Ok I put this in debate because I know it could get heated. But this is something that just bothers me and makes me a little embarrassed of the female race.

I have 2 co-workers, one is 39, the other is 41. Both of these women are recent divorces, one has 4 kids the youngest is like 16 now) and the other has 2. Well, in getting to know them, I started to see how naive and so dependent they used to be of their husbands. One co-worker was telling me how when she separated from her husband 2 years ago, she had to basically learn how to live all over again. She had always been taken care of by her mom and when she turned 19 she got married and continued to be taken care of by her husband. She worked and everything, BUT didn't know how to do SQUAT on her own. She didn't know how to pay bills, she just handed over her check, she didn't know anything about money or whatever. So when she divorced, she had to go to mom for help because she didn't know how to live on her own. When she bought her own car, she asked her mom for PERMISSION to buy a new car. And her mom had to go with her and co-sign to make sure she knew what was going on. After 2 years she finally got the hang of it, but I just couldn't believe it! My second co-worker was similar, when she separated she moved in back with her parents with her two kids, and still lives there. Her dad had to help her buy a car because she didn't know how to, and just now she is trying to get an apt for just her and her kids. WOW, that just BLOWS MY MIND. These women are 40 YEARS OLD!

It just makes me sad as a woman to think there are so many women out there that are so dependent on others to take care of them, they never bother to learn how to take care of themselves. I've had a job since I was 13, and I've been incredibly independent since I was young. I started buying my own clothes and all my stuff then, and by the age of 16 I was paying my own bills. I paid for my own phone line at my parents house, I bought my own car with my own money at age 16. By the time I went to college I was fully capable of being on my own with NO ONES help. I put myself through college, and was eager to be on my own. Its just so hard for me to fathom not being able to do something as simple as pay bills.

People do tell me sometimes that I am a very strong person and have a very independent personality, so its not surprising, but I know there are many women out there who are as well. What makes a woman just want to be naive and always just 'taken care of' as opposed to learn how to do things for themselves? I am not bashing anyone who might be this person, I'm just honestly curious.

I could go on and on, but anyway, what is your take on this?

Also, do you think military wives are more prone to this type of behaviour?

I think that it is insane in this day and age that women do not know how to fend for themselves and are coddle by their parents or in-laws to the point that they are totally helpless. I know, sometimes there are husbands involved that keep them barefoot and pregnant type of wives trapped in the house penniless and futureless but that is not an excuse either.

There are WAYS that women can help themselves, the internet has a wealth of information on it that you can access quickly.

I think that may be a bit old school. I think that female "prototype" is phasing out... or at least I hope so!

i think all women should be able to pay bills, do basic home maintenance and the like.

i think all women should be able to pay bills, do basic home maintenance and the like.

x2 :tu

It kind of shocks me that the women had no idea. It's very important to me(and my DH!) that we both know how to do everything around here. I've never depended on someone to do everything for me, I'm very independnet...but I think it goes with how I was raised.

I have many friends that are just like your co-workers.. and it makes me really sad for them. Alot of them still live at home and mommy and daddy do everything for them.. or if they are married there husbands do everything for them, and sometimes there parents still pay some of there bills. Sometimes I just want to tell them that they are not children anymore and need to grow up! JMO :)
I was working at a Salon and Babysitting when I was 14 buying my own clothes. I bought my own car when I was 16. I had to pay for my own insurance also. I move out when I was 17, paying rent, and paying all my own bills!!! Now I am married and dont ever ask anyone for help. I know how to do all those things so that if I was ever in your co-wokers position, I could stand on my own two feet!!

Ok I put this in debate because I know it could get heated. But this is something that just bothers me and makes me a little embarrassed of the female race.

