Ok, do you think it's possible to make racist comments and not BE racist?
Or sexist, or religion-ist, or whatever?

PUBLIC poll. I don't want anyone surprised by it. :)

Yes

no

Yes.

For example, when I was in middle school, people said, "That's Jewish." I have NO idea why. Or if someone was being dumb, people would say "Stop being a Jew." People said it ALL the time. It actually REPLACED "retarded".

The problem is, now when I'm with friends I've been with since kindergarten, I say, "That's Jewish." I actually LOVE the Jewish religion. I think it's one of the most beautiful religions, along with Catholicism, and so steeped in holiness and tradition. It's such an amazingly RICH faith, and I have a lot of respect FOR Jews.

...but I still say, "That's Jewish".

Is it possible to say that, and not be racist (or religionist?)

yes

Simply put, yes.

Among friends, sure. I used to hang out and tease my gay friend about being my little fairy boy allllll the time. Of course, he'd tease me right back for all kinds of things. It was all in good fun, no feelings were hurt, nothing was meant by it. (Anyone who's been on the board for a little while should know by now how in favor I am of gay rights and equality... lol)

However, there is DEFINITELY a time and a place. And you can't say anything around just anyone.....

yes

But arent those offenseive to someone?

For example, when I was in middle school, people said, "That's Jewish." I have NO idea why. Or if someone was being dumb, people would say "Stop being a Jew." People said it ALL the time. It actually REPLACED "retarded".

The problem is, now when I'm with friends I've been with since kindergarten, I say, "That's Jewish." I actually LOVE the Jewish religion. I think it's one of the most beautiful religions, along with Catholicism, and so steeped in holiness and tradition. It's such an amazingly RICH faith, and I have a lot of respect FOR Jews.

...but I still say, "That's Jewish".

Is it possible to say that, and not be racist (or religionist?)


I don't think it makes people sound racist (because I know exactly what you're talking about)..... I think it makes them sound a little.... ignorant perhaps?

Words like "gay" and "retard" and "jewish" have almost lost their true meaning in today's culture. They can almost (sadly) be grouped with words like "asshole," "moron," "stupid" etc.

It's kinda like when I hear little kids calling eachother "douchebags"..... and when questioned, they have NO idea what a douchebag even is.

Kinda just.... using the wrong word to make a point I guess. :dunno

I think that someone may feel that they can say things like that but not be racist/sexist/ageist/whateverist, but in reality, racism/sexism/isms are a matter of perception. The thing that makes a statement or action racist/-ist is the perception that others have of the situation.

When a statement is made that is derogatory toward another race, gender, nationality, etc, the perception is one of racism/sexism/-ism.

Perception is reality.

But arent those offenseive to someone?

Is that directed towards me or Kiwijus?

If it's me...

I would never, ever tease anyone if I knew it wasn't totally welcomed (and returned). That was just the kind of friendship that him and I had... silly.

Like I said, there's a time and a place. I do think its possible to tease someone without being racist/sexist/homophobic/ethnocentric/etc.

yes.

IF said at the right time and place with the people you know who are not going ot be offended.

In my mind there is a difference between acknowledging certain stereotypes in certain situations... (stereotypes exist for a reason, after all, for better or worse) and being a flat out ignorant, unabashed racist.

I think that someone may feel that they can say things like that but not be racist/sexist/ageist/whateverist, but in reality, racism/sexism/isms are a matter of perception. The thing that makes a statement or action racist/-ist is the perception that others have of the situation.

When a statement is made that is derogatory toward another race, gender, nationality, etc, the perception is one of racism/sexism/-ism.

Perception is reality.

I disagree with the bolded statement. Like I've said before, there's definitely a time and a place. But I also think that things can be taken waaaaay out of context if you don't know the whole story.

yes my friends and i have said -ist things to each other before and it is 100% a joke and they know it.

See, someone said "there's a time and a place". Usually, that means behind closed doors. Also, it usually means that persons of that particular group are not present.

Here's my barometer: if you would use your term in front of a stranger from the group you are "describing" and not be worried about offending them at all, then it's fine. If not, and you feel you have to "put it in context" because they could possibly be offended, don't use it.

Yes.

It's kinda like when I hear little kids calling eachother "douchebags"..... and when questioned, they have NO idea what a douchebag even is.



I have to tell a story on this. When I was in like 3rd or 4th grade, I was in the parking lot to my school waiting on my mom to lock up since she did the after school program. Two kids rode by and I guess I was in their way and one yelled "Get out of the way, you faggot!". I went home and looked it up and remembered thinking how stupid and lame I thought they were for calling me "a bundle of sticks" :rofl

my comment was a general one...

but what if you are of race x and you overhear someone making jokes about race x...Its not funny to race x, but its a hoot between two people, it makes no sense to me.

Im just gonna say yes and leave it at that.

Sure. My friends and I do it constantly(we're a very mixed bag:lol). Would it be appropriate to say to anyone who was NOT a close friend? Maybe not, si why bother? People are too easily offended.

