Ok.. so I know Global Warming has been a BIG topic on the board lately. I am watching the 700 club (sometimes watch it because it's encouraging since I don't have a church home here) and they had a special about Global Warming with Live Earth being this past week and all and he said

"Global Warming isn't just Earth it's our Solar System. They don't drive SUV's on Saturn, but the temperature is still going up."

I have to wonder if people are really looking at the BIG picture or just the one here on Earth... I've been saying for a while that Global Warming is a natural cycle for our planet, or solar system, and this universe. The Sun is a burning ball of gas. As it continues burning it gets more and more unstable. I see all of the issues stemming from that location....

any thoughts????

Fantastic point.

I look at history for global warming. I think we helped it along but I do believe that it happened before.

great point steph :)

i totally agree. i think it's something the whole solar system or universe is going through, not just us.

I think that simple statement there can change the way we think about global warming. I mean yes we can still do things to help keep it from getting worse even faster, but I don't see that how we live is going to affect what happens in the end much at all. It's going to happen no matter what we do.

I think that simple statement there can change the way we think about global warming. I mean yes we can still do things to help keep it from getting worse even faster, but I don't see that how we live is going to affect what happens in the end much at all. It's going to happen no matter what we do.

I totally agree.

I think that simple statement there can change the way we think about global warming. I mean yes we can still do things to help keep it from getting worse even faster, but I don't see that how we live is going to affect what happens in the end much at all. It's going to happen no matter what we do.

That is 100% the way I feel.

The earth, the solar system, the universe doesn't care what Man wants.

That's a very interesting point, and I have to agree with that. Looking at the life cycle of a star, it makes perfect sense.

That's a very interesting point, and I have to agree with that. Looking at the life cycle of a star, it makes perfect sense.


yup!! It's a cycle!!

That's a great point. All they "greenies" use the large SUV's as a debate tool but global warming has been going on for many many years and is nothing new.

That's a great point. All they "greenies" use the large SUV's as a debate tool but global warming has been going on for many many years and is nothing new.



Yup! And I'm STILL going to get my SUV!

LOL...you go girl! I could not live with out mine.

We have been in the debate about SUV's I have been talking to friends that own them and wish that the fuel economy was better that is a big consideration for us. We just may end up getting a diesel.

Well, I guess I will be the minority. Global warming is very real, is a huge threat and is definitely impacted by man's behavior. I have yet to see any credible scientific evidence saying otherwise, just propaganda from huge polluters and their paid spokespeople who don't want to have to change their ways.

Well, I guess I will be the minority. Global warming is very real, is a huge threat and is definitely impacted by man's behavior. I have yet to see any credible scientific evidence saying otherwise, just propaganda from huge polluters and their paid spokespeople who don't want to have to change their ways.

I'm of the contrary. I haven't seen any scientific proof that convinces me that it's man causing it, kwim? Not saying you're wrong, just debating a point, k?

The planet's history proves that Earth's atmosphere and climate goes through cycles. Watching stars from a distance proves that suns are not eternal.

I'm of the contrary. I haven't seen any scientific proof that convinces me that it's man causing it, kwim? Not saying you're wrong, just debating a point, k?

The planet's history proves that Earth's atmosphere and climate goes through cycles. Watching stars from a distance proves that suns are not eternal.

:yes I totally agree.

And yes, we do need to "clean up our act" so to say. But that is not the MAIN issue :)

I'm of the contrary. I haven't seen any scientific proof that convinces me that it's man causing it, kwim? Not saying you're wrong, just debating a point, k?

The planet's history proves that Earth's atmosphere and climate goes through cycles. Watching stars from a distance proves that suns are not eternal.


There's no doubt that the earth goes through heating and cooling cycles. But this is extreme. And I've seen evidence that if man restrains his behavior, the earth can heal itself. Who remembers the worry over the eroding ozone layer? We don't hear about it anymore because once people cut down on their use of chloroflurocarbons, the ozone layer was largely able to heal itself.

Basically I believe in tipping point theory, we'll gradually see some changes and then one little temperature degree change will be the straw that broke the camel's back and all hell will break loose.

Also, what do scientisits/environmentalists have to gain by warning us about global warming? Not much that I can see. What do powerful corporations have to gain by making us think there are no risks? A LOT

:yes I totally agree.

And yes, we do need to "clean up our act" so to say. But that is not the MAIN issue :)

Yeah, we are definitely a nasty dirty civilization and could do for a good cleaning up :yes

There's no doubt that the earth goes through heating and cooling cycles. But this is extreme. And I've seen evidence that if man restrains his behavior, the earth can heal itself. Who remembers the worry over the eroding ozone layer? We don't hear about it anymore because once people cut down on their use of chloroflurocarbons, the ozone layer was largely able to heal itself.

Basically I believe in tipping point theory, we'll gradually see some changes and then one little temperature degree change will be the straw that broke the camel's back and all hell will break loose.

Also, what do scientisits/environmentalists have to gain by warning us about global warming? Not much that I can see. What do powerful corporations have to gain by making us think there are no risks? A LOT

The Ice Age was extreme as well.

The Ice Age was extreme as well.

:yes :D

What is this extreme that is being talked about? :thinking
Cause on the news the past year or so its been a LITTLE below average temps where I have been. With the occasional heat wave. Which I remember lasted longer when I was younger.

The Ice Age was extreme as well.

Okay, well regardless if this new warming trend is exacerbated by man's activities (I believe it is), it's still going to be disastrous if the ice caps melt. Low lying cities etc will be destroyed. Don't we want to do our best not to add to the problem, even if some people believe we are not the reason it's happening? How we got here isn't even the central issue (though it's certainly important). We're talking about changes that will occur within our own lifetimes, not some theoretical implication that won't occur for thousands of years.

:yes :D

What is this extreme that is being talked about? :thinking
Cause on the news the past year or so its been a LITTLE below average temps where I have been. With the occasional heat wave. Which I remember lasted longer when I was younger.

They (they who? I don't know... global warming advocates?) claim that the cooler winters and summers is because the ice caps are melting and making the oceans colder. Makes sense.