I have 2 co-workers, one is 39, the other is 41. Both of these women are recent divorces, one has 4 kids the youngest is like 16 now) and the other has 2. Well, in getting to know them, I started to see how naive and so dependent they used to be of their husbands. One co-worker was telling me how when she separated from her husband 2 years ago, she had to basically learn how to live all over again. She had always been taken care of by her mom and when she turned 19 she got married and continued to be taken care of by her husband. She worked and everything, BUT didn't know how to do SQUAT on her own. She didn't know how to pay bills, she just handed over her check, she didn't know anything about money or whatever. So when she divorced, she had to go to mom for help because she didn't know how to live on her own. When she bought her own car, she asked her mom for PERMISSION to buy a new car. And her mom had to go with her and co-sign to make sure she knew what was going on. After 2 years she finally got the hang of it, but I just couldn't believe it! My second co-worker was similar, when she separated she moved in back with her parents with her two kids, and still lives there. Her dad had to help her buy a car because she didn't know how to, and just now she is trying to get an apt for just her and her kids. WOW, that just BLOWS MY MIND. These women are 40 YEARS OLD!

It just makes me sad as a woman to think there are so many women out there that are so dependent on others to take care of them, they never bother to learn how to take care of themselves. I've had a job since I was 13, and I've been incredibly independent since I was young. I started buying my own clothes and all my stuff then, and by the age of 16 I was paying my own bills. I paid for my own phone line at my parents house, I bought my own car with my own money at age 16. By the time I went to college I was fully capable of being on my own with NO ONES help. I put myself through college, and was eager to be on my own. Its just so hard for me to fathom not being able to do something as simple as pay bills.

People do tell me sometimes that I am a very strong person and have a very independent personality, so its not surprising, but I know there are many women out there who are as well. What makes a woman just want to be naive and always just 'taken care of' as opposed to learn how to do things for themselves? I am not bashing anyone who might be this person, I'm just honestly curious.

I could go on and on, but anyway, what is your take on this?

I'm pretty independent- I don't do things perfectly but I can take care of myself-- definitely by DB really likes that about me, he didn't have the time of day for a helpless ninny-- he relies on me to help him out and step up to the plate-- part of that is because he knows when he gets deployed I'll have to be really helping him a lot.

x2 :tu

Make that 3!!

It doesn't surprise me. I have aunts who are like that if they got divorced they would be up the creek. I can handle living on my own, i can do things on my own. I don't think military women are more prone to this behavior since our hubbys are deployed you have to do things on your own. ( though depends on the person) there isn't any reason why someone can't stand on their own two feet. I think people just like to have a reason not to have to do stuff.

I think that in the military, there are more women like that, yes. Not so extreme to the point where they can't handle paying pills, but that they never went to school, never had a job, never experienced life on their own. It will definitely be a problem for them were they to ever divorce.

I believe in working hard for an education and career to be able to fully support myself. I don't ever want to end up in a situation like that. But I think I've always been independent because my parents both have full-time careers and have my whole life. I have three younger siblings and I have done a lot in raising them. I knew how to cook, pay bills, clean the house, do laundry, etc, all by the age of 14 or 15.

Before kids, I will have put myself through grad school and have a career, that is what comes first for me.

I honestly do not know what I would do if I felt that I could not make it on my own. That feeling alone probably keep many women in unhealthy/unhappy relationships. If only they knew that there is always a way! Must be a sad existence feeling completely & totally dependent on another person for EVERYTHING.

I honestly do not know what I would do if I felt that I could not make it on my own. That feeling alone probably keep many women in unhealthy/unhappy relationships. If only they knew that there is always a way! Must be a sad existence feeling completely & totally dependent on another person for EVERYTHING.

Completely off topic, but OMG your icon!! Best five seconds on the internet!! haha

I think that it is insane in this day and age that women do not know how to fend for themselves and are coddle by their parents or in-laws to the point that they are totally helpless. I know, sometimes there are husbands involved that keep them barefoot and pregnant type of wives trapped in the house penniless and futureless but that is not an excuse either.

There are WAYS that women can help themselves, the internet has a wealth of information on it that you can access quickly.

