I thought this might be good for debate.
(Spin off of "Military shooting pigs for training purposes" thread)

Ethical?
Is it useful in any way?
Would you try to get your child out of having to do this?
Did you avoid doing this?
If your child didn't want to would you support their decision not to?


_____ ______ ______ _______

I don't think it's ethical nor do I see how it can possibly be benificial.
I absolutely avoided this - in fact, I just stopped going to class and happily sat in detention and did worksheets instead.
I would support my kids if they didn't want to do this and if they REALLY didn't want to I'd fully support and help them get out of this "requirement".

I thought this might be good for debate.
(Spin off of "Military shooting pigs for training purposes" thread)

Ethical?
Is it useful in any way?
Would you try to get your child out of having to do this?
Did you avoid doing this?
If your child didn't want to would you support their decision not to?


_____ ______ ______ _______

I don't think it's ethical nor do I see how it can possibly be benificial.
I absolutely avoided this - in fact, I just stopped going to class and happily sat in detention and did worksheets instead.
I would support my kids if they didn't want to do this and if they REALLY didn't want to I'd fully support and help them get out of this "requirement".

I completely agree. I happily sat my butt in after school detention for not participating and cutting open a frog, a rat, and a pig uterus. I know that these animals were bred for this purpose but I myself didnt feel the need to do it.

The fetal pigs that we dissected were stillborn and preserved - not killed for educational purposes..

Previously in that same biology class we had dissected nightcrawlers (BIG worms). No one seems to be fighting the big fight for them......"save the worms" & whatnot.

I refused to cut up a rat in bio last week and my prof told me I'd lose points if I didn't do it.

Even if I did do it I wouldn't have learned a damn thing because I'd have been way to preoccupied trying not to puke.

In high school I think dissecting animals is even more pointless because especially the boys just want to play around with guts. Killing an animal for a 'lesson' where kids don't give a crap seems wrong to me.

I think dissection can be very beneficial. EVEN for High school students. Remembering my own biology class, students found the insides of worms fish and frogs FASCINATING. a couple people are actually going into science/medical majors because of what they learned from that class.

I personally couldn't dissect the frog because of my own emotional attachment to frogs... but the worms were really cool... I never would have guessed there was so much STUFF in there.

Understanding anatomy and how everything works together is very important... learning about a simple animal opens the doors to learn about HUMANS and knowing about your OWN body is a great thing. Not enough people understand how their bodies work, and waste lots of money every year over nothing when they go to the doctors.

I don't think it needs to be as widespread as it is, no. Those students who take an interest in science or medicine as future career paths should be the ones doing this and the other students can observe closely.

Every effort needs to be made to ensure the students in our schools have access to accurate and current resources, and disection is very useful for those who like I said, plan to persue career paths related to biology. It would be doing those students and our educational future a disservice to discontinue disections altogether, but I also do not see the reasoning behind forcing every 10th grade child to do it, either.

But wouldn't it make more sense for it to be an elective and a choice?

It seems widespread and common for those of us who didn't want anything to do with it and found it to be nauseating to be punished because of something that we, really, just couldn't stomach.

If someone's ok with it - fine, great.
But if someone's not ok with ti that should be fine, too...and it's not, evidently.

I think dissection can be very beneficial. EVEN for High school students. Remembering my own biology class, students found the insides of worms fish and frogs FASCINATING. a couple people are actually going into science/medical majors because of what they learned from that class.

I personally couldn't dissect the frog because of my own emotional attachment to frogs... but the worms were really cool... I never would have guessed there was so much STUFF in there.

Understanding anatomy and how everything works together is very important... learning about a simple animal opens the doors to learn about HUMANS and knowing about your OWN body is a great thing. Not enough people understand how their bodies work, and waste lots of money every year over nothing when they go to the doctors.


i agree with everything she said:D
also for me personally it is extremely beneficial and i know it will get alot worse then worms since one of my focuses is on forensics:D

I loved dissection labs! Let's see, we did...... roundworms (oh no! save the worms!), these absolutely ginormous grasshoppers, frogs, squid, and ultimately a fetal pig. My gosh, there was SOOOOOO much to learn, and it was great! No textbook could have prepared me for the organ placement, the depth, the interworkings of the organs.... it was great and I really enjoyed it.

On the other hand, I agree that those who elect NOT to dissect should have the opportunity to do something comparable that doesn't involve dissection, and if my children chose to go that route, I would support them. However, I'd make DAMN sure their 'alternative project' was just as deep and meaningful.

I have no problem with the dissection of animals. I am studying to be a wildlife biologist though, so I suppose I am a little biased.

R U kidding me??!!! we couldn't WAIT for dissection in biology! it was awesome....I still remember those parts.....I don't see a thing wrong with learning about organs and tissues. I remember so much more from the hands on learning than stupid textbooks.

