I do not want this to get out of hand or too far off topic. Even though I put this in debate I do not want it to get nasty. If you cant be helpful and tactful then please do not respond.


We are highly encouraged to teach children diversity in daycare. Mom going to work, dad staying home, women being doctors, men being teachers, along with race and culture.

I searched long and hard for good childrens books that show some of these things. One series is the Zoe books. I only got 1 so far, let me explain it a bit. Zoe is starting school in a new town. She has a white mommy who seems to work outside the home and a black daddy who is waiting for her to get off the bus in the afternoon. Great so far! Then towards the end the kids are talking about her having a chocolate dad and a vanilla mom. Another child has a strawberry mom with sprinkles.

This just rubs me, not wrong, but gives me a weird feeling. Does anyone have any suggestions? experiences with these terms being used? Is it weird to you? I've heard them before. But I just dont know if its something I really want to be teaching. Has anyone ever been offended to be called chocolate, vanilla, strawberry (or be compared to ice cream :lol)

Link to the Book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0972428402/sr=1-1/qid=1156110515/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-6801886-7956654?ie=UTF8&s=books)

Wow...that rubs me wierd too. It's racial, entirely. I don't understand how that type of characterization would be beneficial...but I can't pinpoint precisely how it's harmful. Why can't we as a people just be neopolitan?

**edited because I forgot to say that if someone said I was "vanilla", yes I would take that as a racial reference. The same goes for using the term "chocolate" for a black person. Skin color...hello...doesn't get much more blatant than that. You can't say something like that and pretend it isn't a racial remark. I don't know that I'd be offended perse...but I probably would be irritated by it.

I added the link to the book incase you wanted to see it ;)

Hmmm I personally wouldn't teach my children to use those terms only because I KNOW some people will take it as racism. They don't bother me but I wouldn't have my kids use them.




I'm strawberry with sprinkles.:teehee

I don't think Id get any more books like that. I know there are plenty of books the just have colored people in them. When I worked in daycare and as a nanny I never brought the color of skin to the childrens attention. I just made it part of everything. If I did a bulliten board with little children I'd be sure to make them different color people. I was careful to always have books that had colored people in them. We even had some spanish books for awhile. I couldn't read them but they still had colorful objects and brown people in them. We had colored dolls as well as white dolls. Things like that. I think if its just part of the environment then the kids wont even realize its something different.

As for chocolate and vanilla thats just weird

I don't think Id get any more books like that. I know there are plenty of books the just have colored people in them. When I worked in daycare and as a nanny I never brought the color of skin to the childrens attention. I just made it part of everything. If I did a bulliten board with little children I'd be sure to make them different color people. I was careful to always have books that had colored people in them. We even had some spanish books for awhile. I couldn't read them but they still had colorful objects and brown people in them. We had colored dolls as well as white dolls. Things like that. I think if its just part of the environment then the kids wont even realize its something different.

As for chocolate and vanilla thats just weird

Living here in Va with so many different races my kids don't even notice the difference in skin color.

I don't think Id get any more books like that. I know there are plenty of books the just have colored people in them. When I worked in daycare and as a nanny I never brought the color of skin to the childrens attention. I just made it part of everything. If I did a bulliten board with little children I'd be sure to make them different color people. I was careful to always have books that had colored people in them. We even had some spanish books for awhile. I couldn't read them but they still had colorful objects and brown people in them. We had colored dolls as well as white dolls. Things like that. I think if its just part of the environment then the kids wont even realize its something different.

As for chocolate and vanilla thats just weird


It would be nice if it wasnt a big deal to the kids. I have 2 little black girls, one 1/2 black and 1/2 asain, 2 white boys, and my son who is 1/2 white and 1/2 hispanic. the 4yo dcg walks around all the time telling the others what color they are. and the three black girls ages 1,2, and 4 will not play with the white baby doll. They fight over the 2 black ones. it is already an issue and I have to deal with it now.