I totally agree!

I also think that we military wives have to be more independent because we don't have the security of our husbands being home 24/7 to take care of every little thing!

I actually think military wives are prone to the exact OPPOSITE behavior. It's sink or swim, if we don't know how to take care of things on our own, we will sink like a rock as soon as the DH deploys.

I think part of being an adult is knowing how to take care of yourself - I would be quite irritated listening to those women talk about their dependence on their mothers/husbands. :yes

I actually think military wives are prone to the exact OPPOSITE behavior. It's sink or swim, if we don't know how to take care of things on our own, we will sink like a rock as soon as the DH deploys.

That's true. I do think there are still many military wives who don't have jobs, or haven't had one in a while and never went to school. I think they are the ones who will be in a bad position if they ever got divorced because even if they can cook and clean and know how to pay bills, they're still going to have a harder time finding a job to support themselves financially.

Thats sad, but I dont know how to buy a car either.

I was a military wife, but im very munch independant of my husband. I work, have my own money, my own car...When I say my own, I say it because then I dont have to ask him for 10 dollars or whatever and whatnot...

It was instilled in me at a young age, I want my kids to be that way!

Ok I put this in debate because I know it could get heated. But this is something that just bothers me and makes me a little embarrassed of the female race.

I have 2 co-workers, one is 39, the other is 41. Both of these women are recent divorces, one has 4 kids the youngest is like 16 now) and the other has 2. Well, in getting to know them, I started to see how naive and so dependent they used to be of their husbands. One co-worker was telling me how when she separated from her husband 2 years ago, she had to basically learn how to live all over again. She had always been taken care of by her mom and when she turned 19 she got married and continued to be taken care of by her husband. She worked and everything, BUT didn't know how to do SQUAT on her own. She didn't know how to pay bills, she just handed over her check, she didn't know anything about money or whatever. So when she divorced, she had to go to mom for help because she didn't know how to live on her own. When she bought her own car, she asked her mom for PERMISSION to buy a new car. And her mom had to go with her and co-sign to make sure she knew what was going on. After 2 years she finally got the hang of it, but I just couldn't believe it! My second co-worker was similar, when she separated she moved in back with her parents with her two kids, and still lives there. Her dad had to help her buy a car because she didn't know how to, and just now she is trying to get an apt for just her and her kids. WOW, that just BLOWS MY MIND. These women are 40 YEARS OLD!

It just makes me sad as a woman to think there are so many women out there that are so dependent on others to take care of them, they never bother to learn how to take care of themselves. I've had a job since I was 13, and I've been incredibly independent since I was young. I started buying my own clothes and all my stuff then, and by the age of 16 I was paying my own bills. I paid for my own phone line at my parents house, I bought my own car with my own money at age 16. By the time I went to college I was fully capable of being on my own with NO ONES help. I put myself through college, and was eager to be on my own. Its just so hard for me to fathom not being able to do something as simple as pay bills.

People do tell me sometimes that I am a very strong person and have a very independent personality, so its not surprising, but I know there are many women out there who are as well. What makes a woman just want to be naive and always just 'taken care of' as opposed to learn how to do things for themselves? I am not bashing anyone who might be this person, I'm just honestly curious.

I could go on and on, but anyway, what is your take on this?

Also, do you think military wives are more prone to this type of behaviour?

Military wives should be opposite! why would u think that military wives are more prone to this?? Since my Dh joined the army, i have been doing EVERYTHING, from paying bills, to taking the car to the shop. and i think someone mentioned something about the wives only klnowing how to do house work and what not... i dunno but i have been working since i was 15, and bought all 3 of my vehicles by myself, if anything i know i could take care of myself and my son if anything were to ever happen. Its not like i havent done it before.

LOL I never said they were, I was asking if you guys thought they were.

