oh my god, I have no idea where to start expressing what I feel.

It was a great Saturday, a beautiful day and DB and I drove up to Raleigh to meet my parents to move me out. We had lunch and went shopping with them and then DB went back to Fayetteville.

I called him after we had dinner and were back at the hotel and we said our goodnights and I went to bed. But I woke up at like 4 in the morning and couldn't sleep.

I got a phone call at 8:30 from DB, which was odd because I was supposed to call him before we hit the road. He told me his roommate had killed himself last night.

I posted something about his roommate possibly having PTSD
http://forum.militarysos.com/showthread.php?t=158556

Anyway, last night DB, his friend Blazer and his roommate were all sitting around playing Rock Band, and DB got up to plug the drums in, and his roommate grabbed DB's gun and shot himself in the head.

DB called the police, and his platoon sgt. They had a pitcher of beer that night for dinner that they had split between the 3 of them, but that was it. They weren't drunk and the police did not even breathalize them. They took DB's gun, and confiscated it for the time being. But ultimately they saw it had proper registration and everything so they gave it.

I just don't know what to do. I am so worried about DB. The military is pressing charges because his roommate was an E-4 and Db was an E-5. DB had JUST recieved his E-5, and they were roommates before.

I feel so horrible, his chain of command didn't even let DB and the other go see the chaplain or grief counselors. Instead they told them how DB was going to possibly get an Article 15 for fratenizing with a non-officer.

I am so so so so worried. I talked to his parents and they are wondering if they should come down, DB told them it wasn't necessary but they're just really concerned with the way his chain of command has dealt with this and with obviously DB's mental health. I'm flying down in two weeks for a wedding, but we will have to see what DB feels like doing.

He's going to his Sgt. Major's office tomorrow to most likely get yelled at and then he's going to the Chaplain's and then Mental Health.

The thing that scares me is that what if...this guy just snapped and shot my DB, the other guy and then himself?? DB is so fragile emotionally right now, I just don't know what to do.

I've been talking to his parents a lot, and we've been talking a lot. He's like "baby I know you're there for me, trust me we'll get through this"

DB knew this guy for 4 years, and just ugh. I just saw this guy yesterday morning. I am just at a loss for words, and I'm angry. I'm so angry that this guy could do such a selfish act. He's put so many people through so much....Chris and Carrie are so upset and their wedding is 2 weeks away. I just don't know how to handle this right now. I don't know what to say to my DB

oh no :prayers

I am so sorry. That is horrible!

Oh my God. I"m not even sure what to say, honestly. Wow, what a horrific situation. :(

You might want to be careful posting about this, as it seems to be an ongoing military investigation. I'd hate to see things get more complicated with you posting about the details.

So sorry your DB is going through this! :hugs

I'm sorry for posting the details...It's not really an investigation, just violations. I guess charges were the wrong word to use.

I just really didn't know where else to get advice about such things.

WOW! What a shame! And the poor guys for witnessing it! I can't imagine the mental state they are in right now.

And ditto what Victoria said!

I am curious though why they would give your DB an Article 15 for hanging with an E-4 if he was an E-5. I am :puzz over that one!

:hugs to all involved!

I'm sorry to hear that :( You guys will be in my prayers :pray

I'm sorry for posting the details...It's not really an investigation, just violations. I guess charges were the wrong word to use.

I just really didn't know where else to get advice about such things.

I understand!! But with a possible court-martial for your DB, you might want to have posted in Dear SOS. kwim?!

I am so sorry for what happened honey! :hugs

how in the hell do they justify an article 15? that is stupid! i am so sorry for your DB and the others..it will be with them the rest of their lives. I hope they get the help they need in light of this situation.

Wow, that is such a tough situation to be dealing with :hugs I hope your DB does not get in trouble :goodvibes

:wow I'm so sorry for this entire situation!

I understand!! But with a possible court-martial for your DB, you might wanted to have posted in Dear SOS. kwim?!

True! But I'm so confused as to WHY DB would get a possible court-martial. Ugggggggh..it makes so freaking sense to me. They're just so insensitive!

