:woot Is it unethical/mean/wrong/<fill in objection here> to use prisoners as a source of cheap labor?

Should we use prisoners for MORE than we already do? What tasks would YOU like to see our prisoner population doing? :grin:

I think prisoners need to do whatever they can to give back to the community they hurt.

They should work.

The prisoners down near where my horse is boarded break and train Mustangs.

I think it is ethical and healthy.

For example: Joe Arpaio, Sheriff of Arizona is making prisoners work in animal rescue facilities.

THAT IS AWESOME!! They actually get the opportunity to remediate and use this time as a therapy to care for somethine. It gives the convict a sense of accomplishment and purpose and hopefully they can direct that positive attitude to when they get out of the slammer.

I want prisoners to do whatever it takes to think "holy crap, I'm NEVER going back to prison!!!!"

If we get work out of them to help the community in the meantime, that's even BETTER!

they should work. my tax dollars (well my hubby's) already house, feed and provide medical care for them so they should at least give something back

Oh the more labor the better. Not only does it give back to the community in which they wronged, it gives them training and experience opportunities to use for paying jobs if anf when they get out of prison.

It also helps to pay for their keep.

And as someone mentioned Sheriff Joe, I just LOVE his prison and his ideas. Every prison should be run as his is.

I totally agree with that sheriff in Arizona. Making the prisoners work is a win/win situation.

The prisoner gets to exercise and give back to the community. Not allowing them 23 hours per day to sit in their cell and think up shit to do to "get back at those that he loathes" (usually the people he hurt who helped put him in jail).

Gives the community free/cheap labor. I think they should clean out sewers, rebuild roads, work at landfills to sort/seperate recycleables, work for animal control...things that don't really put them up close and personal with the general public.

I want prisoners to do whatever it takes to think "holy crap, I'm NEVER going back to prison!!!!"

If we get work out of them to help the community in the meantime, that's even BETTER!

:agree but I'm one of those really odd people that thinks prison shouldn't have cable tv or internet connecions either.

:agree but I'm one of those really odd people that thinks prison shouldn't have cable tv or internet connecions either.

same here. prison should be minimal, it should be uncomfortable.

Prison should be bad. Not cruel and inhumane, but definitely bad. Or at the very least, prison should be worse than what they'd have outside of prison; there should be an incentive to make them want to leave, to do what's required to get out.

Yes, they should be gainfully employed. Prison Industries are a good thing.

While I think its reasonable to have offenders pay the community back, community service in the community will pose as a threat. Can you imagine felons working on the road in front of your house and/or armed guards watching them? I think any work they do should be within the confines of their prison.

While I think its reasonable to have offenders pay the community back, community service in the community will pose as a threat. Can you imagine felons working on the road in front of your house and/or armed guards watching them? I think any work they do should be within the confines of their prison.

most prisons don't allow off site work they offer customer service via phone or email, making products on site and the like

Ahhh gotcha!

I absolutely loved the Sheriff from AZ. I think prison labor is a brilliant idea, for both inmates and the community. I feel that it is a good way to help the inmate prepare for their hopefully eventual transition back into the real world. The idea of having them do community service and running projects like the animal shelter help the community too, and expecially with the economy where it is, it seems responsible to use the cheaper labor, like running the shleter and paying the inmates out of the adoption fees, instead of using it for profit an dhaving to pay them on top of it. I thik it is a good idea and dont feel that the treatment of these inmates was at all unethical. I especially like the Sheriffs reasoning of our our soldiers are enduring the same kind of heat in full gear AND didnt do anything illegal to get there. But maybe that is because I am a spouse?

most prisons don't allow off site work they offer customer service via phone or email, making products on site and the like


And with the Sheriff in AZ, he did the CHain Gangs, that kept them all togetherr so they couldnt just book it, expecially becasue it is alot harder to convince 20 men to all run, as opposed to just being 2 or 3 of them. Also, Im sure there were a couple of escorts with them incase they got rowdy

