LONDON (AFP) - Religion should be outlawed because it lacks compassion and promotes hatred of homosexuals, gay pop star Elton John said in an interview.

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The singer was speaking in a special "gay edition" of The Observer newspaper's Music Monthly Magazine, where he shared his views on subjects ranging from being a music icon to Prime Minister Tony Blair's stance on the Iraq war.

At a time when religion is the subject of fierce debate in Britain over the right to wear the Muslim veil and other faith symbols, John complained there was a general lack of leadership from spiritual leaders.

"I think religion has always tried to turn hatred towards gay people. From my point of view, I would ban religion completely," he was quoted as saying.

"Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate. The world is near escalating to World War Three and where are the leaders of each religion?

"Why aren't they having a conclave? Why aren't they coming together? I said this after 9/11 and people thought I was nuts. Instead of more violence why isn't there a meeting of religious leaders?" he said.

"It's like the peace movement in the Sixties. Musicians got through to people by getting out there and doing peace concerts but we don't seem to do them anymore.

"If John Lennon were alive today, he'd be leading it with a vengeance."

John complained that too many people were protesting online to take to the streets, highlighting the effectiveness of the February 2003 march against military action in Iraq that mobilized millions around the world.

With spiralling violence in Iraq, such opposition to Blair's backing of the United States had "come back to bite him on the ass," he added.

On homosexuality, the 59-year-old -- who sealed a civil partnership with his long-term partner, the Canadian film director David Furnish in December last year -- said he was happy to be viewed as the "acceptable face of gayness."

He also vowed to continue his fight for gay rights and AIDS charities: "I can't just sit back; it's not in my nature anymore. I'm nearly 60 years old after all. I can't sit back and blindly ignore it and I won't."

I think that Elton John makes a very valid point...while I wouldn't go to the extreme of 'banning' religion, I would limit what effect it has in day-to-day life, such as the gay marriage/civil unions thing.
Unless I missed something, wasn't the government FOR the seperation of church and state? Maybe I'm the only one, but I haven't seen any kind of action taken to even begin to seperate the two.
I swear, sometimes this country is a living contradiction of itself and it's laws.... :no


"Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate. The world is near escalating to World War Three and where are the leaders of each religion?"

If this statement right here isn't the truth, I don't know what is.

i'm catholic and follow an organized religion does that make me a hateful lemming? no! personally i think that gays should be allowed to receive all the same benefit as married heterosexual couples but it SHOULD NOT be called marriage. that is a religious thing. that is something that God created for man and woman. call it a civil union for all i care just not marriage.

how about they banned any sort of public prayer in public schools? that imo is ridiculuous. if you don't want to say the prayer sit out just like if you don't want to say the pledge. i used to go to a catholic private school and we had girls that were in there that were not catholic or even chrisitan. they would just sit down during mass and not partake in communion and such.

if elton john doesn't like the church then don't be a part of it. he's entitled to his opinions but sure as shit don't call me a lemming because i belong to and believe in organized religion

oh and in response to his where are the leaders while world war three is escalating point? they are staying out of government

:roflmao

OK Sir Elton, we'll get right on that...

I agree w/Married2USAF. Our country IS supposed to have a separation of church and state, but it seems lately that that separation has been getting less and less. That's not what our Founding Fathers wanted.

I can see where the hateful lemmings comment comes into play b/c while I have come across people who are devout and very caring individuals, I've come across more who are "Sunday Christians" (to quote Mark Twain). People who say they follow the Book, but don't. Speaking specifically towards Christianity, why are Christians so hateful towards things they don't agree w/ -- abortion, gay marriage....? Jesus did not teach hatred. He taught acceptance and love towards those who were different. Try to bring them into the fold, yes. But never condemn them. I have been to services where the pastor pretty much said, "believe what I tell you and hate who/what I tell you to b/c if you don't, you'll go to Hell."

Keep in mind, I know that is as blanket statement, and I KNOW not everyone is like that.

i'm catholic and follow an organized religion does that make me a hateful lemming? no! personally i think that gays should be allowed to receive all the same benefit as married heterosexual couples but it SHOULD NOT be called marriage. that is a religious thing. that is something that God created for man and woman. call it a civil union for all i care just not marriage.

