"Tyra shares the incredible stories of young kids who were born one gender, but in their hearts and minds identify with the other. She examines the toll it takes on their parents and their self-esteem as they try to fit into a world of cruel people that don't understand them. Tyra speaks with one mother and her 13-year-old daughter, who is actually living as a boy, as they discuss the monumental "Transition Party" which marked his change. The young boy also confronts his father, who flies in from Italy, about his unwillingness to accept his transition from girl to boy. Then, Tyra speaks with a 16-year-old girl who longs for the day she can fully transform into a male, and sits down with her mother as she struggles with her daughter's life-changing decision. Plus, a young man who made the transition from female to male shares the emotional story of how a letter he wrote to his father changed their relationship forever. Tyra also speaks with two transgender teens about the difficulties they face in their daily life."

I was just wondering what y'all thought of this. The first case of the 13 year old, her mother decided at a young age that she was really a boy, not a girl, and decided to put her child on medications to keep her from having a period/growing breasts and what not. Do you think it's right for a parent to establish this decision at such a young age?

i think it is 100% wrong for a parent to decide they want a different gender child simply because they can. i also don't think that a child can know if they are in the wrong body

i think it is 100% wrong for a parent to decide they want a different gender child simply because they can. i also don't think that a child can know if they are in the wrong body

:agree.

They even had a 'transition' party for him on his 12th birthday, which 'certified' that 'Julia' was becomming 'Chris'. I mean, when I was 9 - 10 I was a huge tom boy, I rolled around in the dirt and hung out with the little boy next door and had a plastic garbage bag of dinosaurs I played with.. Thank God my mom didn't decide I should be a boy.

exactly i love my vagina and i'd be very unhappy if it was decided that i should have a penis

i agree with you ladies; it should be the child's decision as he or she matures.

Transgender children exist it has been studied there is even an explanation for it now. In the womb all children are female regardless of penis or vagina. A chemical wash happens in the womb making the child male.

Dr's say that on occasion male sexed fetuses do not get the chemical wash. Thus making them female with a penis, the exact opposite can happen with a female sexed fetus getting the chemical wash making them male with female sex organs.

No parent would ever want to make their child a transgendered child. The road is a hard one for those children. It takes MANY hours of therapy & DR appointments before the medical field will attach the diagnosis of transgendered on a child.

For people that don't understand the pain a transgendered person lives in I suggest watching The Gwen Araujo Story, or Boys Don't Cry.

Gwen Araujo (http://www.jaimesite.homestead.com/gwenaraujo.html)

http://www.justicejunction.com/judicial_injustice_brandon_teena.htm

FAQ transgender (http://www.critpath.org/pflag-talk/tgKIDfaq.html)

info on trangender (http://www.lauras-playground.com/transsexual_control.htm)



The parents are not making this choice rather they are doing there best to help their children feel comfortable in their own skin. Try to imagine feeling like you are the wrong sex, hating your body because it has the wrong parts.

I will love and accept my children no matter what be they transgendered, gay, straight, or even republican.

Transgender children exist it has been studied there is even an explanation for it now. In the womb all children are female regardless of penis or vagina. A chemical wash happens in the womb making the child male.

Dr's say that on occasion male sexed fetuses do not get the chemical wash. Thus making them female with a penis, the exact opposite can happen with a female sexed fetus getting the chemical wash making them male with female sex organs.

No parent would ever want to make their child a transgendered child. The road is a hard one for those children. It takes MANY hours of therapy & DR appointments before the medical field will attach the diagnosis of transgendered on a child.

For people that don't understand the pain a transgendered person lives in I suggest watching The Gwen Araujo Story, or Boys Don't Cry.

Gwen Araujo (http://www.jaimesite.homestead.com/gwenaraujo.html)

http://www.justicejunction.com/judicial_injustice_brandon_teena.htm

FAQ transgender (http://www.critpath.org/pflag-talk/tgKIDfaq.html)

info on trangender (http://www.lauras-playground.com/transsexual_control.htm)



The parents are not making this choice rather they are doing there best to help their children feel comfortable in their own skin. Try to imagine feeling like you are the wrong sex, hating your body because it has the wrong parts.