And with the Sheriff in AZ, he did the CHain Gangs, that kept them all togetherr so they couldnt just book it, expecially becasue it is alot harder to convince 20 men to all run, as opposed to just being 2 or 3 of them. Also, Im sure there were a couple of escorts with them incase they got rowdy

yep. i know in texas the prison down the road farmed/raised pigs/cattle for slaughter. death row inmates and all

While I think its reasonable to have offenders pay the community back, community service in the community will pose as a threat. Can you imagine felons working on the road in front of your house and/or armed guards watching them? I think any work they do should be within the confines of their prison.

Most of the crews you see doing work off of prison grounds (ie road clean-up, landscaping work, etc) are non-violent offenders from minimum security facilities. This is not always the case, but even when violent offenders or those of higher security levels are off-site of the actual prison they are offenders who have "earned" that right by their behavoiur while in prison showing them to be trustworthy enough to be given the chance to participate in those programs.
Our community benefits incredibly from the work done by the "residents" of our correctional facility. It is a minimum security women's facility and they are ALWAYS working. They take two busloads out every morning to a remote location they are working on right now for the state, they maintain the "park" that the prison, our office, the veteran's cemetary and the state hospital is located on, they do a lot of roadside work within the community as a whole, they maintain all the county and local law enforcement vehicles (general maintenance, cleaning, washing, etc) as well as our (meaning my work) Head Start buses. This is the same for other communities able to benefit from prison labor. The cost savings to local, county and state level agencies can be an incredible boost to strained budgets. This, in turn, is a benefit that is enjoyed by the entire community.
Honestly, the prisoners that work on the crews here WANT to work. They LIKE being outside and doing something productive vs. being stuck in a cell or at the least, inside all the time.

I am completely for making prisoners work. Why should things be comfortable or easy for them when they did something wrong to land them in prison?!?!

Prison should be bad. Not cruel and inhumane, but definitely bad. Or at the very least, prison should be worse than what they'd have outside of prison; there should be an incentive to make them want to leave, to do what's required to get out.

Yes, they should be gainfully employed. Prison Industries are a good thing.

To the bolded unfortunately for the majority that are in prison, even what Sheriff Joe provides is better then what most have on the outside.

To the bolded unfortunately for the majority that are in prison, even what Sheriff Joe provides is better then what most have on the outside.

:agree a Criminal Justice professor told me that most of the prisoners once they get out try to get back because it is so much better on the inside

:agree a Criminal Justice professor told me that most of the prisoners once they get out try to get back because it is so much better on the inside

THis is SO (sadly) true. The prison crew that work on the grounds where we are located have minimal, if ANY, direct supervision. The ones that leave our grounds are escorted but the grounds themselves are HUGE acres and acres) and the crews tasked with that upkeep are left to work on their own. We have often talked about the fact that none of them ever leave (they could do so VERY easily - the compound is not fenced at all and they roam freely while working often going hours without contact from prison staff). The fact of the matter is, they don't WANT to leave because - as pointed out - their life in prison is better than what they have/had outside.

When my uncle was in prison he was paid an hourly wage (granted it was only 35 cents and hour back in the late 80's). It was the only way prisoners had to purchase anything extra they wanted like gum, cigs, candy, paper, pens the list goes on. Stuff that gave them the motivation to want to work. Always seemed weird to me that instead of working to "do their time" they might just be working to get their next nicotine or sugar fix :dunno

Anyway, I am all for prison labor so long as they are doing useful jobs and not just busting rocks. As long as they are put to work, it might as well be useful work to better the community and so forth.

same here. prison should be minimal, it should be uncomfortable.

I totally agree with the sentiment that prison should be uncomfortable. I'm just thinking that if I were in prison, the thought of getting shanked or made to be someone's man bitch would make the experience seriously uncomfortable to begin with. I don't think getting to watch Judge Judy in the common room would make me feel any better. :lol

I feel that they should work! They can do just about any job, this will help the community as well as keep them busy instead of having them sit around in their cells thinking of ways to hurt the guards.

