They can get whatever they want because they're white.

White women have been just as shit on as any minority in this country - remember, we (all women) only were permitted to vote in 1920.

19 fucking 20

We've only been valued as "More than Moms" since the 50's and we're ALL still challenged with these issues. Black, white and freaking purple.

Pflager can go fuck himself.

I've NEVER been given any advances in life because I'm *white*
I've NEVER been given any advances in life because I'm a woman.

In fact - I've been SHIT on BECAUSE I am a woman.

What - people think that African Americans, Mexicans and Chinese are the only minority in this country to be shit on for being what they were born being?

No - all women are.
ALL WOMEN ARE.

people forget that just being a woman makes you a minority I guess.

Pflager can go fuck himself.

I'm thinking this has something to do with what brought this post on,but I'm not sure what it means. Care to explain (sorry if it's something I should know)?

But anyway, I agree with this completely & I'm glad you said it. I absolutely love being a woman,but it sure as hell has NEVER given me an advantage at all.Women-no matter what race- still face a lot of problem's in society today and I think that's overlooked too often.

people forget that just being a woman makes you a minority I guess.

:yes

the way i figure it your only a minority only if you make yourself out to be one...

what about women from other minority groups?

is it a double minority... or just women? or just whatever they are?



just putting that out there.

My Mexican American friend always told me being a Latina woman made her a double minority because she would get looked down on for both issues. (being a woman & being Mexican)

It's never been benificial on the scale of success and favoritism to be female - your gender is considered and pointed out and put down before your race.

You're a woman first (yep, boobs and hormones - the whole nine yards)
and your race is considered second *only* if you're a female.

That seems to be my standard exposure, though - that's how I've come to believe our country, in general, functions.

Pflager is a hot-topic minister who was caught preaching a few insulting anti-women tidbits at Obama's old church.
Pflager is a hypocrite, btw, because he's very "anti white" yet he is white.

Someone explain that, please. :giggle I'm confused.

I dont think they are saying that women dont face issues I think its the fact that when your black your seen as black first woman second so its a double whammy.

Also if you look back the feminist movement has largely not been suppourtive of non white women, causing many factions and breaks in what could and should be a strong force.

I beg to differ a little. While I think we(as women) have gone through a lot in the past...these days, it's pretty straightforward for a woman to get ahead. It's as hard but not harder than it is for a man, IMO...so long as you're good looking.

I think, honestly, what holds people back is their looks and their income. Now how sad is that?:sadeyes
We've gone from one superficial prejudice to another.:no

I don't think females are statistically a minority. Are we?

I don't think females are statistically a minority. Are we?

Only in Alaska:lol The ratio of men to women there is like 6 to 1 I think. The rest of the country averages out pretty well, though.

I would really like to read the speech if you have it

I watched his stupid ass on TV. What a piece of work he is.

I beg to differ a little. While I think we(as women) have gone through a lot in the past...these days, it's pretty straightforward for a woman to get ahead. It's as hard but not harder than it is for a man, IMO...so long as you're good looking.

I think, honestly, what holds people back is their looks and their income. Now how sad is that?:sadeyes
We've gone from one superficial prejudice to another.:no

I think pretty woman can make a hell of a lot of money based on that fact.
But *success* isn't defined quite so simply, to mee...Success is more than money.

If Hillary was drop dead gorgeous she would already have taken the nomination and this stupid crap would be over with.
AFterall - that's what a lot of people say possitive about Obama "he's young and good looking"
Though I think he's :pukey

It's not straight forward to get ahead unless you're willing to sell your body (modeling, flaunting, etc)
You can't be a pretty woman and smart and expect people to actually, genuinely, give you respect that you *earn* in the workforce because you're intelligent and in control of your finances....Even then you will always be undermined by people who feel you used your looks in your favor - even if you didn't.

Double standard...Most people will always assume looks are your key even when your brains might have been what threw the lock.

hmmm... interesting post....I don't really get it, but ok...