Wow, I am so sorry. What a horrific situation.

Holy crap!

I am SO sorry for everyone's pain.......

:pray

try not to think too harshly of your db's roommate... he was obviously in a lot of pain & turmoil to do something so drastic, and could not have been thinking properly to make that kind of erratic decision.

i hope that your db doesn't get in any trouble, it seems so ridiculous to charge him for something like that. they should be more concerned with getting him some kind of grief counsling, i swear sometimes i will never understand the military...

you'll all be in my thoughts, though (L)

Wow that's just so.......wow. I'm so sorry your db is now in trouble because of this. I don't understand at all why they are giving him an article 15. That's bs. He's an NCO! They usually do "frat with non-officers". How stupid of the army to do this to him, he's already been through enough.

I do have to say I feel sorry for the man who killed himself. I understand why everyone would think it was selfish- but I can't help but feel so sorry for him, he obviously thought he had nothing to live for- and that is so so SO terribly sad. :depressed

I hope things get cleared up soon. It's a terrible situation and obviously the army is only going to make it worse. Sorry this happened :(

I was reading your prior post on the possible suicide troubles and this one, its so sad. I have a couple questions though....in the other post it says your DB's friend...and then it even says his friends wife asked for him and another friend to say something. Was the guy married then? Your story is confusing to me. I too would be very careful what you say though.

oh my god, I have no idea where to start expressing what I feel.

It was a great Saturday, a beautiful day and DB and I drove up to Raleigh to meet my parents to move me out. We had lunch and went shopping with them and then DB went back to Fayetteville.

I called him after we had dinner and were back at the hotel and we said our goodnights and I went to bed. But I woke up at like 4 in the morning and couldn't sleep.

I got a phone call at 8:30 from DB, which was odd because I was supposed to call him before we hit the road. He told me his roommate had killed himself last night.

I posted something about his roommate possibly having PTSD
http://forum.militarysos.com/showthread.php?t=158556

Anyway, last night DB, his friend Blazer and his roommate were all sitting around playing Rock Band, and DB got up to plug the drums in, and his roommate grabbed DB's gun and shot himself in the head.

DB called the police, and his platoon sgt. They had a pitcher of beer that night for dinner that they had split between the 3 of them, but that was it. They weren't drunk and the police did not even breathalize them. They took DB's gun, and confiscated it for the time being. But ultimately they saw it had proper registration and everything so they gave it.

I just don't know what to do. I am so worried about DB. The military is pressing charges because his roommate was an E-4 and Db was an E-5. DB had JUST recieved his E-5, and they were roommates before.

I feel so horrible, his chain of command didn't even let DB and the other go see the chaplain or grief counselors. Instead they told them how DB was going to possibly get an Article 15 for fratenizing with a non-officer.

I am so so so so worried. I talked to his parents and they are wondering if they should come down, DB told them it wasn't necessary but they're just really concerned with the way his chain of command has dealt with this and with obviously DB's mental health. I'm flying down in two weeks for a wedding, but we will have to see what DB feels like doing.

He's going to his Sgt. Major's office tomorrow to most likely get yelled at and then he's going to the Chaplain's and then Mental Health.

The thing that scares me is that what if...this guy just snapped and shot my DB, the other guy and then himself?? DB is so fragile emotionally right now, I just don't know what to do.

I've been talking to his parents a lot, and we've been talking a lot. He's like "baby I know you're there for me, trust me we'll get through this"

DB knew this guy for 4 years, and just ugh. I just saw this guy yesterday morning. I am just at a loss for words, and I'm angry. I'm so angry that this guy could do such a selfish act. He's put so many people through so much....Chris and Carrie are so upset and their wedding is 2 weeks away. I just don't know how to handle this right now. I don't know what to say to my DB

I'm just so saddened that the warning signs were visible. :( Was your DB's gun locked up, since he knew about his roommate being suicidal?!?

You might want to be careful posting about this, as it seems to be an ongoing military investigation. I'd hate to see things get more complicated with you posting about the details.