I will love and accept my children no matter what be they transgendered, gay, straight, or even republican.


that's all great but there have been instances of young children being forced to take these hormones and all that by their parents. that's what's wrong

I watched a special about Canadian twin boys on TV the other night. Back in the late 60s ealry 70s a dr. in Maryland told their parents that gender doesn't become a factor until children are 2 yrs. old, and to raise their son (who'd had his penis accidentally removed during circumcision) as a girl. The experiment FAILED horribly.

I totally disagree with that theory anyway, since Camryn was girly from birth. At age 2 months she had a favorite pink frilly dress, she'd smile when we put it on her and would FREAK out when we took it off. I think that gender issues do exist in some people, and that it's most likely some sort of genetic mutation or something, but to say that children don't identify with one gender or another before age 2 is completely wrong!

I don't know anything about that, I do know that no DR would go along with that sort of thing. That is not transgendered either, that would be child abuse. Transgendered is when the child/teen & their parents SEEK out medical help and after many clinical hours get a diagnosis. OR when an adult goes to the DR on their OWN and gets the diagnosis, or to a GLBT counseling service, etc.

True transgender is not something someone forces on you. What you are describing is child abuse. Or in some cases in the past where circumcisions went bad and they tried to raise the child as a girl. I think the most known story is "As Nature Made Him" where the circ went wrong and his penis was burned off. At the time they did not know HOW to fix it so they tried to make him a girl. That is not transgender though.

I think there is a very big difference between being a tomboy and being a transgender child. Being a tomboy is a silly label for a girl who likes to play with trucks or climb trees. Transgender is a medical condition where a person actually hates themselves because they feel so strongly that they are in the wrong body. If people can be born with mental disabilities and physical disabilities, why not transgender?

I would be as understanding as I could with my child. Just like I would be if they were ADD or had learning disabilities or couldn't walk. I would never just immediately go for hormone therapy without some serious research and therapy, but I doubt any of the parents who do decide on hormone therapy do it on a whim. It is VERY expensive and requires a lot of counseling and medical intervention. It's not like you can just walk into a doctors office and say "I had a daughter but I want a son. Can you change her to a boy?" and a doctor would do it.

I think there is a very big difference between being a tomboy and being a transgender child. Being a tomboy is a silly label for a girl who likes to play with trucks or climb trees. Transgender is a medical condition where a person actually hates themselves because they feel so strongly that they are in the wrong body. If people can be born with mental disabilities and physical disabilities, why not transgender?

I would be as understanding as I could with my child. Just like I would be if they were ADD or had learning disabilities or couldn't walk. I would never just immediately go for hormone therapy without some serious research and therapy, but I doubt any of the parents who do decide on hormone therapy do it on a whim. It is VERY expensive and requires a lot of counseling and medical intervention. It's not like you can just walk into a doctors office and say "I had a daughter but I want a son. Can you change her to a boy?" and a doctor would do it.

Exactly that is what I was trying to say.

I don't know anything about that, I do know that no DR would go along with that sort of thing. That is not transgendered either, that would be child abuse. Transgendered is when the child/teen & their parents SEEK out medical help and after many clinical hours get a diagnosis. OR when an adult goes to the DR on their OWN and gets the diagnosis, or to a GLBT counseling service, etc.

