I dont accept kids into my daycare that are not current on their vaccines. I've never had to turn anyone down for this reason but since so many are against it, it is bound to come up eventually.

Is this discrimination? or just how I choose to run my private business?

I dont accept kids into my daycare that are not current on their vaccines. I've never had to turn anyone down for this reason but since so many are against it, it is bound to come up eventually.

Is this discrimination? or just how I choose to run my private business?
I *personally* do not think it is discrimination because I *personally* would not let my child go to a facility with unvaxed kids if I could help it. Its a health issue. (Sorry..no offense to anyone. Thats just my personal choice *shrug*) I wasnt allowed to be around sick kids I didnt know when pregnant with my son due to my rubella shot not taking as a kid. So I was told to avoid them. Was it discrimination? No..It was for the health of my unborn child.... BUT...I dunno what you can and cannot ask parents and what info they have the right to not tell you. I guess in some ways it can be viewed as discrimination...But it also can be viewed as a health issue. So I am not sure. Good question tho!

I would say no. They aren't able to go to school without all of there shots.

I don't think so. I'd think that we would be able to set our own rules as far as that goes. I don't plan on taking in kids needing extra special care such as someone who needs medication all day long, a heavier kid in a wheelchair that I'd have to carry to the bathroom, or someone who is bipolar. I think I should have the right to make that decision.

I don't feel it's discrimination. It's a public health issue imo. You don't want you, your children or the daycare children to become ill with something that could have been prevented if the child had been vaccinated.

I'm actually hoping someone will post their sources for not vaccinating. I have looked over the 'net quite a bit trying to find something that I could use to defend those who don't vax, and I can't find anything. Everything I've found on anti-vax'ing seems to derive from a fear of what's in the vaccine. I have yet to find a research paper that answers my question: What's worse, the vaccine or the plague?

If you have a reliable datasource, I'd love to read it. This debate will always niggle at my thoughts because I've never, ever once thought about what's in that syringe when I'm getting my shot. And for me, that's a HUGE deal to have missed something THAT obvious.

I don't feel it's discrimination at all. I am the same as you, when it comes to my daycare as well. It is for the well being of all the other kids. I wouldn't let my own children in a daycare home or center where a child in their class isn't vaccinated, but that is JMO.

I think it is just good safety/health practices!

I'm actually hoping someone will post their sources for not vaccinating. I have looked over the 'net quite a bit trying to find something that I could use to defend those who don't vax, and I can't find anything. Everything I've found on anti-vax'ing seems to derive from a fear of what's in the vaccine. I have yet to find a research paper that answers my question: What's worse, the vaccine or the plague?

If you have a reliable datasource, I'd love to read it. This debate will always niggle at my thoughts because I've never, ever once thought about what's in that syringe when I'm getting my shot. And for me, that's a HUGE deal to have missed something THAT obvious.

When Bill comes home tonight, I will have him answer your question, since he is a Preventive Medicine Technician, and he is very well educated on vaccines, their purposes and so on. ;)

Are you at all funded by the state or Gov't? If not, then no it couldnt be used by some sue happy idiot as a discrimination suit. Thats not to say someone might not try it... they just wouldnt win, as its a private daycare.

I havent found any compelling evidence either. However, I do know parents who are pissed because the swear MMR gave their child autism. I think the risk is bigger to not vaccinate and take the chances of getting the disease. Too many people are opting out because "everyone else" is vaccinated and they dont feel they need to worry about getting the disease, but the toxins in in the vax is so dangerous. I have a feeling these parents are going to be kicking themselves in the ass in the near future......

Trish it probably is our choice. My contract has been approved and it states children must be current with WA state law. I have to keep a copy of the childs shot records on file. I was wondering if non-vaccinaters think its discrimination more than asking if was I was doing was ok. I know I CAN do it, but wanted to find out opinions ;)

Apryl, I receive subsidy from the Navy.

:dunno

I know George doesnt go to daycare... so for us it isnt an issue.

Im sure at some point in time someone will wind up getting sued by someone looking for easy money :dunno. I just think its my choice to delay vaccinations and its your choice to accept kids that are delayed (or not vaccinated at all) or not accept them.

By the time George starts school, he will be up to date on his vaccinations, minus the chicken pox one.

Oh, I see.

well i know that there are forms to fill out saying that my child will not be vax and there is nothing you (meaning school/daycare officials) can do about. i feel that it is unfair that you would not want my cute little angel (;) ) but i wont take him somewhere he is not welcome. meaning daycare. he will still go to school though

Hatetank~give me a few minutes and i will get you those websites.

here are some websites that MDC (www.mothering.com)offer. it is a great website to get info from mothers that do not vax at all.

http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.html
http://vaers.hhs.gov/vaers.htm
http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html
http://www.acnem.org/journal/23-2_september_2004/vaccines_and_mercury.htm

let me know if this answers your questions. if you have a direct question, i can get a direct answer for ya!:D

well i know that there are forms to fill out saying that my child will not be vax and there is nothing you (meaning school/daycare officials) can do about. i feel that it is unfair that you would not want my cute little angel (;) ) but i wont take him somewhere he is not welcome. meaning daycare. he will still go to school though

Hatetank~give me a few minutes and i will get you those websites.