Still doesn't change the fact that nothing Man can do will prevent another Ice Age or prevent Earth turning into another Red Planet.

enough greenhouse gases in the atmosphere can have a cooling effect on the Earth because the sunlight reflects off the high levels of greenhouse gases and cools the Earth

Okay, well regardless if this new warming trend is exacerbated by man's activities (I believe it is), it's still going to be disastrous if the ice caps melt. Low lying cities etc will be destroyed. Don't we want to do our best not to add to the problem, even if some people believe we are not the reason it's happening? How we got here isn't even the central issue (though it's certainly important). We're talking about changes that will occur within our own lifetimes, not some theoretical implication that won't occur for thousands of years.

I also stated up there that Man could do well by cleaning up his act. Does that answer the question?

:yes :D

What is this extreme that is being talked about? :thinking
Cause on the news the past year or so its been a LITTLE below average temps where I have been. With the occasional heat wave. Which I remember lasted longer when I was younger.


This is what has been happening recently:

We’re already seeing changes. Glaciers are melting, plants and animals are being forced from their habitat, and the number of severe storms and droughts is increasing.

- The number of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes has almost doubled in the last 30 years.

- Malaria has spread to higher altitudes in places like the Colombian Andes, 7,000 feet above sea level.

- The flow of ice from glaciers in Greenland has more than doubled over the past decade.

- At least 279 species of plants and animals are already responding to global warming, moving closer to the poles.

(Info found on Al Gore's website)

Its funny how you hear "the temps are going up such and such degrees". Then you hear "its slowly cooling".
Sounds rather normal to me. I think that there is just alot more knowledge and information available to people so they come up with all kinds of theorys and what not.

This is what has been happening recently:

We’re already seeing changes. Glaciers are melting, plants and animals are being forced from their habitat, and the number of severe storms and droughts is increasing.

- The number of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes has almost doubled in the last 30 years.

- Malaria has spread to higher altitudes in places like the Colombian Andes, 7,000 feet above sea level.

- The flow of ice from glaciers in Greenland has more than doubled over the past decade.

- At least 279 species of plants and animals are already responding to global warming, moving closer to the poles.

(Info found on Al Gore's website)

i can't speak for the others but the hurricane one i can specifically say that there is enough proof that the hurricanes increasing in intensity are part of a 25-30 year cycle of stronger hurricanes

enough greenhouse gases in the atmosphere can have a cooling effect on the Earth because the sunlight reflects off the high levels of greenhouse gases and cools the Earth

Your information is contradictory to what I found:

Carbon dioxide and other gases warm the surface of the planet naturally by trapping solar heat in the atmosphere.

Its funny how you hear "the temps are going up such and such degrees". Then you hear "its slowly cooling".
Sounds rather normal to me. I think that there is just alot more knowledge and information available to people so they come up with all kinds of theorys and what not.

I agree.



In the last 30 years, hurricane tracking technology has improved TREMENDOUSLY. So OF COURSE they will be able to witness more cat 4 and 5's.

Your information is contradictory to what I found:

Carbon dioxide and other gases warm the surface of the planet naturally by trapping solar heat in the atmosphere.

If it traps heat, it goes without saying that it probably reflects it as well.

And really, the bottom line is that Global Warming is a theory.

I just want to know why people don't trust scientists. They know more about this stuff than we do. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), this era of global warming "is unlikely to be entirely natural in origin" and "the balance of evidence suggests a discernible human influence of the global climate." That's enough for me to believe that global warming is real.

Your information is contradictory to what I found:

Carbon dioxide and other gases warm the surface of the planet naturally by trapping solar heat in the atmosphere.

there are two different by products that could occur from greenhouse gases. your scenario which is a fav of global warming proponents. mine is one that was spoken by a physical geographer who does a ton of research on global warming who was a professor at my university (And we all know how liberal universities are ;)) either scenario can happen

I just want to know why people don't trust scientists. They know more about this stuff than we do. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), this era of global warming "is unlikely to be entirely natural in origin" and "the balance of evidence suggests a discernible human influence of the global climate." That's enough for me to believe that global warming is real.

key phrase is bolded. entirely, so why can't it just be a natural cycle that has yes been excacerbated by humans but not entirely at fault

This is what has been happening recently:

We’re already seeing changes. Glaciers are melting, plants and animals are being forced from their habitat, and the number of severe storms and droughts is increasing.

- The number of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes has almost doubled in the last 30 years.

- Malaria has spread to higher altitudes in places like the Colombian Andes, 7,000 feet above sea level.

- The flow of ice from glaciers in Greenland has more than doubled over the past decade.

- At least 279 species of plants and animals are already responding to global warming, moving closer to the poles.

(Info found on Al Gore's website)

The glaciers have been melting for YEARS, ever since the ice age ended.
The hurricane are better studied, and followed and the coastal areas are more populated.
Malaria could be spreading because of the amount of people that travel now. We have access to the WORLD. People who traveled the world before were explorers now its a vacation.
Animals are being forced out of their enviroments because of man, yes absolutely, because man is building at high rates all over. The only places man hasnt tried to build is the poles :lol

I just want to know why people don't trust scientists. They know more about this stuff than we do. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), this era of global warming "is unlikely to be entirely natural in origin" and "the balance of evidence suggests a discernible human influence of the global climate." That's enough for me to believe that global warming is real.

Uhm, I do. I trust that they know stars aren't eternal and I trust that they knew that the Ice Age was not man's doing and I trust that they are aware that the Earth goes through cyclic changes.

I didn't dream all that up, that's all science.

key phrase is bolded. entirely, so why can't it just be a natural cycle that has yes been excacerbated by humans but not entirely at fault


I guess to me it doesn't matter whether we were headed towards a warmer period naturally. The statement about a discernible human impact is enough for me to feel that the human race bears responsibility for the problem.

did you know that if we gave up our cars and all raised cows and had the equivalent number of cows and other farm animals per person as we do cars the greenhouse gas numbers would be just as high

ETA: once again that's from my prof

Uhm, I do. I trust that they know stars aren't eternal and I trust that they knew that the Ice Age was not man's doing and I trust that they are aware that the Earth goes through cyclic changes.

