should understand that the translation of the bible was purely political in it's recreation to a new language, and events and names were changed to support King James' cause. While THIS can be debated to great extent, it's widely theorized that there wouldn't have been much to gain by changing the events. At the time, the bible was slightly more than a curiosity from a far away land.

Anyway, it's nothing like that. Unless, of course, you have some more information that we don't?

I was merely suggesting that translating the bible from Hebrew to English, for non-Hebrew speakers to understand, bears relative similarity to translating your national anthem into Spanish for non-English speakers to understand.

At best, this is an action taken for non-English speakers to understand what the anthem is saying. Without knowing the words, how can you understand how scared it is? At worst, it's a cheesy pop-song created to stir up some controversy. In that case, it look like they achieved what they set out to :dunno

Okay, so after thinking on this for a while I need to open my mouth.
I was thinking about the "bible comment" and this is what I came up with: The Hebrews were told to spread the religion. It was not meant to be isolated to one area of the world. Therefore it HAD to be translated. The USA National Anthem was meant for the USA, where the recognized language is English. Therefore it is meant to be in English. So, the Hebrews and the bible have no basis in that debate. They are totally different situations. If you even listen to the words in the National Anthem, it is about a great moment in American History. Not about a generalization on freedom, but what happened when we gained our freedom and independance. The events that happened and lead up to it.

That's pretty much all I have to say about this.

Very Well Put!

Again, I'll point out the difference between "Translation" and "Change". The bible is a "Translation" from Hebrew to English. While there are some differences between the text, the scholars attempted to keep as true to the original content as their language allowed. With some minor (and a few MAJOR) differences, the King James bible is a close translation to original Hebrew text.

The Spanish "change" of the National Anthem is NOT to be construed as a translation. The words have been changed, deliberately. They weren't changed because the Spanish language doesn't have a suitable phrase or term. The lyrics were changed to accomodate a political message. A more suitable equivelant would be to use a few lines from the Constitution, but rewrite it to legalize marijuana.

I don't think the American people will appreciate hearing their national anthem chopped and cut up as any producer sees fit. What's next? The Al-Qaeda version?

I'm trying to think of an equivelant of this, and the only thing I can think of is something like changing the words to "God Save the Queen" to something political, like "Fire Charles Clarke", written by a group of registered murderers.

Okay, so after thinking on this for a while I need to open my mouth.
I was thinking about the "bible comment" and this is what I came up with: The Hebrews were told to spread the religion. It was not meant to be isolated to one area of the world. Therefore it HAD to be translated. The USA National Anthem was meant for the USA, where the recognized language is English. Therefore it is meant to be in English. So, the Hebrews and the bible have no basis in that debate. They are totally different situations. If you even listen to the words in the National Anthem, it is about a great moment in American History. Not about a generalization on freedom, but what happened when we gained our freedom and independance. The events that happened and lead up to it.

That's pretty much all I have to say about this.

But wouldn't you want the non-English speakers who live in your country to understand the anthem?

There are two different things that in this debate (not just here but most places) are getting mixed up. There is for one the translation of the National Anthem into Spanish as a simple translation, nothing added, nothing left out. And then there is a second version which has yet to actually be released which will contain some new lyrics. So that by itself won't be the original but new words (not a rewritten anthem) to simply the same tune.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193533,00.html

I don't think anyone is really trying to say Americans are better then anyone else, we are just saying that we want to maintain our AMERICAN identity, and to most of us that includes our language, our flag, our National Anthem, just to name a few. I am all for immigration, but when these people leave their country to come here they should not expect the majority to cater to them. If they are truely fleeing a bad life, and looking for a better life in America then I would think they would want to assimilate into mainstream American culture. They CHOSE to come here, no one FORCED them, if they don't want to learn English, they have every right in the world to stay in their own country or move to a different country that speaks their language.

ETA: I don't think that assimilation has to be complete and total, I am all for these people maintaining their own culture in their own home or in areas where their culture is the mainstream "little italy" etc. I think the diversity of culture is truely amazing as well, but I also think there has to be a common thread to hold it all together, and that is the American culture, I think as we shift more to this "mixing bowl" attitude, people are forgetting that they have to pick up the American way of life a little as well as maintaining their own cultural identity. I would like to see a balance of both. I have no problem with these people speaking whatever language they want to in their own home or with their friends, but in public work places, and schools, and when talking on a National scale (I.E. things like the National Anthem) I think these things should all have a common language that unites us as a country and that to me is English