In the stay at home wife post, a point was brought up about how parents should think about how much it costs to put their kids to college and plan according. So, my question is- what is your personal stance on college education? Do you plan to pay all of your kids' full tuition? Part of it? None of it? Should kids be expected to work hard enough to earn scholarships and put themselves through college? Do you think kids are less likely to take college seriously and bust their butt to make good grades if mommy and daddy are picking up the full tab? :)

I think with how much college costs nowadays some help is probably a good thing. But not a free ride. My kids will be expected to at least work part-time and help. Now if they end up being smart enough to get full scholarships then I would not make then get a job and let them concentrate fully on their studies. That doesnt mean I will pay for their partying. If they want to goof off they can get a job and pay for it.

we definitely plan to help our kids

Well, I didn't have any help with college...my parents couldn't afford to help me out, so I have a pretty large loan I'll be paying for a long time and I worked 25 hours or so throughout college. I do think that I would like to help my kids through college, but not pay for everything. And I won't be forking over any money so they can go to house parties. I will expect them to work very hard and try to obtain a scholarship, but if they do their best and it doesn't happen I am not going to come down on them. I think it's very important to instill a good work ethic and footing the entire bill might make them slack a little. All in all, I will insist they go to college because education is key.

I'm hoping my kids will want to go to uni in the UK, so that I don't have to fork out! :P If they want to study in the US, I'll do my best to help out, but if they want to go out, buy clothes, dvds etc they'll have to get a job!

Just out of interest, how much is it (roughly) to go to uni in the US?

My parents haven't paid anything for my education, but it's only because I got a full-scholarship for 4 years from my institution, plus scholarships through other foundations and organizations-which offset other expenses I have. However my mother did set up a college fund for me, which has never been touched because I have no reason to touch it right now. I may use it for Law school, but right now I consider it my savings for my childrens education(whether it be a private K-12 school or college). I will pay for my childrens education as much as I can, but that's just my choice. I think it's good that a lot of parents make their children work for it, I had to work for my scholarships & it paid off in the long run.

I'm hoping my kids will want to go to uni in the UK, so that I don't have to fork out! :P If they want to study in the US, I'll do my best to help out, but if they want to go out, buy clothes, dvds etc they'll have to get a job!

Just out of interest, how much is it (roughly) to go to uni in the US?


I wish I had some definite figures for you but I'm not totally sure. I know it's a LOT though. Definitely double digits. For some, I know it can be anywhere between $15,000-$30,000 but it definitely depends on which college you attent. It is EXPENSIVE though.

I'm hoping my kids will want to go to uni in the UK, so that I don't have to fork out! :P If they want to study in the US, I'll do my best to help out, but if they want to go out, buy clothes, dvds etc they'll have to get a job!

Just out of interest, how much is it (roughly) to go to uni in the US?

Depends on the institution. A private school's tuition can be anywhere from 20,000-50,000 a year, not taking into consideraton housing & other expenses. A public school's tuition (in Massachusetts) is anywhere from 1,000-10,000, not including housing. But most of these costs are cut by financial aid, loans & scholarships.

here is a link also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition

I will defiently want to help my children out as much as I can. I want them to try to get scholarships but if they cant then I am going to be there to help them. :)

My husband and I are putting $100 a month right NOW for our kids education! It may seem pointless, but our kids are not even conceived yet, and if you add up 21 times 100 times 12, at the least, our kids will have $25,200! Hell, at the least, I'll be able to buy them a car!! After I finish school, We'll put $500 a month, but for right now, it's better than nothing! I AT LEAST want to be able to buy there books for them, AND HOPE they are able to get a schloarship!

I wish I had some definite figures for you but I'm not totally sure. I know it's a LOT though. Definitely double digits. For some, I know it can be anywhere between $15,000-$30,000 but it definitely depends on which college you attent. It is EXPENSIVE though.
:shock :shock :shock

My kids are definitely getting shipped off to the UK then!! :neener

I'm hoping my kids will want to go to uni in the UK, so that I don't have to fork out! :P If they want to study in the US, I'll do my best to help out, but if they want to go out, buy clothes, dvds etc they'll have to get a job!

Just out of interest, how much is it (roughly) to go to uni in the US?


lol I agree. Mine will be send off to Germany for college. SOOOO much cheaper. Right now it is like $500 for a whole semester with as many classes as you want to take...

lol I agree. Mine will be send off to Germany for college. SOOOO much cheaper. Right now it is like $500 for a whole semester with as many classes as you want to take...

:lol I don't feel too bad about it now!
The fees are about the same for the UK. It was free when I started uni, and I'm sure the fees will continue to increase, but it's nothing compared to US fees! :inshock

I never received ANY help from my parents or family to pay for college, I worked hard, applied for scholarships and grants and I got myself through college. I also NEVER expected my family to pay for MY education. If I had kids, I may try to help them somewhat for like books and stuff, but I would not pay for their entire education, they need to have some responsibility for their own life as well.

Both dh and I plan on paying for all of our children's college. If they help out GREAT, if they don't its ok also. If they work thier butts off and get a scholarship wonderful, the money that is to pay for them can be used on the next child. I was raised that school is the most important and a job could get in the way. That is how i will raise our children. Some may not agree with what i've said but oh well....its what WE believe!!

I think helping them get on their feet is important. We have funds set up for each of the kids, plus the piddly amount in their upromise accts. My husband took out a loan for 8000 for Sam's school this year, and she got 2 grants. I made her fill out the paperwork to request the grants. :dunno Her dad offered to help, but only if she went into a medical related field, and that wasnt the path she chose. I dont agree with his "conditions".

I put myself through college because my parents couldn't afford to. I stayed at home with my parents and went to a community college for 3 years and then to a university to get my BS degree. I worked during college and saved to go to school. I didn't get any grants or scholarships(remember girls I graduated HS 20 years ago). We will help his daughter with college and she can live with us if she chooses. We tell her that she has to get a good job because she has 4 parents to support when we get old. LOL

We plan on helping our kids pay for college. I hope my kids choose to attend a CSU school here is CA. They seem to be less expensive. I'm going to try and stear them away from private and out of state schools. There are lots of great colleges here in CA.