:agree

I was reading the CDC (Center for Disease Control) site and even if you are against the vaccines for your own personal reason, please keep in mind that it is a very risky move, and wether you know it or not, you are putting your child at risk.

Read this link, and it may not change your mind completely, but hopefully it will make you think long and hard..
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/fs/gen/WhatIfStop.htm

Too many people are opting out because "everyone else" is vaccinated and they dont feel they need to worry about getting the disease, but the toxins in in the vax is so dangerous.

are you saying that is how non-vaxers feel or that you believe that the toxins are dangerous?


I have a feeling these parents are going to be kicking themselves in the ass in the near future......



Funny. i just hope that parents that vax arent kicking themselves in the near future.

Funny. i just hope that parents that vax arent kicking themselves in the near future.

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it Jill?

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it Jill?


lets not get personal now Sarah. how is my statement "ignorant" but what april said is fine and dandy? that is my opinion, that is how i am going to raise my child.

All I have to say is, thanks to vaccines people as a whole are living longer and things like small pox arent a widespread epidemic.

Ok, let me ask you a hypothetical question, if I may...

Say something happens to your son, lets say he is 5 years old and is barefoot walking around and playing outside. OOPS..he steps on a rusty nail or a rusty anything for that matter or he gets bit by a stray dog? You take him to the ER and the doctor asks you if he is up to date on his shots. What are you going to say or do?? Also, if the doctor tells you that he needs a tetnus ASAP, are you going to say no and pray to god he doesn't get a life threatening infection??? I am really curious, because even though I do respect what you are trying to say, IMO you are also not looking at the long term affects and "what could" happen to your son. Granted you are trying to protect him, but you could also be harming him in many ways. KWIM??

Ok, let me ask you a hypothetical question, if I may...

Say something happens to your son, lets say he is 5 years old and is barefoot walking around and playing outside. OOPS..he steps on a rusty nail or a rusty anything for that matter or he gets bit by a stray dog? You take him to the ER and the doctor asks you if he is up to date on his shots. What are you going to say or do?? Also, if the doctor tells you that he needs a tetnus ASAP, are you going to say no and pray to god he doesn't get a life threatening infection??? I am really curious, because even though I do respect what you are trying to say, IMO you are also not looking at the long term affects and "what could" happen to your son. Granted you are trying to protect him, but you could also be harming him in many ways. KWIM??


i will tell the doctor that he had not gotten his shots. nothing to hide. 5 years down the road if he needs a tetnus because of a rusty nail then he will get one. why give someone something now if not needed? will you get a birdflu shot if it comes out? i believe that pumping my son with chemicals and toxins is not healthy. i can not agree with giving my son something that has aborted fetal cells in it. I believe that giving him vaccinations COULD harm him in the long run. JMO

Well, I still disagree with you 100%, but you're his mother and whether you want to believe it or not, it will come back to bite you in the ass one day, by not having him vaccinated, but again it is my opinion ;)

Now I have another question for you that does tie into this, do you support stem cell research?

I don't think that you are wrong in any shape or form to deny child care to anyone who does not vaccinate. I do know that on almost all military installations with a daycare that it is required if you want your child to attend. I personally would feel unsafe having and unvaccinated child in my childrens daycare or school...but those are just my personal feelings. We all have our own way of doing things and I would never look down on or be judgemental of someone who choose to do things differently than me. I think you take a 50/50 chance either way when it comes to vacc. or not vacc. I chose to vacc and will never regret doing that!

My 3 boys have ALL thier shots, on time at that. They are smart, healthy, happy little boys. I have them protected against something BEFORE it happens. So if they step on a rusty nail, I'm not going to have to worry too much. But I'm also the bad mommy who had thier foreskin cut off, fed them formula, feed them storebought baby food, have them sleep in thier own bed and let them cry once in a while.... So I do all the bad things to my kids I guess lol

Now I have another question for you that does tie into this, do you support stem cell research?


i have not done enough research on this to have an "educated" opinion. anything done on embroys or abort cells does not give me a good feeling though.:shrug

My 3 boys have ALL thier shots, on time at that. They are smart, healthy, happy little boys. I have them protected against something BEFORE it happens. So if they step on a rusty nail, I'm not going to have to worry too much. But I'm also the bad mommy who had thier foreskin cut off, fed them formula, feed them storebought baby food, have them sleep in thier own bed and let them cry once in a while.... So I do all the bad things to my kids I guess lol

You too Sarah!?! I thought I was the bad mommy!

People who don't want to vaccinate should also look at Hep B. Look at how easy it is to contract and look at the terrible things it does to your body. My boys are vaccinated against it and that makes me feel better.

I personally think Hep A is a great vaccine to have to....

People who don't want to vaccinate should also look at Hep B. Look at how easy it is to contract and look at the terrible things it does to your body. My boys are vaccinated against it and that makes me feel better.


i have looked into also. thank you

I did research before I delayed vaccinations.

Death is permanent. Ive seen it happen, and yes the cause of death on the death certificate was due to a reaction to the DTP (not the new DTaP) shot. After losing a child to something non-related to vaccinations, it makes you look at everything in life, it made me ask more questions, and demand better answers than I had been previously given. Death from vaccinations hit too close to home for my personal comfort. Daycare isnt an issue for us. It will never be an issue for us. :dunno

How do you all feel about a child with AIDS in the same classroom as your children? While vaccines have to be disclosed to the schools *whether you have them or not* HIV, and AIDS do not.

