http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13934199/?GT1=8307


WASHINGTON - President Bush cast the first veto of his 5-1/2-year presidency Wednesday, rejecting legislation to ease limits on federal funding for research on stem cells obtained from embryos.

"This bill would support the taking of innocent human life of the hope of finding medical benefits for others. It crosses a moral boundary that our society needs to respect, so I vetoed it," Bush said at a White House event where he was surrounded by 18 families who "adopted" frozen embryos that were not used by other couples, and then used those leftover embryos to have children.

"Each of these children was still adopted while still an embryo and has been blessed with a chance to grow, to grow up in a loving family. These boys and girls are not spare parts," he said.

The veto came a day after the Senate defied Bush and approved the legislation, 63-37, four votes short of the two-thirds margin needed to override. White House officials and Republican congressional leaders claimed it was unlikely that Congress could override the veto.

Bush's support was the strongest in the House, which was expected to take up the veto as early as later Wednesday.

Bush has supported federally funded research on only those stem cell lines created before Aug. 9, 2001, the date of his speech to the nation on the subject.

The president vetoed the measure shortly after it came to his desk. His position was politically popular among conservative Republicans, and it was sure to be an issue in the midterm congressional elections.


There is much more to the article in the link.

What do you think about Stem Cell reserach?

I think that the president is letting his personal and religious beliefs get in the way of making a decision that might be best for the country. I understand that it can get out of control with cloning and all that, but I think more good can come out of it than bad.

I think that the president is letting his personal and religious beliefs get in the way of making a decision that might be best for the country. I understand that it can get out of control with cloning and all that, but I think more good can come out of it than bad.

I agree. I don't think he's looking at the "big picture" and what that research could accomplish.

I think that the president is letting his personal and religious beliefs get in the way of making a decision that might be best for the country. I understand that it can get out of control with cloning and all that, but I think more good can come out of it than bad.

I agree

I think he's scared of opening a can of worms.

I think that the president is letting his personal and religious beliefs get in the way of making a decision that might be best for the country. I understand that it can get out of control with cloning and all that, but I think more good can come out of it than bad.



I couldn't agree more

I think that the president is letting his personal and religious beliefs get in the way of making a decision that might be best for the country. I understand that it can get out of control with cloning and all that, but I think more good can come out of it than bad.

I agree. I'm Catholic & have been taught to be anti-stem cell. But I'm totally all for it. I think we should do anything possible to save lives:yes

The question was...what do you think about stem cell research? My answer is that it's a hugely important issue that warrants indepth research...but tax payers are not the ones that need to be shouldering the burden of funding said research.

I agree. I'm Catholic & have been taught to be anti-stem cell. But I'm totally all for it. I think we should do anything possible to save lives:yes

DH is catholic as well. He was very against stem cell research till Gabe was diagnosed. Gabe and Chris both have a mutation on the W1 gene that puts them at higher risk for this type of cancer. The things stem cell research can do for these kids and many others is undeniable!!! I am going to be doing pretty deep research for the next elections that's for sure!!!!

The question was...what do you think about stem cell research? My answer is that it's a hugely important issue that warrants indepth research...but tax payers are not the ones that need to be shouldering the burden of funding said research.


i am all for shouldering it, if it means kids like Gabe dont have to suffer through what he has!!!

Right but Donna there is no guarantee of anything. I realize this is a VERY personal issue for you and you feel justifiably passionate about the possibilities. The bottom line is, it's research - it's studying to see if the possibilities are actually feasable - but they're not guaranteed - and there are other funding sources out there.


ETA: The issue at hand isn't even funding really - he used morality as the reason for the veto. I can honestly see both sides of the argument, and Donna if Paige were Gabe, I am sure that I'd be vehemently blind to the side that said "your child doesn't deserve it".

The situation is maddening and heartbreaking at the same time.

i am all for shouldering it, if it means kids like Gabe dont have to suffer through what he has!!!

:yes :agree & all of the other diseases it can cure/help!:yes

Right but Donna there is no guarantee of anything. I realize this is a VERY personal issue for you and you feel justifiably passionate about the possibilities. The bottom line is, it's research - it's studying to see if the possibilities are actually feasable - but they're not guaranteed - and there are other funding sources out there.

ah, but the more money that is available the faster the research can be done. the faster that we have answers. we all know that there is not a lot of "private" money going to this, why not jump start it? everything started as research... all the vaccines that we now have started as someone fiddleing around in a lab. dont get me wrong, i believe that there should be strict guidelines for this, but for me, the possiblities that this poses just for Gabe alone far outweighs anything to me!!!

You're absolutely right.

I have a bisas on this because if this works I could walk. I think that if Bush's kids or family members were sick he move hell or high water to find want it took to help them. just how i see it though.

i defintely think we need the research, and i totally think it should be a tax payer burden. To be honest, I dont think i would be able to sleep at night if I was Bush after vetoing that. If one of his family members had juvenile diabetes or certain cancers, etc. as Happygirl said, he wouldnt feel that way. It disgusts me that he is not interested in doing WHATEVER it would take to possibly save that many lives.