I kinda feel like this country no longer has a "minority" of any race or gender... I feel like it's more of a way of thinking than a reality if that makes since.
If you go around thinking "I'm a minority" then people are for sure going to come across as treating you like that.

I personally did think Hillary felt she was entitled - not because she's white, as Pflager said - but because she's a Clinton and they are the face of the Democratic party.

I haven't heard anyone, at any point, who actually supports what he says. Obama denounced him and so has everyone else that has come onto the radar screen.

If he said it then a lot of people feel it.

Maybe it depends on your family and where you've lived (all the many places - considering we're all military) but I've been told countless times things like "You can't do that, you're a woman" or "My woman's never going to ride a motorcycle" and "You're a true with, aint you?" (long story behind that one)

Perhaps it's my Arkansas living - but Women, in general, are treated like shit and highly disrespected and laughed at whenever we "try to step above our station"

Even my own father has told me things like this - and he's freaking Minister (he's the first and foremost reason why I don't attend church)

Church = hypocritical BS
and perhaps that view of mine is why I'm so much so against all this "from the mouth of the minister" bigotry and sexism.

Only in Alaska:lol The ratio of men to women there is like 6 to 1 I think. The rest of the country averages out pretty well, though.
you know i've always heard that i lived there for 9 years and nope...didnt see that many guys :lmao

If he said it then a lot of people feel it.

Maybe it depends on your family and where you've lived (all the many places - considering we're all military) but I've been told countless times things like "You can't do that, you're a woman" or "My woman's never going to ride a motorcycle" and "You're a true with, aint you?" (long story behind that one)

Perhaps it's my Arkansas living - but Women, in general, are treated like shit and highly disrespected and laughed at whenever we "try to step above our station"

Even my own father has told me things like this - and he's freaking Minister (he's the first and foremost reason why I don't attend church)

Church = hypocritical BS
and perhaps that view of mine is why I'm so much so against all this "from the mouth of the minister" bigotry and sexism.

I think the environment has a lot to do with it. This is my first venture into the south and it's a hell of a lot different than the attitudes I'm used to back in New England. Beyond playing sports in elementary school, I haven't ever been told I can't do something because I'm a girl :dunno I guess I'm lucky.

If he said it then a lot of people feel it.

Maybe it depends on your family and where you've lived (all the many places - considering we're all military) but I've been told countless times things like "You can't do that, you're a woman" or "My woman's never going to ride a motorcycle" and "You're a true with, aint you?" (long story behind that one)

Perhaps it's my Arkansas living - but Women, in general, are treated like shit and highly disrespected and laughed at whenever we "try to step above our station"

Even my own father has told me things like this - and he's freaking Minister (he's the first and foremost reason why I don't attend church)

Church = hypocritical BS
and perhaps that view of mine is why I'm so much so against all this "from the mouth of the minister" bigotry and sexism.

I grew up in Texas and attended church and now work in DC. Never once have I been told that I couldn't do something because I'm a girl. Honestly, not once in HS, college or as a working professional have I heard a woman complain that they can't advance because they are a woman. Sure, everyone once in awhile your run into a prick. But most of the time that can be avoided.

I don't know who this Pflager is but he's a schmuck. Not once in my life have I been told I can't because I am female. My girls are the same way...I have never had them be told nope your a girl other than on the playground by a bunch of little boys. :teehee

When I was enlisted, I always had to strive just a little harder and work just a little longer to gain the respect of MOST of my peers (not all).

Now, I'm in a job that people don't see anything but the talents and skillsets first. It's refreshing.

i guess because i am older, i grew up in a world where i was constantly told that i could not do or be something because i am a woman. i have been told that this is womans work and this is mans work etc.... did i believe in it??? no way in he!!

i have three daughters and my husband grew up in a an extremely sexist home and catches himself sometimes spouting the same annoying drivel he grew up with.

telling our children they can be and do whatever they want no matter their gender is something we strive for on a daily basis.