I get the whole ice cream thing. Everyone likes many different kinds of ice cream so they should like different kinds of people. I understand the reasoning, but I dont really like it. :thinkin

I still remember what i was taught in school.. so here goes..

"it doesn't matter what colour, what shape we are, we are all equal. We can be polka dotted, we can be striped, we can be black, we can be white, we can be red and green, we can be circle, we can be square, we can be triangle.. we are all equal."

it works, and it dosn't discriminate.

have you tried taking the black baby dolls away and replacing them with white one or brown ones for awhile? Maybe its just the doll they are after not the color?

I bought 3 baby dolls because I have boys and do not have girl toys. They were the exact same doll, 1 white one and black twins. They are exactly the same except for color. The fights began from the introduction of the new toys. They knew without being taught. I have yet to find a decently priced hispanic or asian doll. since I'm not doing daycare forever I do not want to spend more money at this time.

i know they have different colored dolls like paper dolls or polly pocket type things that little kids can dress up and play with. maybe get some of those and let the girls share them. or let them dress one up and tell a story about it. i know you have some young ones but maybe that would help out somewhat. i'm bothered by the ice cream thing. i guess that goes back to the "chocolate city" thing in new orleans. i think making it like a constructive art project would be helpful. sort of like art therapy. let them draw even. like have them draw what they look like or what their family looks like or their best friend and tell why they like them and explain to them that its important to like other people of different colors.

Interesting. I called black people chocolates when I was younger. Nobody told me to call them that but I came up with it on my own. I think most of them were amused if they heard me say it. I was fascinated with black people at a young age. In my home town there are not many black families and when I was younger we happened to have a family who went to our church, maybe why I was so fascinated... I adored them. It may be easier for very young children to grasp a concept like that, vanilla and chocolate though. It doesn't offend me really but I can see how some might take it that way.

There is a book called Mama Day and it is about black culture mainly. The main character in the book is a black woman and she actually refers to people by food names. Bonbons, vanillas, caramel, chocolate, etc. etc. Even other black people... hence the caramel colored ones, dark chocolates, bonbon. It's very interesting to read.

I dont really have an input on this really. I just hope someday soon, race, size, background wont be such of an issue.

i dont know what we plan to do with trent as for talking about different races. i would hope that it never comes and he sees everyone equal. when i was younger i was the only white girl in my class and it was no big deal. in another school there was only one black person in the whole school. still no big deal. i think as adults we feel that we need to tell our kids the differences instead of just going with the flow.

A unique analogy to different ethnic groups and ice cream.


I realize it is focused on Black (Chocolate) and White (Vanilla) but the little girl was both....not just "Chocolate"

So what would Hispanics be.....Kaulia Ice Cream???

Personally if it were my classroom I would not buy that book. There are other ways to introduce different ethnic groups. Several books or toys display a variety of ethnic groups....with out pointing out the skin color.

As far as ethnic dolls....it is hard to find good ones because the good ones should not be the same just a different color. Each ethnic group has distinct features.

That kind of gives me a weird feeling, hearing people referred to as ice cream colors. Why not just say what they are? My two older brothers are Phillipinno (they were adopted), and I would feel stupid going around calling them "caramel" or "praline pecan," ya know? They would agree with me. That goes for anything - race, disabilities, religion, etc. Say what the person is point-blank, and it shouldn't be an issue. For example, I'm hard-of-hearing, and I appreciate when people acknowledge that fact, not trying to pussy-foot around saying "she has a bit of a hearing problem," or whatever. :D

I don't think it helps a child by describing different cultures/races/ethnicities in terms of ice cream flavors. I feel that by doing so, the child 'may' get the idea that other cultures/races/ethnicities are something to be ashamed of and therefore need to be prettied up.

I'm putting myself into your shoes as a fellow parent. I know it's a touchy subject and the best way to handle it is with honesty and gentleness.

