OVERALL, how would you rate military compensation? When you take everything into account... the hours they work, the benefits such as medical and other perks, housing allowances, deployments, the advancement system, etc. When you look at the big picture and everything overall, how do you feel about military compensation?

If there are things that bother you or that you think should be modified, improved, added, taken away, etc., please elaborate :)

I think we are slightly underpaid. I think we deserve a decent payraise and the BAH should be raised. The amount of mortgages and rent are still on the high end, and I think the BAH should be raised to match it. Otherwise, I am pretty satisfied.

I think we are slightly underpaid and this is why.

So far my husband has gotten PAID to go to school and get 25 college credits. We do not pay for any of this training or materials. I know how expensive this would be for us if we had to pay for it ourselves! If he were not in school than we would be underpaid, not grossly underpaid, but pretty damn close. It all equals out to slighty underpaid for us now, but I know it'll pick up in the long run. :D

eta- If you average out the people who don't do their jobs, or do the minimal amount of work with those that bust their ass- it still comes out to slightly underpaid overall. If you do that math! :teehee

It really depends. They have COLA in some areas to compesate the difference but some areas that should have it have none. The compensation when they are gone seems about right but for the hours they work on a regular basis, they are grossly underpaid. Honestly, our politicians need to get paid less and our military men paid more. As of January 1 2005, members of Congress make $162,100.

Why do these people get paid this much?


Executive Branch

President: $400,000; $50,000 expense account; $100,000 nontaxable for travel; $19,000 official entertainment account; free housing
Retired president: $150,000 pension; plus $150,000 to maintain staff
Former first lady: $20,000
Vice president: $208,100; $10,000 expense account; free housing
Presidential Cabinet member (i.e. secretary of defense, attorney general, etc.): $157,000Legislative Branch

Speaker of the House of Representatives: $208,100
Senate president pro tempore: $180,100
Senate and House majority and minority leaders: $180,100
Other senators and representatives: $162,100Judicial Branch

Supreme Court chief justice: $208,100
Supreme Court associate justices: $199,200
Circuit judges: $171,800
District judges: $162,100Compared to a district judge our military members risking their lives are GROSSLY UNDERPAID. I do not compare our "income" to the general public because the military is not part of the general public. They are getting paid by the federal government. So to me, compared to these guys, our men get the shaft.

I think we have really great advantages with the military benefits but with that on top of the hours, I think we are still severely underpaid

Oh, if you count WHERE we live right now- We are GROSSLY underpaid living in SD with NO COLA!!!

I think we are underpaid.. andi just dont know how some larger families do it on one income and we struggle just as much...

I mean yeah we got medical care.. but it stil doens help with living costs these days.

Oh, if you count WHERE we live right now- We are GROSSLY underpaid living in SD with NO COLA!!!


you know what I TOTALLY Agree with you. My friend moved from Hawaii to SD area and said how much of a change it was. Said she is paying about the same prices for things in SD as she did in hawaii.......however in Hawaii we get cola.....

honestly I think we do well, but think overall we are slightly underpaid. I also think Hawaii is a GREAT place to save money. We put away our cola every single month and never even touch it.......so that totally rocks!

I think we are underpaid.. andi just dont know how some larger families do it on one income and we struggle just as much...

I mean yeah we got medical care.. but it stil doens help with living costs these days.

We are a family of 5 on a single income AND my husband payes child support to his ex each month... It's VERY hard and we barely make it check to check... sometimes we don't. Here is Va the COL is high and we don't get any COLA here. We recieve the Newport News BAH rate which is less then Norfolk also.. that makes it suck just that much more.

Underpaid in every way possible! It pisses me off when civilian friends say, "but he gets all that extra BAH and stuff!"

Yea, and if he didn't we would be below the poverty line!!!!!!!!!

Underpaid in every way possible! It pisses me off when civilian friends say, "but he gets all that extra BAH and stuff!"

Yea, and if he didn't we would be below the poverty line!!!!!!!!!

My husband is at work 100+ hours a week at his command... if he was a civilian.. that would be a shit ton a over-time!

I think that if people think they are so drastically underpaid, they should do what anyone else would do unsatisfied with their job, find a new one. Sign a contract - no one held a gun to anyone's head and made them sign on the bottom line now did they?
I don't know anyone who says "yeah, I make plenty of money, I am not underpaid for what I do, raise - I don't need a raise I make enough as it is, thanks" ....
Is the military underpaid? Yeah, but so am I when I am working as an engineer ONLY making a little over $200k per year - I should make more than that for what I do! I risk my life (don't judge, you don't know what kind of an engineer I am - hint, I worked for Raytheon Missile Systems).

Oh, by the way - if you have ever worked as a salaried employee - say as I did... you don't get paid over time in a professional job. You still get to work before the sun rises, and go home after the sun sets.

Oh, by the way - if you have ever worked as a salaried employee - say as I did... you don't get paid over time in a professional job. You still get to work before the sun rises, and go home after the sun sets. You don't get paid weekends when you are called in because the whole world is just coming to an end. Time off - yeah I got time off, but no 30 freakin days!
Medical - I paid $400 per month, and STILL had co-pays.
What employer out there has housing available (even if you have to wait for it).
Did you know that average household income was $47,000 two years ago?