I did research before I delayed vaccinations.

Death is permanent. Ive seen it happen, and yes the cause of death on the death certificate was due to a reaction to the DTP (not the new DTaP) shot. After losing a child to something non-related to vaccinations, it makes you look at everything in life, it made me ask more questions, and demand better answers than I had been previously given. Death from vaccinations hit too close to home for my personal comfort. Daycare isnt an issue for us. It will never be an issue for us. :dunno

How do you all feel about a child with AIDS in the same classroom as your children? While vaccines have to be disclosed to the schools *whether you have them or not* HIV, and AIDS do not.

They wont spread AIDS by sharing a drink.

I did research before I delayed vaccinations.

Death is permanent. Ive seen it happen, and yes the cause of death on the death certificate was due to a reaction to the DTP (not the new DTaP) shot. After losing a child to something non-related to vaccinations, it makes you look at everything in life, it made me ask more questions, and demand better answers than I had been previously given. Death from vaccinations hit too close to home for my personal comfort. Daycare isnt an issue for us. It will never be an issue for us. :dunno

How do you all feel about a child with AIDS in the same classroom as your children? While vaccines have to be disclosed to the schools *whether you have them or not* HIV, and AIDS do not.
To me, HIV/AIDS is a bit different. My son cannot catch it by close contact (like coughing, sharing a drink etc) But my son CAN catch things that a non-vaccinated child catches. Especially if he hasn't had his boosters or whatever. When my rubella shot didnt take it wasn;t that the vaccine was bad. It was that in 1975 they didnt know a booster was needed with it. They do now...

As far as what is IN vaccines. People have a longer life span then those before vaccines. So obviously, to me, that means the benefits outweigh the risks. I can understand delaying vaccines. I had thought about it myself. I can also understand declining ones such as chicken pox (I didnt deny it but thats because my Dr explained that 3 years ago he woulda said yes deny it. but now with so many kids having it the rate of exposre is less and less and more kids are getting it older and older and I KNOW from expierence how awful and bad it can be if you catch it older)

It's obviously gonna be one of those personal choice issues. I dont understand it. And I never will. I have read thru the sites before and they are all so 1 sided. But I did my research. And I still stand by what I said. I would not enter my child into a daycare etc with non-vaccinated kids if I had the choice.... To me it isnt discrimination. Its me looking out for my child and making sure he doesnt catch something that should be prevented. Again I dont mean to offend. Its just how I feel....And before people say "Well your child is vaxed whats the problem" Again..What if we ALL stopped vaxing? Kids not vaxed do not get as sick because of those who are vaxed. SHould we all stop and simple controlable diseases would make a huge comeback.... Maybe someday I will change my mind..But I dunno. As of now thats how I feel...

G'luck April :) Do what you feel is right for your business!!

To me, HIV/AIDS is a bit different. My son cannot catch it by close contact (like coughing, sharing a drink etc) But my son CAN catch things that a non-vaccinated child catches. Especially if he hasn't had his boosters or whatever. When my rubella shot didnt take it wasn;t that the vaccine was bad. It was that in 1975 they didnt know a booster was needed with it. They do now...

As far as what is IN vaccines. People have a longer life span then those before vaccines. So obviously, to me, that means the benefits outweigh the risks. I can understand delaying vaccines. I had thought about it myself. I can also understand declining ones such as chicken pox (I didnt deny it but thats because my Dr explained that 3 years ago he woulda said yes deny it. but now with so many kids having it the rate of exposre is less and less and more kids are getting it older and older and I KNOW from expierence how awful and bad it can be if you catch it older)

It's obviously gonna be one of those personal choice issues. I dont understand it. And I never will. I have read thru the sites before and they are all so 1 sided. But I did my research. And I still stand by what I said. I would not enter my child into a daycare etc with non-vaccinated kids if I had the choice.... To me it isnt discrimination. Its me looking out for my child and making sure he doesnt catch something that should be prevented. Again I dont mean to offend. Its just how I feel....And before people say "Well your child is vaxed whats the problem" Again..What if we ALL stopped vaxing? Kids not vaxed do not get as sick because of those who are vaxed. SHould we all stop and simple controlable diseases would make a huge comeback.... Maybe someday I will change my mind..But I dunno. As of now thats how I feel...

G'luck April :) Do what you feel is right for your business!!


I feel the same way.

Here are some articles that discuss reasons why a parents chooses not to vaccinate and compares parental conceptions to actual risks:

Factors underlying suboptimal childhood immunisation (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD4-4KD5844-3&_user=3029163&_coverDate=07%2F13%2F2006&_alid=439598627&_rdoc=5&_fmt=full&_orig=search&_cdi=5188&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000010259&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=3029163&md5=1713af92c7eca81f86c3f8af2ab97ac8) • REVIEW ARTICLE
Vaccine, In Press, Corrected Proof, Available online 13 July 2006,
Sarah Tickner, Patrick J. Leman and Alison Woodcock

Parental decision-making in childhood vaccination (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD4-4JCCHKV-5&_user=3029163&_coverDate=05%2F08%2F2006&_alid=439598627&_rdoc=8&_fmt=full&_orig=search&_cdi=5188&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000010259&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=3029163&md5=225a775bef4911bd9b1e35a5ee31b376) • REVIEW ARTICLE
Vaccine, Volume 24, Issue 19, 8 May 2006, Pages 4041-4046
Lucy Serpell and John Green