Frankly, y'all can call me anything you want, anytime. I honestly do not give a shit. :rofl

Also...douche isn't even considered safe to use anymore by most doctors, so calling someone a douchebag is starting to make more sense. :lol

See, someone said "there's a time and a place". Usually, that means behind closed doors. Also, it usually means that persons of that particular group are not present.

Here's my barometer: if you would use your term in front of a stranger from the group you are "describing" and not be worried about offending them at all, then it's fine. If not, and you feel you have to "put it in context" because they could possibly be offended, don't use it.

But that could be with anything. Some people are extremely offended by talking about breastfeeding or medical problems or anything can be offensive so by that logic you shouldn't talk when you are out. Extreme I know. However by saying put things in context is completely reasonable if you only hear snippets of someone's conversation sure it could sound offensive but if you go on to listen they could be telling a story about something they heard on tv. for example if you walk past and hear "and then that n word" and that's all you hear you could think oh damn that person is a serious racist but they could be talking about something Chris Rock said in a comedy special right?

I work with a man that's half Mexican and we all, including him, joke about it. His gardner showed up while we were at his BBQ and he said he only hired him until his kids are old enough to do it. None of us are racist against Mexicans, and we all pick on each other for random things. One guy's a raging redhead, I'm the cracka ass cracka blonde girl, etc.

But that could be with anything. Some people are extremely offended by talking about breastfeeding or medical problems or anything can be offensive so by that logic you shouldn't talk when you are out. Extreme I know. However by saying put things in context is completely reasonable if you only hear snippets of someone's conversation sure it could sound offensive but if you go on to listen they could be telling a story about something they heard on tv. for example if you walk past and hear "and then that n word" and that's all you hear you could think oh damn that person is a serious racist but they could be talking about something Chris Rock said in a comedy special right?

First off...I cannot stress this enough: NO ONE AT ALL SHOULD BE USING THE N WORD ANYMORE! So, if you ARE talking about some Chris Rock special, and are repeating something he said (and I don't agree that people of a group can use a word...it's ridiculous!), simply use the phrase "'n' word".

And we're talking racist statements, homophobic statements. If I just walked by someone saying a racist term, I am certainly not going to just ASSUME they're racist, but I am certainly going to be wondering why they are just so at ease using such a term. AND why are they saying it so loudly? AND what if a child is in hearing range?

I just don't think there's many justifiable reasons for using hate speech...there are many comedians who are clean enough to not use it and still be hilarious. If you are having an educational conversation in a classroom, I can see using it there.

I've been on the receiving end of so many insults in my life (not saying what kind), but just as someone said, my perception is my reality. How can you feel comfortable saying hateful words and then laughing??

Honestly, when people are so concerned with not offending others, I think THAT is racist. If what I say is with good intention, why should I worry? I never think about people's color or birthplace. It strikes me as funny that so many people apparently DO and are therefore offended by words.

I'm a lot of things-most often "spearchucker" but what does it matter? Im proud of my dual ethnicity and sort of stoked people notice it. I guess I just don't understand why so many people are easily offended about a LOT of things, and this is just one of them.

First off...I cannot stress this enough: NO ONE AT ALL SHOULD BE USING THE N WORD ANYMORE! So, if you ARE talking about some Chris Rock special, and are repeating something he said (and I don't agree that people of a group can use a word...it's ridiculous!), simply use the phrase "'n' word".

And we're talking racist statements, homophobic statements. If I just walked by someone saying a racist term, I am certainly not going to just ASSUME they're racist, but I am certainly going to be wondering why they are just so at ease using such a term. AND why are they saying it so loudly? AND what if a child is in hearing range?

I just don't think there's many justifiable reasons for using hate speech...there are many comedians who are clean enough to not use it and still be hilarious. If you are having an educational conversation in a classroom, I can see using it there.

I've been on the receiving end of so many insults in my life (not saying what kind), but just as someone said, my perception is my reality. How can you feel comfortable saying hateful words and then laughing??
i fully agree with you but context is important, if they are saying something they read about or heard and you in general only catch a snippet you can't know the full story. i wasn't tryikng to say the n word or anything is ever okay, i was using it as an example since all of us agree it is wrong to use

See, someone said "there's a time and a place". Usually, that means behind closed doors. Also, it usually means that persons of that particular group are not present.

Here's my barometer: if you would use your term in front of a stranger from the group you are "describing" and not be worried about offending them at all, then it's fine. If not, and you feel you have to "put it in context" because they could possibly be offended, don't use it.

That would be me who said "there's a time and a place." There's a time and a place for just about ANY kind of joke. There's times and places where things are appropriate.... and times and places where things aren't appropriate. Pretty simple....

Also, I don't joke "behind closed doors" where "persons of that particular group are not present."

In the example I gave.... I was talking about a gay friend, and we had silly affectionate names for eachother. He was my little fairy boy... and I was his sexy bitch. No harm, no foul.

Anyway, I'm in a really bad mood today... so if this sounds "snarky" or anything, please don't take it that way... that's not how it was intended. I think I'll step out now.... I'm not gonna waste energy defending myself when I know there's nothing I've done that I should be feeling bad about.

yes my friends and i have said -ist things to each other before and it is 100% a joke and they know it.