I didn't dream all that up, that's all science.


Okay, so why do you trust those scientists but not the ones who warn us about global warming? Do you think they have some sort of agenda in making us think we are responsible for global warming when we are not?

did you know that if we gave up our cars and all raised cows and had the equivalent number of cows and other farm animals per person as we do cars the greenhouse gas numbers would be just as high

ETA: once again that's from my prof

That would be equally irresponsbile IMO. One of the reasons I don't eat beef.

i think that global warming is a semi (at least semi) political agenda that is used to get votes and whatnot

That would be equally irresponsbile IMO. One of the reasons I don't eat beef.

i brought up that point because so many people want us to give up our big cars or vehicles unless they are hybrids and they don't want us to travel or use oil or anything because of all the possible greenhouse gases that are emitted. even if we went back to raising our own animals and everything we'd still have a high level of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere

i think that global warming is a semi (at least semi) political agenda that is used to get votes and whatnot

I agree it's become political, which it never should have been IMO. But I believe it is political because of pressure from big polluters who don't want to have to go green, pay fines, etc to muddle the issue, make it look as though the science is hazy when most scientists will tell you it's clear.

Okay, so why do you trust those scientists but not the ones who warn us about global warming? Do you think they have some sort of agenda in making us think we are responsible for global warming when we are not?

Because just as you have your right to choose to believe Global Warming is caused by humans based on your scientific facts, I get to choose to believe it isn't based on my scientific facts.

This is where debates go down the wrong road. People start saying "Why don't you believe MY side???"

That would be equally irresponsbile IMO. One of the reasons I don't eat beef.

That's part of the reason I do eat beef. Keep them cows from gassing up my atmosphere :giggle (just joking around with that one ok? not picking on you for not eating beef)

i think that global warming is a semi (at least semi) political agenda that is used to get votes and whatnot

:thumbsup There ya go! I agree. :)

i brought up that point because so many people want us to give up our big cars or vehicles unless they are hybrids and they don't want us to travel or use oil or anything because of all the possible greenhouse gases that are emitted. even if we went back to raising our own animals and everything we'd still have a high level of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere


I really don't know what one has to do with another. Because cattle and SUVs are both bad for the enviropment, I shouldn't get a hybrid?

I really don't know what one has to do with another. Because cattle and SUVs are both bad for the enviropment, I shouldn't get a hybrid?

She never said you shouldn't get a hybrid. Her point, if I'm not mistaken, is that it has to do with us being made to feel like we're destroyers of the universe because we drive F250s and stuff. Which by the way, I use to pull my horse and cattle trailer.

Because just as you have your right to choose to believe Global Warming is caused by humans based on your scientific facts, I get to choose to believe it isn't based on my scientific facts.

This is where debates go down the wrong road. People start saying "Why don't you believe MY side???"




I don't think it has to go down the road. I was more just looking for links or sources to the science that led you to form your opinion.

Oops double post.

Triple post! :arg

Because just as you have your right to choose to believe Global Warming is caused by humans based on your scientific facts, I get to choose to believe it isn't based on my scientific facts.

This is where debates go down the wrong road. People start saying "Why don't you believe MY side???"




I don't think it has to go down that road. I was more just looking for links or sources to the science that led you to form your opinion.

I really don't know what one has to do with another. Because cattle and SUVs are both bad for the enviropment, I shouldn't get a hybrid?

did i ever say you shouldn't get a hybrid...uh....NO!!!!

wtf double posts :lol

I really don't know what one has to do with another. Because cattle and SUVs are both bad for the enviropment, I shouldn't get a hybrid?

did i ever say you shouldn't get a hybrid...uh...NO

I don't think it has to go down the road. I was more just looking for links or sources to the science that led you to form your opinion.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood the way you worded the questions. The "do you think they have some sort of agenda" comment was what threw me.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood the way you worded the questions. The "do you think they have some sort of agenda" comment was what threw me.


No, I am curious. You know there are many scientists who have reached their conclusions about man's role in global warming and you don't agree with them. I was wondering if you attributed the disconnect to some flaw in their science or to some political agenda or something. Basically, everyone has the same scientific evidence to work with. They came to one conclusion and you to another. I am wondering why you think that is.

Well I heard it was the cows poop that was causing global warming.

Personally whats gonna happen is gonna happen no matter what.

wtf double posts :lol

Sorry! SOS wouldn't load for me and so I kept hitting post. Bad idea :arg

Sorry! SOS wouldn't load for me and so I kept hitting post. Bad idea :arg

did it to me too :giggle

Sorry! SOS wouldn't load for me and so I kept hitting post. Bad idea :arg

Yeah that one was an edited post cause it was a double as well :lol

did i ever say you shouldn't get a hybrid...uh...NO

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood what you wrote. I think I am still misunderstanding it. Are you just saying you don't like when environmentalists try to make you feel guilty?

Sorry! SOS wouldn't load for me and so I kept hitting post. Bad idea :arg

SOS is being a pain for me too. Lots of pages not loading

No, I am curious. You know there are many scientists who have reached their conclusions about man's role in global warming and you don't agree with them. I was wondering if you attributed the disconnect to some flaw in their science or to some political agenda or something. Basically, everyone has the same scientific evidence to work with. They came to one conclusion and you to another. I am wondering why you think that is.

Well, if it weren't right before sleepy time and I felt up to it, I would definitely go looking for my evidence, but I just don't wanna. Maybe tomorrow if it's slow at work I'll post a thread. I'm too tired right now.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood what you wrote. I think I am still misunderstanding it. Are you just saying you don't like when environmentalists try to make you feel guilty?

Yes





Also, just wanted to say that I DO think Al Gore has an agenda. Those facts come off of HIS site, and I would rather they came from a scientific journal or something, kwim? He IS a politician after all.

