PICTURES ARE GRAPHIC

























***Pics may be too much for yall but it's the truth***

Ok since that stupid lady came up to me (read post in Vent), I have been seeing red and have gotten up on my soapbox. So here I go:
Did you know that the grain that is used to feed cattle could wipe out global hunger?
Did you know that in every package of chicken there is a little poop :poop in it?
Did you know that a vegetarian diet reverses heart disease?
Did you know that eating meat can cause impotence?

This is how they transport the pigs for you to eat:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e317/Crystal520/pig20.jpg

This is what the chickens go through so you can have your eggs and a chicken sandwhich:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e317/Crystal520/chicken20.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e317/Crystal520/chicken04.jpg

Look at this poor cow and guess what...they are still going to use that meat:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e317/Crystal520/cow14.jpg

This is violence we can STOP!!! No animal deserves to die for your tastebuds! When animals feel pain, they scream!!!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e317/Crystal520/15280675_l.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e317/Crystal520/15280710_l.jpg

www.GoVeg.com

thanks for letting me look at that :pukey that won't change my opinion on eating meat or having dairy or eggs. i kind of wish there was a disclaimer saying you had those pics up

thanks for letting me look at that :pukey that won't change my opinion on eating meat or having dairy or eggs. i kind of wish there was a disclaimer saying you had those pics up

well said-I didn't like that very much:oogle

Not to mention half of the water in America goes to animals being raised for slaughter.

I admire those who stand firm in their beliefs but it frusterates me to no end if someone tries to force them down on me. When I smoked people would show me pictures of a smokers lung. And yes I still did it. ;)

I am a meat eater. Plain and simple. And I have no need to defend myself for being a meat eater. The iron you get from meat is great. Their are many benefits just as there are many benefits from veggies and the like. I know firmly well where my food comes from. I am against hunting just for the sport of it and not doing anything with the corpse. But I am for it when people use that for food and what not. Just as someone else may believe in hunting just for sport.

As I said. I admire those who are firm in their beliefs. And like I say in most things..Its about choice. Whats right for you may not be right for someone else. Its all about whats right for you. And thats great that that is right for you.

My animals on my farm that I eat DO NOT look that that. My grandfather has been a farmer for 60 years, and he's NEVER let his animals get sick like that.

For you to assume that all people who raise animals for food treat them like that is as closed minded and bigoted as referring to people of color by using the N-word.

I've been around livestock my whole life and been to plenty of livestock auctions and shipping centers. HAVE YOU????????

Also, we aren't physically created to consume meat.

But you should have a warning or disclaimer for the pics.

Ok.. I'm not knocking being a vegetarian.. since I have been one most of my life... but things like this is what makes people annoyed by vegetarians. It's like saying they are WRONG for eating meat... It might be your opinion but it's not how they feel. It just the same as you, you don't like being given shit for being a vegetarian, ya know?

What pisses me off though is people see these pics and are like "Ewww gross" or "Awww..that poor animal" yet they still go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac........my point is you should see what you are really eating!!

i am completely supportive of vegetarianism but...

how is the message in this post any different than that of the woman at the grocery store?

Also, we aren't physically created to consume meat.

But you should have a warning or disclaimer for the pics.

Exactly......we are programed as a society to eat meat.....we don't need it and it's bad for your body. Look at the stats people!

I'm sure not all places are like that... sure some are there are a lot of farms around the world but not all. I love my meat and if organic meat wasn't so expensive I would buy that more often. Animals eat meat too are you going to get upset about them eating each other. :shrug You can get a lot of good things from meat the main thing I don't like is all the crap people but in their meat to make them grow faster. I'm not going to make you change your mind and I'm not trying to. :) But I will not stop eating meat I love it too much. :hungry

My animals on my farm that I eat DO NOT look that that. My grandfather has been a farmer for 60 years, and he's NEVER let his animals get sick like that.

For you to assume that all people who raise animals for food treat them like that is as closed minded and bigoted as referring to people of color by using the N-word.

I've been around livestock my whole life and been to plenty of livestock auctions and shipping centers. HAVE YOU????????

Honey, I used to live in farm central.....I have seen many things.

What pisses me off though is people see these pics and are like "Ewww gross" or "Awww..that poor animal" yet they still go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac........my point is you should see what you are really eating!!