:yes My friends and I make joking comments all the time.But it is 100% joking and it never crosses the line.

That would be me who said "there's a time and a place." There's a time and a place for just about ANY kind of joke. There's times and places where things are appropriate.... and times and places where things aren't appropriate. Pretty simple....

Also, I don't joke "behind closed doors" where "persons of that particular group are not present."

In the example I gave.... I was talking about a gay friend, and we had silly affectionate names for eachother. He was my little fairy boy... and I was his sexy bitch. No harm, no foul.

Anyway, I'm in a really bad mood today... so if this sounds "snarky" or anything, please don't take it that way... that's not how it was intended. I think I'll step out now.... I'm not gonna waste energy defending myself when I know there's nothing I've done that I should be feeling bad about.
i have to agree there i'm done here too, feel better hun

That would be me who said "there's a time and a place." There's a time and a place for just about ANY kind of joke. There's times and places where things are appropriate.... and times and places where things aren't appropriate. Pretty simple....

Also, I don't joke "behind closed doors" where "persons of that particular group are not present."

In the example I gave.... I was talking about a gay friend, and we had silly affectionate names for eachother. He was my little fairy boy... and I was his sexy bitch. No harm, no foul.

Anyway, I'm in a really bad mood today... so if this sounds "snarky" or anything, please don't take it that way... that's not how it was intended. I think I'll step out now.... I'm not gonna waste energy defending myself when I know there's nothing I've done that I should be feeling bad about.


;) No offense ever taken...It's a discussion.

Hope you feel better! :hugs

I agree with the "n" word not being appropriate. Although I'm not going to jump on someone for using it if I don't know what context it's being used in.

I'm a total mix of races. I'm not racist, but I do make jokes about my races all the time. I don't know if it offends anyone else, and it really doesn't matter to me, because I'm not saying anything with a malicious intent. Plus, most people know I'm part this and that and this and that...so they know where I'm coming from.

But that could be with anything. Some people are extremely offended by talking about breastfeeding or medical problems or anything can be offensive so by that logic you shouldn't talk when you are out. Extreme I know. However by saying put things in context is completely reasonable if you only hear snippets of someone's conversation sure it could sound offensive but if you go on to listen they could be telling a story about something they heard on tv. for example if you walk past and hear "and then that n word" and that's all you hear you could think oh damn that person is a serious racist but they could be talking about something Chris Rock said in a comedy special right?

THANK YOU.

People who make blind ASSUMPTIONS and don't care enough to find out the whole story drive me crazy.

It's people with this attitude who willingly believe all the bullshit emails going around about Obama being a "terrorist" or Starbucks "not supporting the troops" blah blah blah.

It's just.... ignorant.

Okay I'm really stepping out.... I need to go take some bitch pills. Sorry, guys.

THANK YOU.

People who make blind ASSUMPTIONS and don't care enough to find out the whole story drive me crazy.

It's people with this attitude who willingly believe all the bullshit emails going around about Obama being a "terrorist" or Starbucks "not supporting the troops" blah blah blah.

It's just.... ignorant.

Okay I'm really stepping out.... I need to go take some bitch pills. Sorry, guys.


Well, to blindly believe anything you read without interjecting your own common sense is incredibly short sighted and possibly dangerous. Lemming living is quite common, sadly :(

See, someone said "there's a time and a place". Usually, that means behind closed doors. Also, it usually means that persons of that particular group are not present.

Here's my barometer: if you would use your term in front of a stranger from the group you are "describing" and not be worried about offending them at all, then it's fine. If not, and you feel you have to "put it in context" because they could possibly be offended, don't use it.

I agree!

i have done it before. it may not be right. but some of them are pretty funny.

Put the shoe on the other foot...

This site gets in an uproar if people say things for example about breast feeding and how they dont want to see it in public...Is it ok for them because they are just talking about it on here in conversation?

Put the shoe on the other foot...

This site gets in an uproar if people say things for example about breast feeding and how they dont want to see it in public...Is it ok for them because they are just talking about it on here in conversation?

Those two things aren't compatible for comparison. Breastfeeding is a lifestyle choice. You can't choose race.

So is being Gay, its a lifestyle...And it is just conversation isnt it?

I voted no. I think "the truest things are said in jest", or when inhibitions are down (like while drinking).

And what happens if these comments slip out of someones mouth in public, or someones children hears it and repeats them?

I guess I take the stand that if you wouldnt want a stranger talking or joking about you (race, sex, creed, etc) then why do it?

Hubby and I make sexist and racist jokes at eachother all the time
*me mexican him white*
I don't get offended because we both know its just a joke.
His southern family has made some jokes about me being mexican "not what they expected" But they treat me with alot of respect otherwise. They treat me like family though, and have gone out of their way to include me in things.

:tuI voted no. I think "the truest things are said in jest", or when inhibitions are down (like while drinking).

For example, when I was in middle school, people said, "That's Jewish." I have NO idea why. Or if someone was being dumb, people would say "Stop being a Jew." People said it ALL the time. It actually REPLACED "retarded".