True transgender is not something someone forces on you. What you are describing is child abuse. Or in some cases in the past where circumcisions went bad and they tried to raise the child as a girl. I think the most known story is "As Nature Made Him" where the circ went wrong and his penis was burned off. At the time they did not know HOW to fix it so they tried to make him a girl. That is not transgender though.

oh i absolutely think a child can be transgendered but i saw a few years ago on dateline about this family who was obtaining drugs illegally from mexico or canada or something like that and were dosing their child with all these estrogen shots and telling him that they were insulin and he was diabetic

oh i absolutely think a child can be transgendered but i saw a few years ago on dateline about this family who was obtaining drugs illegally from mexico or canada or something like that and were dosing their child with all these estrogen shots and telling him that they were insulin and he was diabetic

That is just SAD. How horrible and I hope those parents are in jail. I don't think that story has anything to do with transgender kids though, or treatment for transgender kids in this country. I think if anyone is going to do that to their kids, they are going to do it no matter what and they will find a way (like those people did getting the drugs from another country). Transgender obviously has nothing to do with it. Talk about screwing up a kids gender identity for life though.

i think it is 100% wrong for a parent to decide they want a different gender child simply because they can. i also don't think that a child can know if they are in the wrong body

:yes

oh i know wicked i was using it as an example that it does happen that parents who want a boy or a girl and didn't get which gender they want would do that and then say oh the child was transgender kwim?

ETA: when i said i dont' think a child can know if they are in the wrong body i meant that i don't think a child that is 4 can know they were supposed to be a boy kwim?

I don't know anything about that, I do know that no DR would go along with that sort of thing. That is not transgendered either, that would be child abuse. Transgendered is when the child/teen & their parents SEEK out medical help and after many clinical hours get a diagnosis. OR when an adult goes to the DR on their OWN and gets the diagnosis, or to a GLBT counseling service, etc.

True transgender is not something someone forces on you. What you are describing is child abuse. Or in some cases in the past where circumcisions went bad and they tried to raise the child as a girl. I think the most known story is "As Nature Made Him" where the circ went wrong and his penis was burned off. At the time they did not know HOW to fix it so they tried to make him a girl. That is not transgender though.


There actually have been instances of the parents having the childs gender changed as a baby even when there is no medical reason. Money talks.


I do NOT agree with parents making that choice but I do think that there are some people who grow up feeling they are supposed to be the opposite sex. I believe it because the studies prove it.

oh i know wicked i was using it as an example that it does happen that parents who want a boy or a girl and didn't get which gender they want would do that and then say oh the child was transgender kwim?

Well, they can say it all they want, but in THIS country, it takes a lot of therapy and medical intervention to actually get a doctor to start any kind of hormone therapy for ANY reason, much less for transgender kids. It would come out in therapy pretty quickly that the kids wasn't actually transgender. They require adults to live as the other sex and go through therapy for a YEAR before they can have a sex change, and they are ADULTS. With kids, they have to be diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) by a doctor. A parent can't just claim that the kids is transgender and *poof* they are. They are tested to see if they fit certain criteria.

oh i know wicked i was using it as an example that it does happen that parents who want a boy or a girl and didn't get which gender they want would do that and then say oh the child was transgender kwim?

ETA: when i said i dont' think a child can know if they are in the wrong body i meant that i don't think a child that is 4 can know they were supposed to be a boy kwim?

BUT they would be LYING. They obtained drugs illegally and illegally gave them to their child. That is certainly NOT transgender and just talking to the child a DR would be able to see the abuse going on.

I disagree on the age factor though. A child knows their sexual identity at a very young age. My son was raised gender neutral meaning if he liked a toy I didn't care if it was a "boy" toy or a "girl" toy. Yet when he was three he started to fully identify with being male and started saying "OH I can't have that I'm a guy, this is girl's".

On occasion though he does want the girl toy in his happy meal, he liked the Madame Alexander dolls, and right now he likes the Hello Kitty stuff. He is not transgendered though he just is open to everything which is how I have been raising him. (He sees the commercials and asks for them)

Anyway the point being children know at a very young age which sexual identity they identify with based off my own experiences with my own child.

Well, they can say it all they want, but in THIS country, it takes a lot of therapy and medical intervention to actually get a doctor to start any kind of hormone therapy for ANY reason, much less for transgender kids. It would come out in therapy pretty quickly that the kids wasn't actually transgender. They require adults to live as the other sex and go through therapy for a YEAR before they can have a sex change, and they are ADULTS. With kids, they have to be diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) by a doctor. A parent can't just claim that the kids is transgender and *poof* they are. They are tested to see if they fit certain criteria.

yes i know that the legal and medical process to do it CORRECTLY is lengthy and it is good at making sure you are a good candidate but this is about transgendered children.