The thing is.. that is not the norm.. as mich as you would like to think it is.. it isn't. Those are pictures that extreme activists like to put out there to scare people into thier beliefs ;) They know there are enough nieve people to believe that's how ALL animals being raised for food are treated.

I admire those who stand firm in their beliefs but it frusterates me to no end if someone tries to force them down on me. When I smoked people would show me pictures of a smokers lung. And yes I still did it. ;)

I am a meat eater. Plain and simple. And I have no need to defend myself for being a meat eater. The iron you get from meat is great. Their are many benefits just as there are many benefits from veggies and the like. I know firmly well where my food comes from. I am against hunting just for the sport of it and not doing anything with the corpse. But I am for it when people use that for food and what not. Just as someone else may believe in hunting just for sport.

As I said. I admire those who are firm in their beliefs. And like I say in most things..Its about choice. Whats right for you may not be right for someone else. Its all about whats right for you. And thats great that that is right for you.

Very well said- I dont see you attacking animals for eating other animals - its a part of the food chain and we are at top - this is why animals were put here to be used for food and clothing- but I agree I have my beliefs, you have yours I will respect yours if you respect mine!!!

I'm sure not all places are like that... sure some are there are a lot of farms around the world but not all. I love my meat and if organic meat wasn't so expensive I would buy that more often. Animals eat meat too are you going to get upset about them eating each other. :shrug You can get a lot of good things from meat the main thing I don't like is all the crap people but in their meat to make them grow faster. I'm not going to make you change your mind and I'm not trying to. :) But I will not stop eating meat I love it too much. :hungry

Can I ask why you love meat?

Ok, have you seen the animal police on tv? Those are extreme cases, just like your pictures. Are you saying people shouldn't have pets? Because I have seen a lot of those pets look worse than your pictures.

Exactly......we are programed as a society to eat meat.....we don't need it and it's bad for your body. Look at the stats people!


the reason I started eating a little bit of meat again is because I am always anemic.. and I would much rather eat a little bit of meat and fish than be taking pills for it.

Very well said- I dont see you attacking animals for eating other animals - its a part of the food chain and we are at top - this is why animals were put here to be used for food and clothing- but I agree I have my beliefs, you have yours I will respect yours if you respect mine!!!

Whoa....animals were put here for food and clothing.....so your dog or cat is supposed to be for food or clothing???? :confused

What pisses me off though is people see these pics and are like "Ewww gross" or "Awww..that poor animal" yet they still go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac........my point is you should see what you are really eating!!

Then I guess you should just remain pissed off. Because it will continue to happen. I dunno how you can think that people who consume meat do not know where it comes from. I think most who consumes meat knows it comes from an animal that is slaughtered. Your pics are likely off a vegan or vegetarian site and that doesnt hold up in my book. On that same not I can find you the same amount of pics of animals humanly killed for meat consumption more then likely. Its no different then debating vaccines, circumsizing, religion, etc etc etc. To debate it is great. To force it on someone is where they will shake their head and just walk away. You cant get your point across that way. I know for me, when someone tries to ram it down my throat, I just roll my eyes and walk away. I am all for listening to peoples thoughts on why or how or why they belive this, that or the other. And trust me..I do listen. But when someone comes at me and says "its this way and has to be this way. your wrong if you dont do it this way etc" its that point I will just walk away

I'm sure not all places are like that... sure some are there are a lot of farms around the world but not all. I love my meat and if organic meat wasn't so expensive I would buy that more often. Animals eat meat too are you going to get upset about them eating each other. :shrug You can get a lot of good things from meat the main thing I don't like is all the crap people but in their meat to make them grow faster. I'm not going to make you change your mind and I'm not trying to. :) But I will not stop eating meat I love it too much. :hungry

If more people bought organic free range foods then the price would go down, supply and demand. The big slaughter houses in America tend to be like this from the various exposes done on them.

Fast food Nation is a VERY good read for an inside look at slaughter houses.

Can I ask why you love meat?

i can answer this question for me personally: i like how it tastes i like the texture, etc. for me personally that's why i like meat

Ok, have you seen the animal police on tv? Those are extreme cases, just like your pictures. Are you saying people shouldn't have pets? Because I have seen a lot of those pets look worse than your pictures.

I am totally against any form of animal cruelty!! I wish the screening process for adopting animals was much more strict.