This will be my last comment on this, because I've already stated my opinion on the matter and it's not up to me to change anybody's mind. Both sides of the argument are valid...but the primary reason it was veto'd was a moral one. The quote below illiustrates the moral angle behind the presidents' decision to veto the bill. I can see both sides, and I can respect both sides...I'm also glad I'm not a politician.

...at a White House event where he was surrounded by 18 families who "adopted" frozen embryos that were not used by other couples, and then used those leftover embryos to have children.


There are two sides to the coin. What if those babies hadn't been given a chance?? Is THAT right? Well...I guess that's just another debate ;)

I think that the president is letting his personal and religious beliefs get in the way of making a decision that might be best for the country. I understand that it can get out of control with cloning and all that, but I think more good can come out of it than bad.


I TOTALLY AGREE :yes

There are so many big people with BIG bucks to fund it, if the issue were funding. PERSONALLY I don't feel it should be a tax payers burden. But I am also not against it at all. I think it can do a lot of good. When it IS allowed which we all know in time it will be... naturally it was be abbused as all things are, but that how it is.

ugh.. I guess I am kind of torn with this.... Thinking more about it, with stem cell research they could possibly come up with new ways to cure so many things.... so maybe tax payers shouldering it wouldn't be such a bad thing.... It's a tough subject.

My dad and I talk about stem cell reserach a lot due to the fact that my family has dealt with a lot of cancer and diabetes trouble, morally my religious beliefs say no to stem cell research, but my brain says yes with all the possibilities and benefits it could have for SOO many people.. including my family.... funding can be found if someone looks for it... there are plenty of people out there who have it... taxpayers shouldn't HAVE to pay for it, if they are against it, it wouldn't be fair to MAKE them pay for it whether or not it would cure something or not.. that would be wrong to make them pay for it against their desire. There are TONS of things that can be done using stem cell research, but it can also be done without embryos from what my father has told me. You can harvest stem cells in other ways... though embryo stem cells are the best to use... it's a difficult subject and a hard decision... personal interests change opinions as well!

My dad and I talk about stem cell reserach a lot due to the fact that my family has dealt with a lot of cancer and diabetes trouble, morally my religious beliefs say no to stem cell research, but my brain says yes with all the possibilities and benefits it could have for SOO many people.. including my family.... funding can be found if someone looks for it... there are plenty of people out there who have it... taxpayers shouldn't HAVE to pay for it, if they are against it, it wouldn't be fair to MAKE them pay for it whether or not it would cure something or not.. that would be wrong to make them pay for it against their desire. There are TONS of things that can be done using stem cell research, but it can also be done without embryos from what my father has told me. You can harvest stem cells in other ways... though embryo stem cells are the best to use... it's a difficult subject and a hard decision... personal interests change opinions as well!

there is a spin to that as well.... would you deny treatment if it came from stem cell research??? i know many that are against the research, but would jump at a cure even if it came from that research. would it be fair to only offer the treatment to those that supportted it?? no it wouldnt. it would be unethical, so why should only a few pay, but far more would reap the benefits if and when they are there?

with that said, i am going to bow out on this one.... i could go all day with it.

While I totally understand what you are saying Donna we can't require people who are morally against it to pay for it whether or not they would take the cure or not... it's a hard line to cross... ethically it's a battle no matter what is decided on it... the religious and moral complications make it something that everyone has to decide personally... that's all... not trying to step on toes, but I think that would be the politically correct way to go about it... even though i'm sick of "politically correct" in SOO many ways!

I really do not believe this will change much. Private companies DO so much more research than the govt It does stink that the govt wil not fund it though. So many things could be improved...but I can see both sides....torn:(

I don't agree with using embryo's for stem cell research since there are other ways to harvest them. I do believe the research and procedures being used to do this research should be strictly regulated. I've donated the umbylical cords and placentas of all my children for research but I would never find the use of an embryo appropriate no matter what the results may be. My mom has had numerous cancers, I've had cancer and still don't feel that the cure should have anything to do with the possible loss of another human life.

I don't agree with using embryo's for stem cell research since there are other ways to harvest them. I do believe the research and procedures being used to do this research should be strictly regulated. I've donated the umbylical cords and placentas of all my children for research but I would never find the use of an embryo appropriate no matter what the results may be. My mom has had numerous cancers, I've had cancer and still don't feel that the cure should have anything to do with the possible loss of another human life.

That right there is why I am torn with it all. And I myself had dealt with cancer also. More than once.

I don't agree with using embryo's for stem cell research since there are other ways to harvest them. I do believe the research and procedures being used to do this research should be strictly regulated. I've donated the umbylical cords and placentas of all my children for research but I would never find the use of an embryo appropriate no matter what the results may be. My mom has had numerous cancers, I've had cancer and still don't feel that the cure should have anything to do with the possible loss of another human life.