There actually have been instances of the parents having the childs gender changed as a baby even when there is no medical reason. Money talks.


That is not transgendered though that is child abuse. I don't see that happening in America (although anything can happen, people do illegal things all the time) do you have examples?

yes i know that the legal and medical process to do it CORRECTLY is lengthy and it is good at making sure you are a good candidate but this is about transgendered children.

BUT you are not talking about transgendered children you are talking about parents illegally CHANGING their childs sex it is not the same issue.

i was commenting on the example that the OP gave about the child the parents changed the gender of after he lost his penis in a freak accident

I know, and like I said, children have to be diagnosed with GID just like adults do before they can start the very lengthy process that leads up to hormone therapy or sexual reassignment surgery.

All I'm saying is that treating a transgender child is NOT the same thing as a parent using money or getting drugs illegal from another country to change the gender of their kids. One is treating a medical problem, and one is child abuse. One takes years and a lot of therapy and medical intervention by real doctors to do, one is at the whim of a parent and would never be okay with a doctor. They are NOT the same issue. I guess I don't understand why one is being used as an argument against the other (if it is).

I do agree that parents should not be able to make the decision for their kids when they see signs of GID at a young age, but I think that with the current procedure for treating GID kids, any kind of hormone therapy doesn't even start until they are entering puberty. So, treating 4 year old transgender kids with hormone therapy isn't even an issue. The people who give their four year olds hormones to change their gender are CHILD ABUSERS, and that really doesn't have anything to do with the real medical treatment of real transgender kids.

i was commenting on the example that the OP gave about the child the parents changed the gender of after he lost his penis in a freak accident

I mentioned this case as well it was after his penis was burned off during circumcision. He wrote a book about it called "As nature made him" his parents were following medical advice BECAUSE at the time (it was the 70's I believe) they did not have the medical knowledge to rebuild his penis. The DRs advised the parents that this would be the best route. The DRs where very very wrong. However that is not transgender either.

Sorry I am not attacking you but I don't think you understand what true transgender is. Transgender is not medical accidents like the circumcision accident, or parents for some insane reason illegally medicating their child.

Many transgendered people have stated that from their earliest memories they felt there was SOMETHING wrong with them. Of course at the time they did not know what it was but they knew they were some how wrong in some way.

I know, and like I said, children have to be diagnosed with GID just like adults do before they can start the very lengthy process that leads up to hormone therapy or sexual reassignment surgery.

All I'm saying is that treating a transgender child is NOT the same thing as a parent using money or getting drugs illegal from another country to change the gender of their kids. One is treating a medical problem, and one is child abuse. One takes years and a lot of therapy and medical intervention by real doctors to do, one is at the whim of a parent and would never be okay with a doctor. They are NOT the same issue. I guess I don't understand why one is being used as an argument against the other (if it is).

I do agree that parents should not be able to make the decision for their kids when they see signs of GID at a young age, but I think that with the current procedure for treating GID kids, any kind of hormone therapy doesn't even start until they are entering puberty. So, treating 4 year old transgender kids with hormone therapy isn't even an issue. The people who give their four year olds hormones to change their gender are CHILD ABUSERS, and that really doesn't have anything to do with the real medical treatment of real transgender kids.

Very well said!

I mentioned this case as well it was after his penis was burned off during circumcision. He wrote a book about it called "As nature made him" his parents were following medical advice BECAUSE at the time (it was the 70's I believe) they did not have the medical knowledge to rebuild his penis. The DRs advised the parents that this would be the best route. The DRs where very very wrong. However that is not transgender either.

Sorry I am not attacking you but I don't think you understand what true transgender is. Transgender is not medical accidents like the circumcision accident, or parents for some insane reason illegally medicating their child.

