http://www.newsweek.com/id/129594

Newsweek's cover story this week is about women who choose to be surrogate mothers, and the article speaks specifically about how surrogacy is a viable option for military spouses who choose to be surrogates (see link). Without arguing the right-ness or wrong-ness of surrogacy, which I believe is a highly personal decision to be made only by the people directly involved, I'd like to get some discussion on surrogacy itself as, in effect, a part-time job for military spouses.

The article says there are IVF companies that specifically target military spouses in base housing in places like Camp Pendleton, CA (north of San Diego), with ads telling the women they will be paid for their services. I don't begrudge anyone using this as a means of income; many military spouses are extremely limited in employment due to the nature of the job and the life.

However- I think there are legitimate concerns about the expense. If a woman is receiving, for example, $30,000 payment for being a surrogate, should TriCare be able to recoup some of that as payment for the prenatal care and delivery? Why or why not?

If a woman earns $30,000 for carrying another family's child, should that money be viewed as taxable income? Why or why not?

And finally, if (god forbid) something untoward happens during what should be a normal pregnancy and delivery, who should be responsible for the cost of extended medical services (specifically O.R. use, NICU, life-saving transport, etc)?

Thanks for your thoughts.

My feelings on this are: The cost of care should be recouped by TriCare from the client (prospective parents) or from the mother herself. Taxpayers are footing the bill for medical care for military beneficiaries; they should not be expected to pay for care for someone who isn't a military beneficiary.

The payment for surrogacy should be seen as income, and should be taxed at the appropriate rate. if the military spouse was working at IBM or Humana or Sears or McDonalds, or even if she was providing daycare in her home, she'd be responsible for taxes on her income.

I would hope that the contract between the surrogate and the client parents would stipulate who would be responsible for which expenses, to include unexpected expenses such as NICU, emergency surgery, etc. These are things that taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for simply because military families have a great medical insurance plan. If a military beneficiary elects to get a boob job or get their teeth whitened, s/he is responsible for purchasing the implants or the whitening kit (although they don't pay for hospitalization, OR time, specialists, etc). This shouldn't be any different.

I think that this may generate a lot of discussion with the publication of the Newsweek article.

Typically, medical care is included in the surrogate fee(paid for by the biological parents of the unborn child).

Typically, medical care is included in the surrogate fee(paid for by the biological parents of the unborn child).

Yes, I know. But when using the military medical facilities, there isn't an actual bill, unless the surrogate states she's getting paid by *whatever/whomever* and then tells third Party Claims where to collect. The fact that there isn't a medical care portion to the cost is what makes it attractive for client/parents to seek out a military beneficiary to be the surrogate.

Yes, I know. But when using the military medical facilities, there isn't an actual bill, unless the surrogate states she's getting paid by *whatever/whomever* and then tells third Party Claims where to collect. The fact that there isn't a medical care portion to the cost is what makes it attractive for client/parents to seek out a military beneficiary to be the surrogate.


It's the surrogate's responsibility to inform everyone on her end of the arrangement. It's definitely fraud...ethically, if nothing else. Something keeps telling me it says somewhere in the tricare enrollment agreement that things like that are illegal....but I don't happen to have a copy here to quote it.

OK...on the flip side then...If a set of intended parents are IN the military and they hire a surrogate...should tricare pay to cover THEIR surrogates pregnancy?

Insurances companies can not have it both ways...either they do not want to foot the bill for the parents or they do not want to foot the bill for the surrogate...SOMEONE is entitled to coverage...

Someone IS entitled to the benefits of having pregnancy covered...SO either cover the surrogate from HER insurance as the pregnancy IS IN FACT her condition, or cover the surrogate using the Intended parents insurance because THEY are entitled to pregnancy coverage under their insurance...

I would think tricare should cover only a pregnant military member or dependent. Would it be NICE if they covered surrogacy? Sure...don't see it happening, though.

So...if my husband and I could not have children, and we hired a surrogate who's husband was military...

The surrogate should not be covered under her husbands insurance, because it is not his pregnancy, and it should not be covered under our insurance because it would not be me who is pregnant?

You can not have it BOTH ways...infertility is a disease, and it can not be ignored just because you need someone else to help you cure your disease...

So...if my husband and I could not have children, and we hired a surrogate who's husband was military...

The surrogate should not be covered under her husbands insurance, because it is not his pregnancy, and it should not be covered under our insurance because it would not be me who is pregnant?

You can not have it BOTH ways...infertility is a disease, and it can not be ignored just because you need someone else to help you cure your disease...


I know my sister has looked into it. And she would have been paid cash and also the parents would have paid cash upfront for the medical bills. I am not sure if all of them work that way. But in her case, NO insurance would have been involved at all.

AND...MOST insurance companies WILL cover a surrogate pregnancy...The article made it sound like it is only Tricare that does...when in fact, it is not.

The will cover the pregnancy, and once the baby is born, he/she will go one their parents insurance...

Tricare would NOT be paying for a NICU stay...