John and I have talked and said we will pay for college ONLY if they maintain their grades. I refuse to pay for them to go and fail their classes. We will also not pay up front. They will have to find a way to get their tuition and books paid for and then once we see their final grades for that semester we will pay them back or pay the loan, however it was paid for. We're not going to say if you fail one class then you are on your own and that is it. We just won't pay for that class. If they want to live with us that is fine.

ETA: I wanted to clarfy cause I don't think I said this very clear. The following is in reference to their living expenses. We will still pay for their classes as long as they pass.

If they are going to school near home and don't want to live with us then I refuse to pay their way for that. If they want to do that they need to get a job. If the college they choose is not near then we will help. We won't pay the whole amount but we will help.

We do intend to do our part. If they want to go straight to a uni than they will need to have scholarships or fund what we cannot afford. But as long as they try hard and make good grades we will be behind them doing what we can to pay for their education. I do feel it is a parental responsibility if the child is really working towards getting the education being paid for.

after my mom passed i got an annuity set up so college is payed for. but my grandma would've helped me pay in addition to scholarships and loans. there are enough scholarships out there for everyone.

If I can afford it, I will pay for all of my children's college costs and for their basic needs. Spending $$ and money for extra clothes will be from money they earned themselves. They will have to keep up their grades for this to be the case.

College was such a great experience for me and I'm glad I had the opportunity to love away from home. I had about $5000/yr in loans and my parents paid for the rest. It's managable now for me to pay back.

I wouldn't be able to have my masters at this age if it wasn't for my parents help. I hope to repay the kindness to my children.

I want and plan on helping Taylor with college expenses as much as I can. My school was paid for through scholarships and stuff, so my mom just helped me with my cell phone bill and car insurance. I had a job to take care of my car payment and spending money...then my rent and bills when I moved off campus.

I do think parents should help their kids with college if they can. It's wise to start saving as soon as they are born because the cost of college is just going to keep going up.

I never received ANY help from my parents or family to pay for college, I worked hard, applied for scholarships and grants and I got myself through college. I also NEVER expected my family to pay for MY education. If I had kids, I may try to help them somewhat for like books and stuff, but I would not pay for their entire education, they need to have some responsibility for their own life as well.


I agree :yes

We plan on helping them to a point, like with books and some things. We are encouraging them to get good grades and to apply for scholarships & grants. If one of them want to join the military for an education, then great. We both want them to have responsibility.

I think parents should help a child through college if they can't pay for everything on their own, but I do think the child should contribute.

My parents had no problem helping me through college (well my mom gives me crap now and then) but I earned some scholarships and helped out by taking out my own loans. And because my parents were helping me out I made sure that I kept my GPA pretty high to show them I appreciated it and that I was going to work hard since they helped me out.

i agree if you can help your child/ren out through college you should, even if its just giving them some money for books (hell it costed me almost 1,000 for books just for this semester). i know the value of a dollar even though i don't have to pay for college, i understand that money is a luxery. i agree children need to earn their parents aid. going out and partying every single night and being on academic warning for several semesters is unacceptable. i know college is a time to go out and have fun but if that's what my child/ren want to do they won't receive help from me. it is not fair to me and dh to have to pay for our children to go and fuck up

we will help our children as much as we can the rest will be on them be it grants, scholarships, financial aid, student loans, a job.

We will definitely be paying for our childern's college tuition. My parents did it for my 3 brothers and I. I do expect my children to apply for scholarships and such. I attempted at the going to school full-time and working full-time routine. No way would I want my child going through that. It was so stressful! So yes we will be paying and I'm sure my parents will contribute some as well, seeing as my parents have opened up a savings account for Ethan for them to stash some funds into. :)

My brother and I have paid for our AA's out of our pocket. We didn't expect our parents to help out, they let us live at home and that was plenty of help! We didn't take out loans, just used our pell grants and paid the rest. Chris and I will be paying for the rest of me education, and my brother is in the Army now and they are paying for him to finish his BA and go to law school. We appreciate every single class we are able to finish.
I have a friend whose parents pay for everything while she's in college - tuition, rent, car, insurance, groceries, clothes, fun money, everything. She's getting her masters as well so that's 6 years. She can be slightly bratty, and I don't want that for my future children.
I want to find a nice middle balance in aiding our children with getting their feet on the ground as adults.

Adam and I will pay for Aarons college...we both didn't receive any help so this is the least we can do for our child.

2 situations: undergrad - i was fortunate enough to have my parents' help and scholarships. i didn't work any less hard because it was paid for. maybe i was spoiled, but i graduated suma cum laude.

grad school - i paid on my own. it was tough at times but i learned alot of financial responsibilities. and i made it out without any loans or debts.

I think there are things to be said about each situation. teaching children independence is priceless, but putting them in financial strain is burdening. i would want to help my kids to some extent.

We will help our kids as much as we can. I also hope they do as well in school as Tony and I so they can get some scholarships as well. We both had straight A's without any real effort.

we plan on helping sydney but i want her to work hard in school and try and get scholarships and if it's possible i would like for her to work part time while she's in college to help pay for the things that she needs.

I will help Madison the best I can but she will be required to help. I'm not flipping the whole bill. That will not teach her responsibility. My parents didn't help me with college. I had a few savings bonds from grandparents that I used my first semester. After that if I wanted to continue school I had to find a job and pay tuition and books myself. My dad did pitch in my 2nd semester and give me a check for my books. My mom however did let me live with her which made it somewhat easy. I still had bills though that I had to pay (800 dollars worth). It just made it easier because I was trying to get some bills paid off and there's no way I would of been able to do it if I was living on my own. This time I'm on financial aid and I'm sure I'll have loans to pay back after I'm done with University of Phoenix.

<sigh>

If I had the coordination, I would stand up and dance a jig!