I just can't fathom sitting there eating a hamburger knowing that it's throat was slit so I can indulge my tastebuds for something my body doesn't really need.....it's ridiculous.

Can I ask why you love meat?

Cuz the way it tastes. :) Please don't try to make me change my mind I shouldn't have to explain why I like to eat meat to you. I do not want to debate what I like and why I like it... your not going to change my mind. I love dessert too you know why... cuz that also tastes yummy. :hungry I'm done here though cuz really I don't see why you are trying to make us meat eaters change our minds when you don't like it when other people put down you NOT eating meat. :shrug :hi Bye I'm done :D

Edit: Plants are living things too but for some reason it doesn't bother people to kill them. How do you know they don't feel pain just like animals and people. :shrug

Crystal, I don't understand how you think it's wrong of that woman in a grocery store to say what she did to you, but you can throw crap like that in our faces.

It's hypocritical, and it's bigoted.

I just can't fathom sitting there eating a hamburger knowing that it's throat was slit so I can indulge my tastebuds for something my body doesn't really need.....it's ridiculous.

So then dont do it. But dont look down on someone who does. Whats right for you may not be for someone else...And dont try to force your thoughts ons omeone with "shock value" photos. That doesnt really get the point across ya know?

I am totally against any form of animal cruelty!! I wish the screening process for adopting animals was much more strict.

Ok, so are you saying the fact that my dad hunts most of the meals he eats is animal cruelty? I agree with the screening process. I am an animal lover too, but man has been eating meat since the beginning of time and I don't believe its wrong.

I always tell dh when we have this argument that if I could be sure that meat was coming from smaller scaled farms, family owned, with quality and well-being of the animals ranked equally with profits, than I might have a different view on the meat industry as a whole. I have respect for farmers, like my BIL and his family, who have farmed for generations, raised livestock, and provided food for the local community in a high quality, ethical fashion. But when you buy meat at a chain grocery store, what are the chances that the meat came from a respectable farm like theirs?

As I usually am prone to say in the debate arena - I know I don't know enough. I am always open to more information. But what I do know is enough, for me, to be sure that today's meat industry is a travesty.

And just a side note... I wish people would stop comparing every difference in opinion to being a racial bigot, aka racist no matter how you define it. It's just not an apples to oranges comparison, and it's disrespectful. What you choose to do for a living is no comparison to how you are born, and the social impact that your race carries with it, regardless of choice. It's just not comparable.

Crystal, I don't understand how you think it's wrong of that woman in a grocery store to say what she did to you, but you can throw crap like that in our faces.

It's hypocritical, and it's bigoted.

I was thinking the same thing. Especially when she said this: Ok since that stupid lady came up to me (read post in Vent), I have been seeing red and have gotten up on my soapbox.

Well, I don't personally eat meat because I can't eat something knowing that it was at one point an animal and probably raised just for slaughter. But you have to respect other people's choices. These pictures aren't going to change anyone's mind, ya know?

Crystal, I don't understand how you think it's wrong of that woman in a grocery store to say what she did to you, but you can throw crap like that in our faces.

It's hypocritical, and it's bigoted.

Geez....I'm sorry that I just wanted to get this off my chest! Do you know how many times I had to bite my tongue becaue someone put me down for not liking meat!!!!!???? Even when DH and I were planning our reception....I had to explain why I didn't want their meat lasgna........it's sooooo frustrating!!!!

Geez....I'm sorry that I just wanted to get this off my chest! Do you know how many times I had to bite my tongue becaue someone put me down for not liking meat!!!!!???? Even when DH and I were planning our reception....I had to explain why I didn't want their meat lasgna........it's sooooo frustrating!!!!

Well, you put in debates.. :shrug

Well, I don't personally eat meat because I can't eat something knowing that it was at one point an animal and probably raised just for slaughter. But you have to respect other people's choices. These pictures aren't going to change anyone's mind, ya know?

I know....I just wanted people to open their eyes and really take a look at what they are eating.....I know I won't change their minds, but ya never know what a little education might bring.

Geez....I'm sorry that I just wanted to get this off my chest! Do you know how many times I had to bite my tongue becaue someone put me down for not liking meat!!!!!???? Even when DH and I were planning our reception....I had to explain why I didn't want their meat lasgna........it's sooooo frustrating!!!!

getting it off your chest is 1 thing. But isnt this "debate" no better then that what you are so upset about? Your asking people to explain to you why they are meat eaters. How is that any different??

