Do you feel that rodeo events are cruelty to animals? I know there are lots of different rodeo events, so I'll make a list and you can reply with whatever you think about them:

Bull Riding
Barrel Racing
Calf Roping
Cutting (horse and rider are assigned a calf to separate from a herd of calves, and are required to keep it separated for a certain amount of time)
Reigning (precision event)
Penning (team of horse/riders round calves into a pen)
Bronc Riding
Cowboy Mounted Shooting (rider shoots balloons with heat pistol)

I can't step foot into a Rodeo, I feel ALL rodeo events are cruel to animals. Rodeos are for pure entertainment at the cost of the animals well being. As long as the crowd is entertained, who cares if the animal is feeling pain right? If I could I would stop ALL rodeo events

Cutting (horse and rider are assigned a calf to separate from a herd of calves, and are required to keep it separated for a certain amount of time)
Reigning (precision event)
Penning (team of horse/riders round calves into a pen)
Barrel Racing


I dont see how any of the above are cruel? Barrel racing? Its just a rider and a horse running to beat the clock...No cows are injured in cutting..I dont think the above are cruel and I watch them.

I like going to the Rodeo...I think the Bronc/Bull riding is a bit harsh though and don't like to watch those.

i don't think they aren't cruel at all. no animals are shot or anything. it's a southern thing i think more than anything else

Here is a website you all should see.
http://www.sharkonline.org/?P=0000000349

Here is a little bit from the website from Rodeo Cruelty:
A real sport is one in which all participants are willing, and that surely is not the case with the rodeo. Rodeo associations claim very few animals are injured and killed in rodeos. That is a lie. In fact, rodeo associations do not disclose animal injuries and deaths. If these records were made public, the rodeo world would certainly lose both its fans and corporate sponsors. Furthermore, those who commit humane violations are granted anonymity.

Are animals hurt in rodeos?
http://www.sharkonline.org/?P=0000000624

Another rodeo victim...this horse was gravely injured at the National Finals Rodeo in December 2001. She bucked so completely out of control from being tortured by the flank strap and spurs that she was paralyzed and subsequently killed.
Yes! Many animals are injured and even killed in rodeos. Animal cruelty investigators are only able to attend a very small percentage of rodeos each year. Therefore, only a very small percentage of injuries or deaths are documented. More importantly, as the record below shows, rodeos frequently try to cover up animal injuries and even deaths.

Injuries ranging from minor to life threatening may not be immediately visible, especially from the distance of the bleachers. These injuries may include sprains, broken bones, muscle pulls, saddle blisters, spur and flank strap wounds. Essentially, if the animal doesn't drop dead in front of the bleachers, the audience usually doesn't know anything is wrong.

Also, in the last few years, rodeos are banning video and in some cases even still cameras from their events in an effort to thwart documentation of rodeo cruelty, and the resulting injuries and deaths.

To see some of the footage that SHARK investigators have captured, go to TheCruelTruth.com

As you review these records, you will notice that rodeos that are regularly investigated have a record of consistent injuries. Contrary to claims by rodeo apologists, it is obvious that rodeos are cruel and in fact perilous to animals. For this reason, requests from SHARK to review various rodeo association animal injury records have all been denied.

Note: There are some 5000 rodeos held annually in the US, only about one-third of which are professionally sanctioned. The Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association (PRCA), the nation's largest rodeo organization with about 8,000 members, sponsors about 800 rodeos each year, mostly west of the Mississippi River. The second largest rodeo organization, the International Professional Rodeo Association (IPRA), sponsors rodeos mostly east of the Rocky Mountains.

Emergency teams are onsite at rodeos, ready to aid rodeo contestants. Even though some rodeo associations require a veterinarian onsite SHARK's investigations show that this rule is regularly violated. This further demonstrates rodeo's view of animals as disposable objects.

do you think horse racing is cruel?

I grew up in cattle/rodeo country and will be the first to admit attending them on a regular basis in the past (the fairs/rodeos were THE events of the year for our communities, lol), however I have a different view of them today.
The problem is that there is this grey area where I think what is reasonable in PRACTICAL use is not appropriate to be used as "entertainment" - for example, calf roping is necessary when working calves in a ranch situation but should NOT be used for purely entertainment/competition purposes, imo. The same logic also applies to cutting and penning - again, I understand their PRACTICAL need when one is actually working cattle but I don't see the justification of them as purely entertainment/competition. Yes, they are "just cows" (hate hearing "just" applied to ANY living creature) but it does put a psychological strain on the animal for nothing more than human entertainment in a rodeo situation - that, imo, is wrong.
Bull and Bronc riding are, imo, cruel.
Precision events such as barrel riding, reigning and shooting are not necessarily "cruel" in and of themselves, imo, but there are those who manage to inflict cruelty on the horses in the process. However you do get into the argument that, again, it is use of an animal for pure entertainment purposes......it's hard to know where the line ought to be drawn, kwim?

For the record, I compete in barrel racing, team penning, calf roping, cutting, and used to do reigning until peppy's knees got bad. I have plenty of cowboy friends who participate in bull riding and bull fighting (they stand in the ring and run from the bull). So I'm going to stay at arm's length, but wanted to see what people thought. :)

Testimonial from a Professional
http://www.sharkonline.org/abuseinherent.mv
ANIMAL ABUSE INHERENT IN RODEO
Peggy W. Larson, DVM, MS, JD

"In order for a calf roper to become proficient he must spend a great deal of time practicing. Baby calves sold to the practice pens are roped over and over until they are injured or killed."

During the course of my lifetime, I have been a farmer, bareback bronc rider in the rodeo, a large animal veterinarian, a medical researcher, a meat inspector, a state veterinarian, and a prosecutor. I have also worked with the media as a consultant on animal abuse issues including rodeo and PMU horses.

Based upon my extensive experience with large animals, I have come to the conclusion that rodeo events are inherently inhumane. The most cruel are the roping events.

In calf roping, baby calves weighing less than 300 pounds are forced to run at speeds in excess of 25 miles per hour when they are roped. The reason they run at such high speeds is that they are being tortured in the holding chute. Their tails are twisted, their tails are rubbed back and forth over the steel bars of the chute and they are shocked with electric prods until the gate opens. They burst out of the chute at top speed only to be stopped short -- clotheslined -- with a choking rope around the neck. They are often injured and some are killed. These calves would still be with their mothers on pasture if they were not in the rodeo.

In order for a calf roper to become proficient he must spend a great deal of time practicing. Baby calves sold to the practice pens are roped over and over until they are injured or killed. Dr. T. K. Hardy, a veterinarian who was also a calf roper, was quoted in Newsweek stating that calf roping is an expensive sport. He stated that 2 or 3 calves are injured in each practice session and have to be replaced.

As a pathologist and former meat inspector, I believe my colleagues when they report horrendous injuries to rodeo cattle. Dr. C. G. Haber, a veterinarian with thirty years experience as a USDA meat inspector says: "The rodeo folks send their animals to the packing houses where...I have seen cattle so extensively bruised that the only areas in which the skin was attached was the head, neck, legs, and belly. I have seen animals with six to eight ribs broken from the spine and at times puncturing the lungs. I have seen as much as two and three gallons of free blood accumulated under the detached skin."