The problem is, now when I'm with friends I've been with since kindergarten, I say, "That's Jewish." I actually LOVE the Jewish religion. I think it's one of the most beautiful religions, along with Catholicism, and so steeped in holiness and tradition. It's such an amazingly RICH faith, and I have a lot of respect FOR Jews.

...but I still say, "That's Jewish".

Is it possible to say that, and not be racist (or religionist?)

In your example, no, thats "-ist" because you should know better. Ask yourself WHY you say "thats jewish" and in what context? Are you saying it as a negative?

If I were to say "Thats so Army" when someone does something really dumb, and you overheard me, what would YOU think about me?

So is being Gay, its a lifestyle...And it is just conversation isnt it?

Sorry, but I have known way too many people who are gay/lesbian. I do not believe it is a "lifestyle choice". If they could choose to be anything they wanted, they would not have chosen to be in a lifestyle condemned by so many people. I should preface that with MOST gays/lesbians.

OP...sorry for the threadjack! Just had to put that in there.

i voted no because i honestly do feel that even if you are using it in jest with someone who is ok with it that someone it could hurt or offend could still hear it.

i also voted this way because the word you use to replace stupid or dumb should not be derogatory to another race , gender, religion etc...

i hate when races use ugly words like the n word with or towards each other , i hate when gays use horrible words in jest with one another, i hate when woman use nasty words against each other.

to me it makes them racist towards their own. that in itself is shameful but when you are not that race and you use those words in a condescending manner it can hurt someone else even unintentionally and makes you look ignorant.

thats just my opinion on the subject not on any one person just my opinion on the topic overall. no one has to agree with me, just as i do not have to agree with anyone else.

Sorry, but I have known way too many people who are gay/lesbian. I do not believe it is a "lifestyle choice". If they could choose to be anything they wanted, they would not have chosen to be in a lifestyle condemned by so many people. I should preface that with MOST gays/lesbians.

OP...sorry for the threadjack! Just had to put that in there.

I have a couple of gay/lesbian friends who have told me they choose to be gay/lesbian/bi
:dunno maybe some do and some don't

I have a couple of gay/lesbian friends who have told me they choose to be gay/lesbian/bi
:dunno maybe some do and some don't

That is why I put "I should preface that with MOST gays/lesbians." My friends have always told me that they would rather be "straight." However, I do know several of my students who have claimed to be gay/lesbian because they think it's the cool thing to do...or because they want to go against the grain.

That is why I put "I should preface that with MOST gays/lesbians." My friends have always told me that they would rather be "straight." However, I do know several of my students who have claimed to be gay/lesbian because they think it's the cool thing to do...or because they want to go against the grain.

sorry, sometimes I read so fast I didn't see the "Most"
part

So is being Gay, its a lifestyle...And it is just conversation isnt it?

I also don't think most people choose to be gay.

I voted no. I think "the truest things are said in jest", or when inhibitions are down (like while drinking).

Well, then I totally hate myself for being such a raping, pillaging, scalping, woo-wooing piece of mixed blood work. :lol

Give me a break.:rofl

For example, when I was in middle school, people said, "That's Jewish." I have NO idea why. Or if someone was being dumb, people would say "Stop being a Jew." People said it ALL the time. It actually REPLACED "retarded".

The problem is, now when I'm with friends I've been with since kindergarten, I say, "That's Jewish." I actually LOVE the Jewish religion. I think it's one of the most beautiful religions, along with Catholicism, and so steeped in holiness and tradition. It's such an amazingly RICH faith, and I have a lot of respect FOR Jews.

...but I still say, "That's Jewish".

Is it possible to say that, and not be racist (or religionist?)


That came from Southpark. I didn't read all the pages so I might be repeating something, but ya, that came from southpark, Cartman used to make fun of his jewwish buddy. kids in my school used to say "he got jewwed" as in, he got screwed or bably treated.

We always used to say "thats gay" for something that was lame or dumb. I don't we understood exactly what we were saying, it was just a phrase.

sorry, sometimes I read so fast I didn't see the "Most"
part

LOL! It's all good. I'm on so much Zyrtec right now, I can barely keep my head up...much less anything else...so I know the feeling. I'm having to read things two and three times just to make sure I understand HALF of what it's saying...but I'm too bored to stop reading and give up! LOL!

If the things that are being said "between" friends could not be said to that particular group of people in which the reference is being made. Then it does not need to be said. If you have said things that would need to be explained or put into context, then it was the wrong thing to say. I mean, to me, it really makes people sound immature to spout anything derogatory against anyone else. It is so unnecessary, and it could get you into a situation that you can't handle or get out of.

I dont get it...when is it ever right to just say those things and its funny...

I voted no. I think "the truest things are said in jest", or when inhibitions are down (like while drinking).

By that logic, then I really do think I'm fat, I really do hate my superior, I really do want to punch people in the face, and I really do think my new friend/coworker is a "dirty Mexican cracker". That makes NO sense. People make silly jokes ALL the TIME, that does not mean they are speaking truthfully.

I dont make jokes like that...Maybe Im odd...