I also admire those who stand firm in their beliefs - and despise those who find it pertinent to ram those beliefs down the throats of others. But, like you, I hate it when people give me crap about being an omnivore.

But, before I take off the gloves, let's be rational. The grains you speak of aren't fit for human consumption - these are the grains that are too low of a quality to be found fit for human consumption. It wouldn't solve the worlds' hunger problem, it would bring about millions of counts of food poisoning.

Did you know that in EVERY food, there's a little poop in that, too? Fertilizer, anyone?

Did you know that eating ANYTHING will eventually kill you, including eating nothing. Sorry, but death awaits every one of us, regardless of what we consume.

The impotence thing is irrelevant, since I can flip through 15 different channels right now and hear a "groundbreaking" research institute that has a pill that cures that.

Now, let's go about finding out how many insects, mice, snakes and other little farm critters are brutally murdered by farmers who harvest the grains to make this "healthy" food. Don't THOSE guys have feelings? How about the plants themselves? They breathe, have chlorophyll for blood and consume just like every other living thing on the planet... Can I get a "Save the Crabgrass" campaign?

Well, you put in debates.. :shrug

I know because I knew that where it was probably going to end up and I'm totally fine with that. So let's say it was a little bit of a vent and a little bit of a debate shall we?:wink

Sad, yet so gross to see the pics!

I was a vegetarian for a few years, but reverted back to eating meat. I'm not going to lie - I love steak and chicken, and while it does hurt me that SOME of the animals that we use for our food are treated in such a terrible way, not all of them are.

I get sad every time I see the cattle truck drive by with all the live cows in it, knowing that they are on their way to be slaughtered...It pains me greatly. But, since we are the dominant species on this planet, and we have to eat, what are you to do, ya know?

No matter how you look at it, the animal is going to have to be killed in some way for human consumption.

Whoa....animals were put here for food and clothing.....so your dog or cat is supposed to be for food or clothing???? :confused

other countries do WE HAVE DOMESTICATED THEM!!! and to be quite honest if i was caught in a avalanche with my family and grunt (my adorable, loving boxer) and days went by it it came down to eating himor my kids starving to death you better bet my family would be eating grunt!!!!

I also admire those who stand firm in their beliefs - and despise those who find it pertinent to ram those beliefs down the throats of others. But, like you, I hate it when people give me crap about being an omnivore.

But, before I take off the gloves, let's be rational. The grains you speak of aren't fit for human consumption - these are the grains that are too low of a quality to be found fit for human consumption. It wouldn't solve the worlds' hunger problem, it would bring about millions of counts of food poisoning.

Did you know that in EVERY food, there's a little poop in that, too? Fertilizer, anyone?

Did you know that eating ANYTHING will eventually kill you, including eating nothing. Sorry, but death awaits every one of us, regardless of what we consume.

The impotence thing is irrelevant, since I can flip through 15 different channels right now and hear a "groundbreaking" research institute that has a pill that cures that.

Now, let's go about finding out how many insects, mice, snakes and other little farm critters are brutally murdered by farmers who harvest the grains to make this "healthy" food. Don't THOSE guys have feelings? How about the plants themselves? They breathe, have chlorophyll for blood and consume just like every other living thing on the planet... Can I get a "Save the Crabgrass" campaign?


AMEN!!

getting it off your chest is 1 thing. But isnt this "debate" no better then that what you are so upset about? Your asking people to explain to you why they are meat eaters. How is that any different??

I just asked a simple question of why you like meat.....I was just curious.

I also admire those who stand firm in their beliefs - and despise those who find it pertinent to ram those beliefs down the throats of others. But, like you, I hate it when people give me crap about being an omnivore.

But, before I take off the gloves, let's be rational. The grains you speak of aren't fit for human consumption - these are the grains that are too low of a quality to be found fit for human consumption. It wouldn't solve the worlds' hunger problem, it would bring about millions of counts of food poisoning.

Did you know that in EVERY food, there's a little poop in that, too? Fertilizer, anyone?

Did you know that eating ANYTHING will eventually kill you, including eating nothing. Sorry, but death awaits every one of us, regardless of what we consume.

