I was just watching a 2 hr special on Polygamy as a religion. For this show, it was focused on about 50,000 people in Utah that recognize this as a religion. It basically is about women obeying the man. The 2 couples featured, the one man had 3 wives and the other man had 4 wives. They had lots of children too. Even the wives admitted it is about obeying the man. Something about the man feeling he is the runner of his Kingdom. They believe they are moral too. Of course, moral in their own words.

They also discussed how children are sexually abused with this.


I will say that I think this is DISGUSTING!

It'd be one thing if they featured just information on this, but they had women speaking about it. Also women who used to recognize this as a religion but who do not anymore.

This isn't something where you can say "to each their own." If women & children are being sexually abused, how can you say that?

One women said it is like a cult. I agree.

How can you say God intends for you to live your life like this?

Also, if you leave the marriage, you could be forced to leave your children behind. Therefore, many women stay b/c of this and accept it.

The state of Utah doesn't take action b/c these people hide behind stating it's a "religion". Therefore, Utah is afraid to take action.

I know nothing of polygamy, but I think it's weird and sick.

After watching this show & hearing these INSANE, OBSURD, SICKING stories of what they have done w/ children & women, I would seriously not hesitate to disrespect someone on here if they supported it.

It is THAT fucking disturbing.

Thats gross. Theres only one woman I want in my life.

:D

I'm not going to post my opinion yet as I dont feel I know enough about it to form one, but I found this article really interesting:

http://www.slate.com/id/2136453/

I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do
The economic case for polygamy.

After more than a decade of war between separatist rebels and the Russian army, there are not many marriageable men to go around in Chechnya. So, acting Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov, probably not a feminist, proposed a radical step: "Each man who can provide for four wives should do it."

Polygyny (having more than one wife, as opposed to polygamy, which is having more than one spouse) is admissible under Islamic law but not Russian law, so Kadyrov is unlikely to make much progress with his proposal. But what difference would such a law make? It's natural to assume that polygyny is bad for women, partly because most of us would rather have our spouse to ourselves, and partly because we look at a place like Saudi Arabia, where polygyny is not uncommon, and note that women aren't even allowed to drive.

I'm not quite so convinced. A lot of the knee-jerk reactions against polygyny are from people who can't add up. In a society with equal numbers of men and women, each man with four wives gives women the additional pick of three men—the poor saps whose potential wives decided they'd prefer one-quarter of a billionaire instead. In the Sahel region of Africa, half of all women live in polygynous households. The other half have a good choice of men and a lot more bargaining power.


It's hardly surprising that in most polygynous societies, the bride's family gets large payments in exchange for her hand in marriage. If polygyny combined with women's rights, I bet we'd see more promises to wash the dishes. Not everybody would have to share a husband, but I can think of some who might prefer half of Orlando Bloom to all of Tim Harford—including my wife.

In a society such as Chechnya, where there is a shortage of young men, we would expect the reverse effect: Men get to pick and choose, playing the field, perhaps not bothering to get married at all. We don't have good data on Chechnya, but we have excellent information about an unexpected parallel.

A little over one in 100 American men are in prison—but there are several states where one in five young black men are behind bars. Since most women marry men of a similar age, and of the same race and in the same state, there are some groups of women who face a dramatic shortfall of marriage partners.

Economist Kerwin Charles has recently studied the plight of these women. Their problem is not merely that some who would want to marry won't be able to. It's that the available men—those not in prison—suddenly have more bargaining power. Goodbye to doing the dishes and paying the rent; hello to mistresses and wham, bam, thank you ma'am. The women whose potential partners have had their ranks thinned by prison are less likely to marry, and when they do marry, are likely to marry a man less educated than they are. Meanwhile, the remaining men, finding a surfeit of marriage partners, suddenly seem in no hurry to marry. And why would they?

The women's response makes sense: girl power. The women affected do everything to make the most of single life, including staying at school for longer and hunting for more paid work. The American prison system hasn't left them much choice.