Since when was marriage a religious thing? :rolleyes And who came up with this definition of what marriage is?

well in the catholic bible marriage is defined as a union between an man and a woman

I agree w/Married2USAF. Our country IS supposed to have a separation of church and state, but it seems lately that that separation has been getting less and less. That's not what our Founding Fathers wanted.

I can see where the hateful lemmings comment comes into play b/c while I have come across people who are devout and very caring individuals, I've come across more who are "Sunday Christians" (to quote Mark Twain). People who say they follow the Book, but don't. Speaking specifically towards Christianity, why are Christians so hateful towards things they don't agree w/ -- abortion, gay marriage....? Jesus did not teach hatred. He taught acceptance and love towards those who were different. Try to bring them into the fold, yes. But never condemn them. I have been to services where the pastor pretty much said, "believe what I tell you and hate who/what I tell you to b/c if you don't, you'll go to Hell."

Keep in mind, I know that is as blanket statement, and I KNOW not everyone is like that.

Oh my God, thank you. I think that's what Elton John was trying to say in so many words.

well in the catholic bible marriage is defined as a union between an man and a woman

OK, so what about people who don't follow that religion, or any other religion where marriage is defined like that? Again, seperation of church and state (or lackthereof).

Religion is a pretty broad concept. If he'd said "ban christianity" or "ban Judaism", etc...then IMO the idea might warrant an actual thought out response. But he didn't - he said "ban religion"...that is speaking worldwide, and is defined broadly as
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

That's why I find it funny.

Oh my God, thank you. I think that's what Elton John was trying to say in so many words.



OK, so what about people who don't follow that religion, or any other religion where marriage is defined like that? Again, seperation of church and state (or lackthereof).

you asked me where i got marriage is a religious thing...that's where i got it. i'm not saying everyone needs to follow that but i just don't think that a union between a homosexual couple should be called marriage. that's MY OPINON. unfortuantely to some this country is run primarily by rich, white, protestant males which is a form of christianity. we do not have a national religion, we do not tell people they can't practice whatever religion they want to so i would say yes there is a fair amount of separation between church and state

oh and just to add one more thing our laws (no killing, no stealing, no lying on the stand, etc etc) stem from the 10 commandments.

this in and of itself makes our country irreversibly tied to religion in some way shape or form

oh and just to add one more thing our laws (no killing, no stealing, no lying on the stand, etc etc) stem from the 10 commandments.

this in and of itself makes our country irreversibly tied to religion in some way shape or form

That's exactly my point....if this nation is going to be seperated between church and state, then they need to go ALL THE WAY.

The thing w/the 10 Commandments is that there are and were other cultures/religions who had similar laws. No killing, stealing, etc...can be seen as basic moral necessities to keep a civilization running smoothly regardless of religious beliefs.

That's exactly my point....if this nation is going to be seperated between church and state, then they need to go ALL THE WAY.

so do you think we should abolish those laws then to completely separate from church and state?

so do you think we should abolish those laws then to completely separate from church and state?

The point Punchie made (that I really didn't think about) is a valid one....those laws have more to do with running a society than relgion....yes, they stem from religion, but don't have a lot to do with them.
What I'm saying is that if you're going to seperate the two, then do it right...stop printing "In God We Trust" on money, stop making people say "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?" when people swear in, stop playing "God Bless America" as the national anthem....when it comes down to it, I don't believe seperation of church and state is ever going to happen....America is too deeply rooted in religion. I think it's sad that America advocates equality for all, but all too often, that's not the case.
That's just my opinion.

The point Punchie made (that I really didn't think about) is a valid one....those laws have more to do with running a society than relgion....yes, they stem from religion, but don't have a lot to do with them.
What I'm saying is that if you're going to seperate the two, then do it right...stop printing "In God We Trust" on money, stop making people say "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?" when people swear in, stop playing "God Bless America" as the national anthem....when it comes down to it, I don't believe seperation of church and state is ever going to happen....America is too deeply rooted in religion. I think it's sad that America advocates equality for all, but all too often, that's not the case.
That's just my opinion.

do you fundamentally have a problem with in god we trust, swearing in on the bible (which btw you don't have to do you can swear in on which ever is your holy text), and God Bless America as our anthem?

"Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate. The world is near escalating to World War Three and where are the leaders of each religion?

"Why aren't they having a conclave? Why aren't they coming together? I said this after 9/11 and people thought I was nuts. Instead of more violence why isn't there a meeting of religious leaders?" he said.

I agree with this. How many wars have arisen as a direct result of organised religion? On the whole, it seems to do more harm than good, and religious leaders aren't really doing much to stop crimes that are committed on behalf of their religion. :(

I think that Elton John makes a very valid point...while I wouldn't go to the extreme of 'banning' religion, I would limit what effect it has in day-to-day life, such as the gay marriage/civil unions thing.
Unless I missed something, wasn't the government FOR the seperation of church and state? Maybe I'm the only one, but I haven't seen any kind of action taken to even begin to seperate the two.
I swear, sometimes this country is a living contradiction of itself and it's laws.... :no



If this statement right here isn't the truth, I don't know what is.

I completely agree with you! :yes

The thing w/the 10 Commandments is that there are and were other cultures/religions who had similar laws. No killing, stealing, etc...can be seen as basic moral necessities to keep a civilization running smoothly regardless of religious beliefs.

One reason our country is becoming so screwed up, people are losing their morals and WANTing to take God out of everything. It's sad.

One reason our country is becoming so screwed up, people are losing their morals and WANTing to take God out of everything. It's sad.

Having morals and being religious are two completely seperate and unrelated things. You can be religious and have absolutely no morals and vice versa.

One reason our country is becoming so screwed up, people are losing their morals and WANTing to take God out of everything. It's sad.


You don't need God to have morals.

You don't need God to have morals.

No, you don't. But most people that have God DO have morals, NOT ALL, but most people that claim to be Christians have morals.

I know a LOT of people that do not have God and have awesome morals.

i'm catholic and follow an organized religion does that make me a hateful lemming? no! personally i think that gays should be allowed to receive all the same benefit as married heterosexual couples but it SHOULD NOT be called marriage. that is a religious thing. that is something that God created for man and woman. call it a civil union for all i care just not marriage.

how about they banned any sort of public prayer in public schools? that imo is ridiculuous. if you don't want to say the prayer sit out just like if you don't want to say the pledge. i used to go to a catholic private school and we had girls that were in there that were not catholic or even chrisitan. they would just sit down during mass and not partake in communion and such.

if elton john doesn't like the church then don't be a part of it. he's entitled to his opinions but sure as shit don't call me a lemming because i belong to and believe in organized religion

oh and in response to his where are the leaders while world war three is escalating point? they are staying out of government
:yeehaw

No, you don't. But most people that have God DO have morals, NOT ALL, but most people that claim to be Christians have morals.

I know a LOT of people that do not have God and have awesome morals.


So why if religion was banned, would people lose their morals?

IMO, they wouldn't. My husband and I are not religious, and we are some of the nicest, most law-abiding people you'd ever meet.

ALOT (not all, but alot) of the people I have known that are religious, are the biggest hyprocrites I've ever known. Remember, I'm just speaking from my own personal experience, not making a blanket statement.

I think the bottom line is that, people who religious and people who aren't religious - some will have morals, some won't. I don't think its based at all on religion.

So why if religion was banned, would people lose their morals?

IMO, they wouldn't. My husband and I are not religious, and we are some of the nicest, most law-abiding people you'd ever meet.

ALOT (not all, but alot) of the people I have known that are religious, are the biggest hyprocrites I've ever known. Remember, I'm just speaking from my own personal experience, not making a blanket statement.

I think the bottom line is that, people who religious and people who aren't religious - some will have morals, some won't. I don't think its based at all on religion.

I agree.

No, people would not lose their morals if religion was banned. Our country was founded on religion, I don't understand why some people would want to try to take away our freedom to worship.

No, people would not lose their morals if religion was banned. Our country was founded on religion, I don't understand why some people would want to try to take away our freedom to worship.

Well, I don't think you ever have to worry about that happening.

I think his point is that religion should practice what they preach. You are supposed to have love and respect for all people, yet, that is not what is occuring in today's religous societies.