OP

Indeed, it's possible and I believe that people tend to overreact and make something that isn't racist a racist issue.

Same thing with religious - I'm not a religious person but I do say "Amen" and "Thank God" in posts and so on.
But it doesn't make me a spiritual person or a religious zealot :D

Yes.

No. They might not be offensive to YOU but they more than likely are to someone who doesn't know you but hears you say it. ;) Even if it is more of an innocent "habit", it is still racist. Racist comments mean racist people.

I also think that saying "that is so gay" is the same thing as saying negro (or some other form) or wetback. It's all offensive. I mean if you heard someone joke about those "white trash folks" or "crackers" without knowing them, you might think to yourself "what an insensitive racist jackass."

I think people are too sensitive in general about this stuff. We all look the same when we're cut open with a chainsaw.

In your example, no, thats "-ist" because you should know better. Ask yourself WHY you say "thats jewish" and in what context? Are you saying it as a negative?

If I were to say "Thats so Army" when someone does something really dumb, and you overheard me, what would YOU think about me?

Actually, if you want to get into that, my husband's Air Force so I'd say you were right :teehee

Seriously, I think people take military steryotypes WAAAAYYYY too much to heart. If you said, "Wow he's sitting on his ass. That's so Air Force." I'd laugh at you. Especially if you said it in jest. I'm wholeheartedly, unabashedly in Loretta's corner in this debate. I think it has absolutely nothing to do with the words people use, it's the stigma people put on words (aka, black people can call themselves n-words, but white people aren't ALLOWED to..) and the delivery of such a word.

For example, if I said, "Dane Cook is a silly bitch!" I'm calling him silly, goofy, a goober, a nut, a jokester. If I said, "Guynavywife is a pussy bitch!" I'm....probably not calling you silly, goofy, a goober, a nut, or a jokester, even though I used the term "bitch" in both. However, I'd totally call myself a bitch in pleasant conversation with my friends. :dunno It's all about the delivery to me.

No. They might not be offensive to YOU but they more than likely are to someone who doesn't know you but hears you say it. ;) Even if it is more of an innocent "habit", it is still racist. Racist comments mean racist people.

I also think that saying "that is so gay" is the same thing as saying negro (or some other form) or wetback. It's all offensive. I mean if you heard someone joke about those "white trash folks" or "crackers" without knowing them, you might think to yourself "what an insensitive racist jackass."

Again, it all depends on the delivery. It's kind of funny (and please don't be upset, I promise this has nothing to do with you the person, just you the person who owns the example :P) that you bring up "racist comments mean racist people" when you have four blinkies in your signature including the word "token", three of which are followed by a race, or at very least, a heritage. Are you a racist?

Did any of you guys happen to catch the episode of the Boondocks that aired tonight? Very appropriate:lol

"That kid says nigga more times a day than I breathe, but I say it back to him and I'm in hot water? Nigga please!" :rofl

Kiwijus I have a story to tell you : My friend Lisa is black, she is married to a white man. so one day a couple months ago They made a quick grocery store trip, they were going up and down aisles and Jay says (to himself) out loud, "If I was cracker where would I be"
Lisa busted up laughing so hard, and so did I when she told me. I think its all about the context :)

By that logic, then I really do think I'm fat, I really do hate my superior, I really do want to punch people in the face, and I really do think my new friend/coworker is a "dirty Mexican cracker". That makes NO sense. People make silly jokes ALL the TIME, that does not mean they are speaking truthfully.

On that note, are you saying that because I say "That's Jewish" that I agree with the founding principals of the Holocaust?!?

Believe me, I've been in Temples, I've listened to Hebrew, SANG in Hebrew, listened to Rabbi's. I don't know much of anything about the Jewish religion, but I love it nonetheless. I mean, I know it's a stretch, but just because I picked up a stupid phrase, doesn't mean I hate, abhorr, or otherwise have malicious intent toward anyone of Jewish race or religion.

Kiwijus I have a story to tell you : My friend Lisa is black, she is married to a white man. so one day a couple months ago They made a quick grocery store trip, they were going up and down aisles and Jay says (to himself) out loud, "If I was racker where would I be"
Lisa busted up laughing so hard, and so did I when she told me. I think its all about the context :)

:blush I should probably ask urban dictionary to avoid public humiliation, but what is a racker?

:blush I should probably ask urban dictionary to avoid public humiliation, but what is a racker?

OOPS I fixed it. My "C" hasn't been working ;)

for me.. this is a complicated question.