I also feel that there should be more educational/vocational opportunities so that hopefully when they get out of prison they can have a better shot at being a productive member of society.

I feel that they should work! They can do just about any job, this will help the community as well as keep them busy instead of having them sit around in their cells thinking of ways to hurt the guards.

I also feel that there should be more educational/vocational opportunities so that hopefully when they get out of prison they can have a better shot at being a productive member of society.

:yes
There needs to be rehabilitation if we expect them to be able to reassimilate into society. It is hard enough to get a job with a criminal record - let alone a criminal record AND no job skills. Providing none of that is counterproductive.

:yes
There needs to be rehabilitation if we expect them to be able to reassimilate into society. It is hard enough to get a job with a criminal record - let alone a criminal record AND no job skills. Providing none of that is counterproductive.

Yes, let's please teach them how to run a library or order supplies or work on a road crew...... not just buff them up in the weight room please, so they come out of there as the Unskilled Incredible Hulk, with a bad attitude.

I saw a documentary about this program, prisoners help train dogs for disable people.
http://www.coyotecommunications.com/dogs/prisondogs.html

I thought it was great!

They should work. I watched some show on Animal Planet recently about prisoners helping train guide dogs for the blind! I thought that was great and it gives the prisoners job experience when they do get released. These were low risk prisoners, too because they would go to malls and other public places, with a guard of course, so the dogs would be exposed to any and every type of situation.

I am all for using prisoners for state mandated labor. It saves money and I think is better overall for the prisoners. And I also agree with Eelo and others that say prison should be more uncomfortable than it is. It's not vacation, prisoners are there for a reason.

What about the jobs that they are taking away from people who need to feed themselves and their families.
People think that working is hard. The fact is that for most prisoners, work is a privilege. What is worse is having to lay in your bed or in your cell all day doing nothing, with nothing to look forward to. Having to think about what you did and what your future is going to be like is a whole lot worse.

What about the jobs that they are taking away from people who need to feed themselves and their families.
People think that working is hard. The fact is that for most prisoners, work is a privilege. What is worse is having to lay in your bed or in your cell all day doing nothing, with nothing to look forward to. Having to think about what you did and what your future is going to be like is a whole lot worse.

Very good point. They can get cheap labor out of prisoners instead of paying a fair wage to someone not a prisoner.

I don't think anyone is employed to pick up trash on freeways, are they? :puzz

I think everyone who lives off government money should work for it, our spouses certainly do! Why should prisoners have it easier than them?

Personally, I'm not 100% sure of all the jobs done by prisoners now, but I do know my daddy made license plates back in the 70's and he always said his looked the best:lol

totally support prison labor. for whatever reason, i like to watch the DOC block on msnbc (i think). the show is taped in prisons. in one, there was a woman serving a life sentence for murder & her job was as an operator on the state's travel info line. whatever they can do laborwise for the state is a good thing.

We have inmates fighting fires: http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2008/jul/10/female-inmates-do-their-time-on-california-fire/ (I think that's wonderful, btw! Great way to open up opportunities after their time has been served!)

This is an interesting article, and kind of scary, but someone doesn't have to be in prison to be a slimeball and steal your identity either http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/254140/prison_work_just_how_much_do_inmates.html?cat=47


This is also interesting, from a reputable source (http://www.legalzoom.com/legal-articles/prisoners-rights-dos-donts.html)
Working in prison

Currently, 80,000 members of the prison population perform jobs for the commercial sector. While work associated with prison maintenance and daily operations has often been a requirement of inmates, recently the private sector has become more and more reliant on prison labor, often paying inmates only a fraction of the wages hired workers receive. And unlike workers on the "outside," imprisoned laborers have little to no recourse to file grievances for unsafe or unsanitary working conditions.