So sorry your DB is going through this! :hugs

I agree, especially becuase some of what your writing about the command doesn't sound correct, especially thr part about fraternization with a non officer...that makes no sense, they were both non officers. anyway, you might just lay low with this.

Your right about your feelings though, he could have snapped and shot other people too, count your blessings and hug all your loved ones. I hope he gets the counseling he needs.

try not to think too harshly of your db's roommate... he was obviously in a lot of pain & turmoil to do something so drastic, and could not have been thinking properly to make that kind of erratic decision.

i hope that your db doesn't get in any trouble, it seems so ridiculous to charge him for something like that. they should be more concerned with getting him some kind of grief counsling, i swear sometimes i will never understand the military...

you'll all be in my thoughts, though (L)

:agree :hugs and :prayers

I wish I had the right words, but all I can say is that everyone involved is in my :pray:pray:pray.

an e5 isnt an officer.

Ok enough with the criticism. She posted NOTHING that would be detrimental to her DB and asking if his gun was locked up is not cool. Just because someone has PTSD (possibly) doesn't make them a suicide risk. How could they POSSIBLY have foreseen this? GOD FORBID he logs on and sees people asking if the gun was locked up.

As for the OP, all you really can do is be there for your DB. Comfort him and remind him that NONE of this is his fault. Do you attend church at all? Look into speaking with the pastor/priest/etc of your church if you do.

Ok enough with the criticism. She posted NOTHING that would be detrimental to her DB and asking if his gun was locked up is not cool. Just because someone has PTSD (possibly) doesn't make them a suicide risk. How could they POSSIBLY have foreseen this? GOD FORBID he logs on and sees people asking if the gun was locked up.

As for the OP, all you really can do is be there for your DB. Comfort him and remind him that NONE of this is his fault. Do you attend church at all? Look into speaking with the pastor/priest/etc of your church if you do.

i agree i also wanted to add that being that your db is a fresh nco and they had not moved him to a room with either another nco or a single, they cannot hold that against him. if the company pushes the article 15, i would take it higher since the fraternization is clearly the companies fault and not db's.

hugs hon be there for him, suicide is hard on everyone and he will need you. i will keep you both in my thoughts.

Ok enough with the criticism. She posted NOTHING that would be detrimental to her DB and asking if his gun was locked up is not cool. Just because someone has PTSD (possibly) doesn't make them a suicide risk. How could they POSSIBLY have foreseen this? GOD FORBID he logs on and sees people asking if the gun was locked up.

As for the OP, all you really can do is be there for your DB. Comfort him and remind him that NONE of this is his fault. Do you attend church at all? Look into speaking with the pastor/priest/etc of your church if you do.

I completely agree with you!

i agree i also wanted to add that being that your db is a fresh nco and they had not moved him to a room with either another nco or a single, they cannot hold that against him. if the company pushes the article 15, i would take it higher since the fraternization is clearly the companies fault and not db's.

hugs hon be there for him, suicide is hard on everyone and he will need you. i will keep you both in my thoughts.

Oh yeah, if he is still assigned an E-4 roommate, they CAN NOT charge him for hanging out with the guy. Take that crap higher and make noise. If they still try to press it, contact IG.

:hugs I'm sorry you and he are having to deal with this.. :hugs

I'm soooooo sorry this has happened.. :prays for you and your Db

I am so sorry that he is going thru this :hugs Just be there for him as much as you can.

*hug* That's just horrible! AH! I can't believe that happened. I'm so sorry!
You should make sure your DB has his records together regarding when he was promoted and about how he knew this guy beforehand. That could really help him with the article 15. It states in regulations that people are allowed to continue interactions post promotion so long as they knew each other previously and as long as the relationship doesn't interfere with professional action in the field.

*hug* That's just horrible! AH! I can't believe that happened. I'm so sorry!
You should make sure your DB has his records together regarding when he was promoted and about how he knew this guy beforehand. That could really help him with the article 15. It states in regulations that people are allowed to continue interactions post promotion so long as they knew each other previously and as long as the relationship doesn't interfere with professional action in the field.

:yes Definitely! So, unless he became the guy's squad leader or something, they should still be able to maintain their friendship. Hopefully this all helps him get out of the Article 15, though it doesn't help his mental state, I'm sure.