Let's just look at this shall we... my example.
Take an E5 with 6 years in.
Base Pay - 2273, BAS 272 per month (which I haven't figured out, so enlisted eat more than officers do?) anyway ... And just a round about number of 1000 for housing, even if you live in housing, it's still your money, your choice, counts in you total over all compensation...
And, yes I am going to do it - add in let's just say 300 per month in medical insurance... and I am going to hike up that life insurance 100 per month because YOU CAN'T GET LIFE INSURANCE THAT CHEAP PERIOD!
So - that's 3845 per month. Annual 46,140.
Now, go look in the paper ... see what the average person with six years experience and an associates degree makes.
Yes, I know - but they risk their lives... that is the persons choice. Windowwashers risk their lives everyday to keep the windows on the empire state building clean everyday. It's a thankless job, but they do it anyway. Police officers risk their lives - did you know, and I will look for this statistic I recently read it... more of our soldiers are killed in car accidents, and other type of off duty incidents in a year by a far greater percentage than those killed in combat? Oh, I have got to find those stats again.
I am just saying, no one thinks they are paid adequetly, and in reality - it isn't that bad compared to the average american.

Oh, by the way - if you have ever worked as a salaried employee - say as I did... you don't get paid over time in a professional job. You still get to work before the sun rises, and go home after the sun sets. You don't get paid weekends when you are called in because the whole world is just coming to an end. Time off - yeah I got time off, but no 30 freakin days!
Medical - I paid $400 per month, and STILL had co-pays.
What employer out there has housing available (even if you have to wait for it).
Did you know that average household income was $47,000 two years ago?

Let's just look at this shall we... my example.
Take an E5 with 6 years in.
Base Pay - 2273, BAS 272 per month (which I haven't figured out, so enlisted eat more than officers do?) anyway ... And just a round about number of 1000 for housing, even if you live in housing, it's still your money, your choice, counts in you total over all compensation...
And, yes I am going to do it - add in let's just say 300 per month in medical insurance... and I am going to hike up that life insurance 100 per month because YOU CAN'T GET LIFE INSURANCE THAT CHEAP PERIOD!
So - that's 3845 per month. Annual 46,140.
Now, go look in the paper ... see what the average person with six years experience and an associates degree makes.
Yes, I know - but they risk their lives... that is the persons choice. Windowwashers risk their lives everyday to keep the windows on the empire state building clean everyday. It's a thankless job, but they do it anyway. Police officers risk their lives - did you know, and I will look for this statistic I recently read it... more of our soldiers are killed in car accidents, and other type of off duty incidents in a year by a far greater percentage than those killed in combat? Oh, I have got to find those stats again.
I am just saying, no one thinks they are paid adequetly, and in reality - it isn't that bad compared to the average american.


ok, so 46 grand for an E5 with 6 yrs. Dh on the outside would make 3 times that!!! and that is starting out.... he has 8 yrs experience. so yes there is a difference. you cant go straight across the board. cause each job is paid very differently on the civilian side of things. i figured it out one time and even figuring everything in, ie... medical, housing, the different allowances. DH would still make more on the outside for the same job and less hours. the only reason why i said slightly underpaid was that i believe that they need to bring the housing allowances up to where they should be.

ok, so 46 grand for an E5 with 6 yrs. Dh on the outside would make 3 times that!!! and that is starting out.... he has 8 yrs experience. so yes there is a difference. you cant go straight across the board. cause each job is paid very differently on the civilian side of things. i figured it out one time and even figuring everything in, ie... medical, housing, the different allowances. DH would still make more on the outside for the same job and less hours. the only reason why i said slightly underpaid was that i believe that they need to bring the housing allowances up to where they should be.

But see... my point is that it's your husband CHOICE to stay in the military. Yeah my husband would make a HECK of a lot more one the outside than he does in the Army - it's his choice to stay in. People staying in the military are choosing to accept the pay as it is... if they don't like it, there is an option.

Is the military underpaid - well - ask a civilian counterpart if they would turn down their next raise because they think they are compensated adequetly.

Another example. Someone working in Taco Bell. In Virginia they are paid 5.15 per hour, in Washington they make 7.45 per hour. Are they equally compensated? Does someone working at Taco Bell not deserve more than minimum wage? I would imagine you ask any Taco Bell employee if they make enough, they are going to say HECK NO!

And my example is not job specific, it's overall.

It really depends. They have COLA in some areas to compesate the difference but some areas that should have it have none. The compensation when they are gone seems about right but for the hours they work on a regular basis, they are grossly underpaid. Honestly, our politicians need to get paid less and our military men paid more. As of January 1 2005, members of Congress make $162,100.

Why do these people get paid this much?


Executive Branch

President: $400,000; $50,000 expense account; $100,000 nontaxable for travel; $19,000 official entertainment account; free housing
Retired president: $150,000 pension; plus $150,000 to maintain staff
Former first lady: $20,000
Vice president: $208,100; $10,000 expense account; free housing
Presidential Cabinet member (i.e. secretary of defense, attorney general, etc.): $157,000Legislative Branch

Speaker of the House of Representatives: $208,100
Senate president pro tempore: $180,100
Senate and House majority and minority leaders: $180,100
Other senators and representatives: $162,100Judicial Branch

Supreme Court chief justice: $208,100
Supreme Court associate justices: $199,200
Circuit judges: $171,800
District judges: $162,100Compared to a district judge our military members risking their lives are GROSSLY UNDERPAID. I do not compare our "income" to the general public because the military is not part of the general public. They are getting paid by the federal government. So to me, compared to these guys, our men get the shaft.
:agree :five

Oh, by the way - if you have ever worked as a salaried employee - say as I did... you don't get paid over time in a professional job. You still get to work before the sun rises, and go home after the sun sets. You don't get paid weekends when you are called in because the whole world is just coming to an end. Time off - yeah I got time off, but no 30 freakin days!
Medical - I paid $400 per month, and STILL had co-pays.
What employer out there has housing available (even if you have to wait for it).
Did you know that average household income was $47,000 two years ago?