Many transgendered people have stated that from their earliest memories they felt there was SOMETHING wrong with them. Of course at the time they did not know what it was but they knew they were some how wrong in some way.

i know what transgender is and i've said that i fully believe that people and children can be transgender but she asked the question about transgender children and gave that example. i was commenting on that and i don't think that a 4 year old can really know that they should've been a girl or a boy.

I'm basically reiterating what Jill said, but the point I was trying to make was that I do not deny that this young boy is in fact transgendered, I just feel that his parents getting him tested and beginning the proper medical procedures for a transgendered child at ages as young as 4 and 5 is a little premature.

All of the shows I've seen done on this subject makes me more and more realize how real this is. These parents struggle horribly and go through immense pain when allowing their children to become (or live as) the opposite sex. The parents don't choose who their child is.......the children don't choose it either.....it simply is what it is!! Born in the wrong body. These parents are not sickos out there choosing to just go ahead and make their child another sex....there is therapy and diagnosis and tremendous PAIN involved! I'm sure that the medical community could spot a case where a parent was pushing this on their children.

The only time I've seen shows where the actually reassign the sexual organs is in the cases of hermaphrodites or severe injury during a circ. One show I watched said that doctors are no longer removing certain organs from hermaphrodites (a TOTALLY sperate issue!!).......until they are old enough to see what sex the child identifies with. They used to leave it up to the parents to choose a sex in the EXTREME and RARE cases........but even that is changing as time goes on. According to the show I watched on the subject anyway:wink

I'm getting into this late, but I wanted to say that I agree with Jamie.

One of the youngest known cases for a transgender child to make transition from one gender to another, is six years old. This child has expressed that "she" is not happy with the gender she was born with. Of course, before the transition started, the parents consulted doctors and therapists. However, hormone therapy isn't being used yet and won't be until "she" hits puberty.

There is also a teenager that has begun the transition from one gender to another and once "he" turns 18, "he" will finalize his transition by having surgery to change "his" genitalia.

That is not transgendered though that is child abuse. I don't see that happening in America (although anything can happen, people do illegal things all the time) do you have examples?

I don't have any specific cases at this moment but I have heard of it happening in the US. I'll see if I can find what I am talking about.

I was just wondering what y'all thought of this. The first case of the 13 year old, her mother decided at a young age that she was really a boy, not a girl, and decided to put her child on medications to keep her from having a period/growing breasts and what not. Do you think it's right for a parent to establish this decision at such a young age?


I only want to comment on the question asked. I feel that maybe some children do know at a young age that they are "different". But that it is too hard to tell if it is a parents wishes or the child's needs at that young of an age. I do not feel there should be any hormone changes done until the child is at least 13. Being a child is just confusing anyway. We all go through hard and difficult times. I would not want to let my kids take a drug and then later find out I really screwed them up. I feel for people in these shoes because I am sure that there really and truly is not a right answer. Well there is one. We could just change society but, that is a long time from happening still about many issues.

I am done rambling now.

Transgender children exist it has been studied there is even an explanation for it now. In the womb all children are female regardless of penis or vagina. A chemical wash happens in the womb making the child male.

Dr's say that on occasion male sexed fetuses do not get the chemical wash. Thus making them female with a penis, the exact opposite can happen with a female sexed fetus getting the chemical wash making them male with female sex organs.

No parent would ever want to make their child a transgendered child. The road is a hard one for those children. It takes MANY hours of therapy & DR appointments before the medical field will attach the diagnosis of transgendered on a child.

For people that don't understand the pain a transgendered person lives in I suggest watching The Gwen Araujo Story, or Boys Don't Cry.

Gwen Araujo (http://www.jaimesite.homestead.com/gwenaraujo.html)

http://www.justicejunction.com/judicial_injustice_brandon_teena.htm

FAQ transgender (http://www.critpath.org/pflag-talk/tgKIDfaq.html)

info on trangender (http://www.lauras-playground.com/transsexual_control.htm)



The parents are not making this choice rather they are doing there best to help their children feel comfortable in their own skin. Try to imagine feeling like you are the wrong sex, hating your body because it has the wrong parts.