I loved dissection labs! Let's see, we did...... roundworms (oh no! save the worms!), these absolutely ginormous grasshoppers, frogs, squid, and ultimately a fetal pig. My gosh, there was SOOOOOO much to learn, and it was great! No textbook could have prepared me for the organ placement, the depth, the interworkings of the organs.... it was great and I really enjoyed it.

On the other hand, I agree that those who elect NOT to dissect should have the opportunity to do something comparable that doesn't involve dissection, and if my children chose to go that route, I would support them. However, I'd make DAMN sure their 'alternative project' was just as deep and meaningful.

Yeah, we were all shown diagrams and whatnot for every animal we dissected BEFORE we dissected it.... I had NO idea what I was looking at until I was actually LOOKING at it.
We were all allowed to abstain from dissection although our teacher (who was AMAZING) strongly urged us not to. She knew that we couldn't fully understand what we were looking at or be prepared for the test. She was right, I abstained from the frogs (as I said) and I never did understand the anatomy.

My older three got to do cow's eyes. The two older ones loved it, but #3 chose not to participate. Her alternate project (my suggestion) was to make a scale model of the eye; she did it as a jello concoction.

My older three got to do cow's eyes. The two older ones loved it, but #3 chose not to participate. Her alternate project (my suggestion) was to make a scale model of the eye; she did it as a jello concoction.

That is really cool! (both the eye AND the alternate project :D)

I took an Advanced/Honors Biology class and we dissected frogs and starfish. I elected not to dissect the frog, along with 1-2 others, but did do the starfish. Our teacher didn't try and force us to do it and we didn't lose any points for not participating. I never thought I'd need it so I didn't see a point in doing it at the time.

Today, though, we had a euthanasia at work (I'm a Vet Assistant) and the owners gave us permission to do a necropsy as they didn't want the remains or the ashes back. So today I got to watch a partial necropsy. I got to see a kidney, feel a heart, feel lung tissue (which was actually kinda squishy and cool), and then do my very first sutures to close the dog back up. It was really informative and I'm glad I got to do it. It helps a lot to be able to visualize the organ and it's placement in the body by seeing it first-hand.

I see nothing unethical about dissection

I'm not sure if I'm for it or against it. I'm sort-of in the middle? ... I love learning about science.. how things are created and there make up.....

In biology- we did a worm, crawfish, mussle (clam thing) ... and then a frog.
What made me angry tho' is we were put into groups of 2 or 3. And everytime, I'm the one who had to position, cut open and do most of the work, because the other person/persons would either be grossed out, or talking to someone else.

This might be TMI.... but the frog I was doing, when I cut him open.... there was nothing much in him. Except tons of yellow fat bodies. There was a part where we had to open his mouth, prepping him to go up to the teach to point out the lung, heart and ect. Well ...pffffft mine couldn't be found. Well like I was saying when I opened his mouth, somehow his heart pouch and a few other small organs were stuck in his throat/mouth. The teacher didn't believe me at first...... untill I showed him a second time. He offered me an A because our frog was a total wash out. (Frog was also pregnant). So I had to do my point out the organs part with somebody elses frog.

Some of the people in the class took the learning experience very well. They were really into it. As was I. Then there was the handful who just played around, laughing, joking and trying to throw those nasty yellow fat bodies in the girls hair.....

I remember doing it all like I did it just yesterday. Would I do it again? Yes. I wouldn't take it back. I didn't like the fact we had to do it. But I loved the learning aspect of it all.

I think dissection can be very beneficial. EVEN for High school students. Remembering my own biology class, students found the insides of worms fish and frogs FASCINATING. a couple people are actually going into science/medical majors because of what they learned from that class.

I personally couldn't dissect the frog because of my own emotional attachment to frogs... but the worms were really cool... I never would have guessed there was so much STUFF in there.

Understanding anatomy and how everything works together is very important... learning about a simple animal opens the doors to learn about HUMANS and knowing about your OWN body is a great thing. Not enough people understand how their bodies work, and waste lots of money every year over nothing when they go to the doctors.

I totally agree with this.

At med school our anatomy classes were all virtual. Honestly, I didn't learn or understand half as much as I did whilst doing a pathology rotation and acutally seeing how the organs fit together for myself.

I don't think it needs to be as widespread as it is, no. Those students who take an interest in science or medicine as future career paths should be the ones doing this and the other students can observe closely.

Every effort needs to be made to ensure the students in our schools have access to accurate and current resources, and dissection is very useful for those who like I said, plan to persue career paths related to biology. It would be doing those students and our educational future a disservice to discontinue dissections altogether, but I also do not see the reasoning behind forcing every 10th grade child to do it, either.

:yes

I understand that there are those who don't want to do it, and that is fine. There should be alternate assignments, and no one should be forced... however, I personally as a medical and general science geek who is fascinated by anatomy... I was always the first one to reach for a scalpel and go at it.