No, people would not lose their morals if religion was banned. Our country was founded on religion, I don't understand why some people would want to try to take away our freedom to worship.

Because historically speaking, religion has caused more harm than good. It started the Crusades. It's caused civil wars in the UK, India, Sri Lanka, France and Isreal, to name a few examples. It has been used as an argument to justify the denial of a womans' right to vote and to prevent the legalisation of abortions in the US and Ireland. President Bush used religion as justification of the 'war on terror'. Guido Fawkes used religion as justification for his attempt to asassinate the King and members of Parliament in 1605. How many people have died as a direct result of religion?

Because historically speaking, religion has caused more harm than good. It started the Crusades. It's caused civil wars in the UK, India, Sri Lanka, France and Isreal, to name a few examples. It has been used as an argument to justify the denial of a womans' right to vote and to prevent the legalisation of abortions in the US and Ireland. President Bush used religion as justification of the 'war on terror'. Guido Fawkes used religion as justification for his attempt to asassinate the King and members of Parliament in 1605. How many people have died as a direct result of religion?

:agree Very well put Sonia!

We obviously have very different POVs. I see religion (mine) as loving and kind and being faithful. I can't speak for anyone else, or why they are hypocrites or why they want to use religion as grounds to fight on. This post could go on for pages and we will never agree with each other. So let's agree to disagree. :)

We obviously have very different POVs. I see religion (mine) as loving and kind and being faithful. I can't speak for anyone else, or why they are hypocrites or why they want to use religion as grounds to fight on. This post could go on for pages and we will never agree with each other. So let's agree to disagree. :)

That's how religion should be, and I think that's how it was originally intended to be (all religions, I mean), but sadly in reality it's not the case.

We obviously have very different POVs. I see religion (mine) as loving and kind and being faithful. I can't speak for anyone else, or why they are hypocrites or why they want to use religion as grounds to fight on. This post could go on for pages and we will never agree with each other. So let's agree to disagree. :)

If all religous people had your views, then I'm sure the world would be a better place. :)

I'm new so I hope my response won't ruffle any feathers..kwim But....my dh and I are not god fearing people. I don't go to church I don't belive in god persay. I just don't. I think there is something more powerful then me yes but in the belief in god I just can't hop on that train. At any rate. I don't think that all religous people are homosexual hating people. It's all in there interpritation of the bible. I don't agree with organized religion it just doesn't make sense to me btu I don't believe in banning religion either. I def think that our country needs to REALLY seperate church and state. They say it's seperate but it's not. It's also something that I don't think will ever happen at least not in my lifetime. As for religious versus nonreligous people and morales. Well I think in every group there are a few bad seeds. I know religous people and non religous people with HORRIBLE morales. I don't think morals are rooted in religion. (pardon all the typos I have a horrible head cold right now) Morals are what you are taught as a child it really has nothing to do with religion at least that has been my experience.

ALOT (not all, but alot) of the people I have known that are religious, are the biggest hyprocrites I've ever known. Remember, I'm just speaking from my own personal experience, not making a blanket statement.


Speaking just on my limited acquaintance/friend base, I have to say I agree with you 110% on that statement. I do not believe that going to church makes someone a better person. Goodness comes from within. A person can go to church and spend hours devoting him/herself to whomever they choose to worship but that does not make them better than folk who aren't openly religious, YET are good decent folk.

I get tired of hearing, separation of church and state. Does anyone really know what that was meant to be? It was meant to protect churches from being taxed by the state... Something to think about. Strange how it's been twisted now.

Anyhow, I honestly don't believe that religion promotes hatred... Unfortunately people are great at misinterpreting thing and they twist things to mean what they want and use it to be hate mongers. I find it funny how people thing Christians hate homosexuals because they don't agree with the lifestyle. But of course it's okay for people to believe in homosexuality. Since when did not agreeing with something make you a hater? There are those who do hate homosexuals and I find it sad that they waste their time with so much hate.

I find it funny how people thing Christians hate homosexuals because they don't agree with the lifestyle. But of course it's okay for people to believe in homosexuality. Since when did not agreeing with something make you a hater?