Is infertility truly a disease? I seriously didn't know it was. hmmm...

Are you serious?? A woman's uterus not functioning the way that it is supposed to...IS a medical condition...

Premature ovarian failure, Severe endometriosis, Early ovarian cancer, ALL diseases, ALL cause infertility...

Are you serious?? A woman's uterus not functioning the way that it is supposed to...IS a medical condition...

Uh, yeah. I was seriously asking because I had never heard of infertility as being a disease. I don't understand the reason you're being rude to me for asking a completely innocent question.

It was not meant to be rude...It honestly was not. I am a little offended at all of the surrogacy talk around here because I just read a thread that likened some of my close friends to whores and prostitutes...

And it surprises me that people would make such broad assumptions when it appears that most people do not even know that it is a disease...

I just did not understand how you would NOT see it as a disease...

If your heart was not working properly, that would be a disease, correct?

If you needed someone else's kidney to have a better life, would you not have a disease??

And...Tricare WOULD cover your portion of that kidney transplant...

Why is the uterus looked at as a less vital organ?

So...if my husband and I could not have children, and we hired a surrogate who's husband was military...

The surrogate should not be covered under her husbands insurance, because it is not his pregnancy, and it should not be covered under our insurance because it would not be me who is pregnant?

You can not have it BOTH ways...infertility is a disease, and it can not be ignored just because you need someone else to help you cure your disease...

That's not what I said. I said the pregnant person should be the military dependent-meaning, in-vitro or another option should be covered by tri-care. If that isn't medically possible, then decided on a case-by-case basis or something.

I, personally, am all for insurance covering more of these procedures!!!! Just clarifying what I think is logical, considering tricare's record.

Infertility is caused by different reasons, and not all infertility has to do with a uterus at all, so I just didn't see how it could be so broadly described as a disease. I'd think the specific reason FOR infertility would be the actual disease, not the symptom. :shrug

OK...gotcha!!

AND...here is where we are going to disagree...I do not think that Tricare SHOULD cover a surrogate actually GETTING pregnant, because it is NOT in fact her condition that prevents her from getting pregnant...that belongs to the Parents...

BUT, once pregnant, that IS her condition, and that IS a benefit that is covered...

OK...gotcha!!

AND...here is where we are going to disagree...I do not think that Tricare SHOULD cover a surrogate actually GETTING pregnant, because it is NOT in fact her condition that prevents her from getting pregnant...that belongs to the Parents...

BUT, once pregnant, that IS her condition, and that IS a benefit that is covered...

I meant in-vitro for the bio-mother if the infertility is on the part of the father. I apologize for not clarifying :arg Sometimes I think faster than I type:lol

Infertility is caused by different reasons, and not all infertility has to do with a uterus at all, so I just didn't see how it could be so broadly described as a disease. I'd think the specific reason FOR infertility would be the actual disease, not the symptom. :shrug


So, if you are diabetic, and the diabetes causes kidney failure...that kidney failure is not a disease? Just because it is caused by something else does not mean that it is not a separate medical condition...

And you are right, sometimes it is a problem in the ovaries as well...

I meant in-vitro for the bio-mother if the infertility is on the part of the father. I apologize for not clarifying :arg Sometimes I think faster than I type:lol


No problem! ;)

So, if you are diabetic, and the diabetes causes kidney failure...that kidney failure is not a disease? Just because it is caused by something else does not mean that it is not a separate medical condition...

:no See, I'm actually not arguing with you over it. :wink I'm just saying that's what I thought. I could seriously care less whether it's classified as a disease or not, I was saying I had never heard of it referred to in that respect, and it kind of threw me offguard. :lmao

Again...refer to my post where I say that I am a little jumpy cause of the prostitution remarks! ;) ;)

That and I should not be debating and 1230 I should be in bed! ;) ;)

:D

I would think tricare should cover only a pregnant military member or dependent. Would it be NICE if they covered surrogacy? Sure...don't see it happening, though.

Tricare covers surrogacy provided it is another military member carrying the child for the military member. In other words they have to already be entitled to Tricare coverage. I linked where they say that in the other thread.

I think surrogacy SHOULD be covered but I also feel that IVF and all infertility medicine/practice should also be covered for everyone. Basically I am for good health care for all.

The subject of Tricare surrogacy coverage is becoming a hot topic throughout the military world; on Web sites such as militarySOS .com, bloggers with sign-on names such as "Ms. Ordinance" and "ProudArmyWife" fiercely debate the subject.

I pulled this out of the article. Not trying to debate but I just wanted to say wow SOS is in Newsweek.

OH MY WORD!!!! I just really fast skimmed the article. So they must have read our debate about it good l-rd. That makes me feel very crappy because some really awful things were said in that thread regarding surrogacy. Also that debate was NOT about tricare coverage of surrogates at all.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/129594

However- I think there are legitimate concerns about the expense. If a woman is receiving, for example, $30,000 payment for being a surrogate, should TriCare be able to recoup some of that as payment for the prenatal care and delivery? Why or why not?