Let's just look at this shall we... my example.
Take an E5 with 6 years in.
Base Pay - 2273, BAS 272 per month (which I haven't figured out, so enlisted eat more than officers do?) anyway ... And just a round about number of 1000 for housing, even if you live in housing, it's still your money, your choice, counts in you total over all compensation...
And, yes I am going to do it - add in let's just say 300 per month in medical insurance... and I am going to hike up that life insurance 100 per month because YOU CAN'T GET LIFE INSURANCE THAT CHEAP PERIOD!
So - that's 3845 per month. Annual 46,140.
Now, go look in the paper ... see what the average person with six years experience and an associates degree makes.
Yes, I know - but they risk their lives... that is the persons choice. Windowwashers risk their lives everyday to keep the windows on the empire state building clean everyday. It's a thankless job, but they do it anyway. Police officers risk their lives - did you know, and I will look for this statistic I recently read it... more of our soldiers are killed in car accidents, and other type of off duty incidents in a year by a far greater percentage than those killed in combat? Oh, I have got to find those stats again.
I am just saying, no one thinks they are paid adequetly, and in reality - it isn't that bad compared to the average american.


I guess if I made 200k annually I wouldnt' be complaining about how much my DH/SO made. :rolleyes You get fired for not doing your job right, where these military members could go to JAIL if they screw up or refuse to do their :quotejob:quote. Does the :quoteaverage american:quote have to leave his family at moments notice? Do they miss 4+ years of their family life in a 20 year career? No. My husband chooses to serve the military, he could be in the civilian sector making over 125K entry wages, including full coverage health compensation for him and our family, and relocation allowances. He made a little over 40K last year, and that's including BAH, and BAS and other compensations. Some people are proud to serve their country but it doesn't mean they agree with how minimal the wages truly are compared to the civilian sector.

Oh, by the way - if you have ever worked as a salaried employee - say as I did... you don't get paid over time in a professional job. You still get to work before the sun rises, and go home after the sun sets. You don't get paid weekends when you are called in because the whole world is just coming to an end. Time off - yeah I got time off, but no 30 freakin days!


Yes, some of us navy wives have held a profesional job. I do also remember as being a working professional getting bonuses and other little perks. Hmmm, I'd love to see the day our "salaried" military men get a freakin christmas bonus.

But see... my point is that it's your husband CHOICE to stay in the military. Yeah my husband would make a HECK of a lot more one the outside than he does in the Army - it's his choice to stay in. People staying in the military are choosing to accept the pay as it is... if they don't like it, there is an option.

Is the military underpaid - well - ask a civilian counterpart if they would turn down their next raise because they think they are compensated adequetly.

Another example. Someone working in Taco Bell. In Virginia they are paid 5.15 per hour, in Washington they make 7.45 per hour. Are they equally compensated? Does someone working at Taco Bell not deserve more than minimum wage? I would imagine you ask any Taco Bell employee if they make enough, they are going to say HECK NO!

And my example is not job specific, it's overall.

no it's not our choice. no matter how much we make on the outside, we wont be able to afford to cover Gabe with medical insurance and cover the other 4 of us as well. it will cost us more to cover him than it will the other 4 of us together. and we will make too much to be elegible for state aid. the only reason we are staying is cause DH is at 12 years. i could care less about the retirement pay. we need the medical coverage for Gabe. so no, for us we dont have a choice.

and the difference in pay that you stated is called a cost of living difference. yes, in the military we get that. but how can the cost of living be the same in hawaii and san diego. but san diego doesnt get the COLA?

But see... my point is that it's your husband CHOICE to stay in the military. Yeah my husband would make a HECK of a lot more one the outside than he does in the Army - it's his choice to stay in. People staying in the military are choosing to accept the pay as it is... if they don't like it, there is an option.

Is the military underpaid - well - ask a civilian counterpart if they would turn down their next raise because they think they are compensated adequetly.

Another example. Someone working in Taco Bell. In Virginia they are paid 5.15 per hour, in Washington they make 7.45 per hour. Are they equally compensated? Does someone working at Taco Bell not deserve more than minimum wage? I would imagine you ask any Taco Bell employee if they make enough, they are going to say HECK NO!

And my example is not job specific, it's overall.

You are comparing the differences in minimum wages which are regulated by each state. Yes, I know that the federal government regulates the minimum, minimum wage but each state regulates it after that. Our military members don't just go to work daily and fill tacos, most have technical training and experience in a sector that can't be compared. You try and do your job, worrying about a jet intake sucking you in or bombs blowing up around you. Honestly, some people couldn't hack this lifestyle.

Most people that stay in the military AFTER their first enlistment do know the wages aren't great but they have pride in the job and serving their country. Yet, that doesn't change the fact that they ARE underpaid.

My husband operates nuclear reactors for a living...I voted grossly underpaid :lol

Here on shore duty...I can't really say we're grossly underpaid, but when we're at sea duty and he's on duty every 3rd day...onto the ship at 6am and home by 4pm...yeah that's an underpayment issue, definately.

He's staying in for the rest of his career though, I think he's got another 8-9 years, so his pension will pay the house payment ;)

Police officers risk their lives

I agree with this statement, but I think you have a skewed view of the payment of the military because of the amount of money you make. Maybe it is your husband's choice to stay in but a lot of military members don't have a spouse that makes the money you do. If your DH chose to get out - you could still afford to eat. DH is getting out soon and he probably won't make more if even as much as he is making now (note: he's an officer so he is compensated more than some others who answered here). His job won't be as secure and medical will cost. How is someone who's spouse doesn't have a job supposed to be comfortable taking care of their family? The :quote choice :quote isn't as black and white as you think.

Just to add - how do the folks that say their DH would make 125 or 150K a year know this? Where are these figures coming from? i have 7 years experience in IT and i don't make 150K a year - it's not a cinch.

As far as the original question - from an officer point of view, i think he is compensated fairly.