Yes





Also, just wanted to say that I DO think Al Gore has an agenda. Those facts come off of HIS site, and I would rather they came from a scientific journal or something, kwim? He IS a politician after all.

I understand that. Unfortunately that was the first website I could think to go to get some soundbites for a thread that, until I started posting, was pretty one sided about a suspicion of global warming claims.

Yeah I think it is a cycle, I think the Earth is younger than what is the popular belief so that means we'd cycle faster than scientists project. I've also seen things that show the solar system is all heating up not just Earth.

Although I do think we need to be responsible and recycle, conserve energy, etc. even if global warming is nothing but a bunch of political propaganda (which I think largely it is).

I guess to me it doesn't matter whether we were headed towards a warmer period naturally. The statement about a discernible human impact is enough for me to feel that the human race bears responsibility for the problem.

I'm just wondering if we can blame the dinosaurs for the last iceage?? Because if that's so then I guess we could blame ourselves, but I highly doubt that 6 billion people spread out over our planet (which is quite large if you think about it) could manage to destroy it all on our own.

i think that global warming is a semi (at least semi) political agenda that is used to get votes and whatnot

Couldn't agree more! It's amazing how one scientists theory can cause a bandwagon effect and all of a sudden we're going through another cold war.

Yeah I think it is a cycle, I think the Earth is younger than what is the popular belief so that means we'd cycle faster than scientists project. I've also seen things that show the solar system is all heating up not just Earth.

Although I do think we need to be responsible and recycle, conserve energy, etc. even if global warming is nothing but a bunch of political propaganda (which I think largely it is).


I agree we can conserve energy and recycle and keep our planet clean.

We can't stop the way we live because someone thinks that because we use too much oil that we are the reason our planet's environment is going down the crapper! There are far more important things right now that could be tended to that we actually CAN have an effect on!!

enough greenhouse gases in the atmosphere can have a cooling effect on the Earth because the sunlight reflects off the high levels of greenhouse gases and cools the Earth

Greenhouse gases trap MORE heat from the sun in the earth's atmosphere, so the earth would heat up.

And really, the bottom line is that Global Warming is a theory.

Yes, but a theory requires massive amounts of evidence, testing and retesting that back it up. A theory in biology is the equivalent of a law in chemistry or physics. So it's not "just" a theory.

I did a paper on global warming and it's effects on the oceans (sea level rises because of the melting of ice caps, etc) for my marine biology class last semester, and did a lot of research on it. Before I could even go into the bulk of my paper I had to discuss what causes global warming and provide evidence that it is, indeed, occurring. Anyway, feel like a complete nerd here, but here are the first couple of paragraphs I wrote-I have five pages of information if anyone is interested. Although the issue has become political, I don't think that we can really ignore the facts at this point. What we do today affects the earth our children will live in tomorrow, you know?
Yes, I did get some of my information from a book written by Al Gore, and I know you sometimes have to take what you hear, or read, with a grain of salt, but I think that there's no denying the numbers here. (And most of his data was from the UN's IPCC, which is, quite obviously, a reputable source.)


Global warming occurs when carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases (including methane, water vapor, and nitrous oxide,) accumulate in the atmosphere, trapping more heat from the sun and causing global temperatures to rise. There is a general consensus within the scientific community that global warming is occurring, and has been since the industrial revolution began in the 1750s, primarily due to the burning of fossil fuels, deforestation, and the emission of carbon dioxide by vehicles. Global temperatures have corresponded to the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which had, for the past 1000 years, been stable, at 275-285 parts per million, not deviating more than 10ppm in either direction and never rising above 300ppm within the last 650,000 years, as far back as could be tested with current technology (Gore 66). Within the last century, however, the carbon dioxide levels have shot up 100ppm; the current atmospheric concentration is 380ppm, and, according to the UN’S IPCC, or Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, if we continue on the path we’re on now, may rise to 450-550ppm by 2100. Global temperatures have increased by just under 1 degree Celsius; while 1 may sound insignificant, it is far from it. Warming is not proportionate across the planet, and some areas, particularly near the tropics, may not experience a noticeable temperature change, while the Arctic and Antarctic are warming considerably more. Also, the temperature difference between warm periods and ice ages were only around 5-6 degrees Celsius, and the IPCC expects a further increase by between 1.6-5.5 degrees Celsius by 2100 (Handwerk). Experts predict up to 30% of species will be unable to migrate or acclimate to the changes and become extinct (James).
Although many people are aware that humans are changing the global climate, they may not understand all of the possible consequences, particularly those felt in the oceans. As carbon dioxide increases in the atmosphere, more will be absorbed into the oceans, acidifying our waters in the process. In the past 40 years, the oceans’ surface waters have warmed by .5 degrees Celsius, which affects sea life and increases the volume of the water, which expands as it warms (Gilardin). Coupled with the melting of land-based ice, particularly in Greenland and Antarctica, sea levels have risen 10-25 cm in the last 100 years, and are predicted to rise 50-90cm more by the end of the century (Evans). Ocean storms, such as hurricanes, are fueled by warmer water and humidity and may intensify. In addition, the warming, as well as the freshening of the ocean, caused by the melting of glaciers, may slow or even stop the ocean conveyor, which is responsible for circulating ocean currents and plays a large role in the earth’s climate by transporting heat in the process.

I'm just wondering if we can blame the dinosaurs for the last iceage?? Because if that's so then I guess we could blame ourselves, but I highly doubt that 6 billion people spread out over our planet (which is quite large if you think about it) could manage to destroy it all on our own.


Dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago. The last ice age was 12,000 years ago.

I did a paper on global warming and it's effects on the oceans (sea level rises because of the melting of ice caps, etc) for my marine biology class last semester, and did a lot of research on it. Before I could even go into the bulk of my paper I had to discuss what causes global warming and provide evidence that it is, indeed, occurring. Anyway, feel like a complete nerd here, but here are the first couple of paragraphs I wrote-I have five pages of information if anyone is interested. Although the issue has become political, I don't think that we can really ignore the facts at this point. What we do today affects the earth our children will live in tomorrow, you know?
Yes, I did get some of my information from a book written by Al Gore, and I know you sometimes have to take what you hear, or read, with a grain of salt, but I think that there's no denying the numbers here. (And most of his data was from the UN's IPCC, which is, quite obviously, a reputable source.)