If a woman earns $30,000 for carrying another family's child, should that money be viewed as taxable income? Why or why not?

And finally, if (god forbid) something untoward happens during what should be a normal pregnancy and delivery, who should be responsible for the cost of extended medical services (specifically O.R. use, NICU, life-saving transport, etc)?

Thanks for your thoughts.

I believe the cost of medical expenses, whether it is a healthy pregnancy and delivery or not should be paid for by the biological/adoptive family. Now if both family and surrogate are military, enrolled in TRICARE, then I think TRICARE should pay for all prenatal care and delivery. They would be paying for this pregnancy if the couple were able to concieve via convetional means.

If the surrogate is making money off of this, then yes it should be listed as income. After all, child support and things like that are.

I think surrogacy is a great option for parents who cannot concieve and I admire any woman willing to be a surrogate. However, I do not think those people (meaning non-military families) should abuse the benefits put in place for military families.

Oops...wrong thread :rofl

I believe the cost of medical expenses, whether it is a healthy pregnancy and delivery or not should be paid for by the biological/adoptive family. Now if both family and surrogate are military, enrolled in TRICARE, then I think TRICARE should pay for all prenatal care and delivery. They would be paying for this pregnancy if the couple were able to concieve via convetional means.

If the surrogate is making money off of this, then yes it should be listed as income. After all, child support and things like that are.

I think surrogacy is a great option for parents who cannot concieve and I admire any woman willing to be a surrogate. However, I do not think those people (meaning non-military families) should abuse the benefits put in place for military families.

Child support is NOT counted as income for tax purposes.

Thank you! ;) ;)

I work for a news network in Manhattan. We are doing a story on military wives who are acting as surrogates and looking for any military wife in manhattan or the close surrounding areas who is or has acted as a surrogate for an on camera interview.

Please contact me at hlajs@aol.com if you are or know of someone..


I SOOO saw that coming.

Well hopefully they will do a more accurate news story then Newsweek has done.

Well hopefully they will do a more accurate news story then Newsweek has done.


That'd be nice.

I SOOO saw that coming.

Well hopefully they will do a more accurate news story then Newsweek has done.

Yep...

How about whoever this news person is tries contacting the site owner (Brandi) and she can make the request to the boards. I'm just having major issues with reporters and such coming and posting on the boards like this (yes, yes, I KNOW this is a public board, so need to remind me).

The subject of Tricare surrogacy coverage is becoming a hot topic throughout the military world; on Web sites such as militarySOS .com, bloggers with sign-on names such as "Ms. Ordinance" and "ProudArmyWife" fiercely debate the subject.

I pulled this out of the article. Not trying to debate but I just wanted to say wow SOS is in Newsweek.

Wowsers!!!!
Also, Ordnance is totally spelled wrong in your name, dunno if that is their typo or yours! Ordinance is law.

Thanks mom. Mine is actually spelled that way for a reason :tu

Thanks mom. Mine is actually spelled that way for a reason :tu

Ouch, cranky are we?! Crazy, me thinking on a military website it's to be the other ordnance, plus you discussed Explosive Ordnance Disposal with me. Hm.

Nope not cranky just thought someone would realize that since I have had the name so long and never changed it that is isnt a typo. And it is military ORDINANCE....the I is added for a reason.

Nope not cranky just thought someone would realize that since I have had the name so long and never changed it that is isnt a typo. And it is military ORDINANCE....the I is added for a reason.

Actually I remember you arguing the same thing with settles, I think it was awhile back. You said that's how your DH had spelled it or something? Either way :dunno

You did not have to bite her head off over it. I mean it is for example "Army Ordnance Corps" unless you are meaning military law. She wasn't being a MOM she was just letting you know.

Nope not cranky just thought someone would realize that since I have had the name so long and never changed it that is isnt a typo. And it is military ORDINANCE....the I is added for a reason.

I think calling me mom def qualifies you as cranky!
Your SN is your SN, just thought it was funny seeing the law definition ordinance quoted in Newsweek. The added I changes the entire word, but it's your name! No worries.

You did not have to bite her head off over it. I mean it is for example "Army Ordnance Corps" unless you are meaning military law. She wasn't being a MOM she was just letting you know.

Thanks! Just thought it was curious, since an added I makes it an entirely dif word. I'm not like typo police, just thought it was odd.

I think calling me mom def qualifies you as cranky!
Your SN is your SN, just thought it was funny seeing the law definition ordinance quoted in Newsweek. The added I changes the entire word, but it's your name! No worries.

:D

And for clarifiction. Every document I have ever seen as far as my husbands work it is spelled Ordinance. This not being the whole reason of why by name is spelled the way that it is. Glad this has become an issue :lmao Sorry cant help but think its funny

:D

And for clarifiction. Every document I have ever seen as far as my husbands work it is spelled Ordinance. This not being the whole reason of why by name is spelled the way that it is. Glad this has become an issue :lmao Sorry cant help but think its funny

Perhaps you're mis-reading? I just googled USMC Ordinance and even google corrected the spelling. http://www.google.com/search?q=USMC+Ordinance&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SUNA

Not sure what sort of USMC docs would be made available to a spouse, but if you follow that google search, there's an especially interesting link entitled "There's no I in Ordnance!!!"