And here is an unbiased article reviewing the MMR jab:

Does the MMR triple vaccine cause autism? (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7MFB-4DS7HY1-3&_user=3029163&_coverDate=10%2F01%2F2004&_alid=439598627&_rdoc=27&_fmt=full&_orig=search&_cdi=23254&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000010259&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=3029163&md5=748f7b0d09c89e6abc01e0f4edaef2d7) • DISCUSSION
Evidence-Based Healthcare and Public health, Volume 8, Issue 5, October 2004, Pages 239-245
N. Sengupta, H. Bedford, D. Elliman and R. Booy

And here is a very interesting article that describes how parental concerns about the MMR arose and why they are still present:

Communicating science to the public: MMR vaccine and autism (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD4-497H3XH-1&_user=3029163&_coverDate=12%2F08%2F2003&_alid=439598627&_rdoc=35&_fmt=full&_orig=search&_cdi=5188&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000010259&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=3029163&md5=56c340dbb92ede1e05375cd7959fabd6) • REVIEW ARTICLE
Vaccine, Volume 22, Issue 1, 8 December 2003, Pages 1-6
Paul A. Offit and Susan E. Coffin

If you have any trouble reading them pm me and I'll c+p them into an email- I have a feeling that some articles require a password...

as a private business you can establish your own rules. its sort of like why can private schools take only the kids they choose that meet their requirements. its not discrimination its for your health and the health of the other children whose parents expect you to keep their children safe.

people will say that the stuff that's in vacs and the side effects are bad and i don't don't that with some people they can be but its just like getting on birth control or an antibiotic the benefits outweigh the risks imo.

Here are some articles that discuss reasons why a parents chooses not to vaccinate and compares parental conceptions to actual risks:

Factors underlying suboptimal childhood immunisation (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD4-4KD5844-3&_user=3029163&_coverDate=07%2F13%2F2006&_alid=439598627&_rdoc=5&_fmt=full&_orig=search&_cdi=5188&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000010259&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=3029163&md5=1713af92c7eca81f86c3f8af2ab97ac8) • REVIEW ARTICLE
Vaccine, In Press, Corrected Proof, Available online 13 July 2006,
Sarah Tickner, Patrick J. Leman and Alison Woodcock

Parental decision-making in childhood vaccination (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD4-4JCCHKV-5&_user=3029163&_coverDate=05%2F08%2F2006&_alid=439598627&_rdoc=8&_fmt=full&_orig=search&_cdi=5188&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000010259&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=3029163&md5=225a775bef4911bd9b1e35a5ee31b376) • REVIEW ARTICLE
Vaccine, Volume 24, Issue 19, 8 May 2006, Pages 4041-4046
Lucy Serpell and John Green

And here is an unbiased article reviewing the MMR jab:

Does the MMR triple vaccine cause autism? (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7MFB-4DS7HY1-3&_user=3029163&_coverDate=10%2F01%2F2004&_alid=439598627&_rdoc=27&_fmt=full&_orig=search&_cdi=23254&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000010259&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=3029163&md5=748f7b0d09c89e6abc01e0f4edaef2d7) • DISCUSSION
Evidence-Based Healthcare and Public health, Volume 8, Issue 5, October 2004, Pages 239-245
N. Sengupta, H. Bedford, D. Elliman and R. Booy

And here is a very interesting article that describes how parental concerns about the MMR arose and why they are still present:

Communicating science to the public: MMR vaccine and autism (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD4-497H3XH-1&_user=3029163&_coverDate=12%2F08%2F2003&_alid=439598627&_rdoc=35&_fmt=full&_orig=search&_cdi=5188&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000010259&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=3029163&md5=56c340dbb92ede1e05375cd7959fabd6) • REVIEW ARTICLE
Vaccine, Volume 22, Issue 1, 8 December 2003, Pages 1-6
Paul A. Offit and Susan E. Coffin

If you have any trouble reading them pm me and I'll c+p them into an email- I have a feeling that some articles require a password...


none of the sites were working. would you mind either pm and emailing me the info? thanks so much!:D

Shared saliva from a drink and a cut in the mouth is all it takes for HIV/AIDS to pass from one person to another... or has that canged? :thinking

A hole in your child's mouth from a lost tooth, is an open porthole for germs.

Shared saliva from a drink and a cut in the mouth is all it takes for HIV/AIDS to pass from one person to another... or has that canged? :thinking

A hole in your child's mouth from a lost tooth, is an open porthole for germs.


The HIV/Aids virus would need to hit those areas immediatley...the virus does not linger on a straw or side of a cup...it is a bloodborne disease not airborne...and not only is a lost tooth a porthole for germs...the whole oral cavity as well as any orifice is a porthole..but only for airborne diseases

How is HIV not transmitted?