Thirty-six states now have laws permitting commercial enterprises to use prisoners for labor. Inmates perform jobs ranging from telemarketing for phone companies to processing reservations for major airlines. Many prisons house manufacturing warehouses where inmates assemble products from clothing to cars. Auto-manufacturers reportedly pay prisoners as little as $2 an hour, whereas a union worker would be paid upwards of $20 an hour to complete the same task. Some inmates are paid hourly wages as low as 21 cents.

American voters are conflicted about the issue of prison labor. On the one hand, they have expressed their opinion at the ballot-box that prison sentences should not be idly-served; but on the other, voters do not want prison-labor to take jobs out of the private sector. In 1994, Oregon voters overwhelmingly approved a law requiring prisoners to work 40 hours every week, a move that greatly upset the local unions and has since been blamed for loss of jobs.

On the other hand, prisoners who are not allowed to work and made to serve their sentence in almost-total confinement have alleged cruel and unusual punishment. The issue of forcing prisoners to work presents something of a catch-22.

Wonder why we have one of the highest crime rates in the world? Look at how we treat our prisoners. They get TV, great food, schooling, etc. I am in South Korea right now and you would just die if you saw the holding cells they have here. No one wants to go to prison here, they get nothing. I see nothing wrong with prisoners working why doing there time. I think its great to have them give back to what they took from. I just believe harsher punishment in the prison system.

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While I think its reasonable to have offenders pay the community back, community service in the community will pose as a threat. Can you imagine felons working on the road in front of your house and/or armed guards watching them? I think any work they do should be within the confines of their prison.

I see "chain gangs" around here all the time (they don't actually wear chains, but they are supervised by armed guards)..... the work isn't required, it's voluntary... and a privilege. They actually do make a little bit of money (20 cents an hour or something)... and it gets them out of prison for a little while. It's a great program, I'm totally in favor of it. :tu

And with the Sheriff in AZ, he did the CHain Gangs, that kept them all togetherr so they couldnt just book it, expecially becasue it is alot harder to convince 20 men to all run, as opposed to just being 2 or 3 of them. Also, Im sure there were a couple of escorts with them incase they got rowdy

:teehee I haven't actually seen prisoners chained together. But they do wear those black and white striped suits :D

:agree a Criminal Justice professor told me that most of the prisoners once they get out try to get back because it is so much better on the inside

:yes this is mostly true about people who have been locked up for YEARS. Prison life is all they know.... it's where they're comfortable.... so when they're finally released, they don't know how to function.... and often purposely get caught doing something stupid so they can go back. :yes Reminds me a lot of that movie "Shawshank Redemption" :sadeyes

Yes, let's please teach them how to run a library or order supplies or work on a road crew...... not just buff them up in the weight room please, so they come out of there as the Unskilled Incredible Hulk, with a bad attitude.

I totally agree with you. Having prisoners work is a win-win situation, IMO.

I saw a documentary about this program, prisoners help train dogs for disable people.
http://www.coyotecommunications.com/dogs/prisondogs.html

I thought it was great!

I've heard about similar programs..... I think it's great. Working with animals is extremely therapeutic.... and it gives even the toughest guy something to care about and nurture.... and it teaches them what it means to be responsible. Not to mention, they get to experience feeling loved by those animals.... which I'm sure is probably a new experience for a few of them. :yes

What about the jobs that they are taking away from people who need to feed themselves and their families.
People think that working is hard. The fact is that for most prisoners, work is a privilege. What is worse is having to lay in your bed or in your cell all day doing nothing, with nothing to look forward to. Having to think about what you did and what your future is going to be like is a whole lot worse.

I don't think they're really taking jobs away. Most of the departments that they're "taking over" are seriously underfunded anyway.... plus, might as well use 'mostly free' labor since our taxes are paying for their living costs :shrug

[QUOTE=Kelnbub;2721240]Wonder why we have one of the highest crime rates in the world? Look at how we treat our prisoners. They get TV, great food, schooling, etc. I am in South Korea right now and you would just die if you saw the holding cells they have here. No one wants to go to prison here, they get nothing. I see nothing wrong with prisoners working why doing there time. I think its great to have them give back to what they took from. I just believe harsher punishment in the prison system. [QUOTE]

Yeah, our prisoners have a pretty nice set-up here in the states. :no It's pretty ridiculous, imo.