I've known quite a few of that type of woman who simply could not stand on their own two feet. If their husbands were to leave or heaven forbid die, they would be lost. Not to mention, they were so emotionally dependent on their husbands that no matter WHAT he did, cheating, beating, alcoholic, they would NEVER leave him because they were too afraid of loneliness.

I'm very very grateful that my mother taught me and my sister that we are strong enough to do anything and taught us how to stand on our own. I can't imagine being that dependent on someone. :no

LOL I never said they were, I was asking if you guys thought they were.

lol okay HAHA it kinda looked the way, just how i read it! lol this was just IMO:feathers

A great book on this topic is The Feminine Mistake by Leslie Bennetts. It deals mostly with the consequences of being financially dependent on a man.

I saw a "woman" out here a few months ago and she was the most pathetic excuse for the word I've ever seen. She was married and pregnant, and had brought her mother with her to her vision appointment. Fine, maybe she needed someone to drive her home if they were putting drops in her eyes. But she had her mother fill out her intake forms for her, not knowing who she was supposed to put for her sponsor (HELLO! Your HUSBAND!) She whispered loud enough for the entire waiting room to hear that she needed her mother to come in the examining room with her because the doctor was a male. She behaved like a helpless spoiled child and I could not believe that she was about to become someone's mother.

These women grew up in a different day and age, where going from being supported by your parents to directly being supported and taken care of by your husband was a lot more common. Not saying that it's an excuse, but I am pretty sure the further we get into the twenty-first century the more and more we will see this trend die.

I personally am very independent. I do still live with my parents, but I bought my own car, have been working since 15, and have been working two jobs and going to school ever since my Senior year in high school. I think in this day and age women do need to be able to take care of themselves and their children, because there is no telling what is going to happen.

I can not speak on the part of the military wives, because I'm not one! :)

These women grew up in a different day and age, where going from being supported by your parents to directly being supported and taken care of by your husband was a lot more common.

Not necessarily. These women were in their 40s. They were raised in the "hippie" era where women were less likely to get married right out of high school.

Not necessarily. These women were in their 40s. They were raised in the "hippie" era where women were less likely to get married right out of high school.

I didn't say ALL women in this era, it was just a whole lot more common. I know both my aunts and my mom went straight from high school / college and living with their parents to getting married. :)

I'm pretty independent and I know how to handle (most) of whatever life throws at me. I'm very proud that I know how to survive without additional support and it leaves me feeling accomplished.

It doesn't annoy me though that there are women who are dependent on their spouses or other people in their life. I know men who don't know how to do some of the same things. For instance... my hubs has no idea about online banking and how to set up bill pay. Doesn't mean he can't do it, but assuming we're together 20+ years and I handle it the entire time then one day I'm not around... he wouldn't know where to begin. I can't imagine that they're really that naive, it's just something they haven't needed to concern themselves with. Every person and relationship is different... dependancy works for some people :dunno

I guess thats why I found it hard to be friends with people when he was in...I didnt have that one thing in common that his friends spouses did. They get to talk about day time tv and go shopping and out to lunch, but I went to work.

I also do the bulk of the house hold work too, meaning, take care of the house, the dogs, the yard and such. Why? Because my mother was a role model. She too worked, raised the kids, ran the money, took cars in, etc etc.

Why? Because my mother was a role model. She too worked, raised the kids, ran the money, took cars in, etc etc.


My mom worked 2 jobs, ran the money, somehow kept the car running, and there was always food on the table - doesn't mean she would ever want the same for me. My mom couldn't be happier for me living the life that I live.

I guess that part of your post rubbed me wrong. It almost feels like you're saying that a SAHM isn't a good role model. Did I misunderstand? :dunno

No it is a good role model, my response was to someone elses post...Just because someone doesnt stay home everyday doesnt mean that they cant handel the other activites as well, sorry I didnt mean to offend you.

I guess to clarify, there are women who can do both work and take care of everything else. And sometimes I feel those people are often overlooked.

It doesn't shock me. I know women who are like that. To each their own I guess. Being like that isn't for me though.