When men are taken out of the marriage market by war or by prison, women suffer. The reverse is probably true, too: When women are taken from the marriage market, men suffer. In China, the policy of one-child families coupled with selective abortion of girls has produced "surplus" males. Such men are called "bare branches," and China could have 30 million of them by 2020. Perhaps polyandry—women with multiple husbands—would be the logical response to the situation in China. What will happen instead is that these lonely, wifeless men will end up sleeping with a relatively small number of women—prostitutes—with severe risks of sexually transmitted disease all around.

All this suggests that Kadyrov has a point about Chechnya. And perhaps the new HBO series Big Love will help to rehabilitate polygamy's reputation in the United States. Nevertheless, I am resolutely against the practice of allowing several women to marry one man. We men are downtrodden enough already.


edited to correct my C+P mistakes!!

Nerd :)

A very well informed nerd :P

Zelda, Your talking about what happens in other countries, though.

This is America and at least for the state of Utah, those things do NOT go on as far as the "being paid" money part.

The women stayed home and ran the household.

A very well informed nerd :P


Not you, that was to boatguy ;)

and I will say you are not that informed on this issue. As I'm not, but me watching the 2 hour special w/ women AND men speaking about it & the show stating facts that have happened in history over you getting the link which talks about other countries & not America, I'd have to say your not exactly THAT informed on it. Which I'm not either. Just saying which of the two are you going to go by?

Not trying to be rude...just saying.

Zelda, Your talking about what happens in other countries, though.

This is America and at least for the state of Utah, those things do NOT go on as far as the "being paid" money part.

The women stayed home and ran the household.
As, I said - I cant really give an opinion as I dont know enough about it. I just thought you might find it interesting to read. :dunno

Coming from Utah, I know all to well about Polygamy and Yes it is DISGUSTING. I honestly feel for the children they bring into this world, they are so isolated and treated so cruely. It's amazing to hear what their beliefs are and ways of living. It is just purely sick and wrong.

As, I said - I cant really give an opinion as I dont know enough about it. I just thought you might find it interesting to read. :dunno


Ahhh...sorry, I just got really worked up after watching that show. I was just very moved by it. :)

I think it is disgusting too.
I would never OBEY a man so it wouldn't work for me anyways :P Not to mention the other crap that goes on wouldn't work either
I refused to have obey in my wedding vows too ;)

These people believe it's ok though b/c they feel God ASKED them to do this. HOwever, it seems to be a coverup b/c if that is true, why are women starting to turn away and seek help? I definetely see how it can be viewed as a cult.



(I really would not be a good debator, lol. I'd be screaming and getting too worked up. I'm too passionate when it comes to certain things. I yell to get my point across :lmao)

I don't know anything about it either but thats nuts..

People hide a whole multitude of actions under the guise of religion! I think when it comes to things like polygamy or ploygyny, some people are going to be for it and others will be against it. However, I dont agree with forcing the people who dont agree with it to enter into ploygamous relationships.

I think when it comes to things like polygamy or ploygyny, some people are going to be for it and others will be against it.

And thats what a lot of the men said on the show: "it's not for everyone"...

Which a lady then said that some women will say this (those in this type of "religion") , saying how it's so great, the man is so wonderful to their kids & how great of a husband he is, but really- the women are hiding the issues.

I normally won't get like this when it comes to debates b/c I feel I don't have ALL the knowledge I need to form an exact opinion...but I dont know, this show was just very moving and even Nikki, whose from utah, stated this is true.

There are also instances where the state has tried to interfere.

So it's not all "hearsay".

I saw a show about American polygamists a while back, and I can sincerely say that I was physically ill after watching it. It's just a sick thing, the brainwashing those men do to all those women, ugh.
As far as poligamy in other countries, I really don't know much about them, so I can't really give an informed opinion on that.

I saw something like that on Opera or maybe it was DR. Phil not to long ago. I think its awful. Just awful. Those poor kids dont even know life can be different.

Organized religon is evil. :lol <ducking>

What is it these Polys do to their children? What is the physical and sexual abuse? Is it specific to this one "sect"?

As any sexuality/marital preference goes (like swinging), as long as it's *two consenting adults* involved, have at it.

I should rephrase that. :lol

In the case of poly, whoever is involved, as long as they are consenting adults.