A career USDA meat inspection veterinarian, Dr. Robert Fetzner, Director of Slaughter Operations for FSIS (USDA) stated in our phone conversation on September 9, 1998, "Lots of rodeo animals went to slaughter. I found broken ribs, punctured lungs, hematomas, broken legs, severed tracheas and the ligamenta nuchae were torn loose." Torn ligamenta nuchae are broken necks.

This is the cruel fate of baby cows in rodeos.

"As with roping calves, tripping steers may be used over and over again in practice sessions. When they are crippled from the repeated abuse, they are sent to slaughter."


As with calf roping, steer tripping puts a rodeo animal at extreme risk of injury or death. Steers weighing approximately 700 pounds are forced to run at top speed while the roper throws the rope around the steer's horns. The roper then flips the rope over the right side of the steer, while turning his galloping horse to the left.

Within a split second, the steer's head and neck are jerked 180 degrees and more, causing the animal to be violently tripped, rolled and dragged for approximately 30 feet. That's a 700 pound body being dragged by the neck, with the horns digging into the dirt. Sometimes the horns fracture. The stress to the neck is enormous.

The roper's intent is to make the steer sustain a sufficiently violent fall and subsequent dragging to stun him. The purpose of the stunning is merely to enable the roper to tie the steer's legs for a score. If the steer is not sufficiently stunned in the first attempt, he may be tripped and dragged repeatedly in the same run until he stays down.

These steers are usually very thin, with sores on their backs and hips. They appear to be depressed, not lively. They are used so often that their injuries do not have time to heal. As with roping calves, tripping steers may be used over and over again in practice sessions. When they are crippled from the repeated abuse, they are sent to slaughter.

Animals also injured and killed in other rodeo events.

Bull riding may appear less harmful, as the bulls are so large. However, in order to enhance the bull's performance, cattle prods are often used to repeatedly shock the bulls as they stand trapped in the bucking chute. Bucking straps and spurs can cause the bull to buck beyond his capability and his legs or back can be broken. Eventually, when bulls cease to provide a wild ride, they too are sent to slaughter.

Bronc riding, both saddle and bareback, causes the deaths of many rodeo horses. It is common for horses in these events to crash blindly into posts in the fencing around the arena or into the holding fencing and chutes. Bucking horses must be spurred over the shoulders on each jump or buck for the rider to qualify. The spurs cause blunt trauma to the shoulders which again never have time to heal properly before the horse is ridden and spurred in another rodeo.

The bucking strap often causes chafing to the flank area, which increases the discomfort to the horse. The irritation of the spurs and the bucking strap often cause the horse to "run blind" and fail to see fencing, posts or chutes.

"Instead of humanely euthanizing the suffering animal, the rodeo people chose to ship her, leg dangling, across two states in a transport truck with other horses. She died before she could be killed at the slaughterhouse."


Horses (and cattle) have to be shipped from one rodeo to the next, often in double-deck trailers. These trailers are very dangerous because the horses often fight during transport. The same type of fighting may occur with the bulls when they are shipped.

Dr. Temple Grandin at Colorado State University works with the cattle industry on humane treatment of animals. She states one case in which a bucking horse suffered a badly broken front leg. Instead of humanely euthanizing the suffering animal, the rodeo people chose to ship her, leg dangling, across two states in a transport truck with other horses. She died before she could be killed at the slaughterhouse.

Dr. Grandin also states that transport injuries and fighting are major causes of injuries in horses. Rodeo animals are constantly in transit.

Steer wrestling also causes injuries and deaths. In this event a steer is forced to run at top speed while a contestant leaps from his horse, grabs the horns of the steer and twists his neck until he falls to the ground.

In one case involving a rodeo steer in Connecticut the steer did not fall when the rider jumped on his head. In response, the competitor violently twisted the steer's head again. When he fell, the steer suffered a broken neck.

A number of cities across the US have passed ordinances eliminating rodeo's tools of torture -- the electric prod, spurs and the flank strap -- all of which use pain to force the animals to "perform." It is no accident that where these devices are eliminated, rodeos disappear. Without torture, there can be no rodeo.

In my opinion, and based on my extensive training and experience, it is impossible to create a humane rodeo.

ANIMAL ABUSE INHERENT IN RODEO
Peggy W. Larson, DVM, MS, JD

"In order for a calf roper to become proficient he must spend a great deal of time practicing. Baby calves sold to the practice pens are roped over and over until they are injured or killed."


During the course of my lifetime, I have been a farmer, bareback bronc rider in the rodeo, a large animal veterinarian, a medical researcher, a meat inspector, a state veterinarian, and a prosecutor. I have also worked with the media as a consultant on animal abuse issues including rodeo and PMU horses.

Based upon my extensive experience with large animals, I have come to the conclusion that rodeo events are inherently inhumane. The most cruel are the roping events.

In calf roping, baby calves weighing less than 300 pounds are forced to run at speeds in excess of 25 miles per hour when they are roped. The reason they run at such high speeds is that they are being tortured in the holding chute. Their tails are twisted, their tails are rubbed back and forth over the steel bars of the chute and they are shocked with electric prods until the gate opens. They burst out of the chute at top speed only to be stopped short -- clotheslined -- with a choking rope around the neck. They are often injured and some are killed. These calves would still be with their mothers on pasture if they were not in the rodeo.

In order for a calf roper to become proficient he must spend a great deal of time practicing. Baby calves sold to the practice pens are roped over and over until they are injured or killed. Dr. T. K. Hardy, a veterinarian who was also a calf roper, was quoted in Newsweek stating that calf roping is an expensive sport. He stated that 2 or 3 calves are injured in each practice session and have to be replaced.

As a pathologist and former meat inspector, I believe my colleagues when they report horrendous injuries to rodeo cattle. Dr. C. G. Haber, a veterinarian with thirty years experience as a USDA meat inspector says: "The rodeo folks send their animals to the packing houses where...I have seen cattle so extensively bruised that the only areas in which the skin was attached was the head, neck, legs, and belly. I have seen animals with six to eight ribs broken from the spine and at times puncturing the lungs. I have seen as much as two and three gallons of free blood accumulated under the detached skin."

A career USDA meat inspection veterinarian, Dr. Robert Fetzner, Director of Slaughter Operations for FSIS (USDA) stated in our phone conversation on September 9, 1998, "Lots of rodeo animals went to slaughter. I found broken ribs, punctured lungs, hematomas, broken legs, severed tracheas and the ligamenta nuchae were torn loose." Torn ligamenta nuchae are broken necks.

This is the cruel fate of baby cows in rodeos.

"As with roping calves, tripping steers may be used over and over again in practice sessions. When they are crippled from the repeated abuse, they are sent to slaughter."


As with calf roping, steer tripping puts a rodeo animal at extreme risk of injury or death. Steers weighing approximately 700 pounds are forced to run at top speed while the roper throws the rope around the steer's horns. The roper then flips the rope over the right side of the steer, while turning his galloping horse to the left.

Within a split second, the steer's head and neck are jerked 180 degrees and more, causing the animal to be violently tripped, rolled and dragged for approximately 30 feet. That's a 700 pound body being dragged by the neck, with the horns digging into the dirt. Sometimes the horns fracture. The stress to the neck is enormous.

The roper's intent is to make the steer sustain a sufficiently violent fall and subsequent dragging to stun him. The purpose of the stunning is merely to enable the roper to tie the steer's legs for a score. If the steer is not sufficiently stunned in the first attempt, he may be tripped and dragged repeatedly in the same run until he stays down.