OP

Of course it's ethical -what is INethical is whatever numbnuts reason they're in there for - whatever they did wrong (minuse the very few who were wrongly convicted, yeah)

If they just WORKED and did their duties like everyone else and didn't shirk their family/human responsibilities like everyone else then they probably wouldn't be there to complain about it.

With over a million people in prison I don't see the "need" for cheap, illegal imigrant labor...I think they should consider employing convicts for ALL of those needs :yes Indeed I freaking do!

they should work. my tax dollars (well my hubby's) already house, feed and provide medical care for them so they should at least give something back

:tu It shouldn't be a meal ticket and vacation for them either. It should make them never want to go back!!!

What about the jobs that they are taking away from people who need to feed themselves and their families.
People think that working is hard. The fact is that for most prisoners, work is a privilege. What is worse is having to lay in your bed or in your cell all day doing nothing, with nothing to look forward to. Having to think about what you did and what your future is going to be like is a whole lot worse.

What your suggesting is a recipie for disaster. IMO no tv etc. But working washes two hands IMO. It gives back to the community in my opinion but it also does wonders for the morale of the prisioner. Not only are they learning responsibility. But they are also being given an opportunity that alot have never been afforded before. Work. Most prisoners have AWFUL backgrounds. Being shown that they can indeed be employed indeed give something back gives a sense of accomplishment.
I'd be interesting in seeing the stats on repeat offenders who did work compared to repeat offenders who did not.
Just b/c they are in jail does not make them any less human.

Yeah - if they work then they can NO LONGER use the stupid excuse of "but we don't know anything else" (drug dealing, theft, etc)

I, though, think it a fault and negative side that after you'er OUT you're still a bit screwed. I feel that if they "did the crime and time" then their sentence should end when they're released. (depending on the severity, of course - murder is different than theft)

If they have TRULY made an effort to change then they should have some type of help in finding work, at least. It does NO GOOD to imprison them and train them only for them to have NO PLACE that will hire them because of their negative past - without considering the possitive future and changes they would be willing to make.

Basically, once they're out society and the law should be more willing to accept them as an active member and let them actually find employment and a place to live.

If more prisoners WERE able to find a job/home after getting out they'd be less likely to fall back into crime and more likely to move on adn never go back.

Punishment and rehabilitation - isn't that the goal of prisons?

I think whatever jobs the state needs them to do that does not put the publics safety at risk. Many people in prison don't have many 'job' skills. This is a good way to give them some skills so when they do get out of prison, they may be able to turn their lives around and get a job.

Punishment and rehabilitation - isn't that the goal of prisons?

I think whatever jobs the state needs them to do that does not put the publics safety at risk. Many people in prison don't have many 'job' skills. This is a good way to give them some skills so when they do get out of prison, they may be able to turn their lives around and get a job.

Exactly!!

Exactly!!

x2!

People can change - if they're given the proper means.

Most prisoners work jobs that are lacking help. Like firefighting the forest or cleaning highways. Back home one of our towns was lost in snow. We had to send out inmates to help dig people out of their houses. Where I come from inmates do those kind of jobs. They aren't taking jobs away from civilians.

What your suggesting is a recipie for disaster. IMO no tv etc. But working washes two hands IMO. It gives back to the community in my opinion but it also does wonders for the morale of the prisioner. Not only are they learning responsibility. But they are also being given an opportunity that alot have never been afforded before. Work. Most prisoners have AWFUL backgrounds. Being shown that they can indeed be employed indeed give something back gives a sense of accomplishment.
I'd be interesting in seeing the stats on repeat offenders who did work compared to repeat offenders who did not.
Just b/c they are in jail does not make them any less human.