I hope he's dealing ok, I can't imagine turning around and seeing what he saw :sadeyes

:hugs

I am so sorry this happened!!! Give your DB a hug for me.

Can this thread be deleted and posted in SOS as to not get anyone in trouble?

Can this thread be deleted and posted in SOS as to not get anyone in trouble?

It's not going to get ANYONE in trouble. An Article 15 is not the same as a full on military investigation or Court Martial. That, plus the "charge" isn't severe. It's a simple case of fraternization in which it can be easily proven the two are not to blame.

Thank you girls for everything.

I often thought the same thing about why DB's gun wasn't locked up, and my mom was wondering too. We both knew that his roommate was possibly suffering from Depression, but he only showed those signs when he had been drinking heavily.

I asked DB about it last night and he said he couldn't figure out how his friend was able to load the gun, because the gun was not loaded. He had it out to show the other guy, because the other guy that was there was thinking of buying one.

Last night DB told me that he was going to get rid of it, and he would probably never purchase a gun again because of what happened. I told him I supported his decision (because I honestly did NOT want a gun in the house with children).

It's such a tough situation, DB had been all the way through Airborne school with the guy and he had lived in the barracks with him for about the 2 years prior to deployment. They were both the same age, DB was just promoted faster.

I talked to his parents last night, and they said they were thinking of possibly trying to hire a lawyer, but they aren't sure how much experiance regular civil lawyers have with the military court system.

I'm so nervous, he called me before he went into work and before he went to talk to the Sgt. Majors. He is then going to the Chaplain's office to talk with him and then off to Mental Health to be evaluated.

My parents aren't really being too supportive because they are extremely anti-gun and they are like "why did he have a gun laying around when he was showing these signs?"
And the only thing I can think of was just carelessness on DB's half. I mean it wasn't loaded, but somehow this guy had enough will to do this that he found a way to be sneaky and load the gun.

I guess I am going through my stages of being upset, It's honestly still surreal to me. I am more concerned with DB's mental health. I think his mom is going to fly down there this weekend to help him get things situated with his apartment and just be there for moral support. I know DB is going through a shock phase right now, so I really want her to be there for him when it changes. I'm going to be flying down in 2 weeks, but I'm honestly wondering if I should change my flight for earlier.

Thank you so much, and I will keep you updated on what happens concerning the consequences for the violations. :hugs to you all

:hugs Im so sorry!

:hugs I am so sorry that you and everyone involved is dealing with this. I am :praying that everything works out and no punichment is enforced on your DB. :goodvibes

Sweetie, I cannot figure out what to say first, other than hugs hugs hugs.
I hope your DB does get to see a grief couselor AND soon, before he blames himself for this guy killing himself.

Keep us as updated as you can, and remember we are all here for you! :hugehug

Thank you girls for everything.

I often thought the same thing about why DB's gun wasn't locked up, and my mom was wondering too. We both knew that his roommate was possibly suffering from Depression, but he only showed those signs when he had been drinking heavily.

I asked DB about it last night and he said he couldn't figure out how his friend was able to load the gun, because the gun was not loaded. He had it out to show the other guy, because the other guy that was there was thinking of buying one.

Last night DB told me that he was going to get rid of it, and he would probably never purchase a gun again because of what happened. I told him I supported his decision (because I honestly did NOT want a gun in the house with children).

It's such a tough situation, DB had been all the way through Airborne school with the guy and he had lived in the barracks with him for about the 2 years prior to deployment. They were both the same age, DB was just promoted faster.

I talked to his parents last night, and they said they were thinking of possibly trying to hire a lawyer, but they aren't sure how much experiance regular civil lawyers have with the military court system.

I'm so nervous, he called me before he went into work and before he went to talk to the Sgt. Majors. He is then going to the Chaplain's office to talk with him and then off to Mental Health to be evaluated.

My parents aren't really being too supportive because they are extremely anti-gun and they are like "why did he have a gun laying around when he was showing these signs?"
And the only thing I can think of was just carelessness on DB's half. I mean it wasn't loaded, but somehow this guy had enough will to do this that he found a way to be sneaky and load the gun.