Yes, it is a choice, however, if people didn't make this choice the where would we be? Someone has to do the job. My husband loves his job. And yes he is underpaid (we don't get sea pay either). The stability is good though and we keep the end goal in sight. A FINE house with his retirement :)
And like Donna, the medical makes it all worthwhile.
Oh and we will be paying 70/month in additional life insurance and I have a disability so yes you can get insurance cheaper than 100/month.

I think that if people think they are so drastically underpaid, they should do what anyone else would do unsatisfied with their job, find a new one. Sign a contract - no one held a gun to anyone's head and made them sign on the bottom line now did they?
I don't know anyone who says "yeah, I make plenty of money, I am not underpaid for what I do, raise - I don't need a raise I make enough as it is, thanks" ....
Is the military underpaid? Yeah, but so am I when I am working as an engineer ONLY making a little over $200k per year - I should make more than that for what I do! I risk my life (don't judge, you don't know what kind of an engineer I am - hint, I worked for Raytheon Missile Systems).

So you say that the military is underpaid at an average of 47,000 per year but that they CHOSE to do that... yet you are saying YOU are underpaid making 200,000 a year working for a weapons company? Which YOU also chose? Pot? Kettle? Not to mention, there are military jobs that do the same thing that you do, getting paid at least 1/4 of that.

Do you go overseas for months at a time for your work? Do you work 60+ hours a week? I am asking, not comparing.

I agree that they CHOSE to go into the military, but does that mean the pay is fair? No.

I also wanted to add to what you said about salaried employees. Depending on the wage, you do get paid for overtime. If you are making 200,000 a year and expect overtime? Not going to happen... If you make a salary of $25,000 a year? You can expect overtime pay, legally. I didn't know this mysel until I worked a salaried position with a lower wage, and was compensated for everything over 50 hours a week. ;)

Overall, I think the military is slightly underpaid. I happen to think that the United States Government agrees with that considering they have had a 3.5% pay increase each year for the past few years to attempt to bring the pay up to the civilian average of pay increases. :D

Considering many of those coming into the military are young w/no experience or college I think the pay is fair. I do though believe that after 6 years of service the pay should be a little higher. An 18 year old fresh out of highschool without any experience will never find a HIGH paying job unless it's some sort of sales position.

I think we are slightly underpaid. I think we deserve a decent payraise and the BAH should be raised. The amount of mortgages and rent are still on the high end, and I think the BAH should be raised to match it. Otherwise, I am pretty satisfied.

I agree

So you say that the military is underpaid at an average of 47,000 per year but that they CHOSE to do that... yet you are saying YOU are underpaid making 200,000 a year working for a weapons company? Which YOU also chose? Pot? Kettle? Not to mention, there are military jobs that do the same thing that you do, getting paid at least 1/4 of that.

Do you go overseas for months at a time for your work? Do you work 60+ hours a week? I am asking, not comparing.

I agree that they CHOSE to go into the military, but does that mean the pay is fair? No.

I also wanted to add to what you said about salaried employees. Depending on the wage, you do get paid for overtime. If you are making 200,000 a year and expect overtime? Not going to happen... If you make a salary of $25,000 a year? You can expect overtime pay, legally. I didn't know this mysel until I worked a salaried position with a lower wage, and was compensated for everything over 50 hours a week. ;)

Overall, I think the military is slightly underpaid. I happen to think that the United States Government agrees with that considering they have had a 3.5% pay increase each year for the past few years to attempt to bring the pay up to the civilian average of pay increases. :D

i agree. though i wanted to add that there are few jobs where the entire family's medical insurance is covered or that any medical needs the servicemember has are (generally) taken care of. HOWEVER, i do agree that considering all the other factors of a servicemember's job (ie the hours, the deployments, etc) i would have to say that i agree with what trey said -- and that they are slightly underpaid.

So you say that the military is underpaid at an average of 47,000 per year but that they CHOSE to do that... yet you are saying YOU are underpaid making 200,000 a year working for a weapons company? Which YOU also chose? Pot? Kettle? Not to mention, there are military jobs that do the same thing that you do, getting paid at least 1/4 of that.

Do you go overseas for months at a time for your work? Do you work 60+ hours a week? I am asking, not comparing.

I agree that they CHOSE to go into the military, but does that mean the pay is fair? No.

I also wanted to add to what you said about salaried employees. Depending on the wage, you do get paid for overtime. If you are making 200,000 a year and expect overtime? Not going to happen... If you make a salary of $25,000 a year? You can expect overtime pay, legally. I didn't know this mysel until I worked a salaried position with a lower wage, and was compensated for everything over 50 hours a week. ;)

Overall, I think the military is slightly underpaid. I happen to think that the United States Government agrees with that considering they have had a 3.5% pay increase each year for the past few years to attempt to bring the pay up to the civilian average of pay increases. :D

I agree with this.

However the pay increase is not 3.5% this year ;) It's a little less.

I guess if I made 200k annually I wouldnt' be complaining about how much my DH/SO made. :rolleyes

First, thanks for abiding by the rules of the forum when you started rolling your "eyes.

And second please don't assume that people who make 200k per year don't have 200k of bills... don't assume that the standard of living doesn't go up when the compensation does.

I think that if people think they are so drastically underpaid, they should do what anyone else would do unsatisfied with their job, find a new one. Sign a contract - no one held a gun to anyone's head and made them sign on the bottom line now did they?
I don't know anyone who says "yeah, I make plenty of money, I am not underpaid for what I do, raise - I don't need a raise I make enough as it is, thanks" ....
Is the military underpaid? Yeah, but so am I when I am working as an engineer ONLY making a little over $200k per year - I should make more than that for what I do! I risk my life (don't judge, you don't know what kind of an engineer I am - hint, I worked for Raytheon Missile Systems).

