DH's is watching him on CNN right now and Jesse Ventura made the following statement (and I am paraphrasing)

If they build the fence I will climb over it and demonstrate on the opposite side. The fence that is now supposed to keep people out could be used in 10 years to keep people in. And I don't want to live in East Berlin.

Thoughts? Agree or disagree?

I completely agree, it has already started with the requirement of passports to enter or leave while at the same time raising the price of a passport so that most families would not be able to afford passports for all family members.

Absolutely disagree. I hope they build a WALL, not just a fence, and they can put snipers on it while they're at it.

Absolutely disagree. I hope they build a WALL, not just a fence, and they can put snipers on it while they're at it.

Are you serious? :biting

Why? These people, a lot of them my family, come here to have a better life. America is free, because of our soldiers and our government, and they want to be a part of it.

I also agree with what he said about it someday being a fence to keep us in. We are so overly paranoid a lot because of terrorists coming from the outside that we refuse to think about them being from the inside. KKK ring any bells?

Are you serious? :biting

Why? These people, a lot of them my family, come here to have a better life. America is free, because of our soldiers and our government, and they want to be a part of it.

I also agree with what he said about it someday being a fence to keep us in. We are so overly paranoid a lot because of terrorists coming from the outside that we refuse to think about them being from the inside. KKK ring any bells?

i totally totally totally agree with you.
Hell, the parking lot of my school is right up against the border. America is a meltin pot...its was established from ppl from different countries. Hispanic culture has been a big influence here and i think its wonderful. i loove the culture and everything..and i also have family from that region..believe it or not :giggle. but i definitely agree. with bianca

<333333!

These people, a lot of them my family, come here to have a better life. America is free, because of our soldiers and our government, and they want to be a part of it.


"These people?" What people specifically? Illegal immigrants? I have absolutely NO problem with legal immigrants. It's the illegal ones I have an issue with. Those are the ones that would be hindered by a wall.

I'm sure "these people" would be welcomed if they didn't feel the need to walk over the US's borders and break our laws the very first day they come in. Entering this country illegally shows just how little respect "these people" have for the America our soldiers are employed to protect. :sigh

What, because they can't afford a green card? Because they don't know the answers to questions high school graduates couldn't figure out, and because they don't know enough English to please everyone?

Absolutely disagree. I hope they build a WALL, not just a fence, and they can put snipers on it while they're at it.

I am very shocked about this statement. The wall in East Germany was first build to keep OUT the 'bad influences' coming from the West. Or at least that's what East Germans were told. While the whole time the reasoning behind it was to keep East Germans in and islolated. Any country that is willing to do that is not very interested in Democracy and I'd be very worried about the true intentions behind such plans. Should the US ever actually build this wall I would very much consider moving back to Germany.

"These people?" What people specifically? Illegal immigrants? I have absolutely NO problem with legal immigrants. It's the illegal ones I have an issue with. Those are the ones that would be hindered by a wall.

I'm sure "these people" would be welcomed if they didn't feel the need to walk over the US's borders and break our laws the very first day they come in. Entering this country illegally shows just how little respect "these people" have for the America our soldiers are employed to protect. :sigh

Entering this country illegally shows me how much 'these people' wish to be here, they're willing to face the prospect of getting caught and deported. I'm grateful to be blessed to live here and be an American, and even with all out faults (and we have many), we're still the most desired place in the world.

Tell me- what "America" do you believe "...our soldiers are employed to protect....?" What America is that? Could you describe it for me please?

I agree that the wall being up is a danger to all americans and not just illegals its a hinderance to all peoples here good or bad. I believe this because this because it can be used against us just as easily as it could be used to protect us. normally a 50/50 like that would leave me to think that the glass was half full and not so bad, but in this situation I am just not willing to put my freedom that close to line.

in my own personal opinion. a wall, wire tapping, interrogations, etccc go in the same bag of fears and that bag of fears sounds to me a whole lot like when our country had their "war on communism" the results were not good for anyone and i think the results whether you are illegal or not will be not good in this situation either.

dh and i have been discussing it as well and well to be honest should it arise that our country turns into the place it was way back then or it turns into the east west germany situation of old we will be looking into moving out of the country. because then america would have lost all that we have fought for, we would have lost our freedom.

"These people?" What people specifically? Illegal immigrants? I have absolutely NO problem with legal immigrants. It's the illegal ones I have an issue with. Those are the ones that would be hindered by a wall.

I'm sure "these people" would be welcomed if they didn't feel the need to walk over the US's borders and break our laws the very first day they come in. Entering this country illegally shows just how little respect "these people" have for the America our soldiers are employed to protect. :sigh

I absolutly agree with you. If they were to come here legally then they would be welcome. But we need to do all we can to stop those who are illigal aliens. They come here and commit crimes that would have never happened had they never gotten into the country. If they really want to be a part of America then should do it the right way. Get a job, learn english. Be a productive part of America.

I absolutly agree with you. If they were to come here legally then they would be welcome. But we need to do all we can to stop those who are illigal aliens. They come here and commit crimes that would have never happened had they never gotten into the country. If they really want to be a part of America then should do it the right way. Get a job, learn english. Be a productive part of America.

Do you have any idea how difficult and expensive the whole immigration process is? And to say that all illegal aliens are here to simply commit crimes and that the current crime rate is to be blamed on 'those who are illegal aliens' is a very ignorant statement.

I think that there should be some tough immigration laws. I dont know about a fence or wall though.

I think it gets to the point where I get upset when people who are not here legeally get more things from our government than I do.

What, because they can't afford a green card? Because they don't know the answers to questions high school graduates couldn't figure out, and because they don't know enough English to please everyone?



What gives them the right to sneak into our country. People have been coming to this country for years legally.
My family imigrated from Ireland. They were a poor family who was leaving the only thing they ever knew. But they paid their way. When they got here they learned the language, they worked, and they became a productive part of America.

What happens a lot of times now is they come here illegally, they do not learn the language, and they are able to take advantage of public aide and medicare. They have baby after baby because maybe they will get to stay here. I have seen this with my own eyes.

I am not saying that there are not those who are productive even though they are illegal aliens. But what they need to do is make it legal that they are here.

"These people?" What people specifically? Illegal immigrants? I have absolutely NO problem with legal immigrants. It's the illegal ones I have an issue with. Those are the ones that would be hindered by a wall.

I'm sure "these people" would be welcomed if they didn't feel the need to walk over the US's borders and break our laws the very first day they come in. Entering this country illegally shows just how little respect "these people" have for the America our soldiers are employed to protect. :sigh

I don't think it shows there disrespect I think it shows there desperation. IMO, we need to remember that unless you are 100% native American, you came from immigrants, and I would put money on the fact most of the just came here. Yes, recent immigrants went through the paper work, but most of us, our ancestors bought a boat ticket and just arrived.:thinking
Also, if we were going to build a fence we probably should have done way back when we sign the treaty of Guadalupe-Hildago which gave us most of Southwest US.:lmao
I thing that has made America strong is we do take in immigrants and we take the best parts of different countries and use it for our greatness. :yes

Do you have any idea how difficult and expensive the whole immigration process is? And to say that all illegal aliens are here to simply commit crimes and that the current crime rate is to be blamed on 'those who are illegal aliens' is a very ignorant statement.

I am not saying that ALL illegals are here to commit crimes or are to blame for the crime rate going up. I will say that the first thing they do by coming here is illegal unless they come the right way. Americans have do a good job of driving up the crime rate on their own. What I am saying is that the crimes that have been commited by illegal aliens could have been prevented had they not been in this country to begain with.

So you are saying that just because it is hard and expensive we should just let them come here without a way to track them, without a way to make sure they are not criminals terrorist? There are laws in place to protect and should be followed. There are channels you have to go through for a reason. It is to protect us from the criminals, even though the % is low, that would want to immigrate along with those who are not criminals.

I don't have a problem with LEGAL immigrants, but with illegal I do. If people want to come here LEGALLY then let them. But otherwise something needs to be done. And immigration may be expesnive but I think that it needs to be done. People from other parts of the world come here LEGALLY so why shouldn't EVERYBODY?

I think that there should be some tough immigration laws. I dont know about a fence or wall though.

I think it gets to the point where I get upset when people who are not here legeally get more things from our government than I do.

Amen.

First of all, they are NOT aliens, they are HUMANS :rolleyes, I Hate when people use that word. They are not creatures from another planet, they are living breathing feeling humans who are seeking a better life for their family. I have a lot of opinions on this, but I will keep these to myself because I don't really feel like getting into it right now, my views about immigrants are a bit radical, I don't think many people here would understand.

But what I do have to say is, a wall will never be built, why?
1. The gov't couldn't even build some freaking levy's for New Orleans, are you kidding me? Now suddenly they are going to build a wall that spans thousands of miles?

2. Even if they built a wall, it's not going to stop anyone, a wall is a BIG giant band-aid, it WILL be ripped off. They need to deal with the actual problem, not try to slap some tape on it.

3. Can we say manpower? Who the hell is going to build this wall? Better yet, the people that WOULD build this wall for the wages that they probably want to pay, are on the OTHER side of that wall :lol.

First of all, they are NOT aliens, they are HUMANS :rolleyes, I Hate when people use that word. They are not creatures from another planet, they are living breathing feeling humans who are seeking a better life for their family. I have a lot of opinions on this, but I will keep these to myself because I don't really feel like getting into it right now.

But what I do have to say is, a wall will never be built, why?
1. The gov't couldn't even build some freaking levy's for New Orleans, are you kidding me? Now suddenly they are going to build a wall that spans thousands of miles?