Global warming occurs when carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases (including methane, water vapor, and nitrous oxide,) accumulate in the atmosphere, trapping more heat from the sun and causing global temperatures to rise. There is a general consensus within the scientific community that global warming is occurring, and has been since the industrial revolution began in the 1750s, primarily due to the burning of fossil fuels, deforestation, and the emission of carbon dioxide by vehicles. Global temperatures have corresponded to the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which had, for the past 1000 years, been stable, at 275-285 parts per million, not deviating more than 10ppm in either direction and never rising above 300ppm within the last 650,000 years, as far back as could be tested with current technology (Gore 66). Within the last century, however, the carbon dioxide levels have shot up 100ppm; the current atmospheric concentration is 380ppm, and, according to the UN’S IPCC, or Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, if we continue on the path we’re on now, may rise to 450-550ppm by 2100. Global temperatures have increased by just under 1 degree Celsius; while 1 may sound insignificant, it is far from it. Warming is not proportionate across the planet, and some areas, particularly near the tropics, may not experience a noticeable temperature change, while the Arctic and Antarctic are warming considerably more. Also, the temperature difference between warm periods and ice ages were only around 5-6 degrees Celsius, and the IPCC expects a further increase by between 1.6-5.5 degrees Celsius by 2100 (Handwerk). Experts predict up to 30% of species will be unable to migrate or acclimate to the changes and become extinct (James).
Although many people are aware that humans are changing the global climate, they may not understand all of the possible consequences, particularly those felt in the oceans. As carbon dioxide increases in the atmosphere, more will be absorbed into the oceans, acidifying our waters in the process. In the past 40 years, the oceans’ surface waters have warmed by .5 degrees Celsius, which affects sea life and increases the volume of the water, which expands as it warms (Gilardin). Coupled with the melting of land-based ice, particularly in Greenland and Antarctica, sea levels have risen 10-25 cm in the last 100 years, and are predicted to rise 50-90cm more by the end of the century (Evans). Ocean storms, such as hurricanes, are fueled by warmer water and humidity and may intensify. In addition, the warming, as well as the freshening of the ocean, caused by the melting of glaciers, may slow or even stop the ocean conveyor, which is responsible for circulating ocean currents and plays a large role in the earth’s climate by transporting heat in the process.

Thank you for sharing Amy. I'm glad I'm not the only person on SOS on this side of the debate.

We can't stop the way we live because someone thinks that because we use too much oil that we are the reason our planet's environment is going down the crapper! There are far more important things right now that could be tended to that we actually CAN have an effect on!!

I disagree. In my opinion, this is the single most important issue facing the human race today. We can change our behavior, it's a question of will. And refusing to change will alter our way of life much more drastically when the shit really starts to hit the fan than making a few lifestyle changes like carpooling, riding bikes and exploring source of renewable energy.

Thank you for sharing Amy. I'm glad I'm not the only person on SOS on this side of the debate.

I'm right there with you.

I disagree. In my opinion, this is the single most important issue facing the human race today. We can change our behavior, it's a question of will. And refusing to change will alter our way of life much more drastically when the shit really starts to hit the fan than making a few lifestyle changes like carpooling, riding bikes and exploring source of renewable energy.

Exactly! And quite honestly, whether global warming is real or not (and I do firmly believe it's real), we should all be cautious about what we're doing to the only world we have anyway. Once it's gone or ruined, we have nothing left. I don't want our children or grandchild or even great great great great great grandchildren to have to bear that burden. We can start making changes now, so why not?

SOS is being a pain for me too. Lots of pages not loading

I was doing some maintenance last night :)

Yes, but a theory requires massive amounts of evidence, testing and retesting that back it up. A theory in biology is the equivalent of a law in chemistry or physics. So it's not "just" a theory.

:yes

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood what you wrote. I think I am still misunderstanding it. Are you just saying you don't like when environmentalists try to make you feel guilty?

yes i don't like companies and all that telling me that i'm a horrible person for driving an SUV or a truck.

I disagree. In my opinion, this is the single most important issue facing the human race today. We can change our behavior, it's a question of will. And refusing to change will alter our way of life much more drastically when the shit really starts to hit the fan than making a few lifestyle changes like carpooling, riding bikes and exploring source of renewable energy.

hun let me tell you a little story about carpooling that i've seen with my own eyes. downtown houston (and i can only speak for houston) the public transit system is not nearly large enough to to handle the massive amount so people going north, south, east and west from downtown at rush hour. it takes over an hour and a half on a regular basis to be able to get a seat on a bus to get home and the ride is an hour+. why should you have to stand for a minimum of 2+ hours because the public transportation can't keep up with the flow. sure they could add more buses but then wwould'n't these big huge metro buses add MORE pollution to the atmosphere? uh..yes. also do you want to ride a bike in rush hour traffic to work everyday? i don't know about you but i wouldn't, unless i worked less than 10 minutes from my home and if you live in the south you better hope you can take a shower there in the summer or have time to get ready there when it's pouring down rain. i'll give you the exploring new sources of energy one because i agree we should look into other sources of energy but until we can make it as "cost effective" and get people not scared of that new technology then it won't happen

Public transportation in DC only goes out so far, and then it's another 30 minutes to home for me.

hun let me tell you a little story about carpooling that i've seen with my own eyes. downtown houston (and i can only speak for houston) the public transit system is not nearly large enough to to handle the massive amount so people going north, south, east and west from downtown at rush hour. it takes over an hour and a half on a regular basis to be able to get a seat on a bus to get home and the ride is an hour+. why should you have to stand for a minimum of 2+ hours because the public transportation can't keep up with the flow. sure they could add more buses but then wwould'n't these big huge metro buses add MORE pollution to the atmosphere? uh..yes. also do you want to ride a bike in rush hour traffic to work everyday? i don't know about you but i wouldn't, unless i worked less than 10 minutes from my home and if you live in the south you better hope you can take a shower there in the summer or have time to get ready there when it's pouring down rain. i'll give you the exploring new sources of energy one because i agree we should look into other sources of energy but until we can make it as "cost effective" and get people not scared of that new technology then it won't happen