:shrug My dad worked at Rayheon for 15 years doing pretty much the same thing... He didn't make near that much either at the time.
That didn't impress me sorry. Sounded rather snotty.

First, thanks for abiding by the rules of the forum when you started rolling your "eyes.

And second please don't assume that people who make 200k per year don't have 200k of bills... don't assume that the standard of living doesn't go up when the compensation does.

HHHOOOOLLLDDDD on now.. people who make more money choose to raise thier standard of living ;) When I was a kid my parents were poor and we lived on what we had.. now my parents have more money and have nicer things BY CHOICE. You could still live in a smaller house or drive cheaper cars.. no one makes you have high bills. You chose that ;)

I agree with this statement, but I think you have a skewed view of the payment of the military because of the amount of money you make. Maybe it is your husband's choice to stay in but a lot of military members don't have a spouse that makes the money you do. If your DH chose to get out - you could still afford to eat. DH is getting out soon and he probably won't make more if even as much as he is making now (note: he's an officer so he is compensated more than some others who answered here). His job won't be as secure and medical will cost. How is someone who's spouse doesn't have a job supposed to be comfortable taking care of their family? The :quote choice :quote isn't as black and white as you think.

Just to add - how do the folks that say their DH would make 125 or 150K a year know this? Where are these figures coming from? i have 7 years experience in IT and i don't make 150K a year - it's not a cinch.

As far as the original question - from an officer point of view, i think he is compensated fairly.

OK, I guess you didn't read my statement I said *WHEN* I was working, I never said I made that much now. I am unemployed. I hope your husband can find a good job when he gets out. It can't be easy, but the strength you gained while in will help you through the times when he is out.

HHHOOOOLLLDDDD on now.. people who make more money choose to raise thier standard of living ;) When I was a kid my parents were poor and we lived on what we had.. now my parents have more money and have nicer things BY CHOICE. You could still live in a smaller house or drive cheaper cars.. no one makes you have high bills. You chose that ;)


Yes, just the way WE CHOOSE to accept the military pay scale, crappy, unfair, what ever .... we choose. Thanks for making my point for me.

OK, I guess you didn't read my statement I said *WHEN* I was working, I never said I made that much now. I am unemployed. I hope your husband can find a good job when he gets out. It can't be easy, but the strength you gained while in will help you through the times when he is out.

Why you threw out that that made 200k in the first place I don't understand. I don't think it impressed anyone.

Yes, just the way WE CHOOSE to accept the military pay scale, crappy, unfair, what ever .... we choose. Thanks for making my point for me.

My husband did Choose it to an extent. We didn't chose to live in a place that the cost of living is high and we get shit for BAH. When my husband reenlisted he also wasn't working 100-120 hours per week. and that is not an exhageration, they have been port and starboard duty for about half a year and will be until further notice.. the nukes anyway.

My husband is in until 2011 and he is now very unhappy because of his current scituation but he doesn't have the option of looking for a new job like a civilian does.


ETA: I think it's very respectable for the men and woman in the military to make the sacrifice to be in the Military.... just because they chose to defend our country doens't mean they don't have the right to feel they are underpaid for what they do since most truely are.

So you say that the military is underpaid at an average of 47,000 per year but that they CHOSE to do that... yet you are saying YOU are underpaid making 200,000 a year working for a weapons company? Which YOU also chose? Pot? Kettle? Not to mention, there are military jobs that do the same thing that you do, getting paid at least 1/4 of that.

Do you go overseas for months at a time for your work? Do you work 60+ hours a week? I am asking, not comparing.

I agree that they CHOSE to go into the military, but does that mean the pay is fair? No.

I also wanted to add to what you said about salaried employees. Depending on the wage, you do get paid for overtime. If you are making 200,000 a year and expect overtime? Not going to happen... If you make a salary of $25,000 a year? You can expect overtime pay, legally. I didn't know this mysel until I worked a salaried position with a lower wage, and was compensated for everything over 50 hours a week. ;)

Overall, I think the military is slightly underpaid. I happen to think that the United States Government agrees with that considering they have had a 3.5% pay increase each year for the past few years to attempt to bring the pay up to the civilian average of pay increases. :D

First, pot, kettle - aren't there rules for the debate forums?
Anyway, my point, that you have missed is basically the question is not one we can answer fairly, because average people don't feel they are compensated fairly.
As an answer to your assumptious question, yes I went to Kuwait for my job. Did I get paid anymore for doing so, nope, just the tax break.

Did I work 60 hours + per week? Hmmm lets see usually about 6 in the morning to about 6 or 7 at night ... thats closer to 90 hours a week. Lets not mention did I get paid overtime during the weeks of long trips where I was gone - NO.
Did anyone else I worked with.
Nope.

I am trying to make a point here that I think you all are missing...
It is my opinion that if you choose to accept something - yeah, ok, little complaints here and there... but, you choose this life. If you don't think you make enough, and it's such a big deal we now are having a heated debate over it, and I am being attacked about having a differed opinion then why not get out.

Then again, my husband doesn't do it for the money. It's not that important to us right now. If the money were more important then we would both have different ways that we spend our time.

First, pot, kettle - aren't there rules for the debate forums?



There ARE rules and she didn't break any. She's a moderator at that ;)

Well, I guess I am just wrong... ;)
Guess I was expecting debates to be professional, not sarcastic. I have tried leaving sarcasm out. ;)

...aren't there rules for the debate forums?



Not really. But here's a link to the Debate Rules sticky. Sarcasm is a staple here at military sos. It's what we do. :rofl

http://forum.militarysos.com/showthread.php?t=7104

Well, I guess I am just wrong... ;)
Guess I was expecting debates to be professional, not sarcastic. I have tried leaving sarcasm out. ;)

sarcasm out, snot in, right? always the best way to go.

I don't think Trey was even being sarcastic.

sarcasm out, snot in, right? always the best way to go.