2. Even if they built a wall, it's not going to stop anyone, a wall is a BIG giant band-aid, it WILL be ripped off. They need to deal with the actual problem, not try to slap some tape on it.

3. Can we say manpower? Who the hell is going to build this wall? Better yet, the people that WOULD build this wall for the wages that they probably want to pay, are on the OTHER side of that wall :lol.

I agree with your wall stuff!

What gives them the right to sneak into our country. People have been coming to this country for years legally.
My family imigrated from Ireland. They were a poor family who was leaving the only thing they ever knew. But they paid their way. When they got here they learned the language, they worked, and they became a productive part of America.

What happens a lot of times now is they come here illegally, they do not learn the language, and they are able to take advantage of public aide and medicare. They have baby after baby because maybe they will get to stay here. I have seen this with my own eyes.

I am not saying that there are not those who are productive even though they are illegal aliens. But what they need to do is make it legal that they are here.

Not to a be a smart..OK I am trying to be a smart ass...You mentioned you family came from Ireland and learned the language...They speak English in Ireland:wink

Also, when you go to get medicare and welfare, or any other public aid, you have to have a social security card to prove you are a citizen. If you are illegal, the LAST place you want to be is a place where you have to be a citizen.

Before we begin to castigate these immigrants for taking advantage of our services, lets not forget that for the most part the pay taxes, not just fed tax, but sales tax, which funds many of the programs of which they are "taking advantage".

IIMO, we need to remember that unless you are 100% native American, you came from immigrants, and I would put money on the fact most of the just came here. Yes, recent immigrants went through the paper work, but most of us, our ancestors bought a boat ticket and just arrived.:thinking


Yes when this country was founded people did just buy a ticket and came. But then they made immigration laws. You had to pay to come and you went through Ellis Island. There has to be regulations and laws for protection against those that might not becoming with good intentions.

I am not saying that ALL illegals are here to commit crimes or are to blame for the crime rate going up. I will say that the first thing they do by coming here is illegal unless they come the right way. Americans have do a good job of driving up the crime rate on their own. What I am saying is that the crimes that have been commited by illegal aliens could have been prevented had they not been in this country to begain with.

So you are saying that just because it is hard and expensive we should just let them come here without a way to track them, without a way to make sure they are not criminals terrorist? There are laws in place to protect and should be followed. There are channels you have to go through for a reason. It is to protect us from the criminals, even though the % is low, that would want to immigrate along with those who are not criminals.

What I am saying is that those coming here as terrorists most of the time come here legally anyway. So how does that deter them? If someone moves to the US who is a terrorist I doubt they'd just say 'hey look at me I'm a terrorist'. On the contrary, they will do everything in their power to do it the legal way and to avoid attention at any cost. The fear that has been created of terrorism is very much exaggerated by the media and the current government. A wall will not keep terrorists out.

I don't think it shows there disrespect I think it shows there desperation. IMO, we need to remember that unless you are 100% native American, you came from immigrants, and I would put money on the fact most of the just came here. Yes, recent immigrants went through the paper work, but most of us, our ancestors bought a boat ticket and just arrived.:thinking
Also, if we were going to build a fence we probably should have done way back when we sign the treaty of Guadalupe-Hildago which gave us most of Southwest US.:lmao
I thing that has made America strong is we do take in immigrants and we take the best parts of different countries and use it for our greatness. :yes

thank you and i completely agree with on pretty much everything you said.



First of all, they are NOT aliens, they are HUMANS :rolleyes, I Hate when people use that word. They are not creatures from another planet, they are living breathing feeling humans who are seeking a better life for their family. I have a lot of opinions on this, but I will keep these to myself because I don't really feel like getting into it right now, my views about immigrants are a bit radical, I don't think many people here would understand.

But what I do have to say is, a wall will never be built, why?
1. The gov't couldn't even build some freaking levy's for New Orleans, are you kidding me? Now suddenly they are going to build a wall that spans thousands of miles?

2. Even if they built a wall, it's not going to stop anyone, a wall is a BIG giant band-aid, it WILL be ripped off. They need to deal with the actual problem, not try to slap some tape on it.

3. Can we say manpower? Who the hell is going to build this wall? Better yet, the people that WOULD build this wall for the wages that they probably want to pay, are on the OTHER side of that wall :lol.

thank you too because what you said is completely true in my opinion as well.

the thing for me is that is not just an issue over immigration its about losing some of our freedom as well. some people are so determined to keep out the bad they don't see that they are in fact locking in themselves.

personally i do not want to get into a battle over who should or should not be in the usa. but i will say this. when we were living in the homeless shelter in brownsville texas we got to see first hand what some people go through to get here. one of the ladies there paid for all her mexican paperwork to get her visa and then got raped and then they gave her the papers. they did this with the promise that if she did not forward more money to them after she got here that she would need to worry about her family still in mexico. there were a ton of other stories that we got to hear and several of them that came in so completely beaten and or raped trying to get across the border that their first night in america was spent in a hospital bed praying they did not get sent back.

the horror stories about how illegals get here are not oh they just walked or swam here and its no biggie. if there had been a concievable way for them to actually get here i imagine they would do it. i certainly would not want to get raped or beaten or have my family in fear forever to get here. it does not sound so easy to me.

ok so i rambled please forgive me.

Not to a be a smart..OK I am trying to be a smart ass...You mentioned you family came from Ireland and learned the language...They speak English in Ireland:wink

Also, when you go to get medicare and welfare, or any other public aid, you have to have a social security card to prove you are a citizen. If you are illegal, the LAST place you want to be is a place where you have to be a citizen.

Before we begin to castigate these immigrants for taking advantage of our services, lets not forget that for the most part the pay taxes, not just fed tax, but sales tax, which funds many of the programs of which they are "taking advantage".

I am sure that you are right about the language part. I believe however that there was a time when there was Irish or Gaelic spoken there. It would have been about the time that my family would have some so I could be right about that part. I will have to do a little more reaserch. Thanks for pointing that out.

About the government aide. This past year after dh was out of the navy and waiting for his job to start we were without medical for Eric. I thought that he would have qualified for Peachcare but they said no he can get medicare. So I went and filled out the paper work. And low and behold what does it say on the bottom of the application. This is not word for word but in a nut shell it says that if you are an illegal imigrant you will not be turned in to Homeland Security. I was having to jump through hoops as an American to get help after 15 yrs of paying taxes. But the illegals can come in there and get help. When I asked about this I was told all I could do was write a letter. I just know what I have been through.

What I am saying is that those coming here as terrorists most of the time come here legally anyway. So how does that deter them? If someone moves to the US who is a terrorist I doubt they'd just say 'hey look at me I'm a terrorist'. On the contrary, they will do everything in their power to do it the legal way and to avoid attention at any cost. The fear that has been created of terrorism is very much exaggerated by the media and the current government. A wall will not keep terrorists out.

For the most part I am talking about the illegals that have killed people. Like in VA an illegal man was driving drunk and killed two young ladies in the accident. That could have been avoinded. I am talking more about the everyday crime then terrorists.

For the most part I am talking about the illegals that have killed people. Like in VA an illegal man was driving drunk and killed two young ladies in the accident. That could have been avoinded. I am talking more about the everyday crime then terrorists.

But that illegal person accidentally killing someone might just as well have been a legal immigrant or a US citizen. Not allowing immigration or demonizing illegals will not solve that problem.

I just watched a national geographic on illegal immigration specifically on the mexican border. Let's just say it infuriates me that there are places like Nogales (which is a town on both sides of the border) there is a fence that runs through town and on both sides for about three miles and then just ends. Sure they've got border patrol sitting at the ends but really it's not working, people are still coming through and then get lost in the city. Yes I feel sorry for those who are coming to this country in search of a better life but do it right, get a work visa. You are paying $4,000 for a caravan to the border anyway so just save some more and then come get a work visa. I know it's not that easy but really build the damn wall and keep the illegal immigrants OUT! come here legally fine i don't care but illegally i do have a problem with

"These people?" What people specifically? Illegal immigrants? I have absolutely NO problem with legal immigrants. It's the illegal ones I have an issue with. Those are the ones that would be hindered by a wall.

I'm sure "these people" would be welcomed if they didn't feel the need to walk over the US's borders and break our laws the very first day they come in. Entering this country illegally shows just how little respect "these people" have for the America our soldiers are employed to protect. :sigh



When you have people working for 10 or 15 years to enter this country the legal it is terrible to just give amnesty to those who have no respect for US law. Illegal immigration has boosted our economy, it keeps our fruit prices low in cali, but
Tolerance of illegal immigration demonstrates to the entire world that
it is acceptable to break federal us law

For the most part I am talking about the illegals that have killed people. Like in VA an illegal man was driving drunk and killed two young ladies in the accident. That could have been avoinded. I am talking more about the everyday crime then terrorists.

This happened in my town; one of the girls was the daughter of a coworker.

The ISSUE here is DRUNK DRIVING, not that the driver was illegal. The driver has an extensive history of drunk driving arrests and convictions and no judge, in any of the three cities where he was cited, felt he should be jailed. That's a breakdown in the legal system.

The Anti-Immigration crowd jumped on this and made it a huge story about illegals being here. That's crap. Even the girls' families have said the issue is DRUMK DRIVING, and they have asked that people not politicize the deaths of their girls by turning it into an immigration issue. Please respect the wishes of the families and keept his issue where it belongs.

you know something, this is a debate that goes around and around

I absolutly agree with you. If they were to come here legally then they would be welcome. But we need to do all we can to stop those who are illigal aliens. They come here and commit crimes that would have never happened had they never gotten into the country. If they really want to be a part of America then should do it the right way. Get a job, learn english. Be a productive part of America.