Ah well right now im just cookies and cream i guess! haha i got a tan on the way to vegas.. only on my arms- its hot ;)

Seriously though- what my teacher told me is exactly what ill tell my children. I'll never forget it.

I don't find it offensive AT ALL!
My Dad is Black and my Mom is Filipino/Irish.
I found it totally amusing when my really close friend's 5 yo daughter mentioned the fact that "the chocolate man is washing his car again." The person she was referring to was their new neighbor. Now if she had said "the ****ger is washing his car again," I would not have been so amused.
It's just really amusing what kids come up with ON THEIR OWN.

....and the three black girls ages 1,2, and 4 will not play with the white baby doll. They fight over the 2 black ones. it is already an issue and I have to deal with it now.
ess around

It's funny cuz I'm not sure it really comes down to race being a factor. With my son, he will ONLY play with black cords and plugs...never have I seen him fiddling with a white cord...LOL!!! Just a thought though.

And your son is the most gorgeous boy ever Victoria!

And your son is the most gorgeous boy ever Victoria!
LMAO!!! Thanks a bunch!!! :)

Oh he is! If i ever have a son i want mine to look as cute as yours does!

I think ice cream is a good reference to use because of the fact that children like all kinds of ice cream & it's something they understand. I think we are thinking of it too much like adults. They aren't adults and don't get the sensibilities of race, etc like most adults would. They need something they can understand and relate to at that age.

Regardless of what we would like, they will notice race (just like they'll notice ANYTHING about other people's appearances) and ignoring that people have different skin colors isn't going to help them understand that it's not important to getting to know people.

Todd Parr and Keith Haring books are awesome. they discuss all kinds of colors and types of people to the point of intelligent obsurdity. (ex: 3 arms and blue skin). check it out
http://www.toddparr.com
http://www.haringkids.com

I feel weird about the phrasing also. A book that I love (and bought for my children) is a crayon book. I do not know where it is right now and I do not remember the title. But the book is about a box of crayons that does not get along because they are different colors and then a little girl buys this box of crayons and takes them home to draw a picture. She shows them that the picture would not be pretty if she did not have them all. And all the crayons like eachother for who they are in the end.

I personally am not ok with people calling eachother by those type of names. Not only that but it is hard to teach your child a "word" to describe someone that is not offensive to all people. Depending on where you live people do not like to be refferred to as certain "words" I learned this the hard way moving from Northern to Southern California. Imagine a military child moving from state to state now. I am not ok with any words that implicate a racial reference. If you need to describe someone then using this person has brown skin or white skin or pink skin, etc is ok with me. But I am not ok with other words.

I don’t like the reference. People are people regardless of what race they are ~ and they should be referred to as ‘People’. I don’t like when people have to emphasize if a person was white or black when you are having a discussion…why can’t people say – “This woman ……..” instead of “This white woman…..” or “This black woman…….” The more we focus on the color of a person instead of individuality of a person, racism ~ even subtle ~ will exist. Using substitutes like “Chocolate” and/or “Vanilla” is just like saying ‘the black child’ or ‘the white child’ - singling them out because of their race. Why can’t it just be ‘the child?’

I completely agree with Parkwoodmom. Very well stated.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0679886117/sr=8-2/qid=1156175287/ref=sr_1_2/104-8986433-4687122?ie=UTF8

This is a link to the book I was talking about. It is called: The Crayon Box that Talked I feel it is a great book for this subject.

I think ice cream is a good reference to use because of the fact that children like all kinds of ice cream & it's something they understand. I think we are thinking of it too much like adults. They aren't adults and don't get the sensibilities of race, etc like most adults would. They need something they can understand and relate to at that age.

Regardless of what we would like, they will notice race (just like they'll notice ANYTHING about other people's appearances) and ignoring that people have different skin colors isn't going to help them understand that it's not important to getting to know people.

The problem with kids using those terms is there are a lot of adults who will take it as the parents teaching the child to be racist.