I don't think he said it makes them less human I know I did not. He is correct you have to be a prisoner in good standing in order to work, especially to work outside of the prison. If you get in trouble that right (or rather privilege) gets taken away.

I agree they should work to better the community but I also feel that sometimes they are given jobs that COULD go to non-prisoners if the state were to pay a fair wage for the work.

Most prisoners work jobs that are lacking help. Like firefighting the forest or cleaning highways. Back home one of our towns was lost in snow. We had to send out inmates to help dig people out of their houses. Where I come from inmates do those kind of jobs. They aren't taking jobs away from civilians.

Those are all jobs some civilians that are needing work would be willing to do. In some cases civilians already DO at least one of those jobs.

I think prisoners need to do whatever they can to give back to the community they hurt.

:agree

I don't think he said it makes them less human I know I did not. He is correct you have to be a prisoner in good standing in order to work, especially to work outside of the prison. If you get in trouble that right (or rather privilege) gets taken away.

I agree they should work to better the community but I also feel that sometimes they are given jobs that COULD go to non-prisoners if the state were to pay a fair wage for the work.

I did not mean to imply that he did. I was making a statement on my own accord abou tit.

What your suggesting is a recipie for disaster. IMO no tv etc. But working washes two hands IMO. It gives back to the community in my opinion but it also does wonders for the morale of the prisioner. Not only are they learning responsibility. But they are also being given an opportunity that alot have never been afforded before. Work. Most prisoners have AWFUL backgrounds. Being shown that they can indeed be employed indeed give something back gives a sense of accomplishment.
I'd be interesting in seeing the stats on repeat offenders who did work compared to repeat offenders who did not.
Just b/c they are in jail does not make them any less human.

Yeah - if they work then they can NO LONGER use the stupid excuse of "but we don't know anything else" (drug dealing, theft, etc)

I, though, think it a fault and negative side that after you'er OUT you're still a bit screwed. I feel that if they "did the crime and time" then their sentence should end when they're released. (depending on the severity, of course - murder is different than theft)

If they have TRULY made an effort to change then they should have some type of help in finding work, at least. It does NO GOOD to imprison them and train them only for them to have NO PLACE that will hire them because of their negative past - without considering the possitive future and changes they would be willing to make.

Basically, once they're out society and the law should be more willing to accept them as an active member and let them actually find employment and a place to live.

If more prisoners WERE able to find a job/home after getting out they'd be less likely to fall back into crime and more likely to move on adn never go back.

Punishment and rehabilitation - isn't that the goal of prisons?

I think whatever jobs the state needs them to do that does not put the publics safety at risk. Many people in prison don't have many 'job' skills. This is a good way to give them some skills so when they do get out of prison, they may be able to turn their lives around and get a job.


Agree with all the above!

I don't think he said it makes them less human I know I did not. He is correct you have to be a prisoner in good standing in order to work, especially to work outside of the prison. If you get in trouble that right (or rather privilege) gets taken away.

I agree they should work to better the community but I also feel that sometimes they are given jobs that COULD go to non-prisoners if the state were to pay a fair wage for the work.

I'd feel pretty good if we could take some of these jobs that are going off-shore and run them out of prisons, but make them a high-reaching goal that prisoners can strive for. There would also need to be non-prisoner staff within the industry/corporation, so that would retain some of the civilian jobs too.

I'd feel pretty good if we could take some of these jobs that are going off-shore and run them out of prisons, but make them a high-reaching goal that prisoners can strive for. There would also need to be non-prisoner staff within the industry/corporation, so that would retain some of the civilian jobs too.

oh I so totally agree!!

I want prisoners to do whatever it takes to think "holy crap, I'm NEVER going back to prison!!!!"

If we get work out of them to help the community in the meantime, that's even BETTER!

Ask anyone who has ever been to Parchman... they NEVER want to go back! They have to pick cotton in the hot ass sun and they don't get a/c.