View Full Version : Atheists saying religion is bad...


Legs
05-24-2007, 08:54 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070524/ap_on_re_us/atheist_authors

Angry atheists are hot authors

By RACHEL ZOLL, AP Religion Writer
Thu May 24, 2:16 PM

The time for polite debate is over. Militant, atheist writers are making an all-out assault on religious faith and reaching the top of the best-seller list, a sign of widespread resentment over the influence of religion in the world among nonbelievers.


Christopher Hitchens' book, "God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything," has sold briskly ever since it was published last month, and his debates with clergy are drawing crowds at every stop.

Sam Harris was a little-known graduate student until he wrote the phenomenally successful "The End of Faith" and its follow-up, "Letter to a Christian Nation." Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion" and Daniel Dennett's "Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon" struck similar themes — and sold.

"There is something like a change in the Zeitgeist," Hitchens said, noting that sales of his latest book far outnumber those for his earlier work that had challenged faith. "There are a lot of people, in this country in particular, who are fed up with endless lectures by bogus clerics and endless bullying."

Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Theological Seminary, a prominent evangelical school in Pasadena, Calif., said the books' success reflect a new vehemence in the atheist critique.

"I don't believe in conspiracy theories," Mouw said, "but it's almost like they all had a meeting and said, 'Let's counterattack.'"

The war metaphor is apt. The writers see themselves in a battle for reason in a world crippled by superstition. In their view, Muslim extremists, Jewish settlers and Christian right activists are from the same mold, using fairy tales posing as divine scripture to justify their lust for power. Bad behavior in the name of religion is behind some of the most dangerous global conflicts and the terrorist attacks in the U.S., London and Madrid, the atheists say.

As Hitchens puts it: "Religion kills."

The Rev. Douglas Wilson, senior fellow in theology at New Saint Andrews College, a Christian school in Moscow, Idaho, sees the books as a sign of secular panic. He says nonbelievers are finally realizing that, contrary to what they were taught in college, faith is not dead.

Signs of believers' political and cultural might abound.

Religious challenges to teaching evolution are still having an impact, 80 years after the infamous Scopes "Monkey" trial. The dramatic growth in homeschooling and private Christian schools is raising questions about the future of public education. Religious leaders have succeeded in putting some limits on stem-cell research.

And the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision upholding a national ban on a procedure critics call "partial-birth abortion" — the first federal curbs on an abortion procedure in a generation — came after decades of religious lobbying for conservative justices.

"It sort of dawned on the secular establishment that they might lose here," said Wilson, who is debating Hitchens on christianitytoday.com and has written the book "Letter from a Christian Citizen" in response to Harris. "All of this is happening precisely because there's a significant force that they have to deal with."

Indeed, believers far outnumber nonbelievers in America. In an 2005 AP-Ipsos poll on religion, only 2 percent of U.S. respondents said they did not believe in God. Other surveys concluded that 14 percent of Americans consider themselves secular, a term that can include believers who say they have no religion.

Some say liberal outrage over the policies of President Bush is partly fueling sales, even though Hitchens famously supported the invasion of Iraq.

To those Americans, the nation's born-again president is the No. 1 representative of the religious right activists who helped put him in office. Critics see Bush's Christian faith behind some of his worst decisions and his stubborn defense of the war in Iraq.

"There is this general sense that evangelicals have really gained a lot of power in the United States and the Bush administration seems to represent that in some significant ways," said Christian Smith, a sociologist of religion at the University of Notre Dame. "A certain group of people sees it that way and that's really disturbing."

Mouw said conservative Christians are partly to blame for the backlash. The rhetoric of some evangelical leaders has been so strident, they have invited the rebuke, the seminary president said.

"We have done a terrible job of presenting our perspective as a plausible world view that has implications for public life and for education, presenting that in a way that is sensitive to the concerns of people who may disagree," he said. "Whatever may be wrong with Christopher Hitchens attacks on religious leaders, we have certainly already matched it in our attacks."

Given the popularity of the anti-religion books so far, publishers are expected to roll out even more in the future. Lynn Garrett, senior religion editor for Publishers Weekly, says religion has been one of the fastest-growing categories in publishing in the last 15 years, and the rise of books by atheists is "the flip-side of that."

"It was just the time," she said, "for the atheists to take the gloves off."

Alright, what do you all think?

Lilithdrff
05-24-2007, 09:14 PM
I think they're entitled to their opinion, and if people choose to read it, then that's their business.