I was an only child, and I'm very independent. I have a hard time asking for help and would rather just do everything myself. I kinda had a hard time letting up on the control when John and I got married :giggle I was just used to doing everything on my own. I guess that kinda fits in with the military wife traits. :dunno

No, I can't understand how someone can just completley depend on someone else and be unable to stand on their own two feet. I think it's important for everyone to be able to do that.

No it is a good role model, my response was to someone elses post...Just because someone doesnt stay home everyday doesnt mean that they cant handel the other activites as well, sorry I didnt mean to offend you.

You didn't offend me at all, I was just trying to understand what you trying to say. I get what you meant, that your mom set the stage by showing you that "Superwoman" does exist...I just didn't understand if you were saying that only "Superwoman" could be a good role model ;)

I'm no superwoman - there's no way I'd ever even ATTEMPT to hold down the corporate job I held in Seattle and raise a family. I was working 50-65 hours a week...no exaggeration! The money was GREAT - but what's the point when you have no time to spend it? I know I couldn't do both (raise kids and have my career), and I know that if I were to attempt to do both, both would suffer. But that's just me - I have to focus my energy on one or the other. I don't think that should make me any less than an excellent role model for my kids though, kwim? Some people just can't do it all - but that shouldn't make them any less of a role model.

I hope that made sense.

No mom wasnt the only role model, but sometimes i feel those role models are passed over now.

Like for instance, everything i do in a given week...my realitives could careless...my sister is a stay at home mom with a son going into second grade and my grandmother thinks she has the hardest life ever.

I guess Im just trying to give the working moms who handle things a boost!

My mom doesnt work now, and sometimes i envy that. I would like to sometimes not do my schedule...

I would like my cake and eat it too.

When I see women like this, I wonder if they really truly have no clue, or if they feel comfortable in that role, and safe not having to do everything on their own, so they stick with it. Like going back to the parents... maybe they could do it on their own, but they think it would be easier to let their parents help, and let everyone believe they can't handle it. I'm sure some truly don't have enough skills, but others, I think they might be really good at acting.

As for military wives, I see it both ways. I think because of the lifestyle, we as a group are more likely to be able to stand on our own when the shit hits the fan. BUT, I also think too many wives let their own opportunities for education and career development be wasted, and would be screwed if they had to provide the financial support. It doesn't matter how well you can handle the bills if you can't earn the money to pay them.

As for military wives, I see it both ways. I think because of the lifestyle, we as a group are more likely to be able to stand on our own when the shit hits the fan. BUT, I also think too many wives let their own opportunities for education and career development be wasted, and would be screwed if they had to provide the financial support. It doesn't matter how well you can handle the bills if you can't earn the money to pay them.

OMG! I so agree with you. I have had many friends (some childless) who the minute the hubby is deployed they go home to live with parents cause they can't live or deal with being alone and taking care of everything. I've never understood it! I've tried to use every opportunity available to me. I married young but still put myself through community college and then 4 year University all while raising my daughter and dealing with a deployed spouse.

Wow, that's all I can say. I'm sure there are still women out there like this but it really does blow my mind that a person wouldn't be able to take care of themselves. Although sometimes I think that without me Jason couldn't take care of himself :lol

I'm pretty independent and I know how to handle (most) of whatever life throws at me. I'm very proud that I know how to survive without additional support and it leaves me feeling accomplished.

It doesn't annoy me though that there are women who are dependent on their spouses or other people in their life. I know men who don't know how to do some of the same things. For instance... my hubs has no idea about online banking and how to set up bill pay. Doesn't mean he can't do it, but assuming we're together 20+ years and I handle it the entire time then one day I'm not around... he wouldn't know where to begin. I can't imagine that they're really that naive, it's just something they haven't needed to concern themselves with. Every person and relationship is different... dependancy works for some people :dunno

:yes i'm kind of on both sides of the fence. with some things i am completely independent and others - such as buying a car - i am not, simply because it hasn't been necessary to learn, and honestly, when i need to learn i'll do it but it doesn't bug me that i can't right this moment. i have too much other stuff going on in my life to worry about the things i need help on.

personally i don't think there's anything wrong with being dependent upon somebody as long as you have the capability to learn how to take care of yourself when necessary. but to each his own.