HIV is not an easy virus to pass from one person to another. It is not transmitted through food or air (for instance, by coughing or sneezing). There has never been a case where a person was infected by a household member, relative, co-worker, or friend through casual or everyday contact such as sharing eating utensils or bathroom facilities, or through hugging or kissing. (Most scientists agree that while HIV transmission through deep or prolonged "French" kissing may be possible, it would be extremely unlikely.) Here in the U.S., screening the blood supply for HIV has virtually eliminated the risk of infection through blood transfusions (and you cannot get HIV from giving blood at a blood bank or other established blood collection center). Sweat, tears, vomit, feces, and urine do contain HIV, but have not been reported to transmit the disease (apart from two cases involving transmission from fecal matter via cut skin). Mosquitoes, fleas, and other insects do not transmit HIV.

The HIV/Aids virus would need to hit those areas immediatley...the virus does not linger on a straw or side of a cup...it is a bloodborne disease not airborne...and not only is a lost tooth a porthole for germs...the whole oral cavity as well as any orifice is a porthole..but only for airborne diseases

How is HIV not transmitted?

HIV is not an easy virus to pass from one person to another. It is not transmitted through food or air (for instance, by coughing or sneezing). There has never been a case where a person was infected by a household member, relative, co-worker, or friend through casual or everyday contact such as sharing eating utensils or bathroom facilities, or through hugging or kissing. (Most scientists agree that while HIV transmission through deep or prolonged "French" kissing may be possible, it would be extremely unlikely.) Here in the U.S., screening the blood supply for HIV has virtually eliminated the risk of infection through blood transfusions (and you cannot get HIV from giving blood at a blood bank or other established blood collection center). Sweat, tears, vomit, feces, and urine do contain HIV, but have not been reported to transmit the disease (apart from two cases involving transmission from fecal matter via cut skin). Mosquitoes, fleas, and other insects do not transmit HIV.
This is what I have always read and heard as well....

I also want to add that I have treated several HIV positive patients as a dental assistant...if it could be gotten by saliva then I would have it 10x's over

I also want to add that I have treated several HIV positive patients as a dental assistant...if it could be gotten by saliva then I would have it 10x's over


if you wear gloves then you dont have direct contact with the disease.

if you wear gloves then you dont have direct contact with the disease.


can't cover every inch of your body and even if you wear glasses airborne stuff can still get around them....I was just talking about saliva and HIV....not anything else!! I always wear gloves, mask and glasses

I'm Bill, Sarah's husband. I both help direct immunization programs and give vaccinations working in the Public Heath field. Vaccinations are safe. Really. Common medications such as Aspirin, and penicillin, and things like beestings kill more children every year than immunizations do! The #1 killer of children in the world is mosquitoes. Diseases caused by mosquitoes such as Yellow Fever are prevented by immunizations. Poor sanitation (everything dirty) also kills kids and adults. This includes Typhoid, Hepatitis, Diptheria, etc...These diseases are all present in America, and are prevented by immunizations. Because everyone is immunized, you never hear about these diseases in the US anymore. You hear about it in 3rd World nations because they don't get immunized. It's heartbreaking when you see it in person. Remember FDR? He went swimming one day and caught polio. He was confined to leg braces and wheelchairs his entire life. He was lucky, most polio victims are children, and they end up spending their short lives in Iron Lungs. Polio is still present in the US, but has been put to a standstill because of immunizations. Americans don't have to worry about Tetanus everytime they touch a rusty object now thanks to that immunization. I could go on all day. The above diseases are much worse than the chance (rare) vaccination reaction.
Then there is the legal side: Most public school districts will not permit a child into their school unless they are caught up on shots. You need a VALID excuse to be ommited. Then if your child does catch a disease prevented by an immunization--one they never got...some states can go as far as filing child abuse charges against the parents. The point I'm getting at, is that there are far more positives to immunizations than negatives. Oh, and aborted fetuses in immunization sera is an urban legend, with most sources either being biased or having an unspoken agenda against immunizations. While there is concern about the connection between Autism and immunizations--you should read about what cell phone towers, radar guns, microwaves, powerlines, and everything else MAY do to you and your kids. Everything gets you at the end!:ohno

I'm Bill, Sarah's husband. I both help direct immunization programs and give vaccinations working in the Public Heath field. Vaccinations are safe. Really. Common medications such as Aspirin, and penicillin, and things like beestings kill more children every year than immunizations do! The #1 killer of children in the world is mosquitoes. Diseases caused by mosquitoes such as Yellow Fever are prevented by immunizations. Poor sanitation (everything dirty) also kills kids and adults. This includes Typhoid, Hepatitis, Diptheria, etc...These diseases are all present in America, and are prevented by immunizations. Because everyone is immunized, you never hear about these diseases in the US anymore. You hear about it in 3rd World nations because they don't get immunized. It's heartbreaking when you see it in person. Remember FDR? He went swimming one day and caught polio. He was confined to leg braces and wheelchairs his entire life. He was lucky, most polio victims are children, and they end up spending their short lives in Iron Lungs. Polio is still present in the US, but has been put to a standstill because of immunizations. Americans don't have to worry about Tetanus everytime they touch a rusty object now thanks to that immunization. I could go on all day. The above diseases are much worse than the chance (rare) vaccination reaction.
Then there is the legal side: Most public school districts will not permit a child into their school unless they are caught up on shots. You need a VALID excuse to be ommited. Then if your child does catch a disease prevented by an immunization--one they never got...some states can go as far as filing child abuse charges against the parents. The point I'm getting at, is that there are far more positives to immunizations than negatives. Oh, and aborted fetuses in immunization sera is an urban legend, with most sources either being biased or having an unspoken agenda against immunizations. While there is concern about the connection between Autism and immunizations--you should read about what cell phone towers, radar guns, microwaves, powerlines, and everything else MAY do to you and your kids. Everything gets you at the end!:ohno

Very well said!