If he said it then a lot of people feel it.

Maybe it depends on your family and where you've lived (all the many places - considering we're all military) but I've been told countless times things like "You can't do that, you're a woman" or "My woman's never going to ride a motorcycle" and "You're a true with, aint you?" (long story behind that one)

Perhaps it's my Arkansas living - but Women, in general, are treated like shit and highly disrespected and laughed at whenever we "try to step above our station"

Even my own father has told me things like this - and he's freaking Minister (he's the first and foremost reason why I don't attend church)

Church = hypocritical BS
and perhaps that view of mine is why I'm so much so against all this "from the mouth of the minister" bigotry and sexism.


I think it's a Southern Bible Belt thing.. My mom lived her whole life in Cali til she married my dad and he moved us all to his hometown in alabama when i was 5. she was constantly shocked with the way even her FIL treated her. she would constantly get crap for working and having my younger bros in daycare. when i started dating i loved the IDEA of a southern gentleman until i actually went on a date with one... i felt so constricted the dude ordered for me and i was like um am i not allowed to talk to the waiter? omg and i would get laughed at for being catholic because we allow women to take part in the service... talk about being backwards...

Even my own father has told me things like this - and he's freaking Minister (he's the first and foremost reason why I don't attend church)

Church = hypocritical BS
and perhaps that view of mine is why I'm so much so against all this "from the mouth of the minister" bigotry and sexism.


I'm sorry your father said such hurtful things to you. My father, although not a preacher, was a sexist jerk, still is in some aspects. I'm also sad to see you so bitter that you attach a stereotype/generalization to all churches (see above underlined quote). I am very proud to be a Christian, I attend church nearly every Sunday. I've been to many churches and yes some are full of condemning hypocrites (one of which I grew up in), but not all of them are. Your opinion is yours, I respect that, but I felt I needed to share my opinion as well.

Sorry for the thread jack. :carryon

Really? A lot of women have never been spoon fed anti-women crap?
Can I move in with you and live with your family?

Oh no! Don't get me wrong - I don't think *all* churches are like that.
I don't even think all parishioners are like that.

Nope nope nope - just a few...very few! But, sadly, the only few that would have been up my alley of interests. :D

Really? A lot of women have never been spoon fed anti-women crap?
Can I move in with you and live with your family?

Oh no! Don't get me wrong - I don't think *all* churches are like that.
I don't even think all parishioners are like that.

Nope nope nope - just a few...very few! But, sadly, the only few that would have been up my alley of interests. :D

My parents made sure to tell me and my two sisters that we can do and achieve whatever we set our mind to. I am now in AL and DH's family (at least his grandparents) are not quiet alright with that. Not that they have directly said anything but his grandma has mentioned numerous times how terrible it would be if we put Miss K into daycare

I think it's a Southern Bible Belt thing.. My mom lived her whole life in Cali til she married my dad and he moved us all to his hometown in alabama when i was 5. she was constantly shocked with the way even her FIL treated her. she would constantly get crap for working and having my younger bros in daycare. when i started dating i loved the IDEA of a southern gentleman until i actually went on a date with one... i felt so constricted the dude ordered for me and i was like um am i not allowed to talk to the waiter? omg and i would get laughed at for being catholic because we allow women to take part in the service... talk about being backwards...

I'm not so sure, really. I'm living in the south, I have many friends who grew up in the south and they are not repressed. We currently live in southern Mississippi, the town we currently live in allows girls to play on the baseball teams (my daughter was one of them). That was and still is not allowed in my hometown which is in the Midwest! The women here are huge part of church services, part of the leadership teams, etc. This is in a southern Baptist Church at that! The Baptist church I grew up in was not like that at all, women's church duties ended at the doors of Sunday school and nursery. As was the case in the Catholic church I used to attend with my aunt during the summers of my childhood. Again all in the midwest. There are women in powerful administrative positions within the school (again would never happen in my hometown). They are in key roles within the community (again not in my hometown). I don't think that it is exclusive to one region over another, or to one religion over another.