It's soooooo nice to hear people saying that they'll help their kids pay for it, but refuse to cover the entire cost. To us, something that is free has less value than something we work for. I know that my son would probably go out on drinking binges at frat parties and get kicked out of school by his Sophomore year if I foot the bill - he has no vested interest in the school. But if he pays for a portion of it, all of the sudden, it's HIS investment. It's HIS future. It gives him a goal AND it gives the goal some form of value.

Even though I believe that college is a waste of time, he's going to help pay his way through it, and I'll back him 100%.

hatetank - normally i am in your corner...and i am, except...college is a waste of time? it is what you make it. it can be a waste or can be a wonderful and enlightening experience. i know not everyone is a "school person" but i love it and would go back again and again if it wasn't so damn expensive.

i don't pay for my college i have a payout from my mother's wrongful death lawsuit. does that make me not appreciate my schooling anymore than someone who's parents pay for it. i don't know about you (you in general) but i would rather have my mother back and work at wendy's then be going to college without her alive. i'm lucky i guess in the sense that my i am able to pay for college each semester in full, and i'm lucky that i don't have to worry about paying back thousands and thousands of dollars in loans. to those of you who said that your child would have to pay out most of the cost please be sensitive to those of us that are "lucky" enough to not worry about paying for college for whatever reason--whether that be because of a situation like mine, or the parents are rich and the child has a trustfund, or they won enough scholarships to pay for it in full, or they are excellent atheletes and don't have to worry about paying for school they just have to keep a GPA of a 2.0 as it is in my school.

I will pay for our childrens education if we can afford it. But they will either be involved in sports or some kind of activity OR have a job at school.

Their not going to just go to class & party away.

However, they mess up- they pay. I'm not going to foot the bill when their pulling D's & F's. Their grades will need to be mostly A's & B's.
___________________________________

When I went to college, I had to pay some amount. It was $3K a semester and my Mom paid $1K, my Dad & stepmom paid $1K, and I paid $1K.

With money I had saved through out the years w/ jobs.

<sigh>

If I had the coordination, I would stand up and dance a jig!

It's soooooo nice to hear people saying that they'll help their kids pay for it, but refuse to cover the entire cost. To us, something that is free has less value than something we work for. I know that my son would probably go out on drinking binges at frat parties and get kicked out of school by his Sophomore year if I foot the bill - he has no vested interest in the school. But if he pays for a portion of it, all of the sudden, it's HIS investment. It's HIS future. It gives him a goal AND it gives the goal some form of value.

Even though I believe that college is a waste of time, he's going to help pay his way through it, and I'll back him 100%.

Why do YOU think college is a waste of money?

I plan on paying full for my kids education. my parents are doing it for me so i don't feel that i should make them pay for it either.

I don't know..we'll figure it out when the time comes. I will definitely be pro-active in helping them find resources, filling out FAFSA forms and the like and we will help out monetarily to a degree. They all have college savings accounts and we put in as much as we can but it's not going to cover everything for four years for three children. We've gotten them into sports and extra curricular activities early on and hopefully their talents will pay off in the long run with some scholarships.

All of my children can go to college for free through a program at one of dh's past commands however there are a limited amount of scholarships available and by the time my children are ready to go to college there may not be any left so we are definitely not putting all our eggs in that basket! :hehe

But if he pays for a portion of it, all of the sudden, it's HIS investment.

Not necessarily so...My first semester- both my parents & I each paid $1K...What did I do? After the 2nd week I stopped going to class & flunked out.

So they only lost out on $1K but I also screwed myself...I knew I was too..

We are hoping for scholarship help, but we will assist our kids as much as we can, but they have to be willing to help themselves as well.

In the stay at home wife post, a point was brought up about how parents should think about how much it costs to put their kids to college and plan according. So, my question is- what is your personal stance on college education? Do you plan to pay all of your kids' full tuition? Part of it? None of it? Should kids be expected to work hard enough to earn scholarships and put themselves through college? Do you think kids are less likely to take college seriously and bust their butt to make good grades if mommy and daddy are picking up the full tab? :)

We plan on paying as much as we can for their college. I already talk to them about how important finishing college is. I don't want them to stress about paying their tuition. They will work for spending money though, and hopefully they'll save some of that for buying a house. If they do flunk class, then I'll quit paying for it.

I hope that we would be in a position to help. My parents helped me and the summer before college I worked nonstop and saved every penny. I would my child would get a part time job to help out though.

There is an article in my book from last semester about college being a waste. I'll have to find it.

hatetank - normally i am in your corner...and i am, except...college is a waste of time? it is what you make it. it can be a waste or can be a wonderful and enlightening experience. i know not everyone is a "school person" but i love it and would go back again and again if it wasn't so damn expensive.

Try this for example: A kid drops out of high school his senior year. Within a month, he's drinking, doing drugs and hanging out with the wrong crowd. He moves out of parents house and begins mooching off of friends. He gets arrested quite a few times for various things ranging from B&E to theft. On probation for theft, he's required to go to school or get a GED. He earns his GED by taking the entire test in 2 hours. He is 20 years old and has moved back into his mother's house. His mother has become an alcoholic, drinking heavily and leaves little doubt as to his being the reason.

When I look back on my life, I'm rarely proud. When I am proud, it's because I know that I have taken that sorry piece of crap described above and turned him into something. That is my past and so shall it always remain my story.

And I've done all of this without ever going to college.

I've tried to explain myself further for about 10 minutes now and I keep deleting it. It all sounds so self-serving. I place more value on one's ability to think outside of the box, solve problems in innovative ways and their personability than I do on that piece of paper.

Not necessarily so...My first semester- both my parents & I each paid $1K...What did I do? After the 2nd week I stopped going to class & flunked out.

So they only lost out on $1K but I also screwed myself...I knew I was too..

There will always be exceptions to the rule. While I'll plan on this happening, I won't expect it. It sounds like there's more to your story than you're telling, and that it may have something to do with your decision. Anyone who has been taught the true value of money and education wouldn't have flunked out after two weeks unless something else happened, in my experience, anyway.