Whatever. Got anything on the actual topic?

Whatever. Got anything on the actual topic?

Do you have anything else to contribute to the site other than participating in the surrogacy debate?

Perhaps you're mis-reading? I just googled USMC Ordinance and even google corrected the spelling. http://www.google.com/search?q=USMC+Ordinance&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SUNA

Not sure what sort of USMC docs would be made available to a spouse, but if you follow that google search, there's an especially interesting link entitled "There's no I in Ordnance!!!"

Whatever. Got anything on the actual topic?

Why did you edit your post? Didn't you just spew some garbage out saying, "Oh well, it just reflects poorly on you and your husband, Pity that.." :chicken :chicken :chicken

Actually, I've been to some of the other threads, but I didn't want to just 'move in,' you know? There are a lot of long-established relationships here, and I don't want to intrude. For now, I'm really interested in how all of you feel about this.

I didn't think that would be a problem. Is there something I should have done differently?

And yeah, I did go back and edit out a snarky comment that I shouldn't have made. It was rude, so I edited it. That's one of the reasons the 'edit' option is available, right? I shouldn't have said it, I'm sorry I did (even briefly), so I tried to be decent and edited it out.

Ladies (I'm guessing the majority of you are women), have I done something wrong here? Why the hostility? Like I said, I'm truly interested in your opinions on this matter. I'm NOT a reporter, I'm merely a retired navy corpsman who is interested in what you think.

Do you have anything else to contribute to the site other than participating in the surrogacy debate?

:rofl Makes you wonder huh?

Makes me wonder a whole lot. I hate this crap always wondering who is for real and who is not. Grrrrr

Actually, I've been to some of the other threads, but I didn't want to just 'move in,' you know? There are a lot of long-established relationships here, and I don't want to intrude. For now, I'm really interested in how all of you feel about this.

I didn't think that would be a problem. Is there something I should have done differently?

Not that it's really a big deal, but sometimes we get trolls in (like the journalists or just shit stirrers in general) who come only to stir things up and then stop posting or get banned. Not that we necessarily think YOU'RE a troll, just that there are some slight signs present.

You don't HAVE to, but most newbies make an intro post about themselves in the Newbies section http://forum.militarysos.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4 so everyone can say hello and get to know where they're coming from a little better. Helps people not to be so paranoid about trolls etc, and facilitates relationship growth. ;)

Actually, I've been to some of the other threads, but I didn't want to just 'move in,' you know? There are a lot of long-established relationships here, and I don't want to intrude. For now, I'm really interested in how all of you feel about this.

I didn't think that would be a problem. Is there something I should have done differently?

For one, you didn't post an intro in the newbies section, which is specifically what it is for.

I think alot of our new members generally fair better when they just jump right in, it allows us to get to know them better. I checked your posts and noticed that you had ONLY posted in the surrogacy threads. This is a support site, not a debates site, and you should not be here strictly for that reason or topic alone. If you are here to be a positive and supportive member of the boards, then welcome.

And editing of your posts like that is generally not well received either.

Actually, I've been to some of the other threads, but I didn't want to just 'move in,' you know? There are a lot of long-established relationships here, and I don't want to intrude. For now, I'm really interested in how all of you feel about this.

I didn't think that would be a problem. Is there something I should have done differently?

I think what most are looking for is maybe an introduction under the newbies forum. Great way for others to get to know you. Trust me, people like it when you jump in to other threads. YOu never know what you may have to offer another SO, especially with you being prior military.

No one minds when one debates, we also want to get to know you :yes

:rofl Makes you wonder huh?

Yep, it sure does. :nutts

See I didn't mind her being here for the debate at first because she clearly stated her intentions. But then she jumped into a conversation between two other members that didn't really involve her and had some nasty things to say. But then edited her post. Nice.

And editing of your posts like that is generally not well received either.


:agree

Especially in debates..

But it's cool, I found it for you just in case anyone missed it.. :thumbsup

http://media4.dropshots.com/photos/382145/20080331/173158.jpg (http://www.dropshots.com/)

:agree

Especially in debates..

But it's cool, I found it for you just in case anyone missed it.. :thumbsup

http://media4.dropshots.com/photos/382145/20080331/173158.jpg (http://www.dropshots.com/)

:rofl
I (L) you lefty.

For one, you didn't post an intro in the newbies section, which is specifically what it is for.

I think alot of our new members generally fair better when they just jump right in, it allows us to get to know them better. I checked your posts and noticed that you had ONLY posted in the surrogacy threads. This is a support site, not a debates site, and you should not be here strictly for that reason or topic alone. If you are here to be a positive and supportive member of the boards, then welcome.