My children don't even notice the difference in skin color and I believe that is because I've never made it an issue good or bad. There is no reason to even discuss skin color. My 4 year old plays with black children, white children, chinese, indian ect and he has never once ever mentioned any of them being a different skin color than himself and he is one of those kids that talks about everything he sees.

The problem with kids using those terms is there are a lot of adults who will take it as the parents teaching the child to be racist.

My children don't even notice the difference in skin color and I believe that is because I've never made it an issue good or bad. There is no reason to even discuss skin color. My 4 year old plays with black children, white children, chinese, indian ect and he has never once ever mentioned any of them being a different skin color than himself and he is one of those kids that talks about everything he sees.

I guess i just think that not discussing it is not realistic. It's there, people look different. Maybe it's different with families that move around a lot and see all sorts of people - but that is not the norm. Also, if children already have a tendency to want to play with dolls that have their same skin color - they have already noticed the difference. No matter what is discussed or not discussed, some day everyone will notice. It's not always a bad thing, it just is.

So they are associating colors and races with flavors? How is that really teaching diversity?

I do not think there is a need to specifically point out to a child that u are teaching them about different races. All this does is make them realize that there is a seperation between races (that should NOT even be happening to begin with). Kids are smart- they figure stuff out on their own. Do not make them feel like they have to alert their parents if they have a "chocolate" friend. Because they have "a friend" plain and simple. I think people focus so much on trying to make it not an issue- that they turn it into one.

I come from an all white town in the middle of farmland- yet my fiance is black and my daughter is mixed (obviously). Just dont turn it into an issue- dont point it out. Have all kinds of books with all kinds of people and all kinds of toys with different races- and just let them play and read whatever. Dont sit down and be like "lets read about hispanic people today". Just have the stuff available to them- and dont make it seem like such a huge deal.

SOrry- if that sounded hateful- but its true. I understand its an issue in the adult world- but ignore it dont fan the flame. Children are born innocent and the only way they realize a difference is when they pick up on it from adults.

I'd love for it to not be an issue but with the 4yo constantly talking about the younger ones are picking it up. I have to do/say something. Ignoring it is not realistic for me.

I guess i just think that not discussing it is not realistic. It's there, people look different. Maybe it's different with families that move around a lot and see all sorts of people - but that is not the norm. Also, if children already have a tendency to want to play with dolls that have their same skin color - they have already noticed the difference. No matter what is discussed or not discussed, some day everyone will notice. It's not always a bad thing, it just is.


It is realistic, though. Children notice the difference between boys and girls and old people and young people. How do you handle that? You just tell them simply- thats just the way they are made or whatever simple explaination u choose to give. You dont go into buying books, explaining in detail, or making a big deal of it. It is what it is- and children accept that. Thats the way race should be. If a child asks- then give them the same simple answer dont focus so much on it. If they see that u seperate people- they will think thats what ur supposed to do, too.

I'd love for it to not be an issue but with the 4yo constantly talking about the younger ones are picking it up. I have to do/say something. Ignoring it is not realistic for me.


Have you talked with the parents about how they feel this should be handled? Differences are good and all children will notice them. My dd did not see a lot of black people until we moved to the Great Lakes area. I never taught her one way or the other about anyone but she none the less still seemed withdrawn at first and she is normally very outgoing. Now she has friends of many colors and backgrounds. Children will notice no matter what it is just a matter of how their noticing is dealt with. I hope what I tried to say made sence.

Have you talked with the parents about how they feel this should be handled? Differences are good and all children will notice them. My dd did not see a lot of black people until we moved to the Great Lakes area. I never taught her one way or the other about anyone but she none the less still seemed withdrawn at first and she is normally very outgoing. Now she has friends of many colors and backgrounds. Children will notice no matter what it is just a matter of how their noticing is dealt with. I hope what I tried to say made sence.


It makes total sense. My ds never acted any different around black people. I know for many kids it is a very scarey moment when they enounter their first big African American man. I can understand how they can be afraid. Many people are afraid of new things and its not bad. Ignoring kids feelings and thoughts and ideas is not a good way to raise well balanced kids.