The impotence thing is irrelevant, since I can flip through 15 different channels right now and hear a "groundbreaking" research institute that has a pill that cures that.

Now, let's go about finding out how many insects, mice, snakes and other little farm critters are brutally murdered by farmers who harvest the grains to make this "healthy" food. Don't THOSE guys have feelings? How about the plants themselves? They breathe, have chlorophyll for blood and consume just like every other living thing on the planet... Can I get a "Save the Crabgrass" campaign?

I know I said I wouldn't post anymore but I just had to say that I'm glad your here cuz I just LOVE reading your posts. :D Your so good at debating and it's interesting to read all the information you type down. :)

Anyway, let's finish this tomorrow....I gotta go to work in 6 hours! Let's see.....that's maybe 5 hours of sleep. Goodnight everyone!!! I hope I didn't make anyone upset....just being on my soapbox.

I think that this post is quite different than the lady in the grocery store. She posted an opinion (yes, with gross pics, but there is a warning above, but maybe I missed that it was an edit or something) in a debate form among acquaintances. And we're choosing to read and respond. That woman was a complete stranger at a grocery store, being nosy about her purchases and making assumptions (albeit correct ones) and then lecturing a perfect stranger.

I don't see how it's the same thing? :shrug

They are both strong views about a highly debated topic, and in a very confrontational nature. But one has it's place and one doesn't, kwim?

I'm not angry at all. I am just debating. Just trying to raise good points and WIN!!!!! Muahahaha!!!!!

nah I would say its the same thing the warning (not a friendly warning) was on the inside after you already see the pics - and there was attacking going on not just a opinion

I know....I just wanted people to open their eyes and really take a look at what they are eating.....I know I won't change their minds, but ya never know what a little education might bring.

But with the way you went about it it was purely for shock factor. And I don't think that too many people will be appreciative for that. You complained that someone didn't accept that you are a vegetarian. Yet (as others said before me)_ you do exactly the same thing with this post. I didn't even finish reading your OP because of the way it was worded etc. By shoving your opinion on me I am (as are many others I am sure) very likely to turn away and not even start to listen to you. There is a difference in factual education and shock value

Those photos are propaganda. The photos are from establishments that were fined and/or shut down already.

We're higher on the food chain for a reason. I was raised on a farm-and i can tell you-cows are the dumbest animal alive. Period.

I did teach one of our pigs to fetch, though. :giggle

Shock Value advertising doesn't work. There's a reason why the anti-abortion commercial that showed dead fetuses at varying ages was taken off the air by the very community that spawned the idea for it in the first place: It's crude. It's not education, it's a means of putting uncomfortable images in peoples' faces to "make a point". I can make my point without ever -EVER- calling on a single image. I, for one, did find the wording that accompanied the images more offensive than the images. Instead of "enlightening" me to the plight of the animal-savers, all I saw was "YOU ARE A CRUEL HUMAN BEING."

Regardless, this debate is going to remain as polarized as it was before it was posted. Some people do, some don't. But, if blame and fingers are aimed at me, I'm quite competent in my research, coming from "farming country" myself.

Dogs and cats as food? Us country folk know that those animals are TOOLS, not pets. Dogs alert the owners to wolves, foxes and other livestock-threatening creatures, shepherds and hunters. Cats keep rats and mice out of the GRAIN SILOS, as well as other little vermin. Spiders keep the insects from laying eggs in the products.. It's a cycle, and in it, something dies.

Debate FACT, not preferences.

But with the way you went about it it was purely for shock factor. And I don't think that too many people will be appreciative for that. You complained that someone didn't accept that you are a vegetarian. Yet (as others said before me)_ you do exactly the same thing with this post. I didn't even finish reading your OP because of the way it was worded etc. By shoving your opinion on me I am (as are many others I am sure) very likely to turn away and not even start to listen to you. There is a difference in factual education and shock value

Yup. #1 reason vegetarians are disliked is organizations like PETA that use shock value and old photos to "get the word out". If you have to resort to grossing people out...you might want to ask yourself, is it worth saying?

I have vegetarians in my family, and I respect them and their eating habits. I do not respect that kind of argument, though.