And editing of your posts like that is generally not well received either.


Hmmmm..... so it would have been better if I left a rude comment? Not so much, from my perspective. It's better to correct the mistake, than to leave it out there. Although yeah, I probably should have said something to the effect of "edited because I said something I shouldn't have."

I understand the support aspect, I really do. But I'm not so sure what kind of 'support' I can offer, as I'm in a completely different world from most of you. My/our active duty time is far behind us; we're both long retired. Also, when I was active duty, the relationship between active duty women and spouses was.... well, let's just say 'strained.' ;-) I have a few good friends who are spouses, but mostly it was kind of awkward. Hence, my reason for confining my activities on this site to this thread.

Anyhow, I'll go make a formal introduction over in the newbies section. That sounds like a good plan.

Hmmmm..... so it would have been better if I left a rude comment? Not so much, from my perspective. It's better to correct the mistake, than to leave it out there. Although yeah, I probably should have said something to the effect of "edited because I said something I shouldn't have."

I understand the support aspect, I really do. But I'm not so sure what kind of 'support' I can offer, as I'm in a completely different world from most of you. My/our active duty time is far behind us; we're both long retired. Also, when I was active duty, the relationship between active duty women and spouses was.... well, let's just say 'strained.' ;-) I have a few good friends who are spouses, but mostly it was kind of awkward. Hence, my reason for confining my activities on this site to this thread.

Anyhow, I'll go make a formal introduction over in the newbies section. That sounds like a good plan.

If you are not here to offer support to other board members then I really don't think you belong here.

And I think we have a general kind of philosophy here that you should own what you say. If you are going to post it, might as well own it. I would be more respective towards someone saying I was being bitchy and apologizes for it, then someone who edits their post to act like it never got posted. Inevitably its usually viewed by atleast one person before it gets edited, so there's no point in hiding what you say.

:agree

Especially in debates..

But it's cool, I found it for you just in case anyone missed it.. :thumbsup

http://media4.dropshots.com/photos/382145/20080331/173158.jpg (http://www.dropshots.com/)

wow interesting I must say.. thanks for posting that :D

I understand the support aspect, I really do. But I'm not so sure what kind of 'support' I can offer, as I'm in a completely different world from most of you. My/our active duty time is far behind us; we're both long retired.

There are all kinds of people here, including many veterans.

Also, when I was active duty, the relationship between active duty women and spouses was.... well, let's just say 'strained.' ;-) I have a few good friends who are spouses, but mostly it was kind of awkward. Hence, my reason for confining my activities on this site to this thread.

Well, I'd like to think we've come a long way from that. In the time I've been around the military, I have seen nothing but respect between active duty women and spouses. But that could just be my experience. It may be different in other branches, locations.

Hmmmm..... so it would have been better if I left a rude comment? Not so much, from my perspective. It's better to correct the mistake, than to leave it out there. Although yeah, I probably should have said something to the effect of "edited because I said something I shouldn't have."

I understand the support aspect, I really do. But I'm not so sure what kind of 'support' I can offer, as I'm in a completely different world from most of you. My/our active duty time is far behind us; we're both long retired. Also, when I was active duty, the relationship between active duty women and spouses was.... well, let's just say 'strained.' ;-) I have a few good friends who are spouses, but mostly it was kind of awkward. Hence, my reason for confining my activities on this site to this thread.

Anyhow, I'll go make a formal introduction over in the newbies section. That sounds like a good plan.

Nah it is still some what strained LOLZ, coming from a former AD perspective myself it can be awkward. You are not the first person to edit what they said and I doubt you will be the last. I understand this topic is one of interest to you, if you want though check out the rest of the board there are female vets on here as well myself being one of them.

Ladies.... I'm really trying to play nice in the sandbox here. Can you cut me some slack, please?

<~~~ Slack. I am happy to have you here. I don't see anything wrong with you posting here, and I am actually glad you edited out that comment when you realized that it wasn't very nice. We all have our snarky moments and I am not going to hold you to a higher standard than anyone else. Overall you have been very calm and civilized in your posts. So, I don't see a problem with you being here. You saw us mentioned in an article in Newsweek and came here to check it out. I can't fault you for it!

<~~~ Slack. I am happy to have you here. I don't see anything wrong with you posting here, and I am actually glad you edited out that comment when you realized that it wasn't very nice. We all have our snarky moments and I am not going to hold you to a higher standard than anyone else. Overall you have been very calm and civilized in your posts. So, I don't see a problem with you being here. You saw us mentioned in an article in Newsweek and came here to check it out. I can't fault you for it!

Agreed. We have several Vets on here, as Green~Mammy said. I think you have a lot to offer, given the experience you have.

Thanks, guys, I appreciate it. I didn't intend to tinkle in anyone's cornflakes and frankly, I was a little surprised at how easily my intentions were misunderstood, but hopefully I've made the necessary corrections and can do this thing correctly.