100%:agree

Tell me- what "America" do you believe "...our soldiers are employed to protect....?" What America is that? Could you describe it for me please?

The America that follows the rules of LEGAL Immigration. Laws are in place to protect the citizens of our country. Yes, I agree that all should be welcome in the United States - but go the LEGAL Route.

The America that follows the rules of LEGAL Immigration. Laws are in place to protect the citizens of our country. Yes, I agree that all should be welcome in the United States - but go the LEGAL Route.

:agree

This happened in my town; one of the girls was the daughter of a coworker.

The ISSUE here is DRUNK DRIVING, not that the driver was illegal. The driver has an extensive history of drunk driving arrests and convictions and no judge, in any of the three cities where he was cited, felt he should be jailed. That's a breakdown in the legal system.

The Anti-Immigration crowd jumped on this and made it a huge story about illegals being here. That's crap. Even the girls' families have said the issue is DRUMK DRIVING, and they have asked that people not politicize the deaths of their girls by turning it into an immigration issue. Please respect the wishes of the families and keept his issue where it belongs.

There are more then just this story. But the truth remains that had he not been here then this would not have happened. I will agree that there are two issues here. Drunk driving and illegal immigration.

Not to a be a smart..OK I am trying to be a smart ass...You mentioned you family came from Ireland and learned the language...They speak English in Ireland:wink



Gaelic is still a spoken language in Ireland. There are still villages that only speak Gaelic there. :wink

Do you have any idea how difficult and expensive the whole immigration process is?

I have no doubt that it probably is an expensive and ridiculous process to go through. But what about those immigrants that actually DO follow the law to become a legal citizen? I'm sure not not all of them were able to just fork over the cash for it, some probably had to work their ass off for years to be able to afford it. But it's kind of like a slap in the face to those that try to do the right and legal way to enter the country; and the US is allowing people to enter illegally with not much consequence.

I am sure that you are right about the language part. I believe however that there was a time when there was Irish or Gaelic spoken there. It would have been about the time that my family would have some so I could be right about that part. I will have to do a little more reaserch. Thanks for pointing that out.

About the government aide. This past year after dh was out of the navy and waiting for his job to start we were without medical for Eric. I thought that he would have qualified for Peachcare but they said no he can get medicare. So I went and filled out the paper work. And low and behold what does it say on the bottom of the application. This is not word for word but in a nut shell it says that if you are an illegal imigrant you will not be turned in to Homeland Security. I was having to jump through hoops as an American to get help after 15 yrs of paying taxes. But the illegals can come in there and get help. When I asked about this I was told all I could do was write a letter. I just know what I have been through.

Actually Gaelic was a forbidden language in Ireland for a while. (when England controlled the whole country of Ireland) When they began immigrating from Ireland they spoke English because it had been forced on them all ready by tyrannical rulers.

As for the bottom bit of your post the reason they put that in there is because ALL children deserve medical care citizen or undocumented ALL children deserve medical treatment if needed.

[QUOTE=silent_earth;2181480]Gaelic is still a spoken language in Ireland. There are still villages that only speak Gaelic there. :wink QUOTE]

Thank you. I thought that was the case but the babies were getting up from their nap so I could not google it.

[QUOTE=Green~Mammy;2181682

As for the bottom bit of your post the reason they put that in there is because ALL children deserve medical care citizen or undocumented ALL children deserve medical treatment if needed.[/QUOTE]

I understand. BUT there should be consequences for our actions. You come to this country illegally and are found out then you should have to live with the consequence of being sent home. The illegals should not be protected from those consequences.

Well like I always tell my husband a innocent CHILD should never be set as in example for a parents mistake. By refusing treatment to CHILDREN it would be punishing them for something their parents did and my little socialist heart just can not stomach that.

What I am saying is that those coming here as terrorists most of the time come here legally anyway. So how does that deter them? If someone moves to the US who is a terrorist I doubt they'd just say 'hey look at me I'm a terrorist'. On the contrary, they will do everything in their power to do it the legal way and to avoid attention at any cost. The fear that has been created of terrorism is very much exaggerated by the media and the current government. A wall will not keep terrorists out.

:yes

I also agree with the analogy about the Berlin wall. Very true, very possible, but most American's and especially the US government are very short sighted, and do not think about things from a historical perspective.

I do agree that the immigration process needs to be made more accessible, and with some form of amnesty for the ones all ready here, provided they meet certain criteria. If it were easier, more people would come here, the "right way"

Also, if we, one of the world's super-powers invested more in the governments of our neighbors, instead of the war... (which does need to be finished and exited out of correctly so now the money spent cannot be avoided, but that is another thread) there would not be such a "rush" on the boarder, because the incentive would be less to come here, if their home economy was better, and there were more opportunities for them to stay put.

What gives them the right to sneak into our country. People have been coming to this country for years legally.
My family imigrated from Ireland. They were a poor family who was leaving the only thing they ever knew. But they paid their way. When they got here they learned the language, they worked, and they became a productive part of America.

What happens a lot of times now is they come here illegally, they do not learn the language, and they are able to take advantage of public aide and medicare. They have baby after baby because maybe they will get to stay here. I have seen this with my own eyes.

I am not saying that there are not those who are productive even though they are illegal aliens. But what they need to do is make it legal that they are here.



Yet natural born Americans do the same damn thing you just said most hispanics do. I know so many people who were born here who don't have jobs and pop out baby after baby for welfare and medicaid even though they are not fit to be parents.
And if you know traditional Mexicans, like those in my family, they are much too proud to ask anyone for help. They'd rather work their asses off than ask for charity.

For the most part I am talking about the illegals that have killed people. Like in VA an illegal man was driving drunk and killed two young ladies in the accident. That could have been avoinded. I am talking more about the everyday crime then terrorists.

Well, now... So all drunk driving accidents were the fault of illegal immigrants? Cos I'm sure there have been some white ones, and some black ones, and other races who have driven drunk and killed someone. That is not a legit reason for talking about all the "killings" illgal immigrants do, for these "killings" are done by Americans too.

EDIT: THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS! I personally find much offense reading "Illegal" or "Illegals" to describe them.

The America that follows the rules of LEGAL Immigration. Laws are in place to protect the citizens of our country. Yes, I agree that all should be welcome in the United States - but go the LEGAL Route.

And you believe that our soldiers are charged with enforcing this law?

Yet natural born Americans do the same damn thing you just said most hispanics do. I know so many people who were born here who don't have jobs and pop out baby after baby for welfare and medicaid even though they are not fit to be parents.
And if you know traditional Mexicans, like those in my family, they are much too proud to ask anyone for help. They'd rather work their asses off than ask for charity.



Well, now... So all drunk driving accidents were the fault of illegal immigrants? Cos I'm sure there have been some white ones, and some black ones, and other races who have driven drunk and killed someone. That is not a legit reason for talking about all the "killings" illgal immigrants do, for these "killings" are done by Americans too.

EDIT: THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS! I personally find much offense reading "Illegal" or "Illegals" to describe them.

I am not saying that every dd accident is the fault of illegal immigrants. I am saying that the accidents and crimes that some illegal immigrants are responsible for were avoidable if our laws about immigaration were upheld and obeyed.

The same goes for, lets say a prisoner who was given life for rape or murder but he is peroled because of over crowding. Now when he goes out and kills or rapes another person that is a crime that was avoidable by keeping him in prison where he belonged in the first place. He should not have been out in the first place.

I am in no way saying that all hispanics are evil or bad or the cause of all America's problems. My stepgrandmother is Mexican and I love her. I am saying that if you want to come to this country you should come the right way. And if not and you should not get the benefits of our government and you should have to face the consequencec of breaking the immigration laws.

Undocumented person does not equal Hispanic! There are undocumented people living in America from all over the globe. That is all.

I think the wall thing is a crock of shit. If we build a 10 foot wall, they're gonna use 11 foot ladders. :dunno

I don't have a problem with people wanting to come to this country... but I do agree that it needs to be done legally, for EVERYONE'S sake. Maybe what we need to look at is making the LEGAL entry process a bit easier. That way we at least can document who is living on our soil, and cover our own hineys a little bit better.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a better life for your family. Hell, a good chunk of immigrants only stay temporarily- till they can make enough money to live a decent life wherever they're from.

My grandma emigrated here from Norway in 1947... she passed through Ellis Island and busted her ass to become a legal, documented, productive citizen.

I think we need to reform our immigration rules and make it easier to become a legal US resident. At least then we'll know who is on our soil.

I think the wall thing is a crock of shit. If we build a 10 foot wall, they're gonna use 11 foot ladders. :dunno

I don't have a problem with people wanting to come to this country... but I do agree that it needs to be done legally, for EVERYONE'S sake. Maybe what we need to look at is making the LEGAL entry process a bit easier. That way we at least can document who is living on our soil, and cover our own hineys a little bit better.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a better life for your family. Hell, a good chunk of immigrants only stay temporarily- till they can make enough money to live a decent life wherever they're from.

My grandma emigrated here from Norway in 1947... she passed through Ellis Island and busted her ass to become a legal, documented, productive citizen.

I think we need to reform our immigration rules and make it easier to become a legal US resident. At least then we'll know who is on our soil.

As for first bolded: Therein lies the difference btwn what YOU are talking about, and what I am talking about when I say build a wall to keep illegals out.