I figure if it is what the man & woman agree on, then so be it! But when it comes to children, ah uh! That is morally & ethically wrong & so very sad! Those poor children! I bet they will have serious emotional issues growing up! :(

I have nothing agasint pologamy. EXCEPT for the people who like in UTAH abuse the system, their children, and each other. IT is disgusting that young girls are bethroed to men 3 times their age, forced to bear children and then depend on the system to help feed and cloth their children.

Now as for everyday people in the world wo pratice polgamy with fellow consentiual of age adults I see nothing wrong with it, considering it was practiced before in the bible until society starting viewing it as wrong and disgusting.

im gonna make my viewpoint short. im married to one man. i couldnt be married to more than one man and i sure as heck wouldnt like it if my hubby had more than one wife. to much jealously involved. at least for me it would be. LOL. but i think its wrong anyway. but im not gonna pass judgement on anyone who does it. but like debra says when it comes to the kids . no way do not abuse them in any way shape or form. and if those adults are consensual about it fine. im not saying im for it though.

What I posted about isn't about couples swinging, in general.

It was about what I watched in regards to what happens in Utah, therefore what is happening in the US all over. How children & women are being treated b/c of this RELIGION. Not b/c the couples are swingers.

well i wasnt referring to swingers . i think that was someone else.

well the only religion i can think of is the M one. but i dont think thats it. is it?

Mormon?

lol, nope that's not it...

ok thats good. i didnt think they would do stuff like that.

I don't know a lot about this and don't know about the children sexually abused. Obviously, if there is abuse that is disgusting and unlawful to boot. However, as far as the idea of polygamy in general there are people who believe in that and feel it is an acceptable lifestyle for them. Also, the "brainwashing" of women to obey their man isn't just a polygamy thing, this happens in other religions and plain old monogamy relationships, abusive or not. It is a religion to them, it is a set of codes, beliefs that they follow. By LAW, the man cannot take the children away from the woman if she decides to leave and give a different life to her children. She stays because according to their RELIGION, the man keeps the kids.
What about the domination of the males over females in the Islamic communities? Is Islam not a viable religion because of these traditions? No, and where religion is NOT law, these can't be upheld by law yet many women stay part of it.
Whether I believe in it or not is not relevant. Also, I doubt that in EVERY polygamist family there is sexual abuse.

well the only religion i can think of is the M one. but i dont think thats it. is it?

Being that i'm LDS (Mormon) I can honestly say its not us, but I can't say its not The Reformed LDS now called Community of Christ. They have alot differnet practices then us.

By LAW, the man cannot take the children away from the woman if she decides to leave and give a different life to her children. She stays because according to their RELIGION, the man keeps the kids.



Also, I doubt that in EVERY polygamist family there is sexual abuse.

Well, my post was about what I watched. I don't know anything about other countries...but I am sure, like you stated, that it goes on and probably WORSE things happen.

As far as what the law is, as I stated before, the state doesn't get invovled now. They tried to YEARS ago but they had women screaming for their husbands & father of their kids, so they let it be. Many women that have left, have created organizations to try to educate these women in these relationships still & are a type of shelter for the women who have ran away.

Also, a representative of the state came on too and stated that sure...they could arrest all these people (as this type of lifestyle is actually ILLEGAL) but then where would they put them?

So someone might bring up, why would those women be screaming for their husbands? Maybe they were happy (I'm sure there might be familys in that religion that do fine & the kids are fine), but maybe a lot of them have that "beaten wife syndrome"- where they were used to their circumstances & life, while not happy inside w/ it, that they panicked.

Men have gotten away w/ the sexual abuse, making 16 yr+ marry them and getting rid of the mother, etc. b/c they CAN. One man killed his daughter b/c he "disciplined her to death". What was his punishment? 23 months or something around that.

Besides there being too many people to imprison, the state is also afraid to get invovled b/c these people cry "religion."

The state doesn't get involved proactively, but if a woman took her husband to court over custody of the children would the courts throw the case out? If a girl brought charges against someone who abused her, would they throw the case out? I guess my issue with this and saying polygamy in general is wrong is that this insufficient punishment issue happens in more than just this when it comes to abuse, etc.