Thanks, guys, I appreciate it. I didn't intend to tinkle in anyone's cornflakes and frankly, I was a little surprised at how easily my intentions were misunderstood, but hopefully I've made the necessary corrections and can do this thing correctly.

just realize that we get very close when we suspect someone trying to start drama. welcome.

just realize that we get very close when we suspect someone trying to start drama. welcome.

Thanks.

You know, there's nothing wrong with circling the wagons. ;-) I should have done the intro first, and my failure to do that caused unnecessary grief.

For the record- I bopped into the OPSEC threads, and I have to say, this forum has the right idea about things.

Agreed. We have several Vets on here, as Green~Mammy said. I think you have a lot to offer, given the experience you have.

As you well know Brandi, my husband is a Veteran, so I can certainly relate to her on that part. However, I do have issues with someone being here for the sole purposes of a debate. Like I said earlier, if she's here to be a positive, supportive and contributive member to the boards, then I'll throw out the welcome mat to her.

And if it makes me bitchy to feel the way that I do, then so be it. I know I'm not the only person who feels this way.

I know I'm not the only person who feels this way.

Well, I guess that makes it okay then.

As you well know Brandi, my husband is a Veteran, so I can certainly relate to her on that part. However, I do have issues with someone being here for the sole purposes of a debate. Like I said earlier, if she's here to be a positive, supportive and contributive member to the boards, then I'll throw out the welcome mat to her.

And if it makes me bitchy to feel the way that I do, then so be it. I know I'm not the only person who feels this way.

Can I ask why? The heading of that folder is "Debates;" why wouldn't someone go in there to start a debate? I tried to be very clear on what I was asking, and like I said, I really am interested to hear/read what you all think.

I've introduced myself properly over in the Newbies section (albeit a little late), I've apologized for intruding..... what more would you have me do at this point?

A lot of people follow drama of some sort here. I know I did and I stayed, and now have made friends. So the situation while different because it was a news article that had her finding us is no different then following some other drama to the site. I see no reason to have a chip on our shoulder about her being here.

As you well know Brandi, my husband is a Veteran, so I can certainly relate to her on that part. However, I do have issues with someone being here for the sole purposes of a debate. Like I said earlier, if she's here to be a positive, supportive and contributive member to the boards, then I'll throw out the welcome mat to her.

And if it makes me bitchy to feel the way that I do, then so be it. I know I'm not the only person who feels this way.

I see what you are saying here, but I don't think she joined just to argue. We were mentioned in an international publication because of our debates on the surrogacy issue, with a link to the site, so she was following it. Not the same thing as just joining to fight, KWIM? She saw the article and came to the site because we were mentioned specifically, and posted about the article itself that we were mentioned specifically in. How was she supposed to know that we had no idea we were in the article? :lol

I thought surrogates covered all expenses of the surrogate mother they choice, than the lady is paid for their services. 2 separate issues/payments. No?

Can I ask why? The heading of that folder is "Debates;" why wouldn't someone go in there to start a debate? I tried to be very clear on what I was asking, and like I said, I really am interested to hear/read what you all think.

I've introduced myself properly over in the Newbies section (albeit a little late), I've apologized for intruding..... what more would you have me do at this point?

You don't have to do anything. You can't please everyone ya know and you don't have to keep explaining yourself they can either get to know you or not. Ball is firmly in their court now as too if they give you a chance. I hope you end up liking it here. :) I think the debate topic is an interesting one even if we don't share the same view. Thanks for bringing the article to our attention as well.

I don't have any knowledge on the subject...and am just curious. The example ammount used...30,000$...does a woman really make that much for carrying a child? Wow.

I think that if someone has to go the route of choosing a surrogate due to the inability to have their own children, THEIR policy should take care of the pre-natal and birth care as if you were having the baby on your own.
Just my opinion.

And welcome, Eelo :)

I don't have any knowledge on the subject...and am just curious. The example ammount used...30,000$...does a woman really make that much for carrying a child? Wow.

Some don't even take payment they just ask for medical expenses to be covered.

The payment is for time, cost of getting babysitters, gas driving to and from DR's, and a whole bunch of other things. Becoming a surrogate is not an easy thing. Their is a whole lot more to it then just the pregnancy their is the getting your body ready for implantation and the emotional stress etc.

I think that if someone has to go the route of choosing a surrogate due to the inability to have their own children, THEIR policy should take care of the pre-natal and birth care as if you were having the baby on your own.
Just my opinion.

And welcome, Eelo :)

I am leaning this way as well, but I definitely need to do more research.

Of course, if it were up to me, this wouldn't be an issue. EVERYONE would have healthcare so none of this would matter. :lol

Some don't even take payment they just ask for medical expenses to be covered.

The payment is for time, cost of getting babysitters, gas driving to and from DR's, and a whole bunch of other things. Becoming a surrogate is not an easy thing. Their is a whole lot more to it then just the pregnancy their is the getting your body ready for implantation and the emotional stress etc.