My bosses mother is a nurse that does bone marrow transplants. They are now workting with the stem cells from the umbylical cords that are donated. They are seeing some good things.
I am hoping to donate Eric's umbylical cord blood.

:( :freakout :mumble

My dad has Parkinson's and it kills me that he just voted to not possibly find a cure for it....

I so wish there was a smiley that was giving the bird!!!

That is a hard decision. I am for research from umbilical chords and placenta and such. In fact I think they should just take all of it for research. But I am not ok with embryos being used. That being said I also am not ok with the fact that people made those embryos and may never use them. I understand why Bush vetoed it and I can support that decision. I really do not think it can be passed without a very strict set of rules to go with it.

That is a hard decision. I am for research from umbilical chords and placenta and such. In fact I think they should just take all of it for research. But I am not ok with embryos being used. That being said I also am not ok with the fact that people made those embryos and may never use them. I understand why Bush vetoed it and I can support that decision. I really do not think it can be passed without a very strict set of rules to go with it.

That is how I feel! I don't like the thought of them using embryos but cord blood and placentas I am fine with.

I don't agree with using embryo's for stem cell research since there are other ways to harvest them. I do believe the research and procedures being used to do this research should be strictly regulated. I've donated the umbylical cords and placentas of all my children for research but I would never find the use of an embryo appropriate no matter what the results may be. My mom has had numerous cancers, I've had cancer and still don't feel that the cure should have anything to do with the possible loss of another human life.

I agree with you 100% on this one. I think there are so many other ways to get stem cells, I could not see myself supporting something at the possible loss of another human life. That is just my opinion.

Here's my issue with it.

1. The President has never said research could not be done. We've been down this road before. He's not allowing gov't funding to do the research which I whole heartedly agree with. Remember every year when you do your federal income taxes and complain about the amount of money that they take THIS is the kind of stuff it's going for. If the Fed. Gov't continues to tax US for every thing they want to do we will eventually have NO MONEY for our own personal use and expenses. Think about it. You can only make people pay so much in taxes or they will have NOTHING left of their paychecks.

2. There HAS been research done in this area with embronic stem cells. So far it's produced NOTHING. Why won't the wealthy people privately fund this any longer? Because they know NOTHING is coming of the research that has been done.

3. Research HAS SHOWN great results using adult stem cells and no life has to suffer for that. People have already been healed and cured in some areas from the results of adult stem cell research.

If they want to use my taxpayers money - they can put it into more extensive scientific research of something that is already show results, progress and cures. Why waste time on something that they've already dabbled with that has gotten us nowhere and they know it....so does our President.

That is a hard decision. I am for research from umbilical chords and placenta and such. In fact I think they should just take all of it for research. But I am not ok with embryos being used. That being said I also am not ok with the fact that people made those embryos and may never use them. I understand why Bush vetoed it and I can support that decision. I really do not think it can be passed without a very strict set of rules to go with it.


I agree. Very well said ;)

I don't agree with using embryo's for stem cell research since there are other ways to harvest them. I do believe the research and procedures being used to do this research should be strictly regulated. I've donated the umbylical cords and placentas of all my children for research but I would never find the use of an embryo appropriate no matter what the results may be. My mom has had numerous cancers, I've had cancer and still don't feel that the cure should have anything to do with the possible loss of another human life.


I couldnt agree more. Personally, I've never had cancer or anything to that extent. But many people close to me have, including an Aunt who passed away 3 years ago. With that said, I support Bush's decision 100%. Umbylical cords and placentas are one thing, but I will never agree with the idea of using embryos for research. IN MY OPINION, an embryo is a human life. It makes me sick to think of killing a person, for research.

Again, :myop

So here is a question (which i don't know the answer to). What happens to all the extra embryos that are made and don't get adopted? Where do they go?

So here is a question (which i don't know the answer to). What happens to all the extra embryos that are made and don't get adopted? Where do they go?

the majority are destroyed.

the majority are destroyed.

That is what I suspected - so what is the problem with researching on things that will be garbage anyway? so it's better to throw away a human life rather than use if to help others?

And i do know that adult stem cells do NOT have near the capacity for growth that the embryonic stem cells do.

With cases of Alzhemer's, cancers, and diabetes in my family, it's hard not to be enraged at Bush's actions. I did not like what he said about "spare parts". To me, it sounded like he was saying that we were going to be slicing and dicing babies, which is not the case. He lets his personal feelings influence far too much. I have always felt that we have a 1950's, uber-conservo-pres, in a 2006 liberal world. Besides, things are sacrificed for the greater good all the time. Isn't that why our guys are away?
If he really wanted to help kids, he should not have vetoed the bill so that millions of sick kids might get better.

It must have been a very difficult decision for Bush to make. Personally, I'm for stem cell research, but there is so much research in the field going on all over the world that it may not be necessary for the govt to fund extra projects.