I don't think anyone was saying that if you don't agree with the lifestyle, that makes you a 'hater'. It's the actions behind it....I've seen a couple of religious groups who's religon has been founded on the grounds of forgivness, tolerance, and love just flat out tell homosexuals that if they continue to live their lives in an 'unholy' way, they're going to hell because it's a sin.
I'm sorry....unless I missed something, the only way you were guaranteed into hell was if (at least in the Christian faith) you didn't accept Christ as your savior.....and what supposedly makes this homosexual 'sin' worse than any other 'sin' committed daily by His followers? I have a problem with organized religion because people do not practice what they preach.....I've found the church to be full of hypocrites, and want absolutely no part of it.

Because historically speaking, religion has caused more harm than good. It started the Crusades. It's caused civil wars in the UK, India, Sri Lanka, France and Isreal, to name a few examples. It has been used as an argument to justify the denial of a womans' right to vote and to prevent the legalisation of abortions in the US and Ireland. President Bush used religion as justification of the 'war on terror'. Guido Fawkes used religion as justification for his attempt to asassinate the King and members of Parliament in 1605. How many people have died as a direct result of religion?
I agree. I couldn't have said it any better myself.

I get tired of hearing, separation of church and state. Does anyone really know what that was meant to be? It was meant to protect churches from being taxed by the state... Something to think about. Strange how it's been twisted now.

Anyhow, I honestly don't believe that religion promotes hatred... Unfortunately people are great at misinterpreting thing and they twist things to mean what they want and use it to be hate mongers. I find it funny how people thing Christians hate homosexuals because they don't agree with the lifestyle. But of course it's okay for people to believe in homosexuality. Since when did not agreeing with something make you a hater? There are those who do hate homosexuals and I find it sad that they waste their time with so much hate.

perfect

For me, you can disagree w/something all you want. Not agreeing w/homosexuality does not make you hater. What does make you a hater in that situation is when you try to force others to your beliefs, tell them they are wrong and damned for their lifestyle, and act threatening/attack those who are homosexual. I'm sure this type of behavior is a minority, but that is what I believe is trying to be expressed here -- hates are ones who actively, and sometimes violently, hate those different from them.

punchie: that's not necessarily only religions though. for example the KKK did that too. they weren't a religion they were just wackos that thought they were better.

Oh definitely. There are other groups out there who are active hate-mongers -- KKK, Aryan Nation... I left them out since the basis of the post is religion and they're not necessarily religious. Though I think the Aryan Nation might have some religious tendancies. I don't remember though.

I know religion, esp Christianity, can get a bad rap when at heart it is a loving and forgiving religion. The problem is that the people who are the loudest tend to be the nasty ones, and NOT the good ones. They're the ones who create such negative conotations.

punchie: that's not necessarily only religions though. for example the KKK did that too. they weren't a religion they were just wackos that thought they were better.

I know religion, esp Christianity, can get a bad rap when at heart it is a loving and forgiving religion. The problem is that the people who are the loudest tend to be the nasty ones, and NOT the good ones. They're the ones who create such negative conotations.

I have personally come across so many of those kinds of people it just caused me to be turned off to organized religion and the Chrisitian faith. No, it's not the majority that feel that way, but enough of them feel that way to make me feel uncomfortable.

Oh definitely. There are other groups out there who are active hate-mongers -- KKK, Aryan Nation... I left them out since the basis of the post is religion and they're not necessarily religious. Though I think the Aryan Nation might have some religious tendancies. I don't remember though.

I know religion, esp Christianity, can get a bad rap when at heart it is a loving and forgiving religion. The problem is that the people who are the loudest tend to be the nasty ones, and NOT the good ones. They're the ones who create such negative conotations.

The KKK considered themselves to be a non-orthodox Christian organisiation. They didn't just target black people, they also targeted Jews, immigrants, and in certain states, Catholics.

Christianity has a bad rep because it has probably caused more death and destruction than any other religion. Look at the civil wars that have occurred through the centuries in Ireland, England, Scotland, Isreal and India. The founders of America came over on the Mayflower because of religious differences - your very country was founded because of people's inability of accept each others religous beliefs. Look at WWII and the more recent 'war on terror' as examples. It's very easy to say that Christianity is loving and forgiving, but history and current affairs contradict that statement.