I never even thought about those things. I'm not at all educated about this...I was just curious. I for one don't think I'd be able to be a surrogate. To emotionally tolling, yes? Just my piece. I'm getting out of here now b/c I have nooo idea about surrogacy.

I see what you are saying here, but I don't think she joined just to argue. We were mentioned in an international publication because of our debates on the surrogacy issue, with a link to the site, so she was following it. Not the same thing as just joining to fight, KWIM? She saw the article and came to the site because we were mentioned specifically, and posted about the article itself that we were mentioned specifically in. How was she supposed to know that we had no idea we were in the article? :lol

I can see why you are seeing her side of things Trina. What I expect of any member is that they contribute to the boards in almost every aspect, she mentioned in one of her posts that she didn't feel that she had much "support" to offer, that she came to discuss that specific surrogacy topic. If she has other intentions to be a more contributing member, then great, I'll be glad to see her posts on the boards.

I can see why you are seeing her side of things Trina. What I expect of any member is that they contribute to the boards in almost every aspect, she mentioned in one of her posts that she didn't feel that she had much "support" to offer, that she came to discuss that specific surrogacy topic. If she has other intentions to be a more contributing member, then great, I'll be glad to see her posts on the boards.

Well, I hope she throws herself into the boards in other areas as well. :tu

I am leaning this way as well, but I definitely need to do more research.

Of course, if it were up to me, this wouldn't be an issue. EVERYONE would have healthcare so none of this would matter. :lol

I would have to agree with you there Trina.

I would have to agree with you there Trina.

You are my health care PSM. :giggle

You are my health care PSM. :giggle

:five :yes

I can see why you are seeing her side of things Trina. What I expect of any member is that they contribute to the boards in almost every aspect, she mentioned in one of her posts that she didn't feel that she had much "support" to offer, that she came to discuss that specific surrogacy topic. If she has other intentions to be a more contributing member, then great, I'll be glad to see her posts on the boards.

Give me a chance, okay? C'mon.... I just got here. I didn't expect to have to take "sides" outside of my actual interest.... at least, not in the first day of being a member.

I can see why you are seeing her side of things Trina. What I expect of any member is that they contribute to the boards in almost every aspect, she mentioned in one of her posts that she didn't feel that she had much "support" to offer, that she came to discuss that specific surrogacy topic. If she has other intentions to be a more contributing member, then great, I'll be glad to see her posts on the boards.

Give me a chance, okay? C'mon.... I just got here. I didn't expect to have to take "sides" outside of my actual interest.... at least, not in the first day of being a member.

I don't know what to tell you...I'm blunt and I call em like I see them. First impressions are everything, so its a good idea to make yours count on a positive level.

I am more than willing to give you a chance, as I've already stated, welcome to the boards, I hope you will like it here.

Perhaps you're mis-reading? I just googled USMC Ordinance and even google corrected the spelling. http://www.google.com/search?q=USMC+Ordinance&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SUNA

Not sure what sort of USMC docs would be made available to a spouse, but if you follow that google search, there's an especially interesting link entitled "There's no I in Ordnance!!!"

Whatever. Got anything on the actual topic?
I was never talking to you when the comments about my USER NAME were brought up. In fact it has nothing to even do with you. And I am glad I got to read your actual post before it was edited. My husband has AWARDS that have ORDINANCE on them. Im not stupid so dont come on here and try and talk to me like I am. Documents that come home with my husband for his good workmanship are MY BUISNESS! Go figure!

And also...I know that almost all the time ORDIANCE in the military is ORNANCE. Maybe my husband WHOLE UNIT is STUPID???? Mine has an I in it as a joke between me and my husband that I dont need to explain to anyone.

Hey Kyley... You spelled "business" wrong :poking:mademe:lmao

ETA: My DH is looking into going into an EO division...

Sorry to have kinda flipped out but honestly it made me kinda mad. For someone to just randomly pretty much start calling me an idiot in a round about way...totally not cool. Especially when someone showed the real post :depressed

Hey Kyley... You spelled "business" wrong :poking:mademe:lmao

ETA: My DH is looking into going into an EO division...


:lol

if you are using your body as a business, then your medical expenses should come out of your pocket, not your insurance co's.

if you are using your body as a business, then your medical expenses should come out of your pocket, not your insurance co's.

Wow, that's an interesting, legitimate point. I wonder, though (evil grin)- if the body is the place of business, what do you claim on your taxes as a 'business expense?' Shampoo? Razors? Pads/plugs? Having to get bigger bras and panties? Clunky comfy preggo shoes? ;-)

Seriously- you bring up a good point that I hadn't considered, but it does kinda go along with TriCare recouping costs for prenatal care and delivery, from the payment made to the surrogate.

If a hooker gets an STD, does she have to pay for the treatment out of her pocket or can she use her medical insurance (if she has it?) just playing devil's advocate.

What about if a woman is making money as a prostitute and she's married and she gets an infection or STD? Can she not use the medical coverage provided by her husband?

If we're going to get picky we can get picky.

And...to add on to that...Let's say that you are a pizza delivery man...in essence, your car is your place of business...