Legs
05-24-2007, 09:17 PM
I think they're entitled to their opinion, and if people choose to read it, then that's their business.

What makes me laugh is we have one side saying how lack of religion is killing this countries morals and values and the other side saying the SAME thing... what ever happened to "can't we all just get along?".. :grin:

goldilockz
05-24-2007, 09:17 PM
Personally, if I were an athiest, it would bother me how much religion is actually thrown around and used as reasons and excuses for the things the country does.

SIMMYBABEZ
05-24-2007, 09:17 PM
I think it's just the same as people saying we will go to hell if we don't accept god in our life.

It's just as harsh, and it's just a difference of beliefs.

SIMMYBABEZ
05-24-2007, 09:19 PM
Personally, if I were an athiest, it would bother me how much religion is actually thrown around and used as reasons and excuses for the things the country does.

Indeed. Just the whole not being covered by insurance after a storm or whatever the thing is because its "an act of god" is a perfect example. It's absolutely stupid. Not everyone believes that! Religion shouldn't be the base of laws, humanity should.

Lilithdrff
05-24-2007, 09:29 PM
Personally, if I were an athiest, it would bother me how much religion is actually thrown around and used as reasons and excuses for the things the country does.

Indeed. :yes

Veronica
05-24-2007, 09:34 PM
As Hitchens puts it: "Religion kills."

Thats as far as I got. I dont even want to read the rest of the article because that pisses me off. IMO MY religion saved me.

Rileysmom
05-24-2007, 09:37 PM
I think it's just the same as people saying we will go to hell if we don't accept god in our life.

It's just as harsh, and it's just a difference of beliefs.

ITA.

Jen113007
05-24-2007, 09:38 PM
Personally, if I were an athiest, it would bother me how much religion is actually thrown around and used as reasons and excuses for the things the country does.


I agree 100%! :D

Berkley
05-24-2007, 10:02 PM
Personally, if I were an athiest, it would bother me how much religion is actually thrown around and used as reasons and excuses for the things the country does.

I couldn't agre more!

Mindy
05-24-2007, 11:11 PM
I certainly don't agree with what they are saying, but they have a right to say it.

USCGBoxerMom
05-24-2007, 11:14 PM
If people think religion works for them then so be it. I am not an Atheist, but don't believe in religion, however, it is not my place to say that it's bad. Each to their own.

=Mrs.AiNokeA=
05-24-2007, 11:18 PM
Personally, if I were an athiest, it would bother me how much religion is actually thrown around and used as reasons and excuses for the things the country does.

I think it's just the same as people saying we will go to hell if we don't accept god in our life.

It's just as harsh, and it's just a difference of beliefs.

:yes

goldilockz
05-25-2007, 12:06 AM
If people think religion works for them then so be it. I am not an Atheist, but don't believe in religion, however, it is not my place to say that it's bad. Each to their own.

:suspect Did I write that? :suspect :lol

Green~Mammy
05-25-2007, 12:30 AM
Thats as far as I got. I dont even want to read the rest of the article because that pisses me off. IMO MY religion saved me.
I think that in the broader sense yes religion can and does kill people. Think of how MANY wars and terrorists acts are done in the name of G-D. The Crusades, The unrest in the Middle East, The Spanish and English Inquisitions, The slaughter of Jewish people and Pagans in Europe. It happens every day, people kill for the religion they believe to be right.

PatsGirl317
05-25-2007, 12:57 AM
Ah, the irony in extremist religion (or in this case non-religion?...)

Julez
05-25-2007, 01:34 AM
Personally, if I were an athiest, it would bother me how much religion is actually thrown around and used as reasons and excuses for the things the country does.

BINGO! Even though I'm a strong athiest, I knew that in order to sound semi-intelligent when debating religion I had to take some classes that focused on a specific religion. I would bet that most of the wars and conflicts in our written history would not have been if it weren't for religion.

I feel a second Renaissance slowly emerging. As far as I know, there's only ONE religion that hasn't used "religion" as a motivation for war/conflict/skirmish and that's Janism. However, Janism is an athiestistic and asthetic religion. Maybe we could add in the Buddhists too, but I thought they always had some tension with Hindus.

Ashnbri
05-25-2007, 11:02 AM
I think they're entitled to their opinion, and if people choose to read it, then that's their business.

I agree



it would be interesting to read and see what his whole point is and if it makes sense. Who cares wheter they believe in god or not..they think it is right and it wont affect wheter you go to heaven or not.