Really? A lot of women have never been spoon fed anti-women crap?
Can I move in with you and live with your family?

Oh no! Don't get me wrong - I don't think *all* churches are like that.
I don't even think all parishioners are like that.

Nope nope nope - just a few...very few! But, sadly, the only few that would have been up my alley of interests. :D

The bold part could be the key for me...I don't go to church. :dunno

Oh no! Don't get me wrong - I don't think *all* churches are like that.
I don't even think all parishioners are like that.

Nope nope nope - just a few...very few! But, sadly, the only few that would have been up my alley of interests. :D

I agree and unfortunately it only takes getting burned/hurt one time in any area of life (not just church) to make you want to distance yourself.

I do agree that women can sometimes get the short end of the stick simply because they are women. In all areas of society, especially when it comes to salaries.

However, I have to disagree in the fact that women that come from a race that has been predominantly a minority don't get further discrimination. I am a strong educated Chicana woman, and I, a long with many of my peers and friends growing up through HS and college, have had to fight just a little harder to break through a glass ceiling that has been placed even lower for us than if we were a white woman. It is very possible that the height of this glass ceiling can vary depending on what part of the country you are. however, even here in southern California, where the Mexican-American population is RAPIDLY becoming the majority, women of from Latin American countries still face strong oppositions from different career and social sectors on society simply because of the way they look, the way they speak, the family they come from, the cultural traditions they practice, where and how they grew up, etc. I cannot speak on behalf of African American or Indian, etc, women because I am not one, but from the women of other minorities that I have encountered, the struggle is not always so much different than mine. And to clarify, I haven't only had interaction with women of color, I have also worked along side and have friends that are white women. So I only speak from MY experience and what I have encountered and the stories I have heard from women from many different paths of life. Going to a college such as San Diego State where it houses a very large cultural population, being heavily involved in the career and social aspects of this college, everything from student government to student organizations, and working and growing up in a place like southern California, I feel I have been exposed to a large population of women from different paths of life who have lived many different types of struggles.

AMEN!!!

I think pretty woman can make a hell of a lot of money based on that fact.
But *success* isn't defined quite so simply, to mee...Success is more than money.

If Hillary was drop dead gorgeous she would already have taken the nomination and this stupid crap would be over with.
AFterall - that's what a lot of people say possitive about Obama "he's young and good looking"
Though I think he's :pukey

It's not straight forward to get ahead unless you're willing to sell your body (modeling, flaunting, etc)
You can't be a pretty woman and smart and expect people to actually, genuinely, give you respect that you *earn* in the workforce because you're intelligent and in control of your finances....Even then you will always be undermined by people who feel you used your looks in your favor - even if you didn't.

Double standard...Most people will always assume looks are your key even when your brains might have been what threw the lock.


I wouldn't exactly call my job "flaunting" or "selling my body", but ...ok. :lol
I get what you're saying. :yes

I do agree that women can sometimes get the short end of the stick simply because they are women. In all areas of society, especially when it comes to salaries.

However, I have to disagree in the fact that women that come from a race that has been predominantly a minority don't get further discrimination. I am a strong educated Chicana woman, and I, a long with many of my peers and friends growing up through HS and college, have had to fight just a little harder to break through a glass ceiling that has been placed even lower for us than if we were a white woman. It is very possible that the height of this glass ceiling can vary depending on what part of the country you are. however, even here in southern California, where the Mexican-American population is RAPIDLY becoming the majority, women of from Latin American countries still face strong oppositions from different career and social sectors on society simply because of the way they look, the way they speak, the family they come from, the cultural traditions they practice, where and how they grew up, etc. I cannot speak on behalf of African American or Indian, etc, women because I am not one, but from the women of other minorities that I have encountered, the struggle is not always so much different than mine. And to clarify, I haven't only had interaction with women of color, I have also worked along side and have friends that are white women. So I only speak from MY experience and what I have encountered and the stories I have heard from women from many different paths of life. Going to a college such as San Diego State where it houses a very large cultural population, being heavily involved in the career and social aspects of this college, everything from student government to student organizations, and working and growing up in a place like southern California, I feel I have been exposed to a large population of women from different paths of life who have lived many different types of struggles.