I think that you can make 'ist' statements and NOT be 'ist' absolutely... and I even think that some 'ist' statements are EXCELLENT for battling REAL 'ists'
for instance, friends teasing each other with stereotypes which is ultimately MAKING FUN of how RIDICULOUS stereotypes can be... that and.. it is all in good fun.

however, I think that certain jokes arent appropriate for a crowd you dont know very well because YES some things DO hurt people and we SHOULD be a tad more careful NOT hurting people... should we be EXTREME PC? no.. that would be silly (for instance, the term 'african-american.' that would be ridiculous to use ALL the time because not ALL black people are african.. and not ALL africans are black...) if it is something you do PURELY because you KNOW it is NOT PC and you KNOW it hurts LOTS of peoples feelings? there probably isnt any point in doing it in a crowd where you dont know how everyone might react or feel.
but then.. i believe that if people tried just a tad harder at being nicer to everyone, we would have less world problems... :)


as for kiwi's 'jew' example... when I hear people say things like that (thats so gay/retarded/jewish/etc) I don't automatically think that they are 'ist' ... I actually think instead that they are ignorant. Not just because what they say is horribly offensive... but because it is so INCORRECT. it just doesnt MAKE SENSE.... UNLESS you are trying to say that anything gay/retarded/jewish is BAD... which is just plain MEAN and makes you 'ist' ... but most people dont actually mean it that way... so really, I just hear ignorance... and just try to move on.

as far as calling peoplea douche... I was always confused by that one... it was always guys calling each other that in school... and all I could think was.... but.. if they ARE a douche.. that would mean they were near a vagina... isnt that considered a good thing??? :giggle I just never understood how a horny straight male teenager would find it BAD to get near a vagina....

So I guess... I do think you can make 'ist' statements without being 'ist' but you DO need to wonder... if you aren't in the appropriate context (because I do feel there are... ) and you DONT think you are 'ist' ... maybe you should reconsider that? either you AREN'T and watch what you say in certain circumstances or you ARE... I have a hard time believing anyone who ISNT 'ist' wouldnt care if a bunch of people thought they were and problems were caused because of it. i mean... it can really screw up a lot of things...

Actually, if you want to get into that, my husband's Air Force so I'd say you were right :teehee

Seriously, I think people take military steryotypes WAAAAYYYY too much to heart. If you said, "Wow he's sitting on his ass. That's so Air Force." I'd laugh at you. Especially if you said it in jest. I'm wholeheartedly, unabashedly in Loretta's corner in this debate. I think it has absolutely nothing to do with the words people use, it's the stigma people put on words (aka, black people can call themselves n-words, but white people aren't ALLOWED to..) and the delivery of such a word.

For example, if I said, "Dane Cook is a silly bitch!" I'm calling him silly, goofy, a goober, a nut, a jokester. If I said, "Guynavywife is a pussy bitch!" I'm....probably not calling you silly, goofy, a goober, a nut, or a jokester, even though I used the term "bitch" in both. However, I'd totally call myself a bitch in pleasant conversation with my friends. :dunno It's all about the delivery to me.

I understand what you are trying to say, I had an couple of times when I joked with my friends, and its never been a big deal.
But a while back one of the guys my hubby knows was talking about how much he hates spick *wetbacks and mexicans* in general.
and I was completely offended... because he was talking about how he wanted to kill all mexicans because they just ruin the whole US.
Now he had no idea I was mexican... even though my name should have given away that I was at least spanish.
after that we never spoke with him again.

I understand what you are trying to say, I had an couple of times when I joked with my friends, and its never been a big deal.
But a while back one of the guys my hubby knows was talking about how much he hates spick *wetbacks and mexicans* in general.
and I was completely offended... because he was talking about how he wanted to kill all mexicans because they just ruin the whole US.
Now he had no idea I was mexican... even though my name should have given away that I was at least spanish.
after that we never spoke with him again.

Ok, see, he's just an asshole. There's a difference between joking and being a prick. You want me to kung fu him for you?

OOPS I fixed it. My "C" hasn't been working ;)

:rofl I was ALL over Google.. they're probably laughing at me at google right now.

yes

Ok, see, he's just an asshole. There's a difference between joking and being a prick. You want me to kung fu him for you?
its okay he got himself kicked out of the air force for being a racist asshole.
so he got what was coming.

its okay he got himself kicked out of the air force for being a racist asshole.
so he got what was coming.

Karma:
The bitch I always wished I could be....

its okay he got himself kicked out of the air force for being a racist asshole.
so he got what was coming.

Roooock on!

Simply put, yes.

Among friends, sure. I used to hang out and tease my gay friend about being my little fairy boy allllll the time. Of course, he'd tease me right back for all kinds of things. It was all in good fun, no feelings were hurt, nothing was meant by it. (Anyone who's been on the board for a little while should know by now how in favor I am of gay rights and equality... lol)

However, there is DEFINITELY a time and a place. And you can't say anything around just anyone.....


:agree

totally
my friends call me a cracker with bean dip all the time cause im half white and half mexican
I tell my gay buddy "OMG you're so gay" like everyday
and he always replies "Like duhh honey. You couldn't figure it out from my excellent taste in fashion..?"
I make fun of my kelvin Vu for being "hella asian" ike everyday too
and he always calls me the "future trophy wife" or "barbie" cause i have blonde hair and large.. uhh... mammary glands... lol ;)
but that's how we are with each other
at the end of the day we respect each other but we like making fun of the stereotypes... ya know?
;)

On that note, are you saying that because I say "That's Jewish" that I agree with the founding principals of the Holocaust?!?