:yes i'm kind of on both sides of the fence. with some things i am completely independent and others - such as buying a car - i am not, simply because it hasn't been necessary to learn, and honestly, when i need to learn i'll do it but it doesn't bug me that i can't right this moment. i have too much other stuff going on in my life to worry about the things i need help on.

personally i don't think there's anything wrong with being dependent upon somebody as long as you have the capability to learn how to take care of yourself when necessary. but to each his own.

:yes

I agree Renee.

I bought my first car by myself (cash & no co-signer) at 19. I also pay all the bills, manage the money, etc.

When I left him in March I seen just how VERY important it is that I make sure *I* can financially make it on my own in case something happens. I had to rely on the fact that he would be generous enough to give me more than the required child support. That just sucked. I had a job, but making $30K wasn't enough. So I am now making sure I get in this paralegal program that will take 2 yrs, but will provide me w/ enough of an income to support myself & 2 kids. I plan to eventually get my 4 yr, but I want something "immediate". I refuse to NEVER be put in a financial situation like that again...and even if him and I don't split up, at least I know I can do it on my own if it comes to that w/out having to worry if he'll pay me.

I honestly do not know what I would do if I felt that I could not make it on my own. That feeling alone probably keep many women in unhealthy/unhappy relationships. If only they knew that there is always a way! Must be a sad existence feeling completely & totally dependent on another person for EVERYTHING.

Totally agree! I refused to be one of those women back in March & I will refuse to be again even w/ 2 kids.

I'm slowly making my way through college so if something did happen, I could support my children on my own. Luckily for me, I have a huge support system within my family that I could always fall back on until I could get back onto my feet. I see no shame in accepting help from family. If that's what's in our best interest, then I could care less what people think about it.

If I were to get my nursing degree 5 years ago before having kids and not work until all of my kids are in school, a 10 or 12 year old nursing degree with no experience would be just as bad as not having a degree at all :lol So, that's why I'm in no rush. I'm working on it slowly, at my own pace, because my children need and deserve all of my time right now, and that's just how I personally feel about it. If staying at home with them and not being able to support myself and my children all by myself is a sacrifice I have to make to be at home with them full time from the time they're born until they're in school then so be it. The way my husband and I were brought up, there is NO shame at all in leaning on family during hard times. It may be different than what you believe or how you were raised, but I guess that's why it's a good thing that no one else has to live my life :D

I'm pretty independent, and being raised by a single mom, I can pretty much take care of myself ;)

This is my opinion but honestly it drives me nuts when women can't deal with shit on their own. Okay, I don't expect anyone to know how to change out their own tranny or anything but there are very basic things that I feel women should be able to do and that includes having the knowledge to support themselves (I didn't say they had to be supporting themselves, God knows I'm a SAHM and full time student, I'm bringing in nickels in financial aid compared to my DH's pay) but they should at least have an idea of what they can do if something did happen and they were on their own. Especially if they have children to support. I was a school bus driver when I got divorced but I also have a Class A CDL (used to be a truck driver) so I went out and got a second job driving truck at night. And I was going to community college full time. If something happened between myself and DH, I wouldn't have any problem finding another local trucking job and supporting myself and my DD.

I feel pretty strongly about this because my stepmother recently divorced my dad and she moved in immediately with another guy, she couldn't support herself if her life depended on it. This almost wouldn't bother me except she complains frequently about her lack of money, :blahblah all sorts of bullshite and she completely blames MY DAD for all her issues because he "held her back and made her stay at home with the kids". Rrrright. I have no patience for people that can't hold their own.