Shock Value advertising doesn't work. There's a reason why the anti-abortion commercial that showed dead fetuses at varying ages was taken off the air by the very community that spawned the idea for it in the first place: It's crude. It's not education, it's a means of putting uncomfortable images in peoples' faces to "make a point". I can make my point without ever -EVER- calling on a single image. I, for one, did find the wording that accompanied the images more offensive than the images. Instead of "enlightening" me to the plight of the animal-savers, all I saw was "YOU ARE A CRUEL HUMAN BEING."

Regardless, this debate is going to remain as polarized as it was before it was posted. Some people do, some don't. But, if blame and fingers are aimed at me, I'm quite competent in my research, coming from "farming country" myself.

Dogs and cats as food? Us country folk know that those animals are TOOLS, not pets. Dogs alert the owners to wolves, foxes and other livestock-threatening creatures, shepherds and hunters. Cats keep rats and mice out of the GRAIN SILOS, as well as other little vermin. Spiders keep the insects from laying eggs in the products.. It's a cycle, and in it, something dies.

Debate FACT, not preferences.

Oh you are so good!!!

Shock Value advertising doesn't work. There's a reason why the anti-abortion commercial that showed dead fetuses at varying ages was taken off the air by the very community that spawned the idea for it in the first place: It's crude. It's not education, it's a means of putting uncomfortable images in peoples' faces to "make a point". I can make my point without ever -EVER- calling on a single image. I, for one, did find the wording that accompanied the images more offensive than the images. Instead of "enlightening" me to the plight of the animal-savers, all I saw was "YOU ARE A CRUEL HUMAN BEING."

Regardless, this debate is going to remain as polarized as it was before it was posted. Some people do, some don't. But, if blame and fingers are aimed at me, I'm quite competent in my research, coming from "farming country" myself.

Dogs and cats as food? Us country folk know that those animals are TOOLS, not pets. Dogs alert the owners to wolves, foxes and other livestock-threatening creatures, shepherds and hunters. Cats keep rats and mice out of the GRAIN SILOS, as well as other little vermin. Spiders keep the insects from laying eggs in the products.. It's a cycle, and in it, something dies.

Debate FACT, not preferences.

AMEN - your awesome!!

I don't think shock value is a viable means to educate people, but I do think that it has often worked as a prompt to get people to educate themselves.

Being a product of Catholic schools, having to watch videos of aborted babies being sucked through clear plastic tubes shocked me into learning more, and I'm still pro-life to this day. (Not trying to start a new debate... just giving a personal example of shock value doing some good for a cause. Not interested at this point in whether or not anyone agrees with that cause).

And as a young adult, photographs were the main reason I started researching things like which cosmetic companies that didn't test on animals, etc. The shocking photos fueled my own search for information.

I think there are better ways to go about educating people, and there are definitely better ways to go about debating an issue you are passionate about, but photos, etc. can spur some people to find out more, and make their own decision.

I know I said I wouldn't post anymore but I just had to say that I'm glad your here cuz I just LOVE reading your posts. :D Your so good at debating and it's interesting to read all the information you type down. :)

Always happy to spread a little hate.. :)

Always happy to spread a little hate.. :)

Always happy to read your spread of hate ;) :giggle

I don't think shock value is a viable means to educate people, but I do think that it has often worked as a prompt to get people to educate themselves.

Being a product of Catholic schools, having to watch videos of aborted babies being sucked through clear plastic tubes shocked me into learning more, and I'm still pro-life to this day. (Not trying to start a new debate... just giving a personal example of shock value doing some good for a cause. Not interested at this point in whether or not anyone agrees with that cause).

And as a young adult, photographs were the main reason I started researching things like which cosmetic companies that didn't test on animals, etc. The shocking photos fueled my own search for information.

I think there are better ways to go about educating people, and there are definitely better ways to go about debating an issue you are passionate about, but photos, etc. can spur some people to find out more, and make their own decision.