I don't think Trey was even being sarcastic.

Hmm... I think the best thing (the adult thing) is to just stop passing digs back and forth now, and get back to the debate... right? If there is a personal issue with me, lets keep it off the board, you can PM me ok?

Not really. But here's a link to the Debate Rules sticky. Sarcasm is a staple here at military sos. It's what we do. :rofl

http://forum.militarysos.com/showthread.php?t=7104


:yes

...My husband is in until 2011

Like in this example, the choice isn't always an option. He CAN'T get out now - so how is that choosing to stay in? The reasons folks here have stated for why they think they are underpaid are hours and cost of living. Hours are command dependent. You don't know you're going to end up in a command that works 100 hrs a week until you're there. You don't always get a choice or know where you'll end up either.

And second please don't assume that people who make 200k per year don't have 200k of bills... don't assume that the standard of living doesn't go up when the compensation does.

Sorry, but you (the general you) can live very comfortably without being in debt on 200K per year. Standard of living and Cost of living are very different things.

I hope your husband can find a good job when he gets out. It can't be easy, but the strength you gained while in will help you through the times when he is out.

Thanks. :)

Hmm... I think the best thing (the adult thing) is to just stop passing digs back and forth now, and get back to the debate... right? If there is a personal issue with me, lets keep it off the board, you can PM me ok?

No need to PM you I said what I had to say.

Like in this example, the choice isn't always an option. He CAN'T get out now - so how is that choosing to stay in? The reasons folks here have stated for why they think they are underpaid are hours and cost of living. Hours are command dependent. You don't know you're going to end up in a command that works 100 hrs a week until you're there. You don't always get a choice or know where you'll end up either.


Thank you, that was my point there. :)

OK, but my point here is he signed the contract. Did anyone force him to sign the contract? If he is in until 2011 - it is by his own choice.
That is what I am trying to say.

OK, but my point here is he signed the contract. Did anyone force him to sign the contract? If he is in until 2011 - it is by his own choice.
That is what I am trying to say.

But the contract doesn't specify where he will go and how many hours he will have to work every year. THAT is my point.

But the contract doesn't specify where he will go and how many hours he will have to work every year. THAT is my point.

Exactly. If he would have been told "You will only see your family 3 nights a week for a couple hours" he would not have reenlisted. If he was told "we will not give you opportunities to eat lunch or allow you to get any more than 3 hours of sleep on a duty night, which, btw will be every other night" he would not have reenlisted. He's runs a nuclear reactor and works more than 100 hours every week and of course he does not get over time... That, he did not choose.

I also wanted to add... I now that when people join the militray they "know what they are getting into"... But not really because there are military standards and guidelines as far as working hours and how many hours you should have off ect... My husbands command far exceeds the working hours and they don't follow most of the other guidelines as far as treatment of the men. If my husband worked the 80 hours a week that the military talks about being average, then his pay wouldn't seam quite so bad.

Did he not do any research at all before signing?
Did he not talk to other "employees"... not watch the news? Nothing, just went in totally blind?
Don't know about anyone else, but everytime I get a job I research the company before I commit to anything so I know what I am getting in to.
military.com, about.com, there are so many avenues available that will explain the reality of military life. Could he not have googled a military message board to do some research to find out what they thought of it? There are thousands of people on myspace that would probably love to give someone the realities of military life.

I also wanted to add... I now that when people join the militray they "know what they are getting into"... But not really because there are military standards and guidelines as far as working hours and how many hours you should have off ect...

:yes at DH's last command he had a hard time getting off for a cousin's funeral. He has so much leave time amassed now he is losing it.

I also wanted to add... I now that when people join the militray they "know what they are getting into"... But not really because there are military standards and guidelines as far as working hours and how many hours you should have off ect... My husbands command far exceeds the working hours and they don't follow most of the other guidelines as far as treatment of the men. If my husband worked the 80 hours a week that the military talks about being average, then his pay wouldn't seam quite so bad.

touche - I totally agree about the commands working military members far against regulation guidelines... it sucks.

Just for the record Sheri, I don't know about the Army - but in the navy, command expectations change every time the chain of command changes. You can do all the research in the world, but work load varies by department, and expected hours, etc. one year could change dramatically the next. Let's not even mention the way a single work-up cycle can change morale and hours onboard...

My husband has been in the Navy for going on 8 years... People know that nothing is guaranteed or certain in the military BUT a lot of things have changed and his command along with others treat the men in ways that you would never know about doing research.

Just for the record Sheri, I don't know about the Army - but in the navy, command expectations change every time the chain of command changes. You can do all the research in the world, but work load varies by department, and expected hours, etc. one year could change dramatically the next. Let's not even mention the way a single work-up cycle can change morale and hours onboard...

This is very true.

Did he not do any research at all before signing?
Did he not talk to other "employees"... not watch the news? Nothing, just went in totally blind?
Don't know about anyone else, but everytime I get a job I research the company before I commit to anything so I know what I am getting in to.
military.com, about.com, there are so many avenues available that will explain the reality of military life. Could he not have googled a military message board to do some research to find out what they thought of it? There are thousands of people on myspace that would probably love to give someone the realities of military life.


I'm sorry but the work to be done on a pre comm CAN NOT be judged.....Its always diffrent. We did a pre comm too with the understanding it was a sea going shore duty.....HAHA what a line of BS that was!! So there goes the thought of doing research before choosing!

:wow

:yes at DH's last command he had a hard time getting off for a cousin's funeral. He has so much leave time amassed now he is losing it.

Girl don't I know it. DH couldn't get time off for his Grandmothers funeral... he lost 16 days of leave last year. Came home from Iraq on a Saturday, was back at work 14 hours a day on Monday.