I didn't even mention public transportation (though I do think it's a great way to help the environment) I said carpooling, as in riding in the same car as a work colleague if you live near one another. When I found out someone in DH's squad lives in our apartment complex, I suggested they carpool to PT. It's worked out great and has no downside that I can think of. It's obviously not always feasible to ride a bike, but it would be nice if people considered it as an option for certain short, safe trips. I think people get hung up on the enormity of the problem and don't think of little ways they can help. In our house we started cleaning with a vinegar and water solution and use rags instead of paper towels. It really hasn't represented a drastic lifestyle change

yes i don't like companies and all that telling me that i'm a horrible person for driving an SUV or a truck.

I guess I see it differently. I don't look at it like they are condemning me for some of my choices (there are definitely things I could do to be more earth friendly). I look at it as they are trying to bring something to my attention that could be a simple change for me. I think they are looking to inspire, not make people feel bad and guilty.

I didn't even mention public transportation (though I do think it's a great way to help the environment) I said carpooling, as in riding in the same car as a work colleague if you live near one another. When I found out someone in DH's squad lives in our apartment complex, I suggested they carpool to PT. It's worked out great and has no downside that I can think of. It's obviously not always feasible to ride a bike, but it would be nice if people considered it as an option for certain short, safe trips. I think people get hung up on the enormity of the problem and don't think of little ways they can help. In our house we started cleaning with a vinegar and water solution and use rags instead of paper towels. It really hasn't represented a drastic lifestyle change

it is hard for someone to look at the feasability of carpooling when everyone works different schedules. my grandma carpooled and they met at a mid-point but if my grandma had to stay 30 minutes late she lost her ride kwim? i can find an argument for rags too "collect more bacteria and you push that around", that being said we usually clean with a sponge but for big stuff we still use a paper towel do i think that i'm going to ruin our environment....nope. we recycle and we do our best to conserve energy and all that too.

Hybrids won't pull my horse trailer, so what do "they" recommend for that?

I guess I see it differently. I don't look at it like they are condemning me for some of my choices (there are definitely things I could do to be more earth friendly). I look at it as they are trying to bring something to my attention that could be a simple change for me. I think they are looking to inspire, not make people feel bad and guilty.

i don't like it constantly in my face that oh look at this new hybrid or look at that new hybrid. i looked at getting a hybrid simply for gas mileage when i would be driving back and forth to school but on the other hand until that technology gets cheaper i won't be buying one.

I guess I see it differently. I don't look at it like they are condemning me for some of my choices (there are definitely things I could do to be more earth friendly). I look at it as they are trying to bring something to my attention that could be a simple change for me. I think they are looking to inspire, not make people feel bad and guilty.

Explain to me how I am supposed to PCS 3000+ miles with 2 kids, 3 dogs a bird and a cat, my DH and all our stuff in a Hybrid "rollerskate"?

It's not a simple change, it's a total lifestyle change, it's near impossible. Until they make a hybrid big enough to do all of the above and tow...I will stay in my gas guzzler.

Look, no one is claiming there won't be inconveniences or exceptions. It's just frustrating to me when people say "well, I can't make a change in the vehicle I drive so I'm not interested in making any changes in my lifestyle at all" Everyone can change something.

If something is important to you, you make inconveniences for it. My DH is obviously extremely important to me, so I incorporate crazy inconveniences into my life in order to be with him (three moves in less than a year? Ugh) Being earth friendly is extremely important to me, respect for the earth is actually one of the tenets of my Unitarian Universalist church.

Also, I feel good about myself when I make an earth friendly choice. So it's a trade off - if I used ten paper towels to clean up a spill, I would feel guilty about it. I'd rather be inconvenienced to find another way to do it and not deal with those feelings of guilt.

I am sorry but comparing my DH and the inconveniences I do for him and the USCG and our marriage and me going "green" is like apples and oranges.

I am sorry but comparing my DH and the inconveniences I do for him and the USCG and our marriage and me going "green" is like apples and oranges.


I compared nothing about you and your DH. I said my DH and me. And to me, both are important.

I compared nothing about you and your DH. I said my DH and me. And to me, both are important.


I know you said yours I was just saying that comparing the two was like apples an oranges. Agreed both my be important but doing stuff for your DH is totally different than going green.

I don't think being "Semper Gumby" for my DH is quite the same as choosing
cloth over paper towels, or trading my SUV for a smart car. KWIM?

I don't think winters are more cold. At least going by where I am from, the midwest. From what I have seen as the years go on, the snow comes less and less...

southern winters are getting colder and colder now.

I know you said yours I was just saying that comparing the two was like apples an oranges. Agreed both my be important but doing stuff for your DH is totally different than going green.

I don't think being "Semper Gumby" for my DH is quite the same as choosing
cloth over paper towels, or trading my SUV for a smart car. KWIM?

I agree that they're different. I was just trying to make the point that if something is important to you, you make sacrifices. I'll use an example on the other end of "level of importance": Say there are three Starbucks within a 5 minute drive from me, but only the one 15 minutes away has cinnamon apple cider and I love cinnamon apple cider. It's a sacrifice to go out of my way to get the cider, but it's a worthwhile sacrifice to me.

That is 100% the way I feel.

The earth, the solar system, the universe doesn't care what Man wants.

Exactly, "global warming" is a gimmick.

Going 15 miles out of your way for your favorite apple cinnamon thing isn't "going green". It's burning fuel and polluting so that you can have that sweet treat instead of "sacrificing".

I know it was just an example, but it wasn't a good one for this debate, kwim?

Going 15 miles out of your way for your favorite apple cinnamon thing isn't "going green". It's burning fuel and polluting so that you can have that sweet treat instead of "sacrificing".