I will love and accept my children no matter what be they transgendered, gay, straight, or even republican.


Honestly, I don't think that the Gwen Araujo story is a great example to use here, because Gwen Arjuno tricked males into having sex with him under the pretext that he was a female. Whether or not he felt like a female, I think that what he did was completely immoral, and even though his actions don't excuse those of his killers, he obviously had many other problems besides feeling like he was in the wrong body. He also engaged in using drugs with the people he was at the parties with. So forgive me if I don't exactly hold him in the highest regard. While I understand that what happened to him was incredibly tragic, it could have been avoided had he not made the lifestyle choices he did. And by that I don't mean that had he not been gay he wouldn't have been killed, but had he not tried to hide that fact that he was biologically a male, and had not had sex acts with the men he did he might still be alive today.

She was not gay if she had like females that would of made her gay. She was a transgendered person her actions may of been "bad" but it does not excuse murder and it does not make her any less transgendered.

She was a person living in pain I feel sorry for her, to have to live a lie must be incredibly hard. Murder is murder no amount of excuses or reasons will ever make me see the murders of Gwen Araujo or Brandon Teena in any other light. That they felt tricked matters not at all to me. The men that murdered GA CHOOSE to trap her, and butcher her, the men that killed Brandon Teena CHOOSE to rape her violently then drive out to that house and butcher innocent witnesses along with BT.

People react with violence when sexual identity is challenged, it is sad and needs to be stopped. I understand you don't like or respect GA but it does not make her life any less then what it was the life of a transgendered person.

She was not gay if she had like females that would of made her gay. She was a transgendered person her actions may of been "bad" but it does not excuse murder and it does not make her any less transgendered.

She was a person living in pain I feel sorry for her, to have to live a lie must be incredibly hard. Murder is murder no amount of excuses or reasons will ever make me see the murders of Gwen Araujo or Brandon Teena in any other light. That they felt tricked matters not at all to me. The men that murdered GA CHOOSE to trap her, and butcher her, the men that killed Brandon Teena CHOOSE to rape her violently then drive out to that house and butcher innocent witnesses along with BT.

People react with violence when sexual identity is challenged, it is sad and needs to be stopped. I understand you don't like or respect GA but it does not make her life any less then what it was the life of a transgendered person.

I don't think his life was any less, nor that his death was not tragic, as I said in my post. I simply feel that there is no reason for him to exist in martyrdom as he could have prevented his death. He CHOOSE to lie about being a male, which in my opinion means that he coerced the people he had sex with in a very immoral way, and he CHOOSE to go to parties where drugs were involved.

As for him not being gay, in my opinion, if a person is physically a male, and grows a penis and his testicles drop and he has secondary sexual characteristics, and he is attracted to men, he is gay. That is my definition of gay. I will not call Araujo a girl, because I don't believe he was.

All this does not mean that I condone hate crimes against gay, transgendered, lesbian, et cetera, et cetera persons, simply that I don't feel that Gwen Araujo should be considered any sort of poster child against gay, transgendered, etc hate crimes because a lot of those who have had their lives ended in tragic ways or who have been brutally beaten, etc did nothing to provoke their killers, assailants, etc besides being gay, transgendered etc.

I only want to comment on the question asked. I feel that maybe some children do know at a young age that they are "different". But that it is too hard to tell if it is a parents wishes or the child's needs at that young of an age. I do not feel there should be any hormone changes done until the child is at least 13. Being a child is just confusing anyway. We all go through hard and difficult times. I would not want to let my kids take a drug and then later find out I really screwed them up. I feel for people in these shoes because I am sure that there really and truly is not a right answer. Well there is one. We could just change society but, that is a long time from happening still about many issues.

I am done rambling now.

I agree, you did a fine job of stating what I was trying to say! :)