I'd love for it to not be an issue but with the 4yo constantly talking about the younger ones are picking it up. I have to do/say something. Ignoring it is not realistic for me.

I understand that, I do know there ARE a lot of children who notice the difference and talk about it. I just think teaching them that there is no difference even if the skin is a different color is better and without having to compare race and color to ice cream or what not... I just don't see a need for anyone to make THAT big of a deal about race and color. The ONLY difference between me and a black woman is skin color.... vanilla ice cream and chocolate ice cream have differences besides color.. they are different, taste different ect... and some kids like one more than the other... That's why I think that's a lousy way of explaining it.

I understand that, I do know there ARE a lot of children who notice the difference and talk about it. I just think teaching them that there is no difference even if the skin is a different color is better and without having to compare race and color to ice cream or what not... I just don't see a need for anyone to make THAT big of a deal about race and color. The ONLY difference between and and a black woman is skin color.... vanilla ice cream and chocolate ice cream have differences besides color.. they are different, taste different ect... and some kids like one more than the other... That's why I think that's a lousy way of explaining it.

Very well put.

I understand that, I do know there ARE a lot of children who notice the difference and talk about it. I just think teaching them that there is no difference even if the skin is a different color is better and without having to compare race and color to ice cream or what not... I just don't see a need for anyone to make THAT big of a deal about race and color. The ONLY difference between and and a black woman is skin color.... vanilla ice cream and chocolate ice cream have differences besides color.. they are different, taste different ect... and some kids like one more than the other... That's why I think that's a lousy way of explaining it.


I agree! plus I dont want them going around licking each other :giggle

I agree! plus I dont want them going around licking each other :giggle

lol

I could just see using ice cream as a way of explaining the difference causing other issues like "My mom is vanilla and vanilla is better" or visa versa.

A friend of my aunt told my aunts daughter when she was 2 that black people are only dark because god cooked them longer lol she saw a very dark black man in the grocery store after that and said "look mommy, god left him in the over a LONG time" it was kind of funny.. but explaining things that way I think confuse kids more than make them understand lol.

Everyone bleeds the same.

Did you see my post about the box of crayons? I like that it talks about colors and not people at all.

Did you see my post about the box of crayons? I like that it talks about colors and not people at all.

I thnk that's a better idea than the ice cream thing in that Zoe book lol.


Sometimes I think that things like that kids wont really associate with skin color though.

Yes and no. Kids cannot associate it with race. But then the book can be used as a tool. When the older child says my skin is _____ and yours is ____ the child can then be told "isn't it nice. We are like the box of crayons in that book. We all make the world pretty" or something like that.

Did you see my post about the box of crayons? I like that it talks about colors and not people at all.

I did and actually I've either seen that in a cartoon format on tv or I've read that book but the cover did not look familiar :dunno


I love books that have hidden meaning. I have a few on divorce and a parent in prison and they never mention those words. They are just about these kids that do what they do. They're wonderful!

I did and actually I've either seen that in a cartoon format on tv or I've read that book but the cover did not look familiar :dunno


Publishers change covers a lot to get more sales and to make an older book look newer than it really is.;)

i've never brought up race in my preschool classroom. my 12 kids are of five different races/ethnicities. instead, we celebrate holidays from around the world whenever they come up (& believe me it's plenty often), even if there's no one in my class who actually celebrates that day. i believe it goes beyond the race/ethnicity topics of this country & teaches worldwide diversity & history. & children always love a party. having fun is always a good way to learn & teach. from what i've seen, that's the way good grade schools will do it as well. what we teach & the way it's taught (any topic) will stick with them no matter what age they learn it. the sooner the better.

Kate- I agree, I think that's a great way to teach cultural understanding and appreciation.

interesting way to put it
My kids don't notice it either

interesting way to put it
My kids don't notice it either

I think living here in Va does it!