I voted for slightly under.... On our 1st shore duty coming up next year..Joel will probably try to get on them.... he will get double the pay working on the SAME equipment!! Although, he still will entertian the though of dealing with the last few years left to get retirement.

I agree with Sheri. No one thinks they are paid fairly. Our benefits in the military far out weigh those in civilian jobs.


My brother is a nuke. Makes really good money in the military. Nucular engineers make pretty good money outside the military. However, as an E5 with 5 years in he is making about $20,000 more a year than he would in the civilian world. You cant beat free rent, utilities, insurance of all kinds, military discounts....they do add up to make our life just as good as those civilians


Everyone is going to complain they do not make enough. You are right those making $200,000 a year could bank a lot of money if they lived like those who make $50,000. But those who make $50,000 could bank a lot of money if they lived like those who make $20,000. After all, ALL we really need is food, shelter, and clothing. Not organic food. Not a nice big house. Not designer clothing. Not monster computers.

Basically we get paid enough. Would a little more be nice. yes.


the average income in the civilian world is less than $50,000 a year. Most of us make that much with all our benefits.

I'm sorry but the work to be done on a pre comm CAN NOT be judged.....Its always diffrent. We did a pre comm too with the understanding it was a sea going shore duty.....HAHA what a line of BS that was!! So there goes the thought of doing research before choosing!

My husbands boat is right behind yours, I know it.

Ugghhh (I like the sarcasm accepted rule ;) )
I concede. I am wrong. The military is SOOOOOO underpaid for what they do, and it certianly isn't the service members fault for choosing the career.

Yeah - it's different for the Army & Navy - I was a Navy wife... been through Sea Duty, on a ship, been through shore duty (which crap, the hours seemed the same)... it is different from one command to the next. Correct - I was so failingly trying to point out that you can do research, ask what the worst case scenario - I am willing to bet some person looking to go in could come here and get the dish of the worst the military has to offer.
But, like I said, I concede, for every point I make, you can make one different, for every point you make I can make one different... gotta love a good debate...

I did research everything, everyday for over a year before he joined. In a world of job instability and uncertaincies- THIS was the best route for us. To sign our 4 yr agreement because ANYTHING, even the risks my husband takes when he deploys is worth it in the long run. Oh, BTW, did I mention we did the Civilian work-force deal for FIVE years before the Navy?

Why does anyone have to be right or wrong? It's all about opinions. That's what makes a debate...if there was right or wrong about anything, it wouldn't be possible to debate it. ;)

Why does anyone have to be right or wrong? It's all about opinions. That's what makes a debate...if there was right or wrong about anything, it wouldn't be possible to debate it. ;)
Totally agree. Two sides to everything.

I agree with Sheri. No one thinks they are paid fairly. Our benefits in the military far out weigh those in civilian jobs.


My brother is a nuke. Makes really good money in the military. Nucular engineers make pretty good money outside the military. However, as an E5 with 5 years in he is making about $20,000 more a year than he would in the civilian world. You cant beat free rent, utilities, insurance of all kinds, military discounts....they do add up to make our life just as good as those civilians


Everyone is going to complain they do not make enough. You are right those making $200,000 a year could bank a lot of money if they lived like those who make $50,000. But those who make $50,000 could bank a lot of money if they lived like those who make $20,000. After all, ALL we really need is food, shelter, and clothing. Not organic food. Not a nice big house. Not designer clothing. Not monster computers.

Basically we get paid enough. Would a little more be nice. yes.


the average income in the civilian world is less than $50,000 a year. Most of us make that much with all our benefits.


There are nuke E-5's who I personally know who have gotten out and made more than 20k more then they did in the military (and I mean more beyond BAH and all)

Some of us cannot live in housing.. it's not an option for us because the waiting list is 2 years long. The col is high here and the BAH isn't very much. Our bah only covers rent.

It is almost impossible for a family to live on 20k a year especially somewhere like here. That was a bit of an exhageration to use what I said to make your point.

This is a subject that will naturally vary from person to person because of rank differences, command differences ect...

Considering many of those coming into the military are young w/no experience or college I think the pay is fair. I do though believe that after 6 years of service the pay should be a little higher. An 18 year old fresh out of highschool without any experience will never find a HIGH paying job unless it's some sort of sales position.

I voted slightly underpaid but I do agree with this statement. Not many high school grads could do as well with as many benefits without college.

IMO no one in this world, especially in our society feel they are paid enough. Atheltes, movie stars, CEO of employees, salaried, hourly, military, who ever it may be, no one is satisfied.

Do I think our military is underpaid, yes I do. But the benefits like health care, housing, TA for the guys, that makes up for what we are lacking in pay I guess. Yes our guys work 60+ hours a week and stand watch. But working civilian as a salary is no better. I had guys at my old company who worked 15 sometimes 20 hrs a day 7 days a week, took work home with them even took it when on vacation, would be gone on road trips 3 weeks out of a month trying to sign deals and they still couldn't make ends meet becuase of their salary earnings.

It comes down to each person weighing the pros and cons of any career. Do the pros out weigh the cons. Obvisously for any one, whether civi or military, the choice to stay where they are now is their choice. If you stay in the service becuase of the health benefits, or the housing, or the career oppertunities, or whatever the reason it is still a choice. IMO

First, thanks for abiding by the rules of the forum when you started rolling your "eyes.

And second please don't assume that people who make 200k per year don't have 200k of bills... don't assume that the standard of living doesn't go up when the compensation does.

Ok, me rolling my eyes at your statement in NO way disrespects anything. Now, if I started calling you names, then ;) say something to me. You choose to have 200k of bills. Just because I am a SAHM mom now does not mean I have never earned income in my life, and I don't need to flash the amount around. Nothing in your statement impressed me.