Second bolded: ABSOLUTELY AGREE. 100%. However, we need to stop the INFLUX before we naturalize everyone else. It SHOULD be way easier than it is to become a citizen however. :yes

I would like to say that the fact that they are bypassing so many laws to make this wall happen just ticks me off since many of them are environmental laws! :biting:hissyfit

Do you have any idea how difficult and expensive the whole immigration process is? And to say that all illegal aliens are here to simply commit crimes and that the current crime rate is to be blamed on 'those who are illegal aliens' is a very ignorant statement.

I know im a little late on this but..i agree with this statement made. Thats the main reason for so many ppl being illegal..they want to come here to the good opportunities we have..and i understand we're a growing population and we all need jobs to support our families..but they are apart of that and they have families they want to take care of..and i understand it would b more accepted if they were legal..but if they arent getting alot or enough money to support their family then how are they gonna get the money to be legal...it would have to be over an amount of time to go through legalization. They come here cuz we're supposed to be a melting pot..and i understand that those coming from the mexican border are more widely seen but there are so mnay ppl from all over who cant afford the legalization and all that right away. I just wanted to say something on that statement ^^ cuz its true :yes half of my family is from the philippines and that was the issue they had..is that they had to save up a long time and wait till they could get the process started and get over here.
:) :carryon :) just my opinion hah

<3333333!

Do you have any idea how difficult and expensive the whole immigration process is? And to say that all illegal aliens are here to simply commit crimes and that the current crime rate is to be blamed on 'those who are illegal aliens' is a very ignorant statement.

I'm sorry but I just have to point out (and giggle as I do so) that every single illegal immigrant to the US has in fact committed at least one offense against US laws. Hence the term illegal. :rofl I do understand what you mean though, that some may be productive and law-abiding past that original offense. :D

thank you and i completely agree with on pretty much everything you said.





thank you too because what you said is completely true in my opinion as well.

the thing for me is that is not just an issue over immigration its about losing some of our freedom as well. some people are so determined to keep out the bad they don't see that they are in fact locking in themselves.

personally i do not want to get into a battle over who should or should not be in the usa. but i will say this. when we were living in the homeless shelter in brownsville texas we got to see first hand what some people go through to get here. one of the ladies there paid for all her mexican paperwork to get her visa and then got raped and then they gave her the papers. they did this with the promise that if she did not forward more money to them after she got here that she would need to worry about her family still in mexico. there were a ton of other stories that we got to hear and several of them that came in so completely beaten and or raped trying to get across the border that their first night in america was spent in a hospital bed praying they did not get sent back.

the horror stories about how illegals get here are not oh they just walked or swam here and its no biggie. if there had been a concievable way for them to actually get here i imagine they would do it. i certainly would not want to get raped or beaten or have my family in fear forever to get here. it does not sound so easy to me.

ok so i rambled please forgive me.


:yes. that is where i will be living here soon..and thats where ALOT of my friends live and exDF's family. and his mom has been there all her life and her family came from mexico and all that and lord is she an amazing woman filled with awesome stories..not that that has to do with the illegal thing...just wanted to add :)..but that is definitely something to see..brownsville is right up against the border...as i said before the university is next to it...and those living there you can see how awesome that town has built up. and you have to know that alot of them have come from mexico...its a wonderful place..and alot of those that cross legally just wanna make it here..and alot do have to intention on going to become legal. I dont know..i just wanted to add some things :)

<333333!

I really was going to stay out of here, I have a migraine and some of these posts...

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/26/7295/
SAN FRANCISCO - Immigrants are far less likely than the average U.S.-born citizen to commit crime in California, the most populous state in the United States, according to a report issued late on Monday.0226 07

People born outside the United States make up about 35 percent of California’s adult population but account for about 17 percent of the adult prison population, the report by the Public Policy Institute of California showed.

According to the report’s authors the findings suggest that long-standing fears of immigration as a threat to public safety are unjustified. The report also noted that U.S.-born adult men are incarcerated at a rate more than 2 1/2 times greater than that of foreign-born men.

I really was going to stay out of here, I have a migraine and some of these posts...

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/26/7295/
SAN FRANCISCO - Immigrants are far less likely than the average U.S.-born citizen to commit crime in California, the most populous state in the United States, according to a report issued late on Monday.0226 07

People born outside the United States make up about 35 percent of California’s adult population but account for about 17 percent of the adult prison population, the report by the Public Policy Institute of California showed.

According to the report’s authors the findings suggest that long-standing fears of immigration as a threat to public safety are unjustified. The report also noted that U.S.-born adult men are incarcerated at a rate more than 2 1/2 times greater than that of foreign-born men.

Sorry, but that is untrue to my knowledge. Every single illegal immigrant with no exception is here ILLEGALLY, thus making every single illegal immigrant someone that has commited a crime. Right? Or is there something I am not understanding about the law? (seriously asking)

Sorry, but that is untrue to my knowledge. Every single illegal immigrant with no exception is here ILLEGALLY, thus making every single illegal immigrant someone that has commited a crime. Right? Or is there something I am not understanding about the law? (seriously asking)

ru saying they have commited a crime because they are here ILLEGALLY? im just wondering..i was just trying to better understand ur question :D

thanks :)

<33333333!

Well in that case we are all criminals

Have you ever rolled thru a stop sign?
Jaywalked?
Had sex in position other than missionary? (according some some states)
Parked in a no parking zone?

Well in that case we are all criminals

Have you ever rolled thru a stop sign?
Jaywalked?
Had sex in position other than missionary? (according some some states)
Parked in a no parking zone?

Werd

First of all, they are NOT aliens, they are HUMANS :rolleyes, I Hate when people use that word. They are not creatures from another planet, they are living breathing feeling humans who are seeking a better life for their family. I have a lot of opinions on this, but I will keep these to myself because I don't really feel like getting into it right now, my views about immigrants are a bit radical, I don't think many people here would understand.

But what I do have to say is, a wall will never be built, why?
1. The gov't couldn't even build some freaking levy's for New Orleans, are you kidding me? Now suddenly they are going to build a wall that spans thousands of miles?

2. Even if they built a wall, it's not going to stop anyone, a wall is a BIG giant band-aid, it WILL be ripped off. They need to deal with the actual problem, not try to slap some tape on it.

3. Can we say manpower? Who the hell is going to build this wall? Better yet, the people that WOULD build this wall for the wages that they probably want to pay, are on the OTHER side of that wall :lol.



Yes they are aliens by the Immigration service and by the dictionary!


al·ien Audio Help /ˈeɪlyən, ˈeɪliən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[eyl-yuhn, ey-lee-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).
2. a foreigner.
3. a person who has been estranged or excluded.
4. a creature from outer space; extraterrestrial.
–adjective 5. residing under a government or in a country other than that of one's birth without having or obtaining the status of citizenship there.
6. belonging or relating to aliens: alien property.
7. unlike one's own; strange; not belonging to one: alien speech.
8. adverse; hostile; opposed (usually fol. by to or from): ideas alien to modern thinking.

www.dictionary.com

Well in that case we are all criminals

Have you ever rolled thru a stop sign?
Jaywalked?
Had sex in position other than missionary? (according some some states)
Parked in a no parking zone?
And now we are splitting hairs. :thinking

And even in that case the article's information is still incorrect, since 100% of illegal immigrants are thus criminals, making them still more likely to have commited a crime, since not every US citizen has done those things. :yes

I was just pointing that out. :D Am I confused on this or is being an illegal immigrant not a serious federal offense whereas the ones you mentioned would be misdemeanors IF that? If so that means I'm way less of a criminal. :rofl :D

And now we are splitting hairs. :thinking

And even in that case the article's information is still incorrect, since 100% of illegal immigrants are thus criminals, making them still more likely to have commited a crime, since not every US citizen has done those things. :yes

I was just pointing that out. :D Am I confused on this or is being an illegal immigrant not a serious federal offense whereas the ones you mentioned would be misdemeanors IF that? If so that means I'm way less of a criminal. :rofl :D

I know that was sort of my point:D

I posted the article to address what someone else posted about Illegal immigrants causing most crimes. By that I am talking crimes involving murder and mayhem

We know a crime was made by entering the US illegally. But for the most part after the entered, they become law abiding citizens that work hard and try to stay under the radar to avoid deportation.

Yes they are aliens by the Immigration service and by the dictionary!


al·ien Audio Help /ˈeɪlyən, ˈeɪliən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[eyl-yuhn, ey-lee-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).
2. a foreigner.
3. a person who has been estranged or excluded.
4. a creature from outer space; extraterrestrial.
–adjective 5. residing under a government or in a country other than that of one's birth without having or obtaining the status of citizenship there.
6. belonging or relating to aliens: alien property.
7. unlike one's own; strange; not belonging to one: alien speech.
8. adverse; hostile; opposed (usually fol. by to or from): ideas alien to modern thinking.

www.dictionary.com

i do not care for the term either. and sadly if we go by all of this i can honestly say that i fall under number 3 and part of number 7 and when we lived in germany i fell under number 5 and for a great many things i fall under number 8. so guess that makes me an alien too.