It sounds like there's more to your story than you're telling, and that it may have something to do with your decision. Anyone who has been taught the true value of money and education wouldn't have flunked out after two weeks unless something else happened, in my experience, anyway.

mmm...not really...I admit I don't think i was taught value of money very well, even though I worked- but as soon as a paycheck came- my stepmom took it & put it in my savings...So I never dealt with that :shrug But I also didn't have any self control. Such as making myself get up to go to class. I was lazy :blush

my parents are paying for my books, room and board and tuition. i pay for my spending money.

i work every other weekend and those weekends that i come home to work i also help around the house.

i dont pay a dime. i did fail 2 classes. but then 2nd semester I got excellent grades. i disagree with the claim that if a child invests in it him or herself they will do better. It just depends on how much they put into it mentally and emotionally, not monetarily.

Hatetank: are you going to encourage your children to NOT go to school?

Hatetank: are you going to encourage your children to NOT go to school?

It's fact: Children who are taught responsibility will have a more vested interest in whatever they do when they put something of theirs on the line. This is why "take my word for it" still holds some weight amongst people. We cherish that which we feel we've earned, not what is simply the next plate in the 10 course meal of handouts.

It sounds like you learned that your parents will hold you responsible for your actions. You'd rather eat carboard for dinner than face your parents having squandered all of their money on frat parties and keg stands. Good on you! I truly hope you succeed and pass this trait on to your children!

I will push my kids through school as hard as I can. If they want to go to college, I'll support it. I may not believe in it, but I believe in THEM. It's not my place to judge someone on their decision, and I'll help them all I can.

mmm...not really...I admit I don't think i was taught value of money very well, even though I worked- but as soon as a paycheck came- my stepmom took it & put it in my savings...So I never dealt with that :shrug But I also didn't have any self control. Such as making myself get up to go to class. I was lazy :blush

Kristi will tell you that this also my Achilles Heel. I have absolutely no money sense. I never had to pay a bill growing up, and everything I needed could be bought with a single paycheck. I never had a savings account, and the worst thing to happen to me was a checkbook. Did you know you can go to jail for bouncing checks?

It usually does boil down to money management, and the skills you're taught. Kristi has taught me TONS about managing money, though it is still my weakest score in Home Ec. I've been learning as much as I can so that I can pass on good habits to my kids, even if I'm a loss.

[QUOTE=Hatetank]
Even though I believe that college is a waste of time, [QUOTE]

I'm in my 8th yr of uni - why didn't anyone tell me this before?! :shock :lol

we'll pay for as much as we are able to........we started funds when they were babies. I actually have friends who have started savings BEFORE they have kids.

1.I am hoping that my children will earn scholarships based on academics, 2. They will join the military for the education funds, or 3. They will be offered an appointment to one of the service academies. If none of those happen, I do plan to help with some of the costs, but certainly not all of it. Children need to learn responsibility with money, planning their future, etc. I do not want them to depend on the BANK OF MOM AND DAD, but instead, on the school of life. I know I learned that way-the hard way at times, but I do not regret that.

Both DH and I have done a lot of research on funding college for kids and teaching of money management. The first thing is, every financial planner will tell you to save for your own retirement BEFORE you save for college for your kids. we have a 529 & coverdell plan set up for dd but most of our future saving money goes to our retirement funds. we will help them with what we end up saving and the rest is up to them.

there is a lot of debate on how to adequately teach kids how to manage money, but what i do know is my daughter will learn how to manage money way before she goes to college. part of the problem out there now is that kids know how to scrimp when they don't have money, but don't know how to manage it when they do.

ETA: my husband thinks college for 18-22 year olds is a somewhat a waste of time too because most people at that age don't know what they want to do with their lives. Both of us majored in subjects we do nothing with. :shrug

The first thing is, every financial planner will tell you to save for your own retirement BEFORE you save for college for your kids.


We heard this also,Like say you get $10,000, do you put it towards your child(ren)s college or towards retirement. and the financial advisor said towards retirement. You can always get student loans for your childs education but you can't take out a loan for your retirement. And she said student loans are considered good credit.That whenever you have the extra money to put it towards retirement. We save as much as we can, and my FIL and my dad buys saving's bonds for my children .it's something that they did on there own. We didn't ask them too.

The first thing is, every financial planner will tell you to save for your own retirement BEFORE you save for college for your kids.

We have heard that as well. John's friend's sister is a finacial advisor so we talk to her at times and she has told us the same thing. We have savings accounts for both kids, will have to get one for this little one now. Before my grandma passed 3 years ago she left Breanna an inheritance (it isn't a huge amount but it is a nice sized one and she can't touch it til she is 21) so hopefully between that, the savings account and the several savings bonds John's parents have taken out for her, and any grants and scholarships she gets that college is mostly if not completely paid for. Then John and I will just have to work towards paying college for the youngest 2.

Try this for example: A kid drops out of high school his senior year. Within a month, he's drinking, doing drugs and hanging out with the wrong crowd. He moves out of parents house and begins mooching off of friends. He gets arrested quite a few times for various things ranging from B&E to theft. On probation for theft, he's required to go to school or get a GED. He earns his GED by taking the entire test in 2 hours. He is 20 years old and has moved back into his mother's house. His mother has become an alcoholic, drinking heavily and leaves little doubt as to his being the reason.

When I look back on my life, I'm rarely proud. When I am proud, it's because I know that I have taken that sorry piece of crap described above and turned him into something. That is my past and so shall it always remain my story.

And I've done all of this without ever going to college.

I've tried to explain myself further for about 10 minutes now and I keep deleting it. It all sounds so self-serving. I place more value on one's ability to think outside of the box, solve problems in innovative ways and their personability than I do on that piece of paper.

yeah, hatetank, that's a great story (no, i'm not being sarcastic). and there are alot of successful, anti-college stories out there like yours. my fiance dropped out as well, but made a profession for himself through experience (prior to the navy). i would agree...I've seen friends waste it away and it's not for everyone. I would certainly support my children in whatever they wanted to do...i'm a friggin artist for crying out loud! but, saying it's a waste of time so broadly, i do not think is accurate. though my degrees got me my job, i thoroughly enjoyed my classes and think i have grown because of it. that's not to say it's the ONLY way to grow...