These steers are usually very thin, with sores on their backs and hips. They appear to be depressed, not lively. They are used so often that their injuries do not have time to heal. As with roping calves, tripping steers may be used over and over again in practice sessions. When they are crippled from the repeated abuse, they are sent to slaughter.

Animals also injured and killed in other rodeo events.

Bull riding may appear less harmful, as the bulls are so large. However, in order to enhance the bull's performance, cattle prods are often used to repeatedly shock the bulls as they stand trapped in the bucking chute. Bucking straps and spurs can cause the bull to buck beyond his capability and his legs or back can be broken. Eventually, when bulls cease to provide a wild ride, they too are sent to slaughter.

Bronc riding, both saddle and bareback, causes the deaths of many rodeo horses. It is common for horses in these events to crash blindly into posts in the fencing around the arena or into the holding fencing and chutes. Bucking horses must be spurred over the shoulders on each jump or buck for the rider to qualify. The spurs cause blunt trauma to the shoulders which again never have time to heal properly before the horse is ridden and spurred in another rodeo.

The bucking strap often causes chafing to the flank area, which increases the discomfort to the horse. The irritation of the spurs and the bucking strap often cause the horse to "run blind" and fail to see fencing, posts or chutes.

"Instead of humanely euthanizing the suffering animal, the rodeo people chose to ship her, leg dangling, across two states in a transport truck with other horses. She died before she could be killed at the slaughterhouse."


Horses (and cattle) have to be shipped from one rodeo to the next, often in double-deck trailers. These trailers are very dangerous because the horses often fight during transport. The same type of fighting may occur with the bulls when they are shipped.

Dr. Temple Grandin at Colorado State University works with the cattle industry on humane treatment of animals. She states one case in which a bucking horse suffered a badly broken front leg. Instead of humanely euthanizing the suffering animal, the rodeo people chose to ship her, leg dangling, across two states in a transport truck with other horses. She died before she could be killed at the slaughterhouse.

Dr. Grandin also states that transport injuries and fighting are major causes of injuries in horses. Rodeo animals are constantly in transit.

Steer wrestling also causes injuries and deaths. In this event a steer is forced to run at top speed while a contestant leaps from his horse, grabs the horns of the steer and twists his neck until he falls to the ground.

In one case involving a rodeo steer in Connecticut the steer did not fall when the rider jumped on his head. In response, the competitor violently twisted the steer's head again. When he fell, the steer suffered a broken neck.

A number of cities across the US have passed ordinances eliminating rodeo's tools of torture -- the electric prod, spurs and the flank strap -- all of which use pain to force the animals to "perform." It is no accident that where these devices are eliminated, rodeos disappear. Without torture, there can be no rodeo.

In my opinion, and based on my extensive training and experience, it is impossible to create a humane rodeo.

Im a small town country girl and the rodeos and livestock shows were the thing of the year. I dont see them as cruel to animals. But I love bull riding and bronc riding. but then again I am also a hunter.

Yes, I am against horse racing, I'm against dog racing, I'm against Circuses who use animals for entertainment, etc...

There are a lot of things that were 'traditional' when I grew up, or things we did that I don't see as right anymore. Just because someone has done something for a long time doesn't make it right ya know?

Yes, I am against horse racing, I'm against dog racing, I'm against Circuses who use animals for entertainment, etc...

i'm against them too :) just asking

I love it all and don't think it is cruel. I used to ride barrels as well and miss that so much. It actually tests the agility of the animal.

sdshorty, not picking on you but you have provided the most opposing information, have you ever been to a rodeo?

Unfortunately yes, I"m from Mexico, nuf said, LOL

I've been to Rodeos, I've been to horse races, I've been to circuses with animals. When I was younger it didn't seem like that big of a deal, it was entertaining for me. Not until I grew older and started to think more logically and began to realize, that just because something is fun to watch doesn't mean its OK

Ohhhh yeah Mexico's rodeos are horrible.

Yea, but I've been to all that stuff not just in Mexico, here too.

Can I ask what you find cruel about, say, barrel racing?

Again, not picking on you, just debating, k?

Barrel racing and cow cutting arent cruel...Neither are some of the other.

The event of Barrel Racing itself seems harmless. However, its how its achieved and what the animals are put through that is the cruel part. How an animal is treated if they don't perform correctly, or if they don't do as they are directed to do. Too often they are 'punished' for it. The conditions animals are kept in, and what they are forced to do even if they don't want to, or if perhaps they are hurt in anyway, they are still forced to perform. THAT is what I am against when it comes to events that seem like just 'fun and harmless' events. All of these things of course are never shown to the public. NOW I'm not saying ALL riders and peformers treat their animals in a cruel manner and that ALL Rodeo participants don't care about the animals at all. But sadly, when there is such a huge amount of animals being hurt because of the WHOLE Rodeo in general, that is enough to be against it ALL.

Let me put it this way. If you have a child participate in a pageant, all most of the events are harmless, but a couple of the events in the pageant required them to humiliate themselves, or get hurt in some way, wouldn't you be against the ENTIRE pageant? You (not YOU personally) wouldn't say, oh well since its just a couple of events that are bad and not all the children are being hurt, then its ok to have the pageant. Of course not!

Im a small town country girl and the rodeos and livestock shows were the thing of the year. I dont see them as cruel to animals. But I love bull riding and bronc riding. but then again I am also a hunter.

I have to say I agree here.. But then again, I'm from a family that raised cattle and has had horses my entire life. We're typical Texans.. my dad is a cowboy and all the men before him in my family were as well. And I do not mean the "cowboy" who puts on tight wranglers and feeds a woman a line of BS about what they've done. I can spot those guys a mile away and they're funny..LOL I miss ranch life so much.

We hunt, we fish, we watch rodeo, and some of my family have even participated! I guess we're just barbaric.

Barrel racing and cow cutting arent cruel...Neither are some of the other.


Yea, but when you go to the Rodeo, you are supporting ALL of the rodeo, including the events that hurt and kill animals. You are giving your time and money to the WHOLE thing.

Personally, I have never seen someone "punish" their horses for not performing good enough. I know everyone I have ever known has still rewarded the horse no matter the performance. Of course those things happen I'm sure, but I don't think it happens as often as someone who hates rodeos would think.

Dog shows are purely for entertainment, do you consider those cruel?

Not all rodeos are bad... Some treat the livestock very well.

Not all rodeos are bad... Some treat the livestock very well.

:yes

sdshorty you can't say ALL rodeos punish and mistreat their animals if they misbehave. i'm sure some do but not all. i can't tell you that the houston rodeo is very safe for animals

Personally, I have never seen someone "punish" their horses for not performing good enough. I know everyone I have ever known has still rewarded the horse no matter the performance. Of course those things happen I'm sure, but I don't think it happens as often as someone who hates rodeos would think.


:yes

I'm not very well versed on Dog Shows, so I can't really speak on those and give my opinon on it since I don't know much about them. The only thing I know, is that because of things like dog shows, animals continue to be bred, and because they don't come out 'perfect', thousands of animals get needlessly euthanized or end up homeless and in shelters. I'm against breeding, so I guess maybe by association I could be against dog shows.

My overall view on the use of animals for entertainment is this. Just because some events are 'ok', doesn't make the whole industry ok. Animals, just like children, are innocent beings that cannot speak or choose for themselves.