I know how much my husband would be making in the civilian sector because we have friends who now work out of the military. When we were debating on getting out we looked at ALL our options, talked to recruiters from these companies and through all that my DH loves being in the Navy and chose to serve. Even though it was a pay cut from what he COULD be earning. So yeah, he's underpaid for what he does. Many are underpaid for what they do and the time they serve daily and away from their family.

Ok, me rolling my eyes at your statement in NO way disrespects anything. Now, if I started calling you names, then ;) say something to me. You choose to have 200k of bills. Just because I am a SAHM mom now does not mean I have never earned income in my life, and I don't need to flash the amount around. Nothing in your statement impressed me.

I know how much my husband would be making in the civilian sector because we have friends who now work out of the military. When we were debating on getting out we looked at ALL our options, talked to recruiters from these companies and through all that my DH loves being in the Navy and chose to serve. Even though it was a pay cut from what he COULD be earning. So yeah, he's underpaid for what he does. Many are underpaid for what they do and the time they serve daily and away from their family.

The military PROVIDES that experience to get out and work in the civilian world. I agree that most rates (in the Navy) can and do get out and work in the same field making good money BUT they would NEVER get that job with out the training and experience they GAIN while in. Hope that makes sense LOL

dh is a nuke and he has done his research and he has found that he can be making a shit ton. i do not have the exact figure off the top of my head but he has the network to get a job that pays over 100K a year, if he were to do the job that he does now. our military members may not have to pay for school and if you live in housing 'pay' for housing but the consequences are not so great either. many of you are SAHM and WAHM, etc etc who don't see your hubby all that often. they are gone for up to a year at times. i don't know much about the other branches of the military (mostly just the navy) but it is my impression that pay is different depending on the job you do and the branch you are in. i think my husband is underpaid. not grossly but slightly/moderately.

The military PROVIDES that experience to get out and work in the civilian world. I agree that most rates (in the Navy) can and do get out and work in the same field making good money BUT they would NEVER get that job with out the training and experience they GAIN while in. Hope that makes sense LOL

It makes sense in a general view but you don't know that my DH didn't have the experience otherwise. You are assuming. He is serving his country because of a deeper reason, which is a choice. But the military didn't give him all the experience in the field he is working in now. Yes, he has more experience now but not everyone that joins enlisted is untrained or uneducated.

We aren't ungrateful for the stability of the military in the sense of pay (most of the time) but it is off based on different factors, whether by location or by job specification. There are alot of people that can make more in civi sector and all I'm trying to say is that if it's all about the money, most wouldn't serve.

It makes sense in a general view but you don't know that my DH didn't have the experience otherwise. You are assuming. He is serving his country because of a deeper reason, which is a choice. But the military didn't give him all the experience in the field he is working in now. Yes, he has more experience now but not everyone that joins enlisted is untrained or uneducated.

We aren't ungrateful for the stability of the military in the sense of pay (most of the time) but it is off based on different factors, whether by location or by job specification. There are alot of people that can make more in civi sector and all I'm trying to say is that if it's all about the money, most wouldn't serve.
Joy I totally hit quote instead of reply so my comment was directed at the debate itself. Sorry.

Joy I totally hit quote instead of reply so my comment was directed at the debate itself. Sorry.

:heehee No worries. I probably would have made the point anyways, just because some do join with prior experience. Good point though, I see what you are saying and how it applies to some.

:heehee No worries. I probably would have made the point anyways, just because some do join with prior experience. Good point though, I see what you are saying and how it applies to some.

I was trying to post w/out my glasses. There's my age catching up with me again .:lmao

I was trying to post w/out my glasses. There's my age catching up with me again .:lmao

:lmao, no not old, just bad eyes. DH can't see past his nose if he doesn't wear his glasses and he never does. :screwy

If so many people thought the military was "a bad deal" "unfair" or "under paid".....and they could do better in the civilian world they would.

If so many people thought the military was "a bad deal" "unfair" or "under paid".....and they could do better in the civilian world they would.

The only thing that keeps us in is DH's want to serve. It's not "all" about the money and I stated that a few times already.

My husband will be the first to tell anyone that the pride he has for serving makes up for the money he isn't paid.

My husband will be the first to tell anyone that the pride he has for serving makes up for the money he isn't paid.


:yes

underpaid. I just like the idea of getting paid hourly and getting paid time and a half. If he was paid that way, and I could finally settle down with a job and was able to advance, I'd have no problem paying my own insurance. We've done it before. It came right out of his check, so I actually forgot we were paying for it.

We have done all the above--with military then civilian then military again.

For us (IMO) things are better here now, but yes sometimes I feel the pay sucks, like why don't certian places get sea duty pay while others do, why do we lose our BAH when they go to Sea, but it is counting in for WIC, food stamps and such, but yet it is not for "US" for it is for the mititary member.

When my dad was in the AF back in the day --all pays when off of how many dependents you had, but people abuse that system.

So yes, I agree and disagree--we could be civilian again--probably making more but my dh loves the navy and enjoys what he does (most of the time)

but we are talking about pay--i feel we are sighlty under paid, not what you should or shouldn't get. Or am I missing the whole post! :)

I have more in my thoughts right now---but the baby wants food LOL--well actually he is toddler,

Some days I feel MM are under paid but in reality, with all the benefits and extra pays (ie:BAH and BAS) we get paid decent. I'm not sure what jobs or degrees some of your husbands have that could make over 100K a year if they got out of the military, but I know that right now my dh is an E5 with almost 6 years in and with all pay coming in right now not counting medical benefits hes making about $41K a year. Well my dh is getting out of the Navy come March with his Masters in Project Management and the highest hes finding a job is around $45K and thats the highest! And YES thats with a Masters Degree. So if any of you know any great 150K jobs please send them to me so I can submit my dhs resume to them!