Here is my question on what the state rep said. Is it illegal to marry more than one person or have relationships with mulitple women? If it's illegal to MARRY more than one woman, technically this man would never legally be married to any but one of the woman, so what would they arrest them for? Cheating? (assuming no abuse was reported).

I think what comes out of this is that it is a sad day when the cry of religion supersedes peoples' rights as human beings. I see this issue as not polygamy is wrong, but that the fact that the where there IS a reason for the state to step in and stop something they can't because of the freedoms that this country is based on. That is abuse of a core concept of this country.

I think what comes out of this is that it is a sad day when the cry of religion supersedes peoples' rights as human beings. I see this issue as not polygamy is wrong, but that the fact that the where there IS a reason for the state to step in and stop something they can't because of the freedoms that this country is based on. That is abuse of a core concept of this country.


I totally agree w/ that, Potatocup. Just like this, aren't there other American issues that happen but nothing is done b/c religion is used as an excuse...the government needs to be PC now? My brain isn't working so I can't think off the top of my head any certain case.

I never said Polygamy as far as married couples who are swingers is WRONG...I said what I watched and what is happening in that state & where ever else this might be happening in the US is wrong. They talked very briefly about other states (WI, Iowa, etc) that have this, but they didn't get into it as they don't live in those states.

I will say I think this religion is wrong, however. I think it teaches their children the wrong things. The sons are brought up to view women as what they see and the girls are brought up to feel they need to obey their husband & only care for their family. One boy even said "I can't wait to have 3 wives." :rolleyes That's just my opinion as far as how I see the religion (if abuse isn't happening & women are actually fine w/ their circumstances). If I met someone like this, I wouldn't blast them, but for my stance on it, I don't agree with it.

Also, I wish I could remember exactly what was said, but something along the lines of these people live on welfare since they have so many children & the wives stay at home to care for the house.

I just feel there is SO much more going on w/ this "religion" than just people who feel God wants them to live their life this way.

I will say I think this religion is wrong, however. I think it teaches their children the wrong things. The sons are brought up to view women as what they see and the girls are brought up to feel they need to obey their husband & only care for their family. One boy even said "I can't wait to have 3 wives." :rolleyes

I agree with that too. My problem is that there are many things about several religions that I feel is wrong to teach your children (like intolerance which is I feel is perpetrated throughout almost all religions). Now this particular religion is extreme and I'd be "more against" this religion than others, because I don't see any redeeming qualities, but where do we draw the line on choosing morals and religions for people and dictating what lawful families can teach their children? Now, if unlawful things are happening, that should be treated on a case-by-case basis.

Now this particular religion is extreme and I'd be "more against" this religion than others, because I don't see any redeeming qualities, but where do we draw the line on choosing morals and religions for people and dictating what lawful families can teach their children?

Good question...

Being that i'm LDS (Mormon) I can honestly say its not us, but I can't say its not The Reformed LDS now called Community of Christ. They have alot differnet practices then us.


no dawn i really didnt think it was mormans cause i have an idea of what they believe and i think they used to practice polygamy but i dont know if they still do or not but i know they dont do any of these unspeakable acts against women and children.

Yeah, I've heard also that Mormons believe they can marry more than 1 women?

Again, I know nothing about this religion and have never been told anything bad about it...just that part I was told.

People I've known who are Mormon were only married to 1 person though.

no dawn i really didnt think it was mormans cause i have an idea of what they believe and i think they used to practice polygamy but i dont know if they still do or not but i know they dont do any of these unspeakable acts against women and children.


I said that I am Mormon so I know its not us, but there was a group of memebrs that fell away from the church after Joseph Smith was killed that didn't believe Brigham Young shouldn't be the prophet of the church. So they left and formed the Reformed Latter-Day Saints which have now changed there name to Community of Christ. And they have alot of the same teachings as the old Latter-day Saints did. Yes at one time Mormons were known for having more than 1 spouse but when they got to Utah, in oder for Utah to because a state it couldn't be legal so the church stopped that practice, but the Reformed never did and I'm not sure if they ever have..I don't know alot of there teachings.

The practice is sick sick sick!