I love rodeos... whether they are considered cruel or not. I guess maybe that makes me a bad person but whatever. I also eat hamburgers and all types of meat so I may not be all that sensitive to animal rights anyway. Now, dog fighting or cock fighting or say bullfighting in Spain where an animal is pretty much tortured until they die... that's WAY different than a rodeo in my eyes.

yea not ALL Rodeos may be 'bad', but that doesn't make the industry as a whole OK. In my eyes, it never will.

Its just like my view on eating meat.

Even if I raised the cow myself and gave it a good life, I still wouldn't kill it and EAT it. (ok, this logic makes sense in my head, but I don't know if it will make sense to anyone else, LOL)

I love rodeos... whether they are considered cruel or not. I guess maybe that makes me a bad person but whatever. I also eat hamburgers and all types of meat so I may not be all that sensitive to animal rights anyway. Now, dog fighting or cock fighting or say bullfighting in Spain where an animal is pretty much tortured until they die... that's WAY different than a rodeo in my eyes.

exactly :yes

yea not ALL Rodeos may be 'bad', but that doesn't make the industry as a whole OK. In my eyes, it never will.

Its just like my view on eating meat.

Even if I raised the cow myself and gave it a good life, I still wouldn't kill it and EAT it. (ok, this logic makes sense in my head, but I don't know if it will make sense to anyone else, LOL)

The internet as a whole isn't bad, but people abuse it (child porn, sexual predators, scams, etc). By posting on SOS, does that mean I support the entire internet and all the internet has therein?

Horses are natural runners...What else would you do with a horse just let it get no excerisze.

Dog shows are NOT THE REASON THAT THERE ARE TOO MANY DOGS...ITS PEOPLE WHO HAVE NORMAL DOGS AND DONT FIX THEM! grr!

LOL Ok now you are comparing oranges and apples. Rodeos and animal cruelty and how animals are killed and hurt have nothing to do with what the internet offers.

LOL Ok now you are comparing oranges and apples. Rodeos and animal cruelty and how animals are killed and hurt have nothing to do with what the internet offers.

i believe she was using your logic that you say not all rodeos are bad but by supporting one rodeo you are supporting them all/the industry.

Okay, how about the circus? Some say that the circus is cruel to animals and people (side shows) so if you go to the circus to see, let's say the clowns... are you condoning animal and people cruelty?

i believe she was using your logic that you say not all rodeos are bad but by supporting one rodeo you are supporting them all/the industry.

Thank you :)

Horses are natural runners...What else would you do with a horse just let it get no excerisze.

Dog shows are NOT THE REASON THAT THERE ARE TOO MANY DOGS...ITS PEOPLE WHO HAVE NORMAL DOGS AND DONT FIX THEM! grr!

Jenny, breeders breed, they purposely make more animals. Question for ya, about how many puppies would you say a professional breeder 'makes' in their entire career as a breeder? I KNOW breeders don't keep all the animals that are born. What exactly happens to all those animals that don't meet the 'standards'? Where do those animals go?

Sorry, this is threadjacking, and I know its a subject that has already been thoroughly debated.

i believe she was using your logic that you say not all rodeos are bad but by supporting one rodeo you are supporting them all/the industry.


I understand that, but my logic was directly related to animal cruelty, not every aspect in life.

Okay, how about the circus? Some say that the circus is cruel to animals and people (side shows) so if you go to the circus to see, let's say the clowns... are you condoning animal and people cruelty?

i absolutely think circus' are cruel. they "train" these animals to do things that are completely out of their nature like making elephants stand on their hind legs

Okay, how about the circus? Some say that the circus is cruel to animals and people (side shows) so if you go to the circus to see, let's say the clowns... are you condoning animal and people cruelty?


YEP. If you go to a circus that has animals, you are indeed supporting animal cruelty. You are paying the people who hurt these animals. You are paying the owners of the circus who buy these animals and allow the cruelty to continue. That is why you choose to go to a circus with NO animals. there are circuses that don't allow animals in their shows.

Ok I'm just gonna drop the internet example, since you refuse to see the "logic" I was pointing out because it isn't related to animal cruelty.

YEP. If you go to a circus that has animals, you are indeed supporting animal cruelty. You are paying the people who hurt these animals. You are paying the owners of the circus who buy these animals and allow the cruelty to continue. That is why you choose to go to a circus with NO animals. there are circuses that don't allow animals in their shows.

Even circus' wherein they only use the snakes as an accessory, draped across the shoulders? Snakes aren't trained or anything. They just live and get fed, and get taken out just to be "worn". Is that cruelty?

Renee, you should read the other post...People dont understand. Why dont you ask my aussie what happened to him since he wasnt show qaulity, he lives with us. There are things called pet quality and show quality. Our west coast parents have 5 aussies and 1 is show quality the rest are champions in agility, rally, and herding.

I dont understand why people think they just toss them out on the streets. I think that if people are going to pass judgement they should really know the ins and outs of things like dogs and such.

If people just toss animals on the street then wouldnt there be like a butt ton of say stray borzoi's running around?

I've only been to one rodeo and I was probably 4 or 5... since then I've only caught glimpses of them on tv. I don't see it as being cruel. I think a large majority of riders/trainers/owners treat their animals quite well. It's their investment (time, money, effort)... like a car- you don't get a new one and trash it, ya know? Though there are always exceptions and it's unfortunate...

In general I think rodeos are a great display of skill, precision, etc. and demonstrate the way "real cowboys" work.

Renee, you should read the other post...People dont understand. Why dont you ask my aussie what happened to him since he wasnt show qaulity, he lives with us. There are things called pet quality and show quality. Our west coast parents have 5 aussies and 1 is show quality the rest are champions in agility, rally, and herding.

I dont understand why people think they just toss them out on the streets. I think that if people are going to pass judgement they should really know the ins and outs of things like dogs and such.

If people just toss animals on the street then wouldnt there be like a butt ton of say stray borzoi's running around?

So if a breeder's dogs end up having 12 puppies, are you telling me they keep ALL the puppies? What if they have 40 puppies in the career as breeders, do they keep all those puppies too? What happens when a breeders has more puppies that they can handle, where do those puppies go? I'm truly curious. Don't they get 'sold'? And how does the breeder know where these puppies are going, how do they know those puppies won't end up on the streets and shelters when they grow older? How can ever single breeder in the country GUARANTEE that NONE of their animals will EVER end up homeless?

Jenny, breeders breed, they purposely make more animals. Question for ya, about how many puppies would you say a professional breeder 'makes' in their entire career as a breeder? I KNOW breeders don't keep all the animals that are born. What exactly happens to all those animals that don't meet the 'standards'? Where do those animals go?

Sorry, this is threadjacking, and I know its a subject that has already been thoroughly debated.

You do realize that those same type breeders exist for all pets right? So by purchasing a pet, like say a guinea pig, does that mean you support breeders. You may have purchased your little guys from a rescue, I don't know. But the market exists because people will pay for them. The breeders exist because of the market.

I realize that, that's why I don't buy pets from petstores. I rescue animals who have ended up homeless because of needless breeding. If stopping all breeding meant I couldn't have ANY animals, that would be perfectly fine with me.