I'm Bill, Sarah's husband. I both help direct immunization programs and give vaccinations working in the Public Heath field. Vaccinations are safe. Really. Common medications such as Aspirin, and penicillin, and things like beestings kill more children every year than immunizations do! The #1 killer of children in the world is mosquitoes. Diseases caused by mosquitoes such as Yellow Fever are prevented by immunizations. Poor sanitation (everything dirty) also kills kids and adults. This includes Typhoid, Hepatitis, Diptheria, etc...These diseases are all present in America, and are prevented by immunizations. Because everyone is immunized, you never hear about these diseases in the US anymore. You hear about it in 3rd World nations because they don't get immunized. It's heartbreaking when you see it in person. Remember FDR? He went swimming one day and caught polio. He was confined to leg braces and wheelchairs his entire life. He was lucky, most polio victims are children, and they end up spending their short lives in Iron Lungs. Polio is still present in the US, but has been put to a standstill because of immunizations. Americans don't have to worry about Tetanus everytime they touch a rusty object now thanks to that immunization. I could go on all day. The above diseases are much worse than the chance (rare) vaccination reaction.
Then there is the legal side: Most public school districts will not permit a child into their school unless they are caught up on shots. You need a VALID excuse to be ommited. Then if your child does catch a disease prevented by an immunization--one they never got...some states can go as far as filing child abuse charges against the parents. The point I'm getting at, is that there are far more positives to immunizations than negatives. Oh, and aborted fetuses in immunization sera is an urban legend, with most sources either being biased or having an unspoken agenda against immunizations. While there is concern about the connection between Autism and immunizations--you should read about what cell phone towers, radar guns, microwaves, powerlines, and everything else MAY do to you and your kids. Everything gets you at the end!:ohno

my son will go to any public school withour his vax. he will have an exemption from his doctor that validates our personal beliefs. Thank you for the information

I completely agree with Bill's post, and it is heartbreaking to see. A large part of my family are from a place where immunizations are not routine, and it's common for children to have typhoid, polio, dengue fever and other unpleasant illnesses. I can't even begin to describe how nasty these diseases are. I'm sure that given the choice, they would choose immunization.


Also, approx. 80% of a population needs to be immunized in order for the community to have protection against a particular disease. When people choose not to immunize they are not just making a personal choice - it affects everyone.

both my kids have all the vax. required for their age. Cory even has the chicken pox and hep A. I will take no chances with my kids lives like that. I did want to delay Corys just because I didn't want deadly desease injected into my tiny baby but the hospital did it before even asking me so I just went ahead and kept up on it. My kids are protected. I feel being lax on other things is fine but not this.

April I think its up to you. I feel that since my kids are protected it would not harm them to be around kids who arent. I think the kids who aren't vax. would be the ones in danger.

my son will go to any public school withour his vax. he will have an exemption from his doctor that validates our personal beliefs. Thank you for the information


FYI...if you are stationed ever in a county/city that requires a Hep A vaccine like where I am in Texas...then your child will not be allowed into a school or daycare without it...they may let some slide, but did much research on this and this is not one that many let slide at all.

FYI...if you are stationed ever in a county/city that requires a Hep A vaccine like where I am in Texas...then your child will not be allowed into a school or daycare without it...they may let some slide, but did much research on this and this is not one that many let slide at all.


EXACTLY!!! The only reason I could see where it could slide is if the child had cancer or his/her immune system is so weak, that a vax could kill that child. Also, in cases like that, I don't think the parent would risk putting their child in a public school.

Jill, you have to realize that at one point or another your son WILL need to receive a vaccine. Like Judy mentioned, more than likely the Hep A. Good luck finding a school that will be very liberal when it comes to letting your son in not vaccinated. Also, god forbid anything were to happen to him and he did catch a disease that could have been prevented by a vaccine, you will have to live with the guilt. Also, don't become "sue happy" and try to sue someone over your ignorance.

FYI...if you are stationed ever in a county/city that requires a Hep A vaccine like where I am in Texas...then your child will not be allowed into a school or daycare without it...they may let some slide, but did much research on this and this is not one that many let slide at all.


here is link for texas laws.........non-vax kids are allow in the schools http://www.vaccineinfo.net/exemptions/index.shtml

here is link for texas laws.........non-vax kids are allow in the schools http://www.vaccineinfo.net/exemptions/index.shtml

But not without Hep A in certain areas!!! I already checked that site out for Texas...first!!

i am officially done with this discussion. April sorry it completely went the other direction from you post. partially my fault. my son along with MANY other children are going to atten public schools with out vaccinations. just get use to it. what i do with my child is my own personal opinion and it is far from ignorant. this whole time i never bashed anyone for vax'ing their children. i present facts that back up my stand. i am sick of moms not allow to take a stand here without getting jumped on. i.e. vax, BF, and circumcision. we are called unfit, uneducated, and ignorant and it is not right. you do what you want with your kids and i will with my. peace out!:D

I hope you never move here because they DO require you to be immunized. I really hope your child never catches anything serious Jill, I really do. Yes there is a risk to being immunized but hey, there is a risk just being alive.