I guess I am going through my stages of being upset, It's honestly still surreal to me. I am more concerned with DB's mental health. I think his mom is going to fly down there this weekend to help him get things situated with his apartment and just be there for moral support. I know DB is going through a shock phase right now, so I really want her to be there for him when it changes. I'm going to be flying down in 2 weeks, but I'm honestly wondering if I should change my flight for earlier.

Thank you so much, and I will keep you updated on what happens concerning the consequences for the violations. :hugs to you all

It isn't your DB's fault that his friend happened to use your DB's gun as his suicide weapon.
Your DB had it unloaded, and I am going to assume had the bullets put away (you said he wasn't sure how his friend got it loaded) So he was being as safe as he could.

One would argue that he shouldn't have had the gun out in the first place.... but again, the bullets weren't out so in your DB's mind, there was no danger. There were also only suspicions of his friend having serious problems, nothing had been confirmed. I am going to guess that at least that night, your DB felt his friend was just fine. Therefor, there wouldn't be danger especially with the bullets put away.

What it all comes down to is this: whether or not the gun shouldn't have been out at ALL is irrelevant. If this guy was serious about killing himself, he would have done it no matter what. Perhaps not that night with your DB's gun, but maybe a different night.... maybe he would have figured out how to unlock the gun.... or maybe he would have hanged himself... or drank something poisonous. If he truly felt like he needed to die, he would have found a way to go about it.

My uncle killed himself... shot himself in the head as well. And I have been suicidal.
My uncle managed to get his father's (my grandpa's) guns unlocked so he could use one
and I never attempted because of my experience with my uncles suicide. However, my plan of suicide was simple. I had everything I needed right in my bathroom.

It was your DB's gun..... that doesn't mean it is your DB's fault.

It isn't your DB's fault that his friend happened to use your DB's gun as his suicide weapon.
Your DB had it unloaded, and I am going to assume had the bullets put away (you said he wasn't sure how his friend got it loaded) So he was being as safe as he could.

One would argue that he shouldn't have had the gun out in the first place.... but again, the bullets weren't out so in your DB's mind, there was no danger. There were also only suspicions of his friend having serious problems, nothing had been confirmed. I am going to guess that at least that night, your DB felt his friend was just fine. Therefor, there wouldn't be danger especially with the bullets put away.

What it all comes down to is this: whether or not the gun shouldn't have been out at ALL is irrelevant. If this guy was serious about killing himself, he would have done it no matter what. Perhaps not that night with your DB's gun, but maybe a different night.... maybe he would have figured out how to unlock the gun.... or maybe he would have hanged himself... or drank something poisonous. If he truly felt like he needed to die, he would have found a way to go about it.

My uncle killed himself... shot himself in the head as well. And I have been suicidal.
My uncle managed to get his father's (my grandpa's) guns unlocked so he could use one
and I never attempted because of my experience with my uncles suicide. However, my plan of suicide was simple. I had everything I needed right in my bathroom.

It was your DB's gun..... that doesn't mean it is your DB's fault.

I agree so much with this, especially the bolded. I have a feeling that had your DB had ANY suspicion that night at all what his friend might be thinking, the gun WOULD have been locked up. Your DB shouldn't blame himself. I hope he can muck his way through this horrible situation :sadeyes

I am so shocked to read all of this. Stay strong for you man sweetie! We are all here to support you!

It isn't your DB's fault that his friend happened to use your DB's gun as his suicide weapon.
Your DB had it unloaded, and I am going to assume had the bullets put away (you said he wasn't sure how his friend got it loaded) So he was being as safe as he could.

One would argue that he shouldn't have had the gun out in the first place.... but again, the bullets weren't out so in your DB's mind, there was no danger. There were also only suspicions of his friend having serious problems, nothing had been confirmed. I am going to guess that at least that night, your DB felt his friend was just fine. Therefor, there wouldn't be danger especially with the bullets put away.