So if a breeder's dogs end up having 12 puppies, are you telling me they keep ALL the puppies? What if they have 40 puppies in the career as breeders, do they keep all those puppies too? What happens when a breeders has more puppies that they can handle, where do those puppies go? I'm truly curious. Don't they get 'sold'? And how does the breeder know where these puppies are going, how do they know those puppies won't end up on the streets and shelters when they grow older? How can ever single breeder in the country GUARANTEE that NONE of their animals will EVER end up homeless?

Please take this to the dog breeder/show debate topic. I'm trying to get people's opinions on rodeos.

Shorty I am not as well informed as you but I agree with everything you have said.

So if a breeder's dogs end up having 12 puppies, are you telling me they keep ALL the puppies? What if they have 40 puppies in the career as breeders, do they keep all those puppies too? What happens when a breeders has more puppies that they can handle, where do those puppies go? I'm truly curious. Don't they get 'sold'? And how does the breeder know where these puppies are going, how do they know those puppies won't end up on the streets and shelters when they grow older? How can ever single breeder in the country GUARANTEE that NONE of their animals will EVER end up homeless?

I get what you're saying... but I don't think a whole lot of people drop $500 or whatever on a pet with the intentions of letting it run the streets. I mean... dogs do dig out of fences, run off, etc. Things like that are inevitable so of course there's no guarantee...

Please take this to the dog breeder/show debate topic. I'm trying to get people's opinions on rodeos.

sorry!! :) i got sucked in :giggle

I realize that, that's why I don't buy pets from petstores. I rescue animals who have ended up homeless because of needless breeding. If stopping all breeding meant I couldn't have ANY animals, that would be perfectly fine with me.

People want pets... this is the whole basis for breeding. If people didn't want pets and didn't demand a selection then there would be no breeding problem. It's actually simple supply and demand so pretty much every pet owner, including myself, contribute to the breeding market. I didn't purchase my cat, I got it off freecycle from a woman who did not get her cat's fixed and because of that, had more than she could handle. Neglectful owners are just as guilty as breeders when it comes to pet over-crowding which leads to abuse.

Please take this to the dog breeder/show debate topic. I'm trying to get people's opinions on rodeos.


Sorry, I didn't bring up this topic in this thread, I was just replying to it. You are the one that asked me about Dog Shows, that's how it lead to this :shrug

But I apologize for the threadjack.

:offtopic

Rodeos!

I have to say I agree here.. But then again, I'm from a family that raised cattle and has had horses my entire life. We're typical Texans.. my dad is a cowboy and all the men before him in my family were as well. And I do not mean the "cowboy" who puts on tight wranglers and feeds a woman a line of BS about what they've done. I can spot those guys a mile away and they're funny..LOL I miss ranch life so much.

We hunt, we fish, we watch rodeo, and some of my family have even participated! I guess we're just barbaric.
i love the barbaric part :lol I wouldnt say that we are necissarily barbaric just Texan. Down home southern girls born and bred. We have raised cattle since before my dad was born, on the same piece of land. I havent owned a horse but i know more than enough people on the rodeo circuit to know that not everyone "punishes" their horses. I have never seen anyone punish their horse for a bad performance. Guess I go to the wrong rodeos.

People want pets... this is the whole basis for breeding. If people didn't want pets and didn't demand a selection then there would be no breeding problem. It's actually simple supply and demand so pretty much every pet owner, including myself, contribute to the breeding market. I didn't purchase my cat, I got it off freecycle from a woman who did not get her cat's fixed and because of that, had more than she could handle. Neglectful owners are just as guilty as breeders when it comes to pet over-crowding which leads to abuse.


Sorry Tawny, I know we are supposed to drop this topic, but I just have to say I actually agree with this whole comment. I agree that not just breeders add to the overpopulation, never said they were the only ones.

Please take this to the dog breeder/show debate topic. I'm trying to get people's opinions on rodeos.

You know I can only do one thread at a time! :tears


:lol

Hehe, yea anyway, back to Rodeos. I've said my peace, I'll never see them as anything other than cruel to animals. Unless ALL the events that blatantly hurt and kills animals are removed from ALL rodeos.

I really have never experienced the rodeo other than riding a mechanical bull one (which I had a pretty great talent going) but I will say that I have often been very sad with the whole Roping thing. :tears I cant imagine the poor animals feel too good with that. So I guess I would say I think it IS cruel.

Hehe, yea anyway, back to Rodeos. I've said my peace, I'll never see them as anything other than cruel to animals. Unless ALL the events that blatantly hurt and kills animals are removed from ALL rodeos.

Ok I see what you're saying BUT you also said that any even that uses animals purely for entertainment like barrel racing does, is cruelty. Maybe I misread that.

So if a horse does barrel racing its cruel because the animal dies?

Just like some animals are ment to work, some have things like barrel racing in their blood.

Ok I see what you're saying BUT you also said that any even that uses animals purely for entertainment like barrel racing does, is cruelty. Maybe I misread that.


Yes you are right, so I guess to clarify, if a Rodeo had events that did not include the hurting of animals, and the events that were left that are supposed to be 'just for fun' and are not meant to hurt the animal in anyway, were STRICTLY policed, and it was GUARANTEED that those animals were treated in the best of conditions and were never forced to perform especially if they were hurt in anyway (leg strain, etc). It MIGHT be ok, but I know that will never happen :neutral.

Unfortunately, you're right. It will never be completely guaranteed. But I don't think punishing those of us that follow the rules and laws and treat our horses better than we treat ourselves should be made to stop doing what we love, kwim?

I know it seems like Little Man LOVES getting out there and picking out a calf from the herd. He'll try to do it even when he's not competing :giggle

MAYBE bull riding and bronc riding MIGHT be considered cruelty because they strap then so they'll buck but it's just as cruel to the riders, sometimes more so... I would venture to say that more riders have died for "sport" than broncs or bulls. Those horses, bulls, cattle, goats, etc... are treated well because they are those people's livelihoods in most cases. That prize bull that gives those riders the most trouble is a cash cow for those owners and they will do whatever is necessary to keep him healthy and active. To think otherwise just isn't logical to me.

Unfortunately, you're right. It will never be completely guaranteed. But I don't think punishing those of us that follow the rules and laws and treat our horses better than we treat ourselves should be made to stop doing what we love, kwim?

I know it seems like Little Man LOVES getting out there and picking out a calf from the herd. He'll try to do it even when he's not competing :giggle

Oh of course not, I know there are plenty of people who treat their animals very well. I would never want to stop an animal from doing what it instinctively wants to do. But I don't see why it needs to be done for the entertainment of the general public. That just asking for trouble and higher chances of cruelty occuring ya know? Of course horses are meant to run, and cattle herd. But that is something that should be happening out in their natural environments or on farms where they are closely monitored and taken care of. I totally commend those that treat their animals with the care and respect that they deserve.

MAYBE bull riding and bronc riding MIGHT be considered cruelty because they strap then so they'll buck but it's just as cruel to the riders, sometimes more so... I would venture to say that more riders have died for "sport" than broncs or bulls. Those horses, bulls, cattle, goats, etc... are treated well because they are those people's livelihoods in most cases. That prize bull that gives those riders the most trouble is a cash cow for those owners and they will do whatever is necessary to keep him healthy and active. To think otherwise just isn't logical to me.

Absolutely! Thank you!

Oh of course not, I know there are plenty of people who treat their animals very well. I would never want to stop an animal from doing what it instinctively wants to do. But I don't see why it needs to be done for the entertainment of the general public. That just asking for trouble and higher chances of cruelty occuring ya know? Of course horses are meant to run, and cattle herd. But that is something that should be happening out in their natural environments or on farms where they are closely monitored and taken care of. I totally commend those that treat their animals with the care and respect that they deserve.