I personally believe that words are exponentially more enlightening than an image. A picture gives you a simple snapshot in time without the ability to devulge the conscience of the subject. In words, we can paint the same picture AND include the human-nature element - our thoughts. If you'd like a demonstration, I'll gladly oblige :)

Whoa....animals were put here for food and clothing.....so your dog or cat is supposed to be for food or clothing???? :confused

I don't see the logic in your statement. All animals on the earth, or nearly all, so far as I know, have predators who eat them. Therefore, logically we can assume that part of their purpose is to be food. And humans, being warmblooded and not covered in fur, have needed clothing to wear. Back in the days of the Indians and many other people, a major source of this clothing was leather. Indians would hunt buffalo and use all of the parts of the buffalo bodies for their needs. They did not just hunt for the hell of it, and they did not hunt domestic pets, because there were none then. And the Indians are only one example of this. (Insert Native American if you'd like- don't bother attacking my non-PC term- it isn't the point of this)

Nowadays, often there are inhumane conditions for animals who are going to slaughter, and instead of focusing on getting people to stop eating meat by showing gruesome picture, I think it would be a lot more effective to lobby for more humane conditions and less waste. People eat meat. Humans invented many tools and many methods for hunting animals, and therefore, we eat them.

I too, tried to be a vegetarian. It did not work for my body. I eat meat because it keeps me from being emaciated and my iron levels from dipping too low. I would rather simply eat meat, which humans have been doing for quite a while now, than to eat soy stuff and take supplements. If you have a problem with this (you, general you, as all of this is), then too damned bad.

Shock Value advertising doesn't work. There's a reason why the anti-abortion commercial that showed dead fetuses at varying ages was taken off the air by the very community that spawned the idea for it in the first place: It's crude. It's not education, it's a means of putting uncomfortable images in peoples' faces to "make a point". I can make my point without ever -EVER- calling on a single image. I, for one, did find the wording that accompanied the images more offensive than the images. Instead of "enlightening" me to the plight of the animal-savers, all I saw was "YOU ARE A CRUEL HUMAN BEING."

Regardless, this debate is going to remain as polarized as it was before it was posted. Some people do, some don't. But, if blame and fingers are aimed at me, I'm quite competent in my research, coming from "farming country" myself.

Dogs and cats as food? Us country folk know that those animals are TOOLS, not pets. Dogs alert the owners to wolves, foxes and other livestock-threatening creatures, shepherds and hunters. Cats keep rats and mice out of the GRAIN SILOS, as well as other little vermin. Spiders keep the insects from laying eggs in the products.. It's a cycle, and in it, something dies.

Debate FACT, not preferences.

I personally believe that words are exponentially more enlightening than an image. A picture gives you a simple snapshot in time without the ability to devulge the conscience of the subject. In words, we can paint the same picture AND include the human-nature element - our thoughts. If you'd like a demonstration, I'll gladly oblige :)

Ok, trying my best to not sound like a smart ass, seriously. I don't want this to sound like it has a 'tone' because it doesn't.

I don't think I was clear enough about the fact that I agree that words are a much better vehicle for a message, especially when trying to educate. I was simply stating that I think visual images can have an impact, which can motivate a person to learn more. BUT, I don't think photos themselves are enough to form an enlightened opinion.

I remember from way back when that you are an excellent debater, and I know that I am definitely not! So I don't want to get in over my head! :P

Ok, trying my best to not sound like a smart ass, seriously. I don't want this to sound like it has a 'tone' because it doesn't.

I don't think I was clear enough about the fact that I agree that words are a much better vehicle for a message, especially when trying to educate. I was simply stating that I think visual images can have an impact, which can motivate a person to learn more. BUT, I don't think photos themselves are enough to form an enlightened opinion.

I remember from way back when that you are an excellent debater, and I know that I am definitely not! So I don't want to get in over my head! :P

There is no reason at all to worry about me "attacking" anyone here! I've actually only "attacked" one person, and he's no longer on the boards. I will debate my point just as passionately as you debate yours - and no more. And apparently, there's no debate between us - words are the perfect vessel for education! Now, I do concur with your statement of seeking higher education on a topic because of some exposure to a media.

I even just recently spent about a week researching the Chernobyl incident because of a video game (Thanks for turning me on to S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Jason!). It's absolutely fascinating to me, while the Three Mile Island incident just doesn't appeal to me. I have no idea why the two instances, which are relatively similar, are so polarized. So I completely understand your statement, and it's a valid argument - media, properly dosed.

I really hope you guys don't stop debating when I show up... I just hope to show folks the opposing views! I usually don't even agree with what I'm debating for!

I LOVE MY MEAT! And one of my favorite things to do is go fishing and deer hunting. You dont like it, I dont care.