What it all comes down to is this: whether or not the gun shouldn't have been out at ALL is irrelevant. If this guy was serious about killing himself, he would have done it no matter what. Perhaps not that night with your DB's gun, but maybe a different night.... maybe he would have figured out how to unlock the gun.... or maybe he would have hanged himself... or drank something poisonous. If he truly felt like he needed to die, he would have found a way to go about it.

My uncle killed himself... shot himself in the head as well. And I have been suicidal.
My uncle managed to get his father's (my grandpa's) guns unlocked so he could use one
and I never attempted because of my experience with my uncles suicide. However, my plan of suicide was simple. I had everything I needed right in my bathroom.

It was your DB's gun..... that doesn't mean it is your DB's fault.

I agree so much with this, especially the bolded. I have a feeling that had your DB had ANY suspicion that night at all what his friend might be thinking, the gun WOULD have been locked up. Your DB shouldn't blame himself. I hope he can muck his way through this horrible situation :sadeyes
:agree

try not to think too harshly of your db's roommate... he was obviously in a lot of pain & turmoil to do something so drastic, and could not have been thinking properly to make that kind of erratic decision

I know, I'm trying not too. I understand that he was probably going through something extremely bad, and he did not recieve the proper help he needed. I don't know what he saw during his deployment. I am trying not to be so upset with his roommate but it's just..one of those stages you go through in dealing with something like this kwim?

I know if his roommate had been thinking rationally then he wouldnt' have wished this on any of us.


I have a couple questions though....in the other post it says your DB's friend...and then it even says his friends wife asked for him and another friend to say something. Was the guy married then?

It was DB's friend, recently DB was having trouble making payments for rent, and this guy moved in with him to help out and to split the rent costs of the apartment, seeing as how DB and I weren't married.

I know that it may have been confusing, but no that guy did not have a wife. A lot of the guys in DB's unit and who were also friends with this guy are married. We often talked to them about this guy, and if there was something potentially wrong.

A few of the guys are in WLC school right now, and I've kept in close contact with their wives throughout this whole thing. I think DB is going to be staying with one of them, this weekend. Sorry, we just have a whole group of guys and their wives & girlfriends that all hang out together lol sorry for the confusion

since when is E4 barred from affiliating with E5?

since when is E4 barred from affiliating with E5?


They're trying to say since DB is an NCO now, and his roommate wasn't, and that they shouldn't have been living together. What kind of BS is that? I could understand a CO and enlisted personel.

They're trying to say since DB is an NCO now, and his roommate wasn't, and that they shouldn't have been living together. What kind of BS is that? I could understand a CO and enlisted personel.

Were they leasing an apartment together? If they signed the lease before your db picked up E5 and are committed to a lease I don't think he can get in trouble for fraternizing. He can get in trouble if any of the people that shared the beer were underage. I've been trying to find something about it in the UCMJ but it only talks about commissioned officers not fraternizing with enlisted people.

The only thing he could get the article 15 for is if his roommate was in his direct chain of command and they went out for dinner/beer. I sent you a PM with some other useful information- :hugs to both of you!

They weren't in direct chain of command. His roommate wasn't even in his unit, he was in a flight unit and DB didn't have any type of command over him.

thank you for pointing out the alcohol issue gwynn. That makes more sense to me. I'm checking your message now.

I am so sorry. What a tragic situation. :hugs and :pray to all involved and for all involved! I hope things work out okay.

I am so sorry to hear your DB is going through this. Was this at the barracks, or an off post apartment? I was kind of assuming it was the barracks but was not sure, they cannot tell them who to live with off base.But an E4 living off base is pretty rare anyway, unless he has a waiver signed by his CO. If he was living off base without a waiver, he probably still had a barracks room, so they would not technically know he "lived" with your boyfriend, and could not press charges against your guy. But honestly, an E5 and E4 can live off base together, and not have any issues. I have tons of friends who are roomies in the same situation. And my husband, as an E5, hangs out with, and goes to dinner, and even has beers with friends in his company that are E4 and below, heck, even the senior NCO's do, and I have never heard of anyone getting an article 15 for it. We go to dinners in groups all of the time. I did not know the set up, and I did not want to make an assumption that was not true. So, I was just wondering.