A lot of the reason is because of what Chewie said. They are basically the reason that a lot of rodeo families are able to live and eat. They get treated VERY well by most rodeo families and cowboys. I know cowboys that if you stole their truck they'd be pissed, if you stole their horse(s) they'd kill you.

A lot of the reason is because of what Chewie said. They are basically the reason that a lot of rodeo families are able to live and eat. They get treated VERY well by most rodeo families and cowboys. I know cowboys that if you stole their truck they'd be pissed, if you stole their horse(s) they'd kill you.

Truly and if you're familiar at all with nationals or even some state rodeos... those animal are just as famous and recognizable as their riders! Those animals are celebrities in that arena but you may have to be familiar with the whole scene to notice.

Truly and if you're familiar at all with nationals or even some state rodeos... those animal are just as famous and recognizable as their riders! Those animals are celebrities in that arena but you may have to be familiar with the whole scene to notice.

happens with the houston rodeo. plus those big rodeos are great ways for kids in FFA or 4-H to pay for college. they raise their animals and then sell/auction them for thousands and thousands of dollars. my friend one year made almost $20,000 for her pig at the houston rodeo

I think most of those are skills-- except Bull riding & Bronc riding-- I think that's just for show- the other stuff had a purpose and isn't meant to hurt the animals, just get the job done. I think the running of the Bulls and Bullfighting and cockfighting & dog fighting & bear baiting are Evil.

do you think horse racing is cruel?

Definitely, I saw a show on that- and just look at Barbaro

also, dog racing is bad- those dogs have horrible lives unless they get rescued & rehabbed & fostered to a family

Definitely, I saw a show on that- and just look at Barbaro

also, dog racing is bad- those dogs have horrible lives unless they get rescued & rehabbed & fostered to a family

i agree i hate horse and dog racing. so many of those poor greyhounds get put down after only like a year or two of racing because they are past their "prime". thankfully in tx we have a huge greyhound rescue place.

Definitely, I saw a show on that- and just look at Barbaro

also, dog racing is bad- those dogs have horrible lives unless they get rescued & rehabbed & fostered to a family

Barbaro's injury wasn't due to cruelty though. He was a thoroughbred, and thoroughbreds LOVE to run. They run all over even after retirement and as colts. That had every chance of happening even if he had never been on the horse racing circuit.

Truly and if you're familiar at all with nationals or even some state rodeos... those animal are just as famous and recognizable as their riders! Those animals are celebrities in that arena but you may have to be familiar with the whole scene to notice.

If not more so! :yes

Barbaro's injury wasn't due to cruelty though. He was a thoroughbred, and thoroughbreds LOVE to run. They run all over even after retirement and as colts. That had every chance of happening even if he had never been on the horse racing circuit.

true. i just think that there are more hazards for horses when they are running on tracks. jmo

true. i just think that there are more hazards for horses when they are running on tracks. jmo

Yeah, there are hazards. They try really really hard to keep the tracks up. If the tracks have huge clumps and stuff, they'll push races back for hours to fix the issue. If they're too hard, they get watered down and "tilled". Most tracks are actually less hazardous to run on then, say, an open field, kwim?

The racehorse industry is worse than the rodeo industry imo because they are less likely to keep a horse until it's older years because most racehorses hit their prime at 3-3 1/2 years old, whereas rodeo horses can compete till they're old.

Yeah, there are hazards. They try really really hard to keep the tracks up. If the tracks have huge clumps and stuff, they'll push races back for hours to fix the issue. If they're too hard, they get watered down and "tilled". Most tracks are actually less hazardous to run on then, say, an open field, kwim?

The racehorse industry is worse than the rodeo industry imo because they are less likely to keep a horse until it's older years because most racehorses hit their prime at 3-3 1/2 years old, whereas rodeo horses can compete till they're old.

i agree. plus the "rodeo industry" has many great opportunities for youth and everything and college scholarships ESPECIALLY in the south.

i agree. plus the "rodeo industry" has many great opportunities for youth and everything and college scholarships ESPECIALLY in the south.

:yes

:yes

like i said a few pages back my friend got $20,000 for her pig one year at the houston rodeo when it got auctioned off. another friend of mine got almost $100K for her steer

Yeah, there are hazards. They try really really hard to keep the tracks up. If the tracks have huge clumps and stuff, they'll push races back for hours to fix the issue. If they're too hard, they get watered down and "tilled". Most tracks are actually less hazardous to run on then, say, an open field, kwim?

The racehorse industry is worse than the rodeo industry imo because they are less likely to keep a horse until it's older years because most racehorses hit their prime at 3-3 1/2 years old, whereas rodeo horses can compete till they're old.

Yeah, those racing horses work their hearts out for a few years, and then what? I just think the industry needs to do a better job of getting them terrific environments and homes after they've worked so hard even if they didn't have a lot of wins and didn't make that much money.

Yeah, those racing horses work their hearts out for a few years, and then what? I just think the industry needs to do a better job of getting them terrific environments and homes after they've worked so hard even if they didn't have a lot of wins and didn't make that much money.

I agree. I would lovelovelove to run a racehorse retirement facility :wub

I also want to run a horse rescue and rehabilitate horses. That would be my dream :yes

I used to be a barrel racer. My horse loved it. I loved it ,in no way were they treated cruel.

I grew up going to Rodeos and alot of my friends and family compete in them.

The only event that I'm not a big fan of is the Wild horse race.They have taken that event out of alot of Rodeos.

That's a great idea! But Hard work!!

Yep, wild horse races are horrible, oh and horse tripping. I despise that event with all of my being. :reallymad

I will not support any rodeo, it is huge here in Arizona they even have a Rodeo weekend off from school. I had friends that ride in it as well growing up, one in particular was a girl friend of mine she had no business on a horse she was so hard on that poor animal. She did barrel racing which if the rider is not a good rider can hurt the horse. Knocking into the barrels etc.

She was hard on the bit and was constantly hurting the horses mouth, creating sores. To the point that the horse refused to let HER near her. So of course her family sold her saying the mare didn't like females. Complete bull pucky she just didn't like HER.

My Mom used to be very involved with 4H and the rodeo as a teen & young woman. She has shared some pretty sad stories about cruelty to animals and won't have anything to do with the rodeo any more.

I don't take my kid's to the rodeo or the circus. don't get me started on what I think of horse racing or greyhound racing.

The first rodeo was in Pecos Texas in 1883. The rodeo was something that came from Mexico and Americans liked it. It is a South Western thing originally and spread to where ever western style riding was used.

Barbaro's injury wasn't due to cruelty though. He was a thoroughbred, and thoroughbreds LOVE to run. They run all over even after retirement and as colts. That had every chance of happening even if he had never been on the horse racing circuit.
:yes
Barbaro was a highly trained and skilled athlete... That is what thoroughbreds do, they were born to race and run. They did what they could to save him. LOTS & LOTS of money!!!

My dd and I work at a horse rescue a couple times a month. Yes, a lot of these horses that come in are abused & mistreated but it is not from riding rodeo.. Every rodeoer I know, treats their horses better than family at times.