Believe me, I've been in Temples, I've listened to Hebrew, SANG in Hebrew, listened to Rabbi's. I don't know much of anything about the Jewish religion, but I love it nonetheless. I mean, I know it's a stretch, but just because I picked up a stupid phrase, doesn't mean I hate, abhorr, or otherwise have malicious intent toward anyone of Jewish race or religion.

Exactly. That was my point. The statement that all things said in jest are founded in truth is ridiculous. She has yet to respond to me though so :dunno

For example, if I said, "Dane Cook is a silly bitch!" I'm calling him silly, goofy, a goober, a nut, a jokester. If I said, "Guynavywife is a pussy bitch!" I'm....probably not calling you silly, goofy, a goober, a nut, or a jokester, even though I used the term "bitch" in both. However, I'd totally call myself a bitch in pleasant conversation with my friends. :dunno It's all about the delivery to me.

Dane Cook IS a silly bitch and I wanna jump him :rofl

when you have four blinkies in your signature including the word "token", three of which are followed by a race, or at very least, a heritage. Are you a racist?

Question is, how can one be racist against their own heritage when they are proud of it? That would make entirely no sense. I'm also not using any offensive slurs. Now if it said something about being an Irish drunk or what have you then that would be another story. I'm not attempting to learn Irish Gaelic for nothing. ;) And the whole point of it was to be anti-racist. lol

Also, I stick by the "if you wouldn't say it in front of a group people (of that race, religion, sexuality), then you probably shouldn't be saying it period". But I always figured that was common sense. Looking at the polls, either that is something people really lack or they just don't give a shit.

Question is, how can one be racist against their own heritage when they are proud of it? That would make entirely no sense. I'm also not using any offensive slurs. Now if it said something about being an Irish drunk or what have you then that would be another story. I'm not attempting to learn Irish Gaelic for nothing. ;) And the whole point of it was to be anti-racist. lol

Also, I stick by the "if you wouldn't say it in front of a group people (of that race, religion, sexuality), then you probably shouldn't be saying it period". But I always figured that was common sense. Looking at the polls, either that is something people really lack or they just don't give a shit.

How do people know what race you are? They can be JUST as offended by the token whatever blinkies even if they know you ARE that race.

ETA: People DO have Irish drunk type avatars and blinkies.

How do people know what race you are? They can be JUST as offended by the token whatever blinkies even if they know you ARE that race.

ETA: People DO have Irish drunk type avatars and blinkies.
:lmao my brothers is an irish mexican drunk and he is okay with it

Im not offended by comments that mean to generalize... b/c the usually have SOME truth to them...

but just switching a word retarded or lame or stupid with a race or whatever else.... thats wrong.

I would sometimes say "Thats so gay."

And I now understand that this is completely inappropriate and disrespectful. Because by no generalization possible is any one race or community or whatever "retarded" or "stupid".

If you understand this and are old enough to see the reality of what you are saying. I think it shows a great deal of respect to stop using that phrase.

I honestly don't know what I think, I guess it would depend on the situation and the person that was saying the stuff.

I think it is. One of the girls I work with is Mexican. The first day we started work (the same day) she was late and so I sat around the whole morning doing nothing. When she finally got there I gave her a hard time about being "the reason I wasted my morning doing nothing" and the first words I ever heard her say were "Im sorry, they closed the road so I had to swim accross the boarder instead!" While not everyone would probably cool with this, its understood within our dept that we can crack Mexi jokes and not offend her or other in the dept. at the same time, we know that outside the clinic we cannot just say such things as it may offend other people.....so yes, I think you can say "ist" jokes, but not be "ist"

I think it is. One of the girls I work with is Mexican. The first day we started work (the same day) she was late and so I sat around the whole morning doing nothing. When she finally got there I gave her a hard time about being "the reason I wasted my morning doing nothing" and the first words I ever heard her say were "Im sorry, they closed the road so I had to swim accross the boarder instead!" "

:lmao

Im not offended by comments that mean to generalize... b/c the usually have SOME truth to them...

but just switching a word retarded or lame or stupid with a race or whatever else.... thats wrong.

I would sometimes say "Thats so gay."

And I now understand that this is completely inappropriate and disrespectful. Because by no generalization possible is any one race or community or whatever "retarded" or "stupid".

If you understand this and are old enough to see the reality of what you are saying. I think it shows a great deal of respect to stop using that phrase.

a lot of people would argue that you shouldn't use 'retarded' to say stupid either.... because just like generalizing the gay community as stupid, it also sounds as if you are putting down retarded people... and anyone who knows someone who has some form of mental disability/handicap would say that they AREN'T stupid.

my high school's GSA once came up with a list of 50 or something words that are more appropriate to use in place of stupid.... with the last one being "just say stupid" :giggle
I wish I could find it...

Brandejiwn, you contradicted yourself and now I'm confused. :lol

Are you saying no one ever should use race to describe, or is it ok so long as it's done in fun(like your blinkies)or good spirit?

By that logic, then I really do think I'm fat, I really do hate my superior, I really do want to punch people in the face, and I really do think my new friend/coworker is a "dirty Mexican cracker". That makes NO sense. People make silly jokes ALL the TIME, that does not mean they are speaking truthfully.