Well in that case we are all criminals

Have you ever rolled thru a stop sign?
Jaywalked?
Had sex in position other than missionary? (according some some states)
Parked in a no parking zone?

yeah what she said! especially that third one !

on another note! this started out as a thread about the stupid wall they want to build to "keep out illegals" and keep us confined in here, and has turned into illegal mexicans should not be here or should have came in the right way etc... and i am sorry but when you live in a country who pretty much rely on the mafia and drug lords to make laws and pass judgement not to mention the federalies ( spelling sorry) that do whatever they want, the legal process for them on their side is not fair and sometimes hazardous to their health and can be extremely expensive depending on what official they have to bribe, so coming here legally is sometimes not an option. i sympathize with them because i have been in their country and not in the tourist traps the country sets up for us to see the rosy side of mexico i have been in a few parts that is absolutely devastatingly poor. my personal opinion is that we should offer them actual help. and it is ignorant to think that they cause all the crime or even a majority of it in the U.S. in fact it is the same mentality that some people used when slaves were prevalent in the U.S. its a shame that once again our country has this bertha better than you stand point and actually believes that the one country in the world founded on immigrants and nurtured by many other immigrants is to pea headed to see that closing ourselves off with a fence is just stupid. its snobbish and i hate it.

sorry but that is honestly how i feel.

i do not care for the term either. and sadly if we go by all of this i can honestly say that i fall under number 3 and part of number 7 and when we lived in germany i fell under number 5 and for a great many things i fall under number 8. so guess that makes me an alien too.








yeah what she said! especially that third one !

on another note! this started out as a thread about the stupid wall they want to build to "keep out illegals" and keep us confined in here, and has turned into illegal mexicans should not be here or should have came in the right way etc... and i am sorry but when you live in a country who pretty much rely on the mafia and drug lords to make laws and pass judgement not to mention the federalies ( spelling sorry) that do whatever they want, the legal process for them on their side is not fair and sometimes hazardous to their health and can be extremely expensive depending on what official they have to bribe, so coming here legally is sometimes not an option. i sympathize with them because i have been in their country and not in the tourist traps the country sets up for us to see the rosy side of mexico i have been in a few parts that is absolutely devastatingly poor. my personal opinion is that we should offer them actual help. and it is ignorant to think that they cause all the crime or even a majority of it in the U.S. in fact it is the same mentality that some people used when slaves were prevalent in the U.S. its a shame that once again our country has this bertha better than you stand point and actually believes that the one country in the world founded on immigrants and nurtured by many other immigrants is to pea headed to see that closing ourselves off with a fence is just stupid. its snobbish and i hate it.

sorry but that is honestly how i feel.

Well the government doesnt care that you dont like the term! :)

There is citizens or aliens. :)

And now we are splitting hairs. :thinking

And even in that case the article's information is still incorrect, since 100% of illegal immigrants are thus criminals, making them still more likely to have commited a crime, since not every US citizen has done those things. :yes

I was just pointing that out. :D Am I confused on this or is being an illegal immigrant not a serious federal offense whereas the ones you mentioned would be misdemeanors IF that? If so that means I'm way less of a criminal. :rofl :D


Well, I'm not sure. when, exactly, was this made a "federal offense?" What was the reasoning behind making this one step a "fecderal offense?" Was it a knee-jerk response to something, that some media talking head decided was his personal stiffie, and now we've suddenly made it a "federal offense" to cross the border? Because you know, the original intent was "Bring me your cold, your poor, your tired massesm yearning to be free......."

When did that change? And really, what was the impetus behind that change? WHEN did it become a "federal offense?"

Well, I'm not sure. when, exactly, was this made a "federal offense?" What was the reasoning behind making this one step a "fecderal offense?" Was it a knee-jerk response to something, that some media talking head decided was his personal stiffie, and now we've suddenly made it a "federal offense" to cross the border? Because you know, the original intent was "Bring me your cold, your poor, your tired massesm yearning to be free......."

When did that change? And really, what was the impetus behind that change? WHEN did it become a "federal offense?"

bring me your cold, your poor, your tired masses...was intended for people to come here through the proper avenues not to border hop.

bring me your cold, your poor, your tired masses...was intended for people to come here through the proper avenues not to border hop.

Really? How do you know that? I mean, I'm sure you believe that, but do you really know the intent? Can you speak to knowing the intent?

Face it... we are a nation of mutts. So I wonder.... why is one type of mutt acceptable, while another is distasteful? Realy, in all honesty.... what have these mutts ever done to you?

Really? How do you know that? I mean, I'm sure you believe that, but do you really know the intent? Can you speak to knowing the intent?

Face it... we are a nation of mutts. So I wonder.... why is one type of mutt acceptable, while another is distasteful? Realy, in all honesty.... what have these mutts ever done to you?

i am not against anyone coming to this country but do it properly, do it legally, come through the proper channels. yes it is difficult to come here legally but if you don't want to have to live under the radar and fear deportation do it properly and right!

I have so much else to say but I will bow out of this debate for now.

I have to agree with Jesse Ventura. First off, this country was started by immigrants and is FULL of legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. IMO, I've found that people work harder and strive further when immigrating here, more so than alot of our "citizens". My own parents were illegal, and legally became citizens. And they both make more and are more educated than the majority of "citizens" I know their ages.

My only issue with immigrants are the ones that come here and think they have "made it" just by being here and don't move further in life or circumstances in their life. Stagnant. :no I have the same issue with "citizens", so more so for people taking forgranted the opportunities available here in the U.S.

i am not against anyone coming to this country but do it properly, do it legally, come through the proper channels. yes it is difficult to come here legally but if you don't want to have to live under the radar and fear deportation do it properly and right!

See, my point is, at what point did it suddenly becme "improper," or worse, "illegal," for them to come here? Whose idea was that?

See, my point is, at what point did it suddenly becme "improper," or worse, "illegal," for them to come here? Whose idea was that?

i see your point but the fact is it is illegal now and unfortunately people border jumping are breaking the law

Well, I'm not sure. when, exactly, was this made a "federal offense?" What was the reasoning behind making this one step a "fecderal offense?" Was it a knee-jerk response to something, that some media talking head decided was his personal stiffie, and now we've suddenly made it a "federal offense" to cross the border? Because you know, the original intent was "Bring me your cold, your poor, your tired massesm yearning to be free......."

When did that change? And really, what was the impetus behind that change? WHEN did it become a "federal offense?"

It's not a federal offense to cross the border LEGALLY! But you do it ILLEGALLY then :yes it is a federal offense! Who the heck do you think deports your butt? The federal government hence the federal offense! :)

Really? How do you know that? I mean, I'm sure you believe that, but do you really know the intent? Can you speak to knowing the intent?

Face it... we are a nation of mutts. So I wonder.... why is one type of mutt acceptable, while another is distasteful? Realy, in all honesty.... what have these mutts ever done to you?

I know you were speaking to Jill on this, but I wanted to chime in on what you said.

Yes, we are a nation of many cultures, most families having come from different countries many many years ago when the immigration laws/rules were much more lax. However, that is not the case anymore. People who come here illegally is only distasteful in their action of coming to America in an illegal way, not that the person themselves is a distasteful person...Its their actions that makes them wrong. KWIM?

thanks kristen. i'm tired and not thinking clearly

Here is the history of Immigration and Naturalization Legislation from the Immgration website!

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=dc60e1df53b2f010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=dc60e1df53b2f010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD

I know you were speaking to Jill on this, but I wanted to chime in on what you said.

Yes, we are a nation of many cultures, most families having come from different countries many many years ago when the immigration laws/rules were much more lax. However, that is not the case anymore. People who come here illegally is only distasteful in their action of coming to America in an illegal way, not that the person themselves is a distasteful person...Its their actions that makes them wrong. KWIM?


Well I'm thankful for my parents DISTASTEFUL actions then. I already know they aren't distasteful people, but I have been back to where they came from and if I was there now, I'd be finding my quickest illegal or legal way out too. Thank the military men that were stationed in the Phillipines, they sold the passports to them and many others to get here. That's distasteful to me, making money on others poverty and situation. What would you be willing to do if your family was kept in poverty and in fear of local and superior officials filled with corruption? My uncle was shot to death by local officials for speaking out against the corruption. I understand the laws are there for a reason, but I also know that I would break any law to protect my family. Cross any border, and start new if it meant a chance for my future children and current children.

this is why nothing gets solved in this particular debate, feelings get involved not that it is a bad thing. fact of the matter is it is illegal to border hop

Well I'm thankful for my parents DISTASTEFUL actions then. I already know they aren't distasteful people, but I have been back to where they came from and if I was there now, I'd be finding my quickest illegal or legal way out too. Thank the military men that were stationed in the Phillipines, they sold the passports to them and many others to get here. That's distasteful to me, making money on others poverty and situation. What would you be willing to do if your family was kept in poverty and in fear of local and superior officials filled with corruption? My uncle was shot to death by local officials for speaking out against the corruption. I understand the laws are there for a reason, but I also know that I would break any law to protect my family. Cross any border, and start new if it meant a chance for my future children and current children.

:yes I am not really into borders I think we should not have any borders at all.

:yes I am not really into borders I think we should not have any borders at all.

:yes :yes :yes

not wanting to step on anyones toes here..just thinking out loud..i mean we were an open country years ago..example: immigrants from Europe coming to New York..yes of course its no the same as crossing the border since and all that. but, we were a pretty open country about things before..i know we're becoming hugely populated..idkkk im not thinking straight onto things right now my head hurts hah..just kinda rambling my thoughts off :D

:carryon

:D

<333333333!

i see your point but the fact is it is illegal now and unfortunately people border jumping are breaking the law

Convenient that you're one of the lucky ones who happened to be born on this side of the border, eh? On this side of the *ahem* law? I wonder if you'd feel as strongly about it if you were one of the ones it's keeping out.

this is why nothing gets solved in this particular debate, feelings get involved not that it is a bad thing. fact of the matter is it is illegal to border hop


It has nothing to do with "emotions", it has to do with making a better life, a safe life, for yourself and your family. Breaking a law for a better life doesn't seem so big when the threat of starvation, poverty, and bodily harm are to be considered.