I have heard stories of retired rescued from the cannery race horses. You can not ring a bell anywhere near them because they will injure themselves. For example running through their pen door because it is been so ingrained, that when a bell rings they MUST run. Horses may be born to run and love running but not like that, the race horse business is cruel.

I have no problem with them at all.

Jenny, breeders breed, they purposely make more animals. Question for ya, about how many puppies would you say a professional breeder 'makes' in their entire career as a breeder? I KNOW breeders don't keep all the animals that are born. What exactly happens to all those animals that don't meet the 'standards'? Where do those animals go?

Sorry, this is threadjacking, and I know its a subject that has already been thoroughly debated.


I can tell you exactly where many the animals that breeders breed that don't make the standards go... I own 2 of them. They both were born to very good beeders who breed pure bred animals but each had a mixed litter unintentially. Most breeders still sell those puppies that are not show quality for a lower price. My havachon was born to someone who bred pure bred Havanese and Bred pure bred Bichon Frise... There was a litter that happened by accident and that's where Emmie came from (every puppy in her litter went to a good home, she was my neighbor, I watched every puppy go home with great people). My puppy Khloe is a "cairnoodle". She was born to a breeder (I know this breeder) who breeds Cairn Terriers and Miniature Poodles. There was an accident litter and they were all sold to families who wanted to love the puppies. I got Khloe because the woman who bought her realized she didn't have time for her and gave her to me for the cost of having her flown here.

Not all breeders are bad and not all of them breed to only have show quality dogs. They DO do it to make money but there are a lot of good breeders. Some day when I can afford to, I will get a pure bred Havanese from a good breeder, they are a fairly rare breed and I personally happy that there are people who breed them.

I love to go to Rodoes! If everything is done properly, no body gets hurt. Face it, if you love sports (baseballm basketball, ect) you run the risk of getting hurt. I think there is the extreme in both ways.

Definitely, I saw a show on that- and just look at Barbaro

also, dog racing is bad- those dogs have horrible lives unless they get rescued & rehabbed & fostered to a family

Barbaro was a fluke, race horses are xrayed before they go onto the track for any weaknesses that may be present. The owners, trainers etc. have way to much at stake to risk their horse being put down due to injury. Because of my background with both racing and rodeo I look at this picture entirely in a different light. You could only wish you were treated, pampered etc. like 90% of the race horses out there and you can tell me that it's a cruel sport all you want but when the odds of the horse being cared for extremely well are that high... you can't convince me of that. If you haven't ever been in the barns behind the scenes you don't know the whole picture. If all of your knowledge is based on what you have been told and what you assume I would say you need to further educate yourselves.

Mexican match racing is another story... the horses aren't as well cared for as a whole.

I love to go to Rodoes! If everything is done properly, no body gets hurt. Face it, if you love sports (baseballm basketball, ect) you run the risk of getting hurt. I think there is the extreme in both ways.

Yes, but with sports like basketbal all of the players willingly agree to play, no so with the Rodeo, I don't think the bull or bronco would agree it was all good fun.

No, I don't see them as cruel. What I think is cruel are the Mexican rodeos where they do horse tripping. Basically the cowboys are on horseback chasing a wild horse at full speed and they try to trip it.

You left out the wild horse race though goldi! I know a lot of people hate that one but I see more cowboys get injured at rodeos than animals.

I mentioned those later ;)

I have only been to 1 rodeo in my life. I left crying because on of the horses got hurt. I will never go to a rodeo again :no

No, I don't see them as cruel. What I think is cruel are the Mexican rodeos where they do horse tripping. Basically the cowboys are on horseback chasing a wild horse at full speed and they try to trip it.

You left out the wild horse race though goldi! I know a lot of people hate that one but I see more cowboys get injured at rodeos than animals.

:yes Totally agree. I just laugh at the animal nazis when they cry about it :lol but yet, they arent human activist? :thinking :lmao

Anyways.. NO. Its not cruel. Now the running of the bulls in Spain and what they do after... that is different.

For the record, I compete in barrel racing, team penning, calf roping, cutting, and used to do reigning until peppy's knees got bad. I have plenty of cowboy friends who participate in bull riding and bull fighting (they stand in the ring and run from the bull). So I'm going to stay at arm's length, but wanted to see what people thought. :)

:agree

I've been involved in rodeo far too long in my life to even get involved with this one. Interesting debate topic though.

Its like when people buy a cattle dog (I own 2 of them), and then get rid of it because it won't stop "nipping" at people's heels, or nips at their kids. Um HELLO, its in their NATURE to nip...they are bred to chase cattle! Uggg, I could so go off on my own little tangent about that.

Anyways...there are several events that I don't agree with in Rodeo's (such as calf roping, to me its just sad), but as a whole, I do enjoy going to rodeo's and I do enjoy watching the bull riding, among many other events. My DH's cousin is a champion barrel racer and its amazing to watch her compete in that! I've ridden her barrel racing horse before and he was just awesome.

Rodeo's are a way of life up here in Montana...you might as well move to a different state if you don't like them! :lol

I don't think all types of Rodeos are cruel and I don't think all circuses are cruel either, but I am generally against both because I think more times than not, the animals are neglected or abused in some shape or form. Not all, but many that are out there. So, generally speaking, I don't like them and don't support them. No, my kids will never go to a circus.

MAYBE bull riding and bronc riding MIGHT be considered cruelty because they strap then so they'll buck but it's just as cruel to the riders, sometimes more so... I would venture to say that more riders have died for "sport" than broncs or bulls. Those horses, bulls, cattle, goats, etc... are treated well because they are those people's livelihoods in most cases. That prize bull that gives those riders the most trouble is a cash cow for those owners and they will do whatever is necessary to keep him healthy and active. To think otherwise just isn't logical to me.

Seriously think about that, the rider KNOWS he could get hurt. Where did the bronco or the bull agree to being strapped to make them buck? How is that fun for them? I refuse to feel any sympathy for a bull or bronco rider that gets wounded. They KNEW the risk the animal that gets wounded does not.

Seriously think about that, the rider KNOWS he could get hurt. Where did the bronco or the bull agree to being strapped to make them buck? How is that fun for them? I refuse to feel any sympathy for a bull or bronco rider that gets wounded. They KNEW the risk the animal that gets wounded does not.

Exactly. It's the rider's CHOICE to get on the bull. The animals have absolutely NO choice whatsoever in rodeos. I don't think you can compare the bulls to the people who ride them.

:yes Totally agree. I just laugh at the animal nazis when they cry about it :lol but yet, they arent human activist? :thinking :lmao

Anyways.. NO. Its not cruel. Now the running of the bulls in Spain and what they do after... that is different.

Why if you speak up for animal rights are you a labeled a Nazi? Which is a pretty awful thing to just throw out there at someone even in a general way. (The Nazi's were awful and I cringe when ever people use that word in referance to anything other then the atrocites of WWII) Yet if you care for humans you are an activist?

For the record I care about humans, I just feel it is MORE important to speak up for those that have no voice such as children, & animals. Adults do some pretty awful things, children & animals just get hauled along for the ride. I don't think caring about them and wanting things to change for their benefit makes you a nazi.

Humans get hurt by animals because they do stupid things like ride a bull, bull fight, bronco riding for sport, dog fights, lion tamers, etc I don't feel sorry for people that KNOWINGLY put themselves in harms way.