Well said.... exactly what I was thinking!

I wouldn't exactly call my job "flaunting" or "selling my body", but ...ok. :lol
I get what you're saying. :yes

Oh honey - don't you know that 'flaunting' is a very old term for just using your cleavange to get your way in the workforce.

Like when I flashed my old boss during work hours from behind the counter - that was flaunting.
Or just being trashy.
Pick one.

:giggle

I wouldn't exactly call my job "flaunting" or "selling my body", but ...ok. :lol
I get what you're saying. :yes

Oh honey - don't you know that 'flaunting' is a very old term for just using your cleavange to get your way in the workforce.

Like when I flashed my old boss during work hours from behind the counter - that was flaunting.
Or just being trashy.
Pick one.

:giggle

:giggle Is that what that is called? I never knew! ;)

I'm one of those strange people that thinks that everyone sells their body. A secretary sells their hands at typing and voice at answering phones, a surgeon sells his knowledge and trained hands, a artist sells their hands for drawing pictures, etc KWIM?

I don't think that models or adult entertainers are any different. In fact--it's more honest because you know exactly what they are selling. JMHO

I don't think females are statistically a minority. Are we?

:agree statistically it is true....:) As a history major, I took enough women's history classes in College to have a lifetime of support of women being a minority. But I don't want to put everyone to sleep.... :lol

I agree that women have had it hard in history... Hell, one of the reasons they pushed so hard to get the vote was because BLACK men (gasp) were allowed to before them. entitled white women were horrified that they were put AFTER black people (granted... this is by no means the whole story.. but part of it)

however, while men have found it easier to find success in the work force, to be seen as "better" in some ways, BECAUSE of this... men have a lot more put on them for how they can behave and what they can like. Women are allowed to do whatever they want... if they want to go for the job NO WOMAN ever has before, it is wonderful... if a woman wants to dress more masculine, that is her right... however, when MEN go for a job that is traditionally a WOMAN's job.. or dress more feminine... people have a tendency to accuse them of being "girlie boys" and "gay" and "not a real man." Hell, even my step dad has gotten mad at my younger brother for CRYING (and for VALID reason) because he is SUPPOSED to be a man... has yelled at him for LAUGHING too "girlie"

While women have traditionally been suppressed PURELY for being women, we have come SO far where we can do SO much and anyone who tries to keep a woman down is called out for being sexist.
whereas when a man does something of equal nature, he is accused of not being man enough.

men and women are NOT equal right now... and I think that it is becoming, men arent allowed to break masculine stereotypes... men are becoming the ones being suppressed.

I fully agree that women are generally handed a shorter stick.... and sometimes, it is WOMEN handing that stick out (we are NOT nice to each other sometimes) but we have to remember that our stick is becoming a LOT longer... whereas the men's stick isn't getting any longer, and the expectations of MAN is becoming VERY old fashioned.

I see the views in the op but i cant say i agree. As a women i am more likely to be helped if something happens to me in the street etc. If you are an attractive woman you are more likely o get into certain exclusive things. As a black and hispanic women im looked at first because of race then being a women. I feel proud to be a woman i just wish race was accepted as freely. the op stated a white women isnt told she can get whatever she wants but lets just be realistic and this doesnt apply for others but it happens quite often: When a young woman turns her Sweet 16 whos more likely to get a shiny brand new car? A White Girl or a minority? And who is more likely to get sent on a trip to cancun courtesy of dady? This is just an opinion it doesnt reflect the race as a whole just observation.