I know it was just an example, but it wasn't a good one for this debate, kwim?

What if I was riding my bike?

I did a paper on global warming and it's effects on the oceans (sea level rises because of the melting of ice caps, etc) for my marine biology class last semester, and did a lot of research on it. Before I could even go into the bulk of my paper I had to discuss what causes global warming and provide evidence that it is, indeed, occurring. Anyway, feel like a complete nerd here, but here are the first couple of paragraphs I wrote-I have five pages of information if anyone is interested. Although the issue has become political, I don't think that we can really ignore the facts at this point. What we do today affects the earth our children will live in tomorrow, you know?
Yes, I did get some of my information from a book written by Al Gore, and I know you sometimes have to take what you hear, or read, with a grain of salt, but I think that there's no denying the numbers here. (And most of his data was from the UN's IPCC, which is, quite obviously, a reputable source.)


Global warming occurs when carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases (including methane, water vapor, and nitrous oxide,) accumulate in the atmosphere, trapping more heat from the sun and causing global temperatures to rise. There is a general consensus within the scientific community that global warming is occurring, and has been since the industrial revolution began in the 1750s, primarily due to the burning of fossil fuels, deforestation, and the emission of carbon dioxide by vehicles. Global temperatures have corresponded to the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which had, for the past 1000 years, been stable, at 275-285 parts per million, not deviating more than 10ppm in either direction and never rising above 300ppm within the last 650,000 years, as far back as could be tested with current technology (Gore 66). Within the last century, however, the carbon dioxide levels have shot up 100ppm; the current atmospheric concentration is 380ppm, and, according to the UN’S IPCC, or Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, if we continue on the path we’re on now, may rise to 450-550ppm by 2100. Global temperatures have increased by just under 1 degree Celsius; while 1? may sound insignificant, it is far from it. Warming is not proportionate across the planet, and some areas, particularly near the tropics, may not experience a noticeable temperature change, while the Arctic and Antarctic are warming considerably more. Also, the temperature difference between warm periods and ice ages were only around 5-6 degrees Celsius, and the IPCC expects a further increase by between 1.6-5.5 degrees Celsius by 2100 (Handwerk). Experts predict up to 30% of species will be unable to migrate or acclimate to the changes and become extinct (James).
Although many people are aware that humans are changing the global climate, they may not understand all of the possible consequences, particularly those felt in the oceans. As carbon dioxide increases in the atmosphere, more will be absorbed into the oceans, acidifying our waters in the process. In the past 40 years, the oceans’ surface waters have warmed by .5 degrees Celsius, which affects sea life and increases the volume of the water, which expands as it warms (Gilardin). Coupled with the melting of land-based ice, particularly in Greenland and Antarctica, sea levels have risen 10-25 cm in the last 100 years, and are predicted to rise 50-90cm more by the end of the century (Evans). Ocean storms, such as hurricanes, are fueled by warmer water and humidity and may intensify. In addition, the warming, as well as the freshening of the ocean, caused by the melting of glaciers, may slow or even stop the ocean conveyor, which is responsible for circulating ocean currents and plays a large role in the earth’s climate by transporting heat in the process.


:yes:five

ok so I dont know if this has been mentioned or not, bc I havent read all the previous posts, but about 40 years ago in I believe Time Magazine (not exactly sure if it was that one or not) had an article about how the Earth is getting too cold and how we need to "UP" the temperature by all means. I just find it ironic that now they are saying the complete opposite. Thats just something to think about, because 40some years ago scientists thought thats what needed to be done, and now its flip flopped

ok so I dont know if this has been mentioned or not, bc I havent read all the previous posts, but about 40 years ago in I believe Time Magazine (not exactly sure if it was that one or not) had an article about how the Earth is getting too cold and how we need to "UP" the temperature by all means. I just find it ironic that now they are saying the complete opposite. Thats just something to think about, because 40some years ago scientists thought thats what needed to be done, and now its flip flopped

I agree that it may sounds flip-floppy but many scientific theories have changed over the past 40 years due to research, observance and scientific advancements.

What if I was riding my bike?


I would not ride my bike 15 miles out of the way for cider or anything else...so it's a mute point for me! :giggle

What if I was riding my bike?

Then good on ya. But most won't do that. I would just NOT get the treat, personally. I'll get it next time I head that way.

Okay, I suck at thinking up examples. But I don't think picking apart who would or wouldn't go out of their way for cider really changes the issue. I freely admit there is definitely more that I could do to be environmentally friendly. But I think there is a big difference between not being a fanatic about it and refusing to ever consider the environmental impact of a choice you make. I'm not saying anyone in this thread never considers the enivornment. But I think a lot of people refuse to be bothered about it at all, which I think is a shame. To be terribly cliche, if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

Okay, I suck at thinking up examples. But I don't think picking apart who would or wouldn't go out of their way for cider really changes the issue. I freely admit there is definitely more that I could do to be environmentally friendly. But I think there is a big difference between not being a fanatic about it and refusing to ever consider the environmental impact of a choice you make. I'm not saying anyone in this thread never considers the enivornment. But I think a lot of people refuse to be bothered about it at all, which I think is a shame. To be terribly cliche, if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

This post is said perfectly. Like I mentioned before, I am far from fanatical... I have my mini van and I forget to sometimes turn my tv off when I leave a room. I'm not perfect and I'm not a fanatic. BUT I do believe there is a problem and I"ve made the choice to at least attempt to make changes where and when I can. I mentioned some of these things before but very small examples of things you could do would be to grow your own little garden if you can, use reusable grocery bags, wash your clothes in cold water, shorten your showers by just a little, take a warm shower instead of scalding hot, make sure your cars are tuned up and not polluting more than they have to be, carpool WHEN YOU CAN, if you're going up to the corner store, consider walking instead of driving, eat less meat, buy more organic or grow your own.... None of these things are HUGE things and I know not everyone can do all of them, but these are just examples of small things that most people can do without even being too inconvenienced... and if more and more people start pitching in their small parts, it will be a HUGE help. As I mentioned once before, even if you don't believe in global warming, aren't all of these things still good for our planet and better for our natural resources?