Seriously think about that, the rider KNOWS he could get hurt. Where did the bronco or the bull agree to being strapped to make them buck? How is that fun for them? I refuse to feel any sympathy for a bull or bronco rider that gets wounded. They KNEW the risk the animal that gets wounded does not.

While I do like to watch bull riding, I also completely agree with your statement. I don't have much sympathy for bull riders when they get hurt because they made that choice to get on the bull knowing its going to buck.

Why if you speak up for animal rights are you a labeled a Nazi? Which is a pretty awful thing to just throw out there at someone even in a general way. (The Nazi's were awful and I cringe when ever people use that word in referance to anything other then the atrocites of WWII) Yet if you care for humans you are an activist?

For the record I care about humans, I just feel it is MORE important to speak up for those that have no voice such as children, & animals. Adults do some pretty awful things, children & animals just get hauled along for the ride. I don't think caring about them and wanting things to change for their benefit makes you a nazi.

Humans get hurt by animals because they do stupid things like ride a bull, bull fight, bronco riding for sport, dog fights, lion tamers, etc I don't feel sorry for people that KNOWINGLY put themselves in harms way.

Very good post. I probably don't have much more to add to the debate here but I just wanted to say I agree with you.

Personally, I think any event is cruel if it's going or meant to hurt the animal.

I'm not too familiar on rodeo events, but I know there is one where they shock the bulls testes to get them to react. I know there is a spanish event where they slaughter the bulls aswell.

I also think circuses are cruel too.. and I wont' visit them either.

As for the people that get hurt whilst participating in those types of events..well if they can hurt an animal, the animal can hurt them. Simple.

On a similar but sort of unrelated note brought up by Simmy's mentioned of shocking the bulls...


I worked at an auction barn for the veternarian that checked all the bulls and cows to make sure they are healthy before being sold (and if they weren't, they were rehabilitated before being sold), and the only way to get SOME of those cows and especially bulls to move down the chute was to use a cattle prod. You can't really get behind an animal of that side and say heaveho.

my brothers a bull rider..and growin up, if we could have afforded it then, i would have done the rope tying and barrels myself.. it's not cruelty, cause it doesn't hurt them, it' just pi$$e$ them off... the guys/gals get hurt worse than the animals..

All right! I'm an animal NAZI now, LOL, I love all the name calling, thats great.:sarcasm

In my 4 months of being vegan I've heard, hippie, tree hugger, etc. the nazi thing is a new one :lol.

Why if you speak up for animal rights are you a labeled a Nazi? Which is a pretty awful thing to just throw out there at someone even in a general way. (The Nazi's were awful and I cringe when ever people use that word in referance to anything other then the atrocites of WWII) Yet if you care for humans you are an activist?

For the record I care about humans, I just feel it is MORE important to speak up for those that have no voice such as children, & animals. Adults do some pretty awful things, children & animals just get hauled along for the ride. I don't think caring about them and wanting things to change for their benefit makes you a nazi.

Humans get hurt by animals because they do stupid things like ride a bull, bull fight, bronco riding for sport, dog fights, lion tamers, etc I don't feel sorry for people that KNOWINGLY put themselves in harms way.

All right! I'm an animal NAZI now, LOL, I love all the name calling, thats great.:sarcasm

In my 4 months of being vegan I've heard, hippie, tree hugger, etc. the nazi thing is a new one :lol.

:lmao Funny how I didnt name ANYONE on this board isnt it.
But I guess, if you feel it was about you, go ahead and claim it :wink

All right! I'm an animal NAZI now, LOL, I love all the name calling, thats great.:sarcasm

In my 4 months of being vegan I've heard, hippie, tree hugger, etc. the nazi thing is a new one :lol.

I find it "great" that you managed to make it all about YOU and your veganism.

:lmao Funny how I didnt name ANYONE on this board isnt it.
But I guess, if you feel it was about you, go ahead and claim it :wink

Well considering how I didn't take it as something directed AT me I just found fault with the way NAZI gets tossed around on forums. You didn't pick up on that though it's ok. :dunno

Then I clarified my post to explain why I feel the way I do about animal & childrens rights. I used my post to say more then one thing the first half was about your use of the term nazi, the second half was an explanation of my thoughts on the whole matter. (the matter being why I care more about children and animals then adults)

i agree. plus the "rodeo industry" has many great opportunities for youth and everything and college scholarships ESPECIALLY in the south.

I said I wouldn't get involved, but oh well, I'm going to.

This is so true, especially in Texas. The Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, in Houston, Texas (One of the biggest rodeos in the World) provides MILLIONS in scholarship and provides excellent opportunities for youth. It also stimulates the economy of Houston and surrounding areas. I'm a proud member of the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo Committee and have been around the rodeo system since I was very young.

The livestock that participate in rodeo events are owned by stock contractors. These contractors make profit off these animals and are not willing to let their profit get seriously injured. In instances such as team roping and calf roping these are day to day events that would happen on a ranch in the regular maintaining of cattle.

Also, I know in Houston, the average bucking bronc or bull works for an average of five minutes in the arena. Keep in mind, a bull rider only rides a bull for 8 seconds. Also, rodeo stock injuries in the rodeos I am involved in are EXTREMELY rare. Last rodeo season I can't even recall an animal being injured.

I'm not sure if this argument has risen in this debate topic or not, but as far as the transportation of these animals go, as far as horses, most avid horse owners I know own AIR CONDITIONED horse trailers, hell, some of them are nicer than the Fema trailer I lived in back in high school.

Anyway, this was kind of pointless I suppose since most of the commotion has moved on to other topics, but I just thought I'd show my support through the rodeo system, which has done me a lot of good growing up. :)

Thank you for providing your input!! :thumbsup

Well I am in late on this one too! :lol

While I don't think tying a rope to a bull's testicle and pulling is exactly nice, I enjoyed the rodeo championship in Las Vegas when I turned 21. I don't watch it on a regular basis though.

I find it "great" that you managed to make it all about YOU and your veganism.

Yea Tawny, I think the world revolves around me all the time :rolleyes

The term animal Nazi was given to ALL animal activists as a generalization was it not? Therefore, because I personally am an animal rights activitst, wasn't this term then in turn given to me and anyone else that is an animal rights activist? That is why I responded in the first person, because I am part of the group that was being generalized.

So are you just going around to all these threads now and quoting me or something??

You quoted me and I responded. All the threads you are speaking of happen to be the same ones I am involved in heavily, and several of your responses have been directly related to me, so of course I will defend myself.

K.

I'm not personally aiming this towards anyone, however, not just with this thread but all other animal-related topics that have gotten so heated in the past few days.. if you feel so hostile and against the issues at hand (Eating meat, rodeoing), or if you feel so strongly FOR them, let us please stick to defending our sides of the issue instead of getting so disgruntle with each other!

I have owned livestock (both horses and cattle) all of my life, and used to rodeo also. My livestock has ALWAYS been treated better than the humans in my life! I don't care how tired, sick, or whatever I am....my livestock gets fed before I do! Everyone I know treats their animals with nothing but compassion and respect. I have never seen an animal treated cruelly at a rodeo event, and I've been to way too many rodeos to count. Are there rodeos out there who treat their livestock badly? Probably. There's always a "bad apple" in the bunch. However, you can't condem every single rodeo because of the few bad apples. Do you condem the whole human race because there are a few people who go off and kill other innocent humans? You say that humans know what they're doing...this is true. But the innocent people they KILL didn't know. Therefore, logic says it's the same basic thing.