1.I am hoping that my children will earn scholarships based on academics, 2. They will join the military for the education funds, or 3. They will be offered an appointment to one of the service academies. If none of those happen, I do plan to help with some of the costs, but certainly not all of it. Children need to learn responsibility with money, planning their future, etc. I do not want them to depend on the BANK OF MOM AND DAD, but instead, on the school of life. I know I learned that way-the hard way at times, but I do not regret that.

I agree 100%. DD is going to college next year. She will work to help with costs. :D

My kids will certainly learn responsibility too. I surely won't be the parent depositing money into their accounts every month while they go and party it all away. No way. I do not like spoiled kids.

My kids will certainly learn responsibility too. I surely won't be the parent depositing money into their accounts every month while they go and party it all away. No way. I do not like spoiled kids.

i dont know. that is what my parents did with me. they wanted me to concentrate on school. i finished my first year of college with a higher GPA that i had in high school. and for me, that was an accomplishment. but even with me not having to worry about money, i had to mail home receipts once a month. i could only be $5 off with missing receipts. yes, i was spoiled. but i was also taught responsibility at the same time.

yes, my kids will be encouraged to go for scholarships and such. but i will help them out all i can for them to avoid taking out student loans and entering the "real" world with so much debt starting out.

The receipt idea is a good one. At least they knew what you were doing with the money. I just don't want them to turn into those brats on My Super Sweet Sixteen.

i think it is all about how you raise your child. you can make them get a job but still support them or you can not support them at all. either way your child could be a spoiled brat. i mean spoiling doesn't just have to come from actual monetary checks/cash/credit cards but also if you have a child that is "working" his way through college but you buy him/her the newest Ipod and the newest laptop and the newest cell phones, and really the newest most expensive technology of stuff he doesn't need then isn't that spoiling a child too? just something to think about.

We are facing this right now. Chanae is a senior and we will help her with her schooling as long as she maintains her grades. There will be conditions set before she signs up for her classes. She is going to go to a community college (only if she doesn't get a scholarship) and get all of her basics and then transfer to a 4 year college. We will save some money that way. She also has stated that she wants to go to school and live at home. That is alright with us because we can't afford to pay for room and board. She is a very good student and in the National Honor Society so her chances of getting some kind of scholarship are good. We don't want her to have to worry about where she is going to get the money for school, I want her to focus on getting a degree and nothing more. That is the one of the reasons that I never wanted to go to college is because my parents said that I had to pay for it by myself. How daunting is that on an 18 year old child? I didn't get a scholarship and it was alot for me to take in. I have gone to college and taken several courses over time and would like to finish my nursing, but I will focus on that when Alex is in 1st grade.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with helping your child as long as they are serious about going to school.

I also want Chanae to be able to take care of herself before starting a family, she is going to need a degree and we've always pushed education before anything else. That is her way of thinking as well, so we are lucky.

... but even with me not having to worry about money, i had to mail home receipts once a month. i could only be $5 off with missing receipts. yes, i was spoiled. but i was also taught responsibility at the same time.

i would rather have worked then send home receipts. :rofl that definitely doesn't make you spoiled because i can't imagine my parents (at least) accepting my 4 day a week bar bills. I went out a lot in college but i still maintained my grades. my parents paid for all tuition unless my grades dropped below a 3.0 average. then the next semester was mine & i paid for my housing my last 2 years. i had a part time job for spending money but most of the money to pay for other things came from my hs graduation gifts. i ended college without any debt. DH on the other hand has student loans he still owes. but of the 2 of us, i have the better money management skills and that i contribute to all the guidance from my parents before college.

isn't that spoiling a child too? just something to think about.

Hmm I don't know. I don't plan on doing that. I don't even have any of that. I may buy one at a time for Christmas gifts, but if I think they are ungrateful, then I'll stop buying them anything at all. I was mostly just trying to say that even though I will pay for most of the college costs, I will still teach them responsiblity too. Kids who have college paid for can still be responsible.

Hmm I don't know. I don't plan on doing that. I don't even have any of that. I may buy one at a time for Christmas gifts, but if I think they are ungrateful, then I'll stop buying them anything at all. I was mostly just trying to say that even though I will pay for most of the college costs, I will still teach them responsiblity too. Kids who have college paid for can still be responsible.

i was attacking you but it was sort of a general thought. for example i really do need a new laptop for school, mine keeps having to be re-formatted and its only 5 semesters old and it has one of the best virus scanning systems and spy/ad ware programs on it and it still keeps happening. it just sucks because they go out of style (technologically) so fast. what with moving and all and the adjustment to a new school i would love to be able to have a new one. there are a lot of things that i WANT but not alot of things that i NEED. i guess its just the distinction between the two. yes its nice to have a new laptop and a new cell phone and a new PDA or ipod or whatever but sometimes you just can't have it. i paid for my new slvr from cingular and it cost me $210 to upgrade. i don't know where i'm going with this because i'm exhausted from my day so i'm stopping now.

I'll probably do what was done with me. I had a college "book fund" set up when I was in...sixth grade? It was to pay for my books, only my books and the rest would depend. This is where my version is different. I will help my kids to an extent, but there is absolutely no reason they can't get a scholorship, they have so many to chose from now. When I was young the deal was, if I lived at home after 18, I had to go to school, they'd pay for school and I'd have a small allowance. But fun money I'd need a job for. As it turns out I moved out at 18 and am footing the bill for my own education. I tell you what, I probably would have pissed away four years if someone else had been paying for it, it's just how I was at that age. My kids though, nope. I'll help, but they'll be the ones busting their asses, their father and I did it, so can they.