I know you were speaking to Jill on this, but I wanted to chime in on what you said.

Yes, we are a nation of many cultures, most families having come from different countries many many years ago when the immigration laws/rules were much more lax. However, that is not the case anymore. People who come here illegally is only distasteful in their action of coming to America in an illegal way, not that the person themselves is a distasteful person...Its their actions that makes them wrong. KWIM?

Actually, I don't really KW you M. My point is, the 'law' is awfully convenient for the ones whose ancestors came here 'legally,' under circumstances that would now be determined to be 'illegal.'

Time is certainly on their side, but not on the side of the people who want the same opportunity for their children.

KWIM?

this is why nothing gets solved in this particular debate, feelings get involved not that it is a bad thing. fact of the matter is it is illegal to border hop

You are right!
And we obviously need to do something about illegal immigration.
But building a fence, and "sending them all back" is not the solution.
They don't deserve some of the things being said and I'll be damned if I am going to judge them badly and stereotype them for wanting a better life and leaving situations we couldn't even dream about.

Val

Actually, I don't really KW you M. My point is, the 'law' is awfully convenient for the ones whose ancestors came here 'legally,' under circumstances that would now be determined to be 'illegal.'

Time is certainly on their side, but not on the side of the people who want the same opportunity for their children.

KWIM?

:yes People used to just get on a boat and come on over. Then they signed in at Ellis island went to quarantine for a bit and then were in America. Of course that was before social security and perhaps that is what made the change? Or maybe it was that pre WWII we wanted to keep the undesirables out for example the Jewish people? (our borders were closed to Jewish immigrants at that time.)

It has nothing to do with "emotions", it has to do with making a better life, a safe life, for yourself and your family. Breaking a law for a better life doesn't seem so big when the threat of starvation, poverty, and bodily harm are to be considered.

Excellent points Joy. I can completely sympathize with reasons behind coming into the US illegally. I feel awful for the relatives I have that are left in Mexico, for example, living in poverty. That is why I would really like to see the process of becoming a citizen made EASIER and much less expensive overall. I do not support my family members coming over illegally, either. I have been over there and understand why people would break those laws, but I am still for building a wall and stopping the influx of illegals. Along with that needs to come a complete overhaul of how the citizenship process works.

Excellent points Joy. I can completely sympathize with reasons behind coming into the US illegally. I feel awful for the relatives I have that are left in Mexico, for example, living in poverty. That is why I would really like to see the process of becoming a citizen made EASIER and much less expensive overall. I do not support my family members coming over illegally, either. I have been over there and understand why people would break those laws, but I am still for building a wall and stopping the influx of illegals. Along with that needs to come a complete overhaul of how the citizenship process works.

I agree with over haul of the system and making it more affordable and easier to navigate but I am against a wall because I feel in the end it won't be there to keep people out but to keep us in.

:yes People used to just get on a boat and come on over. Then they signed in at Ellis island went to quarantine for a bit and then were in America. Of course that was before social security and perhaps that is what made the change? Or maybe it was that pre WWII we wanted to keep the undesirables out for example the Jewish people? (our borders were closed to Jewish immigrants at that time.)

:yes definitely summed up what i was trying to say! :D


<333333!

:yes People used to just get on a boat and come on over. Then they signed in at Ellis island went to quarantine for a bit and then were in America. Of course that was before social security and perhaps that is what made the change? Or maybe it was that pre WWII we wanted to keep the undesirables out for example the Jewish people? (our borders were closed to Jewish immigrants at that time.)


And to many pacific islanders, the US even had Japanese interernment camps on the west coast that detained many innocent Japanese, taking them from their homes, businesses, and lives. So sad. :no We as a nation have lost sight of the our roots. Equality has no meaning... the right to pursue happiness only apply to those born here I guess.


For those who don't know

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/special/centennial/june/internment.html

Excellent points Joy. I can completely sympathize with reasons behind coming into the US illegally. I feel awful for the relatives I have that are left in Mexico, for example, living in poverty. That is why I would really like to see the process of becoming a citizen made EASIER and much less expensive overall. I do not support my family members coming over illegally, either. I have been over there and understand why people would break those laws, but I am still for building a wall and stopping the influx of illegals. Along with that needs to come a complete overhaul of how the citizenship process works.


I agree the process needs a MAJOR overhaul. And yet wouldn't that money being spent on a wall be better spent on reforming the naturalization process and citizenship? A wall will NOT keep someone out that has nothing back home, and face all numbers of dangers to life.

And to many pacific islanders, the US even had Japanese interernment camps on the west coast that detained many innocent Japanese, taking them from their homes, businesses, and lives. So sad. :no We as a nation have lost sight of the our roots. Equality has no meaning... the right to pursue happiness only apply to those born here I guess.


For those who don't know

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/special/centennial/june/internment.html

Sadly, it wasn't only Japanese.

http://www.foitimes.com/internment/cc_tx.htm

"I believe we can safely say that it is considered to be one of the best, if not the best, internment camps ever operated by any country and, because of the children of various races [Caucasians, including Germans and Italians; Hispanics; and Asians, namely those of the Japanese nationality] there is a wealth of excellent pictorial material available there [Crystal City, Texas] [brackets added]"

Sadly, it wasn't only Japanese.

http://www.foitimes.com/internment/cc_tx.htm

"I believe we can safely say that it is considered to be one of the best, if not the best, internment camps ever operated by any country and, because of the children of various races [Caucasians, including Germans and Italians; Hispanics; and Asians, namely those of the Japanese nationality] there is a wealth of excellent pictorial material available there [Crystal City, Texas] [brackets added]"


WOW... didn't know about that. We were taught about the internment camps for Japanese because I was raised in CA and it was part of our history. I am appalled that anyone had to be detained do to their ethnicity, citizen or not. Sorry, off topic.

Well I'm thankful for my parents DISTASTEFUL actions then. I already know they aren't distasteful people, but I have been back to where they came from and if I was there now, I'd be finding my quickest illegal or legal way out too. Thank the military men that were stationed in the Phillipines, they sold the passports to them and many others to get here. That's distasteful to me, making money on others poverty and situation. What would you be willing to do if your family was kept in poverty and in fear of local and superior officials filled with corruption? My uncle was shot to death by local officials for speaking out against the corruption. I understand the laws are there for a reason, but I also know that I would break any law to protect my family. Cross any border, and start new if it meant a chance for my future children and current children.

Amen. If my family hadn't been so "distasteful", I wouldn't be here and be who I am today.

Convenient that you're one of the lucky ones who happened to be born on this side of the border, eh? On this side of the *ahem* law? I wonder if you'd feel as strongly about it if you were one of the ones it's keeping out.

I agree wholeheartedly with that. If you ladies were any of the people on the other side, I highly doubt you'd be rambling about how illegal it was an thinking about what's best for your family.

First, i would like to say that i agree that building a wall does NOTHING to cure the HEART of the problem. Building a wall to keep people out and thus ignoring the HEART of the problem is like throwing lindsay lohan into rehab after she has already SAID she doesnt want to stop drinking... its a good fix for a very short time.

Second, building a wall to keep others OUT would eventually evolve into keeping people in. America isnt perfect. as someone mentioned, we have already had internment camps, we have been ACTIVELY racist (both in slavery and which immigrants we would let in) we have changed facts in school history books to fit the needs of the AUTHOR and the government..... the government will eventually find a reason to keep us IN just as they found a reason to tap our phone calls and breach our privacy.
history has a funny way of repeating itself.... because we LET it. just because we THINK it wont evolve into keeping US IN, does NOT mean it wont. it's happened before and it CAN happen again. all we have to do is give the government that power.

thirdly, making the immigration process easier is a good start. America often boasts about how great it is... all the great opportunities... riches.... etc etc. If we are so great, then we shouldnt keep immigration as a secret club only for the rich. that is elitist. America shouldnt be elitist. although it is definitely becoming as such.

FINALLY. the heart of the problem.

i think rather than looking at what we can do to keep immigrants OUT... we need to look at why they so desperately want to come IN. The mexican government sucks. flat out sucks. rather than turning our noses at mexicans, perhaps we should instead as a country find a way to HELP Mexicans.
Yes, we have citizens who need help... but... some of those citizens ARE mexicans. with family still in mexico. and plenty of other countries south of us. Yes there are places such as darfur who REALLY need some serious help. but Mexico directly affects us.

I really dont think this is an issue that should be looked at as 'how can we slap a wall up and keep people out?' i think it needs to be looked at as 'how can we fix the ROOT of the problem, so that there is no NEED for a wall?'

taking guns away doesnt keep people from killing, making drugs illegal doesnt keep everyone from getting high, prohibition gave us organized crime and rehab only works if people WANT it to work for themselves.

taking away one puzzle piece to the problem doesnt get rid of the whole picture.

I posted the article to address what someone else posted about Illegal immigrants causing most crimes. By that I am talking crimes involving murder and mayhem

.

I believe that you are making a reference to a post I made. I in no way say that illegal aliens cause most crimes. I believe that I stated "the crimes they commite"

And to many pacific islanders, the US even had Japanese interernment camps on the west coast that detained many innocent Japanese, taking them from their homes, businesses, and lives. So sad. :no We as a nation have lost sight of the our roots. Equality has no meaning... the right to pursue happiness only apply to those born here I guess.