Exactly. That was my point. The statement that all things said in jest are founded in truth is ridiculous. She has yet to respond to me though so :dunno

Well, you didn't say anything TO me, you quoted me and said what you thought. You weren't asking for a response, you didn't ask me any questions.

And I stand by it. I didn't say ALL things said in jest are founded in truth, I said truest things are said in jest. As a mother, I would QUESTION how I'm raising my child if I heard her making jokes about people of different races/ethnicities/religions/sexual orientation.

And if I EVER heard her say "That's Jewish" or "That's retarded" or "My n-----r" or "That dirty sp-c" etc, even if she was JOKING, she'd be in a world of hurtin'.

Brandejiwn, you contradicted yourself and now I'm confused. :lol

Are you saying no one ever should use race to describe, or is it ok so long as it's done in fun(like your blinkies)or good spirit?

If you had been reading some of the threads, you would know why the blinkies are there. ;) It was sarcasm towards someone that said they could use the word raghead in an offensive way because they had a friend of middle eastern decent who used the word offensively. IMO it is just pretty much showing that person what a fucking idiot she is and that it doesn't make it "okay".

There is a big difference in the intention of the words use. Whatever the word may be.
My husband and friends joke around a lot but on themselves not really each other.

My husband will joke that he takes better pictures of me because of his Asian heritage.
We laugh but he actually does take better pictures.
Anyway, it depends on how and in what situation it is used. I, for one hate the N word and would not say something or someone was being a Jew(ish)

Now with that being said my best friend and her husband is Jewish and they crack on each other all the time. :dunno

It's a fine line and if you do not know someone well you do not know what will offend them. :) Better safe than sorry.

If you had been reading some of the threads, you would know why the blinkies are there. ;) It was sarcasm towards someone that said they could use the word raghead in an offensive way because they had a friend of middle eastern decent who used the word offensively. IMO it is just pretty much showing that person what a fucking idiot she is and that it doesn't make it "okay".

I have a blinkie, too. :lol


So you are saying it's OK so long as it's done with good intention. Otherwise your blinkie is as bad as her statement(by your own words). I gotcha.

That contradicts an earlier post so I was clarifying in case anyone else was confused, too. Thanks:hugs

No, you cannot use racist terms or slurs and not be racist. It's not possible.

By cracking "jokes" that are acceptable, you are still perpetuating the notion that people are different based on a demographic. A joke doesn't make it any less racist - you wouldn't crack a "swimming across the border" joke to an African-American because it wouldn't "fit" - therefore you're guilty of stereotyping. If you're stereotyping, it's a general consensus that you're racist. By propogating terms and names such as those, even in a "no one cares, it's funny" method, you're still bringing attention to that persons demographic in a less-than-politically-correct manner.
People use those jokes not because they're funny but because they're risque and "unacceptable". It's not different than a child playing with a toy simply because they were told not to.
As long as we have corporate and government policies and programs designed to give certain demographics an edge over another demographic, there will be racism. As long as people keep reminding other people that they're different, there will be racism. If you don't want to be considered racist, don't give anyone a reason to think that.

a lot of people would argue that you shouldn't use 'retarded' to say stupid either.... because just like generalizing the gay community as stupid, it also sounds as if you are putting down retarded people... and anyone who knows someone who has some form of mental disability/handicap would say that they AREN'T stupid.

my high school's GSA once came up with a list of 50 or something words that are more appropriate to use in place of stupid.... with the last one being "just say stupid" :giggle
I wish I could find it...


VERY awesome point!!!!

I need to get more used to that one... But that is VERY true... :yes

No, you cannot use racist terms or slurs and not be racist. It's not possible.

By cracking "jokes" that are acceptable, you are still perpetuating the notion that people are different based on a demographic. A joke doesn't make it any less racist - you wouldn't crack a "swimming across the border" joke to an African-American because it wouldn't "fit" - therefore you're guilty of stereotyping. If you're stereotyping, it's a general consensus that you're racist. By propogating terms and names such as those, even in a "no one cares, it's funny" method, you're still bringing attention to that persons demographic in a less-than-politically-correct manner.
People use those jokes not because they're funny but because they're risque and "unacceptable". It's not different than a child playing with a toy simply because they were told not to.
As long as we have corporate and government policies and programs designed to give certain demographics an edge over another demographic, there will be racism. As long as people keep reminding other people that they're different, there will be racism. If you don't want to be considered racist, don't give anyone a reason to think that.


Well said, though I disagree with some parts of it. However I completely disagree with your last paragraph. People were racist long before government involvement.
Think about the "brown bag test."

Well said, though I disagree with some parts of it. However I completely disagree with your last paragraph. People were racist long before government involvement.
Think about the "brown bag test."

Sadly, you're 100% accurate. Racism has indeed existed long before scholarships and affirmative action. My point was that programs such as those have only strengthened racism. While they aren't the root cause of racism, they fuel the fire. I didn't mean to sound as though I'm blaming the government and corporations for racism. I do mean to sound as though I'm blaming them for telling us it's unacceptable to be racist, then have programs running that promotes racism.