Alexandra
05-25-2007, 11:28 AM
I enjoyed the article and very much identify with frustration over public policy being dictated by religion!

mara_jade81
05-26-2007, 03:59 AM
I believe in God, I believe in Jesus but honestly I do think that man created religion and that it can be toxic. God/Jesus did not create religion, man did and I honestly believe it is against what God/Jesus wanted. Religion is all the rules and regulations people use to condemn others and that is NOT what Jesus was about.

goldilockz
05-26-2007, 04:15 AM
I believe in God, I believe in Jesus but honestly I do think that man created religion and that it can be toxic. God/Jesus did not create religion, man did and I honestly believe it is against what God/Jesus wanted. Religion is all the rules and regulations people use to condemn others and that is NOT what Jesus was about.

I like your idea here.

=Mrs.AiNokeA=
05-26-2007, 04:19 AM
I believe in God, I believe in Jesus but honestly I do think that man created religion and that it can be toxic. God/Jesus did not create religion, man did and I honestly believe it is against what God/Jesus wanted. Religion is all the rules and regulations people use to condemn others and that is NOT what Jesus was about.

I agree with you that man created religion and yes it can be very toxic. :yes

Wicked
05-26-2007, 04:59 AM
Personally, if I were an athiest, it would bother me how much religion is actually thrown around and used as reasons and excuses for the things the country does.

I am atheist, and it does bother me. I am all for freedom of religion and I think it's great if someone has religion in their lives and it makes them happy. I get frustrated when it is legislated though. Like with gay marriage. The "religious right" claims that gay marriage shouldn't be legal because God said that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and claim that letting gays marry is an infringement on their freedom of religion. It seems to me that since our government "shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion" per the Constitution, marriage should be a legal contract in the eyes of the law, and denying it to anyone based on religious belief is a blatant affront to the Constitution that gives the freedom to pick your own religion to us in the first place.

I think that in the broader sense yes religion can and does kill people. Think of how MANY wars and terrorists acts are done in the name of G-D. The Crusades, The unrest in the Middle East, The Spanish and English Inquisitions, The slaughter of Jewish people and Pagans in Europe. It happens every day, people kill for the religion they believe to be right.

I agree. Wars in the name of religion have resulted in the deaths of BILLIONS of people. The Crusades, the Holocaust, the mess that has been going on in the middle east for centuries... all religious wars, and those three are only a few of the religious wars in our planets history. I don't think ALL religion kills, just that religion has a pretty bloody history when two different sects go head to head.

Although I am atheist, I don't personally subscribe to the whole "militant atheist" way of thinking. I don't believe that I am right and everyone who is religious is wrong. I just believe what I believe based on my own experiences and reasoning. I do think it's about time that atheists organize though. I think that part of the reason why religion has had such a strong influence in the political decisions in our country (and the world) is because religions organize and unite in their cause, while atheists don't. It is a lot easier to push your agenda when you are part of an organized unit. If atheists can finally organize and work together, maybe we can finally get our voices heard as well. The same thing happened with every other minority group that has made strides towards equal rights in this country. When African Americans finally organized and protested int he 60's, they got the right to vote and segregation was outlawed. When the gay and lesbian community finally banded together and started protesting they were finally categorized as a minority and were given protection under the civil rights laws. It took too long in my opinion, but finally it seems that the atheist population is following their lead.

Alexandra
05-26-2007, 05:29 AM
IAlthough I am atheist, I don't personally subscribe to the whole "militant atheist" way of thinking. I don't believe that I am right and everyone who is religious is wrong. I just believe what I believe based on my own experiences and reasoning. I do think it's about time that atheists organize though. I think that part of the reason why religion has had such a strong influence in the political decisions in our country (and the world) is because religions organize and unite in their cause, while atheists don't. It is a lot easier to push your agenda when you are part of an organized unit. If atheists can finally organize and work together, maybe we can finally get our voices heard as well. The same thing happened with every other minority group that has made strides towards equal rights in this country. When African Americans finally organized and protested int he 60's, they got the right to vote and segregation was outlawed. When the gay and lesbian community finally banded together and started protesting they were finally categorized as a minority and were given protection under the civil rights laws. It took too long in my opinion, but finally it seems that the atheist population is following their lead.


I agree! One thing that I saw that I thought was pretty cool was atheists holding a blood drive on the same day that Bush had declared a National Day of Prayer. Their point was that getting a bunch of people to give blood would be a tangible way to help other people - to be doing something to help others instead of just talking about it.