For those who don't know

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/special/centennial/june/internment.html

I agree that it was very wrong what we did as a nation to the Japanese people by placing them in internment camps. I could have been handled differently. BUT you have to look at the reason. Pearl Harbor was just bombed throwing us into a way with Japan. They struck us on our soil. So there was a valid reason to fear the Japanese and have concerns that those in our country could be a danger. Should we have investigated them? YES Should they have been locked away? NO

I know that for a while after 911 when I was flying and someone who appeared to be from the Middle East was flying on the same plane there was a little fear.

Does that make me a racist? No! That make me human. I do not feel that way any more. But were there ever another attack like 911 I think I would feel thesame way.

And you believe that our soldiers are charged with enforcing this law?
Yes. 'Support and defend the Constitution'

Well I'm thankful for my parents DISTASTEFUL actions then. I already know they aren't distasteful people, but I have been back to where they came from and if I was there now, I'd be finding my quickest illegal or legal way out too. Thank the military men that were stationed in the Phillipines, they sold the passports to them and many others to get here. That's distasteful to me, making money on others poverty and situation. What would you be willing to do if your family was kept in poverty and in fear of local and superior officials filled with corruption? My uncle was shot to death by local officials for speaking out against the corruption. I understand the laws are there for a reason, but I also know that I would break any law to protect my family. Cross any border, and start new if it meant a chance for my future children and current children.


You can get all bent out of shape about it then Joy. No matter what, crossing the border illegally is um, ILLEGAL. I am in no way criticizing or demeaning people for wanting a better life, I can completely understand WHY they want to. We have laws here about it and they need to be respected. If they want to be here they need to go about it LEGALLY.

If I wanted to move to another country, I would certainly immigrate there in accordance with their laws, rules, regulations, etc.

Really? How do you know that? I mean, I'm sure you believe that, but do you really know the intent? Can you speak to knowing the intent?

Face it... we are a nation of mutts. So I wonder.... why is one type of mutt acceptable, while another is distasteful? Realy, in all honesty.... what have these mutts ever done to you?

I feel like you're trying to paint people who disagree with you as racist... and that's really not cool.

It has NOTHING to do with the race of the immigrants. It has to do with the fact that people are ILLEGALLY entering this country.

Laws change over time. Yes it may have been "easier" to enter this country during the 30's and 40's (though citizenship rules have always been strict) but the laws have changed and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COLOR OF PEOPLE.

Documenting who is entering our country is just plain common sense, in my opinion.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a better life for your family, but nobody deserves a pat on the back for bypassing the laws to do so.

It's not a federal offense to cross the border LEGALLY! But you do it ILLEGALLY then :yes it is a federal offense! Who the heck do you think deports your butt? The federal government hence the federal offense! :)

:yes

Convenient that you're one of the lucky ones who happened to be born on this side of the border, eh? On this side of the *ahem* law? I wonder if you'd feel as strongly about it if you were one of the ones it's keeping out.

It's not keeping anybody out.... it's an attempt to force them to enter LEGALLY.

Why is it that other countries can have entry/exit laws 100 times more strict than ours... but when we try to do so in our own country, we're the bad guys?

You are right!
And we obviously need to do something about illegal immigration.
But building a fence, and "sending them all back" is not the solution.
They don't deserve some of the things being said and I'll be damned if I am going to judge them badly and stereotype them for wanting a better life and leaving situations we couldn't even dream about.

Val

I totally agree with that. I have NOTHING against the people wanting to come here. We DO need to reform our immigration system. I'm more concerned about security.

First, i would like to say that i agree that building a wall does NOTHING to cure the HEART of the problem. Building a wall to keep people out and thus ignoring the HEART of the problem is like throwing lindsay lohan into rehab after she has already SAID she doesnt want to stop drinking... its a good fix for a very short time.

Second, building a wall to keep others OUT would eventually evolve into keeping people in. America isnt perfect. as someone mentioned, we have already had internment camps, we have been ACTIVELY racist (both in slavery and which immigrants we would let in) we have changed facts in school history books to fit the needs of the AUTHOR and the government..... the government will eventually find a reason to keep us IN just as they found a reason to tap our phone calls and breach our privacy.
history has a funny way of repeating itself.... because we LET it. just because we THINK it wont evolve into keeping US IN, does NOT mean it wont. it's happened before and it CAN happen again. all we have to do is give the government that power.

thirdly, making the immigration process easier is a good start. America often boasts about how great it is... all the great opportunities... riches.... etc etc. If we are so great, then we shouldnt keep immigration as a secret club only for the rich. that is elitist. America shouldnt be elitist. although it is definitely becoming as such.

FINALLY. the heart of the problem.

i think rather than looking at what we can do to keep immigrants OUT... we need to look at why they so desperately want to come IN. The mexican government sucks. flat out sucks. rather than turning our noses at mexicans, perhaps we should instead as a country find a way to HELP Mexicans.
Yes, we have citizens who need help... but... some of those citizens ARE mexicans. with family still in mexico. and plenty of other countries south of us. Yes there are places such as darfur who REALLY need some serious help. but Mexico directly affects us.

I really dont think this is an issue that should be looked at as 'how can we slap a wall up and keep people out?' i think it needs to be looked at as 'how can we fix the ROOT of the problem, so that there is no NEED for a wall?'

taking guns away doesnt keep people from killing, making drugs illegal doesnt keep everyone from getting high, prohibition gave us organized crime and rehab only works if people WANT it to work for themselves.

taking away one puzzle piece to the problem doesnt get rid of the whole picture.

Very well said, as usual. :P

I spent most of the night thinking about this. I have been in Mexico and other countries several times on missions trips and have seen the poor and the "true" lives they live everyday. I will never really know what they go through. I understand why they want to come here. I understand that desperation and fear can push you to do anything to protect yourself and your family.

However that does not change my mind that they should go through the right channels to come here legally. If they are caught here illegaly then there should be cosequences.

I do not think that amnisty is the way to solve the problem. Because what about those that have come here legally and those that are going through the process. Those who are here illegaly should have to go to the end of the line, behind those that have already begain their process.

I think changing the laws and making it more accesable would be a good idea.
A wall? But there has to be something done to stop the influx of illegals, from every country.

Actually, I don't really KW you M. My point is, the 'law' is awfully convenient for the ones whose ancestors came here 'legally,' under circumstances that would now be determined to be 'illegal.'

Time is certainly on their side, but not on the side of the people who want the same opportunity for their children.

KWIM?

It is pointless IMO to reflect back on how it once was so easy to immigrate here. The fact is, its NOT the way it is now and if people want so desperately come here, then they need to follow the laws of this country. I would expect no less of myself if I wanted to move to a different country.

Most of you say that we need to make the process easier and more affordable. Well my question is how much do you think we should charge?

I was born a US citizen and If I was from another country I would FIRST read up and educate myself on becoming a permanent resident and then i would do it the right way. You know why I wouldnt want to live my life in fear of deportation and never being able to come back here. What would I gain if I tried to come here illegally and they caught me right at the border, well I never made it to the US so nothing. Or if I made it through but then got caught and deported it gets you nothing!

I feel like you're trying to paint people who disagree with you as racist... and that's really not cool.

It has NOTHING to do with the race of the immigrants. It has to do with the fact that people are ILLEGALLY entering this country.

Laws change over time. Yes it may have been "easier" to enter this country during the 30's and 40's (though citizenship rules have always been strict) but the laws have changed and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COLOR OF PEOPLE.

Documenting who is entering our country is just plain common sense, in my opinion.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a better life for your family, but nobody deserves a pat on the back for bypassing the laws to do so.



:yes



It's not keeping anybody out.... it's an attempt to force them to enter LEGALLY.

Why is it that other countries can have entry/exit laws 100 times more strict than ours... but when we try to do so in our own country, we're the bad guys?



I totally agree with that. I have NOTHING against the people wanting to come here. We DO need to reform our immigration system. I'm more concerned about security.



Thank you, I totally agree.

You know what I am sick of in this debate?

The fact that people who think there should be a strict process and dont think it should be cheaper are labled by the others. I agree that studying everything (ie costs, etc) should be something that is thought about. If i moved to say Austria I would super investigate everything if I was to become a citizen there.

That is why i dont share my feelings, people who dont agree are badbadbad americans. We all have stories of our ancestors and families that came here and making someone feel like what they went through was worse is BS.

Yes. 'Support and defend the Constitution'

Where in the Constitution does it say that the military should be charged with keeping illegal immigrants out?

Where in the Constitution does it say that the military should be charged with keeping illegal immigrants out?

The military is charged with whatever the government sees fit for them to do.

The military is charged with whatever the government sees fit for them to do.

But if there are other government agencies whose job it is to do a certain thing, there is no reason to expect the military to do that. Military members don't enforce speed limits on interstate highways; we have highway patrols to do that. Military members don't regulate interstate commerce; there are all sorts of appropriately trained, qualified government agencies (at all levels) that are charged with doing that.

When we start talking as if we expect military forces to start taking over as the behavior police, it becomes a very slippery slope. Of course, those attitudes do work well in many other countries..... you know, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran....

My point on this item was that in this country, one of the basic tenets is that we DON'T use our military forces to enforce general civil law; we DON'T want to have a police state. That's one of the principles on which this country was founded. It's incorrect to use the "Our brave SSAMs are fighting for your right to be a ________" argument, even though it's a popular sentiment. Our military members are NOT "fighting for our rights" in that area; those rights are not threatened.