I should add I had to pay into that book fund, it wasn't just money dumped in for me. I had an initial "gift" drop, the rest was me and interest. LOL

I plan on helping my children but they have to work and keep grades up. I will not pay for them to go to a party school or anything of that nature.

I'll probably do what was done with me. I had a college "book fund" set up when I was in...sixth grade? It was to pay for my books, only my books and the rest would depend. This is where my version is different. I will help my kids to an extent, but there is absolutely no reason they can't get a scholorship, they have so many to chose from now. When I was young the deal was, if I lived at home after 18, I had to go to school, they'd pay for school and I'd have a small allowance. But fun money I'd need a job for. As it turns out I moved out at 18 and am footing the bill for my own education. I tell you what, I probably would have pissed away four years if someone else had been paying for it, it's just how I was at that age. My kids though, nope. I'll help, but they'll be the ones busting their asses, their father and I did it, so can they.

the only problem with trying to attain a scholarship is that most of the ones that i was eligible for were for community leadership (and you had to have had at lesat X hours of community service) or you had to have a minimum of a 3.6 GPA--mine was a 3.5. alot of the other ones out there were for education majors only, or for engineering majors only, etc etc. at the time i didn't know what i wanted to do. a good site to go to is www.fastweb.com they've got everything from write 7 essays and have a 4.0 gpa scholarship to the make you and your prom dates clothes out of ducktape and get $75.

its difficult to find a scholarship for the average white student out there that comes from a decent home where you you had no divorce and that you made over X amount every year, etc etc

But their father is in the military, do some research on scholorships for kids of service members, any associations the parents belong too, commands, types of service...they are endless. Off the top of my head, I can think of three my kids could apply for, just because of my husbands job.

true but there are other requirements too. i was "eligible" for some of the veteran's relative ones but i didn't meet the other requirements.

We don't feel responsible for any education beyond getting them through high school. however that said, we will help them do whatever we can to get their 2 year degree. They already know anything beyond that they are full responsible for themselves. We've taught them this since they could walk and talk though so they know what is expected of them and what to not expect from us (money whenever they feel like it) We also take each child into consideration. They are their own people and they each want something else with their lives. The oldest wants to enlisted so we hope to have his associates by the time he graduates thru dual enrollment and CLEP testing. The middle one wants to go ROTC via Air Force to a college of his choice. The youngest, she's not sure yet. She's got time to figure it out though. Because they know what we expect of them and what to not expect from us, they made these decisions pretty much on their own after they learned their options. They know they will not get a free ride. They were born to the wrong parents for that. ;)

It's funny though how other people have more of an issue of how we've chosen to go at this matter (dh's family mostly) than our own children do. They don't think we should have to pay for their college either.

true but there are other requirements too. i was "eligible" for some of the veteran's relative ones but i didn't meet the other requirements.

And I still see no reason they can't work for it. I had to, their dad had to. Am I relying 100% on a scholorship? No. I said I'd help, I will not be footing the bill for it though. They are adults by that point, welcome to the real world. I have tons of friends who went to college, partied their butts off and guess where they are? Living with mom and dad again. Um no, not happening. Scholorships, grants, loans...whatever.

I'm in my 8th yr of uni - why didn't anyone tell me this before?! :shock :lol

But tell me, how much free thought have you been allowed to invest into your studies? If you found a variation to the 'standard' training pipeline that totally got your interest, were you allowed to pursue that? I don't mean in your own time, I mean could you use class time, do your research with your professors blessing and help? I know in the US, you can't. Professors are paid by what they bring to the table through THEIR studies.

A truly great professor will merely point you in a direction and let you choose the path to get there. From my experience and research, this is not a cost effective means of instruction for the university, and is therefore disallowed.

I firmly believe that if you WANT it bad enough, if you TRULY want it bad enough, you'll go get it. You may need a point in the right direction a few times at first, but after that, you'll be headstrong enough to FIND your answers. You don't have to be a college student to buy a college textbook.

I put as much value on personal motivation as I do on personal responsibility. It's absolutely paramount that you NEVER forget your dreams. The only thing that should seperate you from pursuing a dream should be death, not a lack of tuition assistance.

Of course, I COULD bring up people who have affected the human condition through their work and never stepped foot in college, but I won't. We've all seen that list passed around :)

But tell me, how much free thought have you been allowed to invest into your studies? If you found a variation to the 'standard' training pipeline that totally got your interest, were you allowed to pursue that? I don't mean in your own time, I mean could you use class time, do your research with your professors blessing and help? I know in the US, you can't. Professors are paid by what they bring to the table through THEIR studies.

A truly great professor will merely point you in a direction and let you choose the path to get there. From my experience and research, this is not a cost effective means of instruction for the university, and is therefore disallowed.

I firmly believe that if you WANT it bad enough, if you TRULY want it bad enough, you'll go get it. You may need a point in the right direction a few times at first, but after that, you'll be headstrong enough to FIND your answers. You don't have to be a college student to buy a college textbook.

I put as much value on personal motivation as I do on personal responsibility. It's absolutely paramount that you NEVER forget your dreams. The only thing that should seperate you from pursuing a dream should be death, not a lack of tuition assistance.

Of course, I COULD bring up people who have affected the human condition through their work and never stepped foot in college, but I won't. We've all seen that list passed around :)

Of course, if there's something a student is particularly interested in, they're allowed to conduct their own research. That's how the research paper on 'the 5 second rule' (investigating wether it really is safe to eat food left on the floor for less than 5 seconds) was brought about! It the project isn't within the supervisor's area of expertise, another supervisor in that area will be allocated to the student to assist them with their project. That's what scientific research is all about - coming up with new ideas/concepts that will contribute to the general area of research. Hell, I'm doing that at the moment - I've just discovered that part of my project is unfeasible so I'm trying to think of something else to try for a yr in order to get my PhD.

I agree that you don't need to go to college to get on in life. Richard Branson dropped out and look where he is now! My brother quit his nursing degree to persue his dream of becoming a wrestler, and now he works with the WWE. But not everyone is as ambitious or determined, and with more and more people going to college/uni every year, a degree is becoming increasingly more necessary to obtain work.