If he had a personal firearm, at the barracks,that would be the reason I am thinking he is getting into trouble, and he could get into TONS of trouble for that. From my understanding, guns of any kind are not allowed in the barracks. I sure hope that you guys can get this figured out. :hugs

im sorry for your bf's loss.

It's not going to get ANYONE in trouble. An Article 15 is not the same as a full on military investigation or Court Martial. That, plus the "charge" isn't severe. It's a simple case of fraternization in which it can be easily proven the two are not to blame.

I agree and ART 15 is just a Captains Mast in other words nonjudicial punishment. I don't understand because the fraternization rules are one up and one down the chain of command. Being an E-4 and an E-5 means they were both petty officers in Navy terms and should of been fine being room mates. Had he been an E-6 rooming with an E-4 then I could see their point. My DH would understand better though he has all of those codes and laws memorized and since the UCMJ is the same for all branches it doesn't matter that I am thinking in Navy terms KWIM.

Your DB can request a court martial rather then the ART 15 if he feels the command is not justified in punishing him, he needs to talk with Jag for advice. Although if he wins the Court Martial it means absolutely nothing happens to him if he loses the punishment will be more severe then a Art 15.Good Luck to him.

Is he in the Marine's because they are the only branch that does not treat E-4's as NCO's so maybe that is part of the problem? (they used to but I am finding things that say they have changed that BUT I don't know if they can really do that since the UCMJ would see E-4 and above as various versions of NCO (Junior and Senior NCO's depending on rank)

Is he in the Marine's because they are the only branch that does not treat E-4's as NCO's so maybe that is part of the problem?

Army doesn't treat them as NCO's either, however, the Army still has the one up one down rule. I really don't see how the command has a leg to stand on, it just seems like they're grasping for straws.

Wow I am so sorry about the loss.... and all the stuff that your DB is going threw. I hope all goes as well as it can in this kind of situation.

Army doesn't treat them as NCO's either, however, the Army still has the one up one down rule. I really don't see how the command has a leg to stand on, it just seems like they're grasping for straws.

I tend to agree I think they just want to pin the "blame" on someone and hopefully they come to their senses soon.

Is he in the Marine's because they are the only branch that does not treat E-4's as NCO's so maybe that is part of the problem? (they used to but I am finding things that say they have changed that BUT I don't know if they can really do that since the UCMJ would see E-4 and above as various versions of NCO (Junior and Senior NCO's depending on rank)

In the Army, an E4 is either a Specialist or a Corporal. When promoted to Corporal, from Specialist, it is only a linear promotion, where they stay the same pay grade, but gain responsibility. A Specialist is not an NCO, but a Corporal is considered a Junior NCO. Honestly, most of the time, they skip from Specialist, to SGT, with no CPL between. But, I am pretty sure that it does not make a difference int he one up, one down rule.

I tend to agree I think they just want to pin the "blame" on someone and hopefully they come to their senses soon.

Exactly, and I really really hope they aren't going to follow through with this :no

DB said he's going to talk to the Sgt. Major's tomorrow. So we will see what happens.

I have been wondering if you found anything out today after your DB went to talk to the Sargent Major today. I hope your DB is not in trouble. I was looking for the news story, and could not find anything. Even my husband was asking around, because I guess if a soldier, does something like this, all of Ft. Bragg will be doing classes on safety, PTSD, and other helpful things to avoid situations like this sometime soon, and he has not heard anything yet. At the very least, most soldiers on Ft. Bragg will have some sort of briefing to avoid future instances of things like this. I hope you have good news in the next few days about all of this. Him getting in trouble for something he could not help is definitely not fair. Hang in there. :hugs

holy crap...girl I ams so sorry! :pray

i'm sorry to read about this situation you're going through. it really sounds like your bf got the raw end of the deal here. it makes no sense to me about the fraternization with a non-officer...especially if he just made NCO. the military is so strict on its policies. i am sorry that you guys are caught in the middle of this nightmare. my prayers and thoughts go out to your family at this time. :( ::hugs::