That said, there are some AMAZING computer dissection programs these days. However, nothing beats the real thing. I would be upset if it were taken away completely, but, as Loretta said... not everyone needs to do it, if for no other reason than not everyone will feel the same about it, and appreciate it in the same way.... and it doesn't have quite the same overarching importance as math and English. :lol

ETA: I would support my kid in their choice to NOT dissect something, however, I really can't see any kid of mine ever not being so interested in "how something works" that they can't wait to pick it to pieces... whether it be a radio, or a frog. :lol

I am a total nerd when it comes to how things work but I could not stomach the idea of dissecting a fetal pig (our were stillborns like laurenmargaux's) in high school biology. My mom is a PhD bio-chemist so you can guess she didn't like the idea of me avoiding the assignment but when I had nightmares for days on end she relented and helped me come up with an alternate project & then pretty much forced my teacher to let me do it (the rule was an automatic F on the assignment if you didn't participate and it was like 20% of the grade!). I don't know why it freaked me out so much but if my child feels the same way I will support them 100%.

I did fetal pigs and frogs in high school. At the time I didn't think it was a big deal, but looking back I am disappointed that I didn't think more about it before I just went along. My teacher even gave extra credit to the people in the class who completely unraveled all of the pig intestines and jump roped with them in class. :puke

I plan on raising my children to be respectful to all living things and to understand that death is a big deal and life should never be taken unless it is absolutely necessary. If their science classes do dissection and they do not want to participate, I will fully support that and fight for them if I have to.

I do not take issue w/ dissection for educational purposes and have dissect4ed various animals in various science classes.

As for my kids they are allowed to think for themselves and if they are against animal dissection in classroom labs then by all means I will support that choice. There are other options besides doing the actual dissection now. If the school would not offer them then I would be ok with my child failing that project because it is important to allow children to stand up for their moral/ethical beliefs.

I myself have dissected, an earthworm, frog, fetal pig, clam, squid, shark, & a sheep heart. I got the most out of the marine animals in high school because I love marine biology, then the sheep heart in college because I was more mature and very interested in learning about how the heart functions.

Trina your teacher was sick, that is wrong. Every teacher I have ever had in a class where we dissected their was NO monkey business allowed. We had to respect the animal we were dissecting (does that seem weird?). WOW that just floors me I swear some teachers just don't use their noggin. :(

I did fetal pigs and frogs in high school. At the time I didn't think it was a big deal, but looking back I am disappointed that I didn't think more about it before I just went along. My teacher even gave extra credit to the people in the class who completely unraveled all of the pig intestines and jump roped with them in class. :puke

I plan on raising my children to be respectful to all living things and to understand that death is a big deal and life should never be taken unless it is absolutely necessary. If their science classes do dissection and they do not want to participate, I will fully support that and fight for them if I have to.

Seriously?!
That is wrong. I am for dissections for class... but to make a joke of it? That isn't cool in my book

When I was doing pre-med... it only seemed logical to use animals. :shrug

But I am not cut out for be a doctor... incase anyone wondered how that 2 years of my college life ended up.

:giggle

When I took bio in high school, the teacher gave us the choice to opt out of the dissection without penalty. The kids that didn't want to do it just sat in the library on lab days. Personally, I loved dissecting because I thought it was interesting. I sat in the back of my bio class and spent a lot of time goofing off but on lab days I was fully focused. For the kids that can handle it, it gets them more involved and interested in the class.

i took biology & anatomy & physiology in hs, & while i dint like disecting the frog(b/c i hate them,lol) other things i didnt mind as much, in anatomy we did the fetal pig & i found it very beneficial, as they as set up close to the way that we are. i got to see all the organs & How they're set up & everything. it's one thing to see pics of all this & another to see it right in front of you. i'm in massage therapy school now & had to do anatomy & physiology again, & i wish we could have done some disecting in these classes. & it's kinda funny cuz @ first i too refused to do it, but after gettin in there & seein everything, i found it interesting & helpful to my learning.

We had to disect things in school from 7th grade on. I never participated because it goes against my personal beliefs. For the people like me, we just did the same thing on a computer simulation. I learned the same, aced the tests, and didn't compromise my values. If my kids feel the same, I'll fully support their right not to take part.

i got my associates degree in biology, for that i think it was beneficial. but in highschool, i didn't think it was really needed. most of the girls were all like eeeeeew i'm not touching that, and the guys just wanted to stab at it. there were a few honors classes in highschool, that was unerstandable to disect, but general bio classes no. even in college, i'm not sure its really needed in a general bio class, since its required for most degrees. so i guess i feel they should save it for the specialized classes.

if my child didn't want to disect an animal, i would back them. i refused to do a cow heart in high school, so i can't really say much. lol

I think dissection is necessary for some professions - but I only think its appropriate if the research is used in research that could possibly save human lives or be otherwise beneficial, etc. I do not think that this is the case in a high school class. I think it sends the wrong message to kids about the value of life.

I would not allow my child to participate because it directly violates our family values and belief system. However, I would not try to stop it or prevent others from doing so if they wished. I think that all of the students should have a choice.