If they can. I dont think they should get into hock over it.

But not everyone is as ambitious or determined, and with more and more people going to college/uni every year, a degree is becoming increasingly more necessary to obtain work.

You know, I think this is more the reason that angers me. Not so much the system of education, the exhorbent costs of things or the general herd mentality of a campus as much as this statement. People DON'T have ambition; they're not determined to learn. They NEED stuff handed to them in a package or they don't pursue it. I'm guilty of this as much as the next person.

That quote, "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought, which they avoid." (Soren Aabye Kierkegaard) is very relevant in this! I think that people (and by following, Companies), are trying to find a nice, nifty, cookie-cutter way of hiring people, and a college degree is one of the "Check in the Box" requirements. Who cares if the degree holder has no idea how to carry a box of paper without throwing his back out. Who cares if he has the common sense of a lampshade and get's run over in a crosswalk. I think we're putting too much value on a sheet of paper than we are the actual intelligence of the person.

If you were hiring people, wouldn't you want minds that you could MOLD? Someone who isn't biased towards a teaching style or work environment? I know I would rather have free-thinking people who can overcome obstacles in my business I couldn't have possibly foreseen. But that's just me :)

You know, I think this is more the reason that angers me. Not so much the system of education, the exhorbent costs of things or the general herd mentality of a campus as much as this statement. People DON'T have ambition; they're not determined to learn. They NEED stuff handed to them in a package or they don't pursue it. I'm guilty of this as much as the next person.
........

If you were hiring people, wouldn't you want minds that you could MOLD? Someone who isn't biased towards a teaching style or work environment? I know I would rather have free-thinking people who can overcome obstacles in my business I couldn't have possibly foreseen. But that's just me :)

I agree with you for the most part. Depending on the profession - there really isn't a NEED for a college degree - just a 'nice to have' - but totally unnecessary. I would much rather have someone that KNEW what they were doing because they had been doing it than someone that finished a course of education so that they could 'maybe' learn how to do the job.

You know, I think this is more the reason that angers me. Not so much the system of education, the exhorbent costs of things or the general herd mentality of a campus as much as this statement. People DON'T have ambition; they're not determined to learn. They NEED stuff handed to them in a package or they don't pursue it. I'm guilty of this as much as the next person.

That quote, "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought, which they avoid." (Soren Aabye Kierkegaard) is very relevant in this! I think that people (and by following, Companies), are trying to find a nice, nifty, cookie-cutter way of hiring people, and a college degree is one of the "Check in the Box" requirements. Who cares if the degree holder has no idea how to carry a box of paper without throwing his back out. Who cares if he has the common sense of a lampshade and get's run over in a crosswalk. I think we're putting too much value on a sheet of paper than we are the actual intelligence of the person.

If you were hiring people, wouldn't you want minds that you could MOLD? Someone who isn't biased towards a teaching style or work environment? I know I would rather have free-thinking people who can overcome obstacles in my business I couldn't have possibly foreseen. But that's just me :)

I agree to a certain extent. There are plenty of jobs out there that do not require a degree, and some employers are better off employing people who can learn fast on the job. My point of view is that most employers use that piece of paper to distinguish one potential candidate from another. It's not an ideal way of choosing an employee, and I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's the way it's currently done - whether necessary or not, a degree will generally give an individual the edge over someone else.

However, I don't agree that people who go to uni aren't 'free thinking'. I don't think that I had anything handed to me in choosing the academic route - I knew what I wanted to do and I went for it, but to go into medical research at least a degree is required. And I don't think all universities necessarily bias an individual towards a particular style of teaching. Problem-based learning is becoming increasingly common, where a student is given a particular problem in lieu of lectures and what/how they learn through solving that problem is entirely down to him/her.

We have accounts for all three of our children. They can use it to help with school or if that's a route they choose to not take they can have the money to do as they see fit once they are 21. I want our kids to be able to further their education without worrying about where the money will come from. Education is ALWAYS a good thing. :thumbsup

You know, I think this is more the reason that angers me. Not so much the system of education, the exhorbent costs of things or the general herd mentality of a campus as much as this statement. People DON'T have ambition; they're not determined to learn. They NEED stuff handed to them in a package or they don't pursue it. I'm guilty of this as much as the next person.

That quote, "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought, which they avoid." (Soren Aabye Kierkegaard) is very relevant in this! I think that people (and by following, Companies), are trying to find a nice, nifty, cookie-cutter way of hiring people, and a college degree is one of the "Check in the Box" requirements. Who cares if the degree holder has no idea how to carry a box of paper without throwing his back out. Who cares if he has the common sense of a lampshade and get's run over in a crosswalk. I think we're putting too much value on a sheet of paper than we are the actual intelligence of the person.

If you were hiring people, wouldn't you want minds that you could MOLD? Someone who isn't biased towards a teaching style or work environment? I know I would rather have free-thinking people who can overcome obstacles in my business I couldn't have possibly foreseen. But that's just me :)

Sure there are lots of people that don't have drive to do something on their own. If everyone was a smart, successful go-getter - who would work at the unskilled laborer jobs that are necessary for industrial functions?

Many companies aren't looking to educated people for necessarily the education. Many times they look to those people that graduated as having the ability to focus and learn. It's the act of getting the education more so than what they learned in certain cases. of course there are several jobs that you have to know something before you can just do it. Auditing, accounting, engineering, medicine - you can't walk into those jobs without the background. Where do you get the background for (as an example) chemical engineering if not from education?

Many companies aren't looking to educated people for necessarily the education. Many times they look to those people that graduated as having the ability to focus and learn. It's the act of getting the education more so than what they learned in certain cases. of course there are several jobs that you have to know something before you can just do it. Auditing, accounting, engineering, medicine - you can't walk into those jobs without the background. Where do you get the background for (as an example) chemical engineering if not from education?