That is, until we start assigning military members to do the jobs that are currently handled by other governmental agencies.

I believe that you are making a reference to a post I made. I in no way say that illegal aliens cause most crimes. I believe that I stated "the crimes they commite"

You are right.:oops

My apologies.

The military fights to protect the rights of the Americans. It also fights to protect the property of the government - and that INCLUDES it's land. Handling Illegal immigration should NOT be a military function, but if the 'correct' authorities need assistance Protecting and patroling the borders, I have no problem with that.

I agree that it was very wrong what we did as a nation to the Japanese people by placing them in internment camps. I could have been handled differently. BUT you have to look at the reason. Pearl Harbor was just bombed throwing us into a way with Japan. They struck us on our soil. So there was a valid reason to fear the Japanese and have concerns that those in our country could be a danger. Should we have investigated them? YES Should they have been locked away? NO

I know that for a while after 911 when I was flying and someone who appeared to be from the Middle East was flying on the same plane there was a little fear.

Does that make me a racist? No! That make me human. I do not feel that way any more. But were there ever another attack like 911 I think I would feel thesame way.

I don't care what the excuses were for the internment camps it was wrong. Heck the president at the time KNEW there would be an attack on Pearl Habor yet nothing was done to prevent it. We were at war with more then just the Japanese yet for the most part only Japanese AMERICANS were locked away for YEARS. What about German Americans, or Italian Americans? Japanese Americans LOOKED different so they were singled out. It was wrong wrong wrong and I don't give a flying fart what excuses or "reason" they had for doing it.

They took these peoples homes, land, family heirlooms, businesses, property, etc AWAY and never gave it back. It took decades for repayment to be made and many turned it down. They were living in filth in those camps.The enternment effected young men and women that had been born in this country they felt their country had betrayed them when they loved being American. Then insult to injury they were told their families could recieve better care in the camps if they would prove their loyalty and join the military. Imagine that your nation has just slapped you across the face as hard as it can and wants YOU to prove yourself. I have the utmost respect for the men that did sign up because I would of said a big fuck you to them if I had been in their shoes. It was and is a massive blemish on our nations history. One unfortunately of several. They were living in filth in those camps.

What about German Americans, or Italian Americans? Japanese Americans LOOKED different so they were singled out. It was wrong wrong worng and I don't give a flying fart what excuses or "reasosn" they had for doing it.

Applause, applause.

And that may be one of the reasons the immigration "laws" have changed in recent decades. Previously, the majority of the immigrants were of European descent.... in other words, "they looked like us," which made the mass immigration okay.... tolerable... palatable.

Today, the majority of immigrants are coming from places like southeastern Asia, Africa and Mexico, where people "look different." So yeah, I do think that part of the reason the "laws" were conveniently changed was to keep people out who don't meet some obscure ideal.

Thank you, I totally agree.

I would say that the conclusions you (the collective, generic form) think someone is "painting people as racist" are better explained within your own minds. I didn't say anything even remotely close to calling anyone racist.

Prejudiced, stereotyping, misinformed.... sure, I probably did imply that. But if you feel that applies to you, that's your own conclusion. Why would you conclude that, if it's not true?

I don't care what the excuses were for the internment camps it was wrong. Heck the president at the time KNEW there would be an attack on Pearl Habor yet nothing was done to prevent it. We were at war with more then just the Japanese yet for the most part only Japanese AMERICANS were locked away for YEARS. What about German Americans, or Italian Americans? Japanese Americans LOOKED different so they were singled out. It was wrong wrong wrong and I don't give a flying fart what excuses or "reason" they had for doing it.

They took these peoples homes, land, family heirlooms, businesses, property, etc AWAY and never gave it back. It took decades for repayment to be made and many turned it down. They were living in filth in those camps.The enternment effected young men and women that had been born in this country they felt their country had betrayed them when they loved being American. Then insult to injury they were told their families could recieve better care in the camps if they would prove their loyalty and join the military. Imagine that your nation has just slapped you across the face as hard as it can and wants YOU to prove yourself. I have the utmost respect for the men that did sign up because I would of said a big fuck you to them if I had been in their shoes. It was and is a massive blemish on our nations history. One unfortunately of several. They were living in filth in those camps.

(sarc on)
Oh, but don't you know, that's DIFFERENT, because that's how people thought back then.... so that makes it okay. We can just brush it off as "oh well, that's how it was back then."
(sarc off)

Gag me! This is part of our HISTORY. It's not pretty. It happened, it was ugly, cruel, and wrong..... even at the time. It offends me how easily people try to blow this off.

I would say that the conclusions you (the collective, generic form) think someone is "painting people as racist" are better explained within your own minds. I didn't say anything even remotely close to calling anyone racist.

Prejudiced, stereotyping, misinformed.... sure, I probably did imply that. But if you feel that applies to you, that's your own conclusion. Why would you conclude that, if it's not true?

by me being the person who you originally made the mutt comment too it is wrong to imply that i am prejudiced, stereotyping, misinformed because i have said on more than one occasion that i think ALL illegal immigration is wrong not just those who come across the mexican border, however though this debate was about the fence along the border.

(sarc on)
Oh, but don't you know, that's DIFFERENT, because that's how people thought back then.... so that makes it okay. We can just brush it off as "oh well, that's how it was back then."
(sarc off)

Gag me! This is part of our HISTORY. It's not pretty. It happened, it was ugly, cruel, and wrong..... even at the time. It offends me how easily people try to blow this off.

History is History. You can't change the past - you can only do better in the future.

You can get all bent out of shape about it then Joy. No matter what, crossing the border illegally is um, ILLEGAL. I am in no way criticizing or demeaning people for wanting a better life, I can completely understand WHY they want to. We have laws here about it and they need to be respected. If they want to be here they need to go about it LEGALLY.

If I wanted to move to another country, I would certainly immigrate there in accordance with their laws, rules, regulations, etc.

That pretty much sums up how I feel. There is nothing wrong with wanting a better life but the love of pete stop doing it illegally and then bitch because you got caught and are being sent back. :rolleyes

The fence is not a solution nor a problem. It's just an inconvenience IMO and the Gov't needs to think long and hard on a better solution cause the fence does NOT have the same effect as the wall in Berlin.

So are they going to build a fence across the Canadian border too? how about a fence on both the eastern and western sea boards? A fence ALL the way around America. See if they build ONE fence on ONE border prety soon they will build another and then another and THEN we will be like the sheep that the farmer slowly builds a paddock around so that they don't notice they are being penned in.

by me being the person who you originally made the mutt comment too it is wrong to imply that i am prejudiced, stereotyping, misinformed because i have said on more than one occasion that i think ALL illegal immigration is wrong not just those who come across the mexican border, however though this debate was about the fence along the border.

If you choose to conclude that about yourself, there isn't going to be much I can do to change your own self-perception.

History is History. You can't change the past - you can only do better in the future.

:yes I agree it is when people brush it of or offer excuses for it that I disagree. For example we have detention camps now so while we are more on the down low about it, what happened then is too a degree happening again.

So are they going to build a fence across the Canadian border too? how about a fence on both the eastern and western sea boards? A fence ALL the way around America. See if they build ONE fence on ONE border prety soon they will build another and then another and THEN we will be like the sheep that the farmer slowly builds a paddock around so that they don't notice they are being penned in.

Very well said.

If you choose to conclude that about yourself, there isn't going to be much I can do to change your own self-perception.
whatever i can see you are one that i won't be debating with

I just dont know what the hell people want...You are so damned if you do and damned if you dont in this debate...If you say xyz and then you are bad and you dont understand...Ok becoming a citizen legally isnt cheap but I am sure before that people tried they would know that. Why come here FROM ANYWHERE and take the chance of getting deported, how does that help your family?

History is History. You can't change the past - you can only do better in the future.

The only people who are going to "do better in the future" are the ones who recognize and acknowledge that it was wrong. The people who are pooh-poohing the WWII internment camps with a cavalier, oh-well, what's done is done attitude, aren't very likely to learn the lesson.

The only people who are going to "do better in the future" are the ones who recognize and acknowledge that it was wrong. The people who are pooh-poohing the WWII internment camps with a cavalier, oh-well, what's done is done attitude, aren't very likely to learn the lesson.

But the point is, You CAN'T do anything about what happened in the past - you an only learn from it. There are many things that happened in history that were wrong. You CAN'T change it. I think that dwelling on history and making history a JUSTIFICATION for Present behavior and decisions is wrong as well. Get Past the bad stuff and make things better.

So are they going to build a fence across the Canadian border too? how about a fence on both the eastern and western sea boards? A fence ALL the way around America. See if they build ONE fence on ONE border prety soon they will build another and then another and THEN we will be like the sheep that the farmer slowly builds a paddock around so that they don't notice they are being penned in.

I believe we will never build a wall between the US and Canada because Canadians usually want to stay in their own country and we dont have the problem with them jumping the border like we do with other countries! :)

I believe we will never build a wall between the US and Canada because Canadians usually want to stay in their own country and we dont have the problem with them jumping the border like we do with other countries! :)

Are you sure about that?

Truly, I don't believe it's justifiable. If you want to keep all illegal immigrants out, build a wall on all borders, not just one down south.

Even so, I don't believe a wall will solve the problem and it's simply people not understanding their desperation.

Are you sure about that?

Truly, I don't believe it's justifiable. If you want to keep all illegal immigrants out, build a wall on all borders, not just one down south.

Even so, I don't believe a wall will solve the problem and it's simply people not understanding their desperation.

People dont understan