Okay, I suck at thinking up examples. But I don't think picking apart who would or wouldn't go out of their way for cider really changes the issue. I freely admit there is definitely more that I could do to be environmentally friendly. But I think there is a big difference between not being a fanatic about it and refusing to ever consider the environmental impact of a choice you make. I'm not saying anyone in this thread never considers the enivornment. But I think a lot of people refuse to be bothered about it at all, which I think is a shame. To be terribly cliche, if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

That's what's bothering me with this "debate". Instead of offering any reasonable evidence (from a reputable source) that global warming is NOT occurring, people start nitpicking. And really, you (general you) don't have to believe it, but at least look at the facts and be open to the possibility that it IS occurring; don't shut down and make assumptions because you don't want to deal with the implications if it is true. I'm trying to remain open minded but again, after doing my own research and until I see any reasonable evidence to the contrary, I'm going to believe that our planet is heating up due, largely, to our actions.

I don't think Alexandra is saying that everyone needs to go out and get rid of their F250s and SUVs in order to buy environmentally friendlier vehicles (or, even better, take public transporation!); that's not feasible. I understand the need for large vehicles in SOME situations, but I do honestly think it's ridiculous when people want to buy an SUV or truck for the looks, and not the space and towing capacities. That's just me.
But there are MANY things that we could easily do to make a difference- buying different kinds of light bulbs, turning everything off when we leave the house, hanging our clothes to dry on hot days (yeah, it takes a little more time, but I love the smell of laundry that has been hung to dry), planting a tree or buying recycled paper. I, for one, will not be trading in my car for a hybrid vehicle (although I drive a Corolla, not a Hummer) and don't plan to take the bus again anytime soon (did that the whole spring semester this year). But I am aware of the issue and have made some small changes in my life that do make an impact. I'm not going to turn my head and look the other way-I have a 19 month old and this is her future (and your children's) that we're destroying, you know?

Well I do drive a Hummer and I am not ashamed!! :teehee We have those little curly Q bulbs, we turn stuff off etc. I won't by recycled paper because it cost more, I won't use paper bags because I reuse the plastic ones for trash can liners and dog poop, I REFUSE to dry my clothes outside because they get "crunchy" and birds poop on them. But I do wash with HE front loaders because they save ME money not because they are enviromentally friendly. I won't buy a Hybrid until they make a big enough engine in a Hybrid in a big enough car that will work for me and my family and NOT cost thousand and thousands more than a regular engine.

In CA I recycled here I don't because I am not going to pay to recycle when I see them dump it all in the same garbage truck as the regular cans anyway. I am not going to make every single decision in my life worried about what I am doing to the enviroment, I don't have that much time on my hands generally.

Global warming MAY be occuring but it has been happening for MANY years it's not a new thing. I am not a "greenie" and I never will be.

I HAVE looked at the facts.

I have also looked at the FACT that this planet is BILLIONS of years old, and that our "meteorologists" have MAYBE 50-75 years of data.

And they're basing their "findings" on a nanosecond of time in the grand scheme of things?

I HAVE looked at the facts.

I have also looked at the FACT that this planet is BILLIONS of years old, and that our "meteorologists" have MAYBE 50-75 years of data.

And they're basing their "findings" on a nanosecond of time in the grand scheme of things?


Did you read the long post I wrote? I even bolded the numbers that I thought were important, since I knew most people would skim right past it. Scientists have been able to look back 600,000 years by testing the CO2 concentration and temperature in bubbles found in ice cores. So it's slighty more than 50 years worth of data.

Well I do drive a Hummer and I am not ashamed!! :teehee We have those little curly Q bulbs, we turn stuff off etc. I won't by recycled paper because it cost more, I won't use paper bags because I reuse the plastic ones for trash can liners and dog poop, I REFUSE to dry my clothes outside because they get "crunchy" and birds poop on them. But I do wash with HE front loaders because they save ME money not because they are enviromentally friendly. I won't buy a Hybrid until they make a big enough engine in a Hybrid in a big enough car that will work for me and my family and NOT cost thousand and thousands more than a regular engine.

In CA I recycled here I don't because I am not going to pay to recycle when I see them dump it all in the same garbage truck as the regular cans anyway. I am not going to make every single decision in my life worried about what I am doing to the enviroment, I don't have that much time on my hands generally.

Global warming MAY be occuring but it has been happening for MANY years it's not a new thing. I am not a "greenie" and I never will be.

i like ya :)

False Alert of Global Warming (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8177)

Another False Alarm on Global Warming (http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=17190) by David E. Wojick, Ph.D., climate change, technology, and policy change.

Global warming claims based on false data. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/01/14/wglob14.xml) Exaggerated by 40%. Wow. That's not even a little percentage.

Al Gore's claimed refuted by Science. (http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/450392,CST-EDT-REF30b.article)


Ok I'm bored with that science crap now.

And please, no more snippets from Al Gore. Because I won't believe for a second that a politician has no "agenda".

Global warming has been around since the 1800's. The Earth's climate is going to change over the decades, that is a given.

The Co2 concentration has gone from 280ppm pre industrial revolution to 370ppm current time (approx so not sure it's accurate). If you think about it logically, as a PLANET we have grown bigger the climate is going to change.

i like ya :)

:D aww...thanks! LOL

:D aww...thanks! LOL

i'm just staying out of all of it now but you said exactly what i've been thinking

[
And please, no more snippets from Al Gore. Because I won't believe for a second that a politician has no "agenda".

You think the Heartland Institute has no agenda? Check this link out:http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute


And I refuse to take a website advertising "The Clinton Crack-Up" seriously.

The last two newspapers I am more inclined to look at, but not having read those particular papers before I will retain my skepticism.

K

The basic tenets of global warming ("An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and other changes in the climate system... There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities") have been endorsed by at least 30 scientific societies and academies of science, including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries. The American Association of Petroleum Geologists is the only scientific society that rejects these conclusions.


Some non-Al Gore related facts about where scientists stand on global warming.