Couldn't have said it better myself :yes

Sure there are lots of people that don't have drive to do something on their own. If everyone was a smart, successful go-getter - who would work at the unskilled laborer jobs that are necessary for industrial functions?

Many companies aren't looking to educated people for necessarily the education. Many times they look to those people that graduated as having the ability to focus and learn. It's the act of getting the education more so than what they learned in certain cases. of course there are several jobs that you have to know something before you can just do it. Auditing, accounting, engineering, medicine - you can't walk into those jobs without the background. Where do you get the background for (as an example) chemical engineering if not from education?

:agree :yesi completely agree. if we didn't have medical school and law school and graduate school how would we get treated for our illnesses, get our wrongs righted (i'm not talking about frivolous lawsuits) and get people to be psychologists, and CEOs. unfortunately there are jobs that need degrees. there are jobs that don't need them (i.e. mcdonalds, assembly lines, garbage men) but it is becoming more and more necessary for you to have a degree to be competitive in the work place. if it is between you and another job applicant for the same job and you both are equally qualified but one has a college degree (even just an associates) they will get the job. it is proven--it is in part due to the fact that if you can go through college and graduate you are, at least in employers eyes, more dependable and responsible. that is not always true but that's how employers see it.

:agree :yesi completely agree. if we didn't have medical school and law school and graduate school how would we get treated for our illnesses, get our wrongs righted (i'm not talking about frivolous lawsuits) and get people to be psychologists, and CEOs. unfortunately there are jobs that need degrees. there are jobs that don't need them (i.e. mcdonalds, assembly lines, garbage men) but it is becoming more and more necessary for you to have a degree to be competitive in the work place. if it is between you and another job applicant for the same job and you both are equally qualified but one has a college degree (even just an associates) they will get the job. it is proven--it is in part due to the fact that if you can go through college and graduate you are, at least in employers eyes, more dependable and responsible. that is not always true but that's how employers see it.

So how do we have doctors at all? How do we have lawyers? Someone, somewhere started writing things down, expounding on ideas and seeking to collaborate data with other people. You don't NEED a degree that states you can learn. EVERYONE learns. It happens every day. All the degree says is that you have the will and desire to stick with something. I can get the exact same response after speaking to the same interviewer, and not have a piece of paper or be in debt. It's a lazy way of finding employees, and I'm starting to see companies actually agreeing with me: "Associates degree or equivelant experience" is now a term I'm seeing in jobs I've looked up. A few years ago, it was a degree or nothing.

It's over-rated, which I think we're all in some form of agreement on. But if my son wants to go to college, that's HIS direction to take, and I'm not about to hinder his dreams for my beliefs.

So how do we have doctors at all? How do we have lawyers? Someone, somewhere started writing things down, expounding on ideas and seeking to collaborate data with other people. You don't NEED a degree that states you can learn. EVERYONE learns. It happens every day. All the degree says is that you have the will and desire to stick with something. I can get the exact same response after speaking to the same interviewer, and not have a piece of paper or be in debt. It's a lazy way of finding employees, and I'm starting to see companies actually agreeing with me: "Associates degree or equivelant experience" is now a term I'm seeing in jobs I've looked up. A few years ago, it was a degree or nothing.

It's over-rated, which I think we're all in some form of agreement on. But if my son wants to go to college, that's HIS direction to take, and I'm not about to hinder his dreams for my beliefs.

Unless you want your ass sued, you do need a degree!! ;) At least for medicine, it's a form of standardisation - a way of knowing that any given doctor knows how to palpate a patient and take a thorough history, and knows from memory a whole plethora of conditions, including symptoms and circumstances. I definitely would not a doctor to treat me if he/she had not obtained a qualification in the first place.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but I think it's a very idealistic point of view. IRL, I think that some form of education is necessary to persue a career.

Unless you want your ass sued, you do need a degree!! ;) At least for medicine, it's a form of standardisation - a way of knowing that any given doctor knows how to palpate a patient and take a thorough history, and knows from memory a whole plethora of conditions, including symptoms and circumstances. I definitely would not a doctor to treat me if he/she had not obtained a qualification in the first place.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but I think it's a very idealistic point of view. IRL, I think that some form of education is necessary to persue a career.

That's just it, and I understand what you're saying. But I can find a test that covers the material in medical school, I can get all the text books. And if I were so inclined, I could get it done.

I don't need a degree to have the knowledge: I need a degree to get the job. If you WANT to take the job, then you have to go through the process of getting the degree, either by challenging it on a test or going through the schooling. I'm arguing that taking the courses isn't a necessity to have the knowledge to someone who's truly motivated. We do have laws in place that REQUIRE some manner of qualification reporting, and this is fine with me. It ensures a certain level of quality in the product offered. I'm saying that the method you use to GET that degree shouldn't be restricted to a university.

That's just it, and I understand what you're saying. But I can find a test that covers the material in medical school, I can get all the text books. And if I were so inclined, I could get it done.

I don't need a degree to have the knowledge: I need a degree to get the job. If you WANT to take the job, then you have to go through the process of getting the degree, either by challenging it on a test or going through the schooling. I'm arguing that taking the courses isn't a necessity to have the knowledge to someone who's truly motivated. We do have laws in place that REQUIRE some manner of qualification reporting, and this is fine with me. It ensures a certain level of quality in the product offered. I'm saying that the method you use to GET that degree shouldn't be restricted to a university.

I totally agree (for once! :D) Some people just aren't suited to conventional education - they're not good at exams or writing essays. It doesn't mean they less capable of doing what they want to do. That's why problem-based learning was brought about; to provide people who aren't conventional academics to obtain degrees like medicine and law by their own method of learning.

I totally agree (for once! :D) Some people just aren't suited to conventional education - they're not good at exams or writing essays. It doesn't mean they less capable of doing what they want to do. That's why problem-based learning was brought about; to provide people who aren't conventional academics to obtain degrees like medicine and law by their own method of learning.

In the words of "Batman".. <BAMPH!> You nailed that one :)