Just for everyone's info, you can get the exemptions in all 50 states. Its not common, the schools will tell you YOU HAVE to vaccinate, but when you request the exemption forms, they are available, whether it be religious reasons, or physician approved. They also do not have to disclose to the parents of others in their classrooms that the children are there without vaccinations. Truth be told, there are probably children in your children's schools right now who have not recieved ANY vaccinations.

Its one thing to debate issues, its another to be nasty about it. :dunno

I hope you never move here because they DO require you to be immunized. I really hope your child never catches anything serious Jill, I really do. Yes there is a risk to being immunized but hey, there is a risk just being alive.

Amen to that!

Well, since my kids are vaccinated I guess I'm not too concerned about them being around kids who aren't, since I know mine are protected.

It still amazes me that something as simple and basic as immunization can become such a heated debate. At least as far as everyones personal right to chose to do according with what they believe to be the correct way to raise their child. Once again I will say that after growing up in a country where there is no mandatory vaccination and where you would never be able to find out if the other children in your child's class are or are not vaccinated I am surprised to see how important it is here in the States. I can understand it in cases where it might be a question of life and death but why the majority gets in such an uproar about other parents deciding not to vaccinate is not understandable to me. The US is supposedly a country of so much personal freedom, yet in some topics I can see that there is a lot less freedom to chose than you would think.

It still amazes me that something as simple and basic as immunization can become such a heated debate.....but why the majority gets in such an uproar about other parents deciding not to vaccinate is not understandable to me. The US is supposedly a country of so much personal freedom, yet in some topics I can see that there is a lot less freedom to chose than you would think.

I'm going to quote Sonia/Zelda780 since she said better than I can.

"Also, approx. 80% of a population needs to be immunized in order for the community to have protection against a particular disease. When people choose not to immunize they are not just making a personal choice - it affects everyone."

I believe this is why it is such a heated topic. When there is a possiblity that it is no longer just being about someone's own child and begins affecting someone else's then it is a problem and going to cause an uproar so to speak.

I'm going to quote Sonia/Zelda780 since she said better than I can.

"Also, approx. 80% of a population needs to be immunized in order for the community to have protection against a particular disease. When people choose not to immunize they are not just making a personal choice - it affects everyone."

I believe this is why it is such a heated topic. When there is a possiblity that it is no longer just being about someone's own child and begins affecting someone else's then it is a problem and going to cause an uproar so to speak.
I totally agree. The problem with these debates are 2 things. 1 is parenting is very personal. No one wants to be told they are doing something wrong. We all parent differently. But vaxing "can" affect the general population. If everyone quit vaxing we'd have epidemics back on our hands. Things that were once controlled. I think THATS why it gets so heated. As for other parenting debates, I think it is like I said, it is very personal and no one likes to be told they are wrong. :shrug

I don't think it would be discrimination... You have the right to refuse service for whatever circumstances you choose.

Personally I wouldn't like having an unvaxed child around my children

I dont think its discrimination, but i believe that most states think it is.

i am officially done with this discussion. April sorry it completely went the other direction from you post. partially my fault. my son along with MANY other children are going to atten public schools with out vaccinations. just get use to it. what i do with my child is my own personal opinion and it is far from ignorant. this whole time i never bashed anyone for vax'ing their children. i present facts that back up my stand. i am sick of moms not allow to take a stand here without getting jumped on. i.e. vax, BF, and circumcision. we are called unfit, uneducated, and ignorant and it is not right. you do what you want with your kids and i will with my. peace out!:D
Well...I for one dont mean to insult you. But I know I get irritated every single time I see your lil blinkie saying "dont mess with perfection..say no to circumsision..." That to me implys you are saying my son is no longer perfect ;) So in a sense everytime I read that I feel you are saying I am unfit. So both sides of the spectrum I think do feel they are getting bashed, saying they are unfit etc. When in essence we all are trying to do whats best for our kids :shrug

They also do not have to disclose to the parents of others in their classrooms that the children are there without vaccinations. Truth be told, there are probably children in your children's schools right now who have not recieved ANY vaccinations.

We just found out what class Gabe is going to be in. That was the first thing I asked and I was told. Not who, but if there was an unvaxed child in the class. there was, and i had him switched to a class that all the kids are vaxed.

glad I am not the only that gets annoyed with the blinkie. I worked in nursing homes for years and researched circ and I def. did/will circ any boys I may have.

glad I am not the only that gets annoyed with the blinkie. I worked in nursing homes for years and researched circ and I def. did/will circ any boys I may have.

:yes some of the other ones too get on my nerves. not meaning to attack personally but they go against how i believe a child shoudl be raised. i don't have children yet but when i do i plan on using hte methods that i think will work best

Well...I for one dont mean to insult you. But I know I get irritated every single time I see your lil blinkie saying "dont mess with perfection..say no to circumsision..." That to me implys you are saying my son is no longer perfect ;) So in a sense everytime I read that I feel you are saying I am unfit. So both sides of the spectrum I think do feel they are getting bashed, saying they are unfit etc. When in essence we all are trying to do whats best for our kids :shrug

I agree with you on this one! That is why I made mention of it in one of my responses. My boys are still perfect and they have been circumsized.