If you get into an accident do you pay for it out of your pocket? Or do you use your insurance?

I for one am offended that ANYONE would think that just because we are Military, that we are somehow lesser citizens that, and that we owe them an explanation for what we do with our health insurance...

We pay taxes just like anyone else. The benefits are a perk for being paid so little, and one of the few perks that we have is subjected to scrutiny and judgment because joe shmo tax payer thinks that he owns my policy? So, since technically they are paying our paycheck also, does that mean that they can tell us what we can and can not buy?

And...to add on to that...Let's say that you are a pizza delivery man...in essence, your car is your place of business...

If you get into an accident do you pay for it out of your pocket? Or do you use your insurance?

I for one am offended that ANYONE would think that just because we are Military, that we are somehow lesser citizens that, and that we owe them an explanation for what we do with our health insurance...

We pay taxes just like anyone else. The benefits are a perk for being paid so little, and one of the few perks that we have is subjected to scrutiny and judgment because joe shmo tax payer thinks that he owns my policy? So, since technically they are paying our paycheck also, does that mean that they can tell us what we can and can not buy?

yeah, I absolutely agree with this, as well. The healthcare is part of the benefits we're entitled to and I don't think we need to explain anything to anyone. Unless the insurance policy has a problem with it, I don't see why it's anyone else's concern, honestly.

We pay taxes like everyone else. Our significant others bust their bust just like anyone else who has to work for their health insurance. To say that we are less entitled to anything simply b/c we're military is just wrong!

yeah, I absolutely agree with this, as well. The healthcare is part of the benefits we're entitled to and I don't think we need to explain anything to anyone. Unless the insurance policy has a problem with it, I don't see why it's anyone else's concern, honestly.

We pay taxes like everyone else. Our significant others bust their bust just like anyone else who has to work for their health insurance. To say that we are less entitled to anything simply b/c we're military is just wrong!

I totally agree. If the insurance co is fine then it really doesnt matter and its neither here nor there.

You ever feel like some people in society just don't like us? Ripping us apart for our benefits - hello people our SO's put their lives on the line...DAILY. And you want to say we don't deserve what we've got. Meanwhile half (if not more) of the armed forces families qualify for food stamps. Thanks a whole hellofalot assholes.

I should just step out of this whole thing before I even get started.

I was warned by one of the neighborhood gals that up in the Magnolia district by where we live (just another little part of Seattle), if people see the DoD stickers on your car they'll pop off with some snarky comment or two. I said "Oh bring it." :bringit I have no tolerance for that kind of :poop

And...to add on to that...Let's say that you are a pizza delivery man...in essence, your car is your place of business...

If you get into an accident do you pay for it out of your pocket? Or do you use your insurance?

I for one am offended that ANYONE would think that just because we are Military, that we are somehow lesser citizens that, and that we owe them an explanation for what we do with our health insurance...

We pay taxes just like anyone else. The benefits are a perk for being paid so little, and one of the few perks that we have is subjected to scrutiny and judgment because joe shmo tax payer thinks that he owns my policy? So, since technically they are paying our paycheck also, does that mean that they can tell us what we can and can not buy?

Wow, someone told you that you're less of a citizen because you're military? That sucks. When did that happen? Waht were the circumstances?

But actually, the public does have a certain amount of input into how taxpayer funds are spent. No, they aren't going to have access toyour healthcare file (HIPAA prevents that, in addition to the Privacy Act, and plain common decency), but they do have a right to expect that monies they pay for our health care are being spent wisely.

I think the question, in regard to surrogacy, is that if the client/parents are not military beneficiaries, should they be responsible for the medical costs? I think that's a reasonable request, and whether the money is recouped from the client/parents or the military beneficiary surrogate, well,that's up to TriCare.

I think the medical costs should be covered by the future parents insurance policy since it's their child

And...to add on to that...Let's say that you are a pizza delivery man...in essence, your car is your place of business...

If you get into an accident do you pay for it out of your pocket? Or do you use your insurance?

I for one am offended that ANYONE would think that just because we are Military, that we are somehow lesser citizens that, and that we owe them an explanation for what we do with our health insurance...

We pay taxes just like anyone else. The benefits are a perk for being paid so little, and one of the few perks that we have is subjected to scrutiny and judgment because joe shmo tax payer thinks that he owns my policy? So, since technically they are paying our paycheck also, does that mean that they can tell us what we can and can not buy?

yeah, I absolutely agree with this, as well. The healthcare is part of the benefits we're entitled to and I don't think we need to explain anything to anyone. Unless the insurance policy has a problem with it, I don't see why it's anyone else's concern, honestly.

We pay taxes like everyone else. Our significant others bust their bust just like anyone else who has to work for their health insurance. To say that we are less entitled to anything simply b/c we're military is just wrong!

:agree :tu

I think the medical costs should be covered by the future parents insurance policy since it's their child

I absolutely agree with you, but that would take some legislation in order for it to happen...:banghead