I agree with you on this one! That is why I made mention of it in one of my responses. My boys are still perfect and they have been circumsized.
LOL! My husband's still perfect and he's been circumsized....LMAO!!!

i will tell the doctor that he had not gotten his shots. nothing to hide. 5 years down the road if he needs a tetnus because of a rusty nail then he will get one. why give someone something now if not needed? will you get a birdflu shot if it comes out? i believe that pumping my son with chemicals and toxins is not healthy. i can not agree with giving my son something that has aborted fetal cells in it. I believe that giving him vaccinations COULD harm him in the long run. JMO

I agree with you 100% Jill. We are the same way. Neither of our children will be vacinated but IF they eventually need something they will get it. Zach has not have any of the baby vaccines and the doctors are always saying how healthy he is and he has never been sick other than a running nose from teething. Why give kids something they don't need?

I wasn't trying to turn this into a "circ or not circ" debate. Nor was I trying to bash on Jill in any way. My point being is that she feels insulted in this thread where I dont think many meant to insult her. She is 100% entitled to her beliefs. This is a debate that will always be (vax, circ etc) ANYTHING having to do with parenting will ruffle feathers. The only thing I was trying to get at was that both sides feel bashed and that they are being called unfit. I don't like reading the blinkie. Its a personal thing. I was just trying to make a point that the ones against vaxing, circing, etc aren;t the only ones feeling bashed....

My baby girl is vaxed, I breastfeed too! and when I have myself a little boy, he will be circumsised...There are all MY choices and they are right for me. Vaxing is a good thing IMO and I will make sure my baby girl stays up to date on hers...she is happy, healthy and her vax's havent affected her negatively at all (and I pray they never do) but things in life are never guaranteed...Our health, or anything else...My faith in the Lord helps me to not think or worry too much about things like this...

Good Luck in deciding what your going to do with your daycare!

To answer the original question, no April I don't think you're wrong. I would actually be appreciative of the decision, were my child in your care.

Why give kids something they don't need?


But they don't "need" it as much these days because the majority of parents DO vax... that is why it seems like they don't "need" it. What happens when everyone stops vaxing though? :confused

exactly Brandi!

But they don't "need" it as much these days because the majority of parents DO vax... that is why it seems like they don't "need" it. What happens when everyone stops vaxing though? :confused

exactly.

Like i said earlier in this debate. vaccines are the reason that things such as Small Pox are not a lethal epidemic anymore.

I don't have children, but if we do, they will be vaxed. In some of my classes this year I saw pictures of measles and polio and it literally scared the CRAP out of me. My kids will be vaxed if we ever have them. I think the benefits outweigh the negatives, in my opinion. And to the OP, no I don't think you're being discriminatory. You are trying to do what's best for you and the other kids.

But they don't "need" it as much these days because the majority of parents DO vax... that is why it seems like they don't "need" it. What happens when everyone stops vaxing though? :confused

:yes Also, vaccines are preventative which prevents them from getting it. For some of the diseases vaccinated - by the time they need it, it's too late.

:yes Also, vaccines are preventative which prevents them from getting it. For some of the diseases vaccinated - by the time they need it, it's too late.

:yes

It basically boils down to most of us are proactive instead of reactive.


Thank you for all your opinions. I know I can do what I'm doing, but was curious what others thought and what feelings they had. I have no fear that I have done everything possible to protect my children from preventable diseases. It breaks my heart thinking/hearing/seeing children in other countries who do not have the oppertunities we do, yet so many of us choose to not take advantage of them. I am thankful our government takes such good care of us. Even though most of the time most of us have to be complaining about something the government is doing, its nice to know that we are much better off than most people in the world. If our government was not making such irritating laws our country would not be as safe, well fed, secure, and healthy as it is.

I will not ever understand people who take chances on their childs health and life and not give the important immunizations. Flu shot is one thing, most of the others are just too important. I do not want my child to suffer with such an awful disease. Only in rare circumstances do I agree with not vaxing a child. Health related reasons only, the rest are silly....

:yes Also, vaccines are preventative which prevents them from getting it. For some of the diseases vaccinated - by the time they need it, it's too late.
Yes exactly!!!

Perhaps I see things too "Black and White"-ish. I would never say I won't do something immoral or inhumane. Like anything else, it depends on circumstances.

The thought of consuming human flesh, for example, seems like an atrocity seen only in movies and rain forests - but we say this with a full stomach and knowledge that food will be here tomorrow. If the difference between survival and the death of my family hinged on me having enough energy to walk 20 miles after 18 days of exposure, I can almost promise I'd consume ANYTHING of caloric value. I think most of us would.

I can easily argue that giving my son a vax shot, regardless of it's origin, is along these same lines. Immoral though it may or may not be, I justify my actions by this: The difference between his survival and his demise could very well be found in a syringe. If it means my sons death, I could care less where the contents came from. I will base my decisions on what keeps my family ALIVE, not if I agree with the process.

I can easily argue that giving my son a vax shot, regardless of it's origin, is along these same lines. Immoral though it may or may not be, I justify my actions by this: The difference between his survival and his demise could very well be found in a syringe. If it means my sons death, I could care less where the contents came from. I will base my decisions on what keeps my family ALIVE, not if I agree with the process.

bravo!