I admire those who stand firm in their beliefs but it frusterates me to no end if someone tries to force them down on me. When I smoked people would show me pictures of a smokers lung. And yes I still did it. ;)

I am a meat eater. Plain and simple. And I have no need to defend myself for being a meat eater. The iron you get from meat is great. Their are many benefits just as there are many benefits from veggies and the like. I know firmly well where my food comes from. I am against hunting just for the sport of it and not doing anything with the corpse. But I am for it when people use that for food and what not. Just as someone else may believe in hunting just for sport.

As I said. I admire those who are firm in their beliefs. And like I say in most things..Its about choice. Whats right for you may not be right for someone else. Its all about whats right for you. And thats great that that is right for you.

This is well said. I could not (and would not) have said it as nice as this.

What I dont understand is why you said you were upset the people dont like your reasons for not eating meat, but then you start this thread, and pretty much do the same thing other people have done to you.

People have choices in life, and this is one of them. I will always eat meat, I will always go hunting, and fishing, thats what I love. I learned how to shoot and deer and skin it by the age of 10. Im not ashamed of it, nor will I feel bad for it.

Its my right.

Originally Posted by sage
Also, we aren't physically created to consume meat.


I have always learned in biology and other classes that part of what makes humans unique is that our teeth are specifically designed (if you will) to eat both meat and veggies. So I guess I do not see how anyone can say that we are not supposed to eat meat, when our mouths are made for it. :shrug

There is exisiting research that will support both sides of that, which is usually the case in any debate. For example, people believing that being gay is something you "choose" to become when there are an increasing amount of studies being done to prove otherwise. If you search this topic I guarantee you will find research and science to back your argument, as I can mine. If I had the time, I would. But this thread is a little pointless.

I just feel healthier being a vegetarian. I'd rather not have meat rotting in my colon. I don't really need to have anything to support that, it's my choice and part of my lifestyle. I would never attack anyone or make anyone feel badly for eating meat. I understand that some physically cannot handle a diet that doesn't contain meat (but this is only because you have been eating it for so long). My husband eats it, and I prepare it for him. I don't force my views onto him. We can respect each other's choices. Thankfully, I can handle that type of diet, and I choose to be a vegetarian.

I love meat, I've been told to eat red meat more often due to anemia. I don't understand why people oppose it, but live your life and i will live mine. I hate when vegetarians try to "educate" poor meat eaters.
What other purpose does a chicken serve? Are they the true messengers of world peace?!

I also thought that this post was very much like her vent...She did the same thing here as the lady in the store...

Why do people who go against the norm always have to use the "soapbox" because most of the world doesnt agree with them.

Plants are alive, but its ok to eat them right?

People will do what they want...I work with animals and I love meat, so i guess im a hypocrite to you?

I dont care what people eat, its their choice, and if you dont like people saying things to you, then dont come on here with some propoganda pics and getting on a "soapbox".

I admire those who stand firm in their beliefs but it frusterates me to no end if someone tries to force them down on me. When I smoked people would show me pictures of a smokers lung. And yes I still did it. ;)

I am a meat eater. Plain and simple. And I have no need to defend myself for being a meat eater. The iron you get from meat is great. Their are many benefits just as there are many benefits from veggies and the like. I know firmly well where my food comes from. I am against hunting just for the sport of it and not doing anything with the corpse. But I am for it when people use that for food and what not. Just as someone else may believe in hunting just for sport.

As I said. I admire those who are firm in their beliefs. And like I say in most things..Its about choice. Whats right for you may not be right for someone else. Its all about whats right for you. And thats great that that is right for you.

:thumbsup

Ok.. I'm not knocking being a vegetarian.. since I have been one most of my life... but things like this is what makes people annoyed by vegetarians. It's like saying they are WRONG for eating meat... It might be your opinion but it's not how they feel. It just the same as you, you don't like being given shit for being a vegetarian, ya know?

Absolutely. Infuriates me.

What pisses me off though is people see these pics and are like "Ewww gross" or "Awww..that poor animal" yet they still go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac........my point is you should see what you are really eating!!

I know what I'm eating, I grew up on farms.

Exactly......we are programed as a society to eat meat.....we don't need it and it's bad for your body. Look at the stats people!

No we're not programmed by a society to eat meat. Humans have been eating meat forever. We were "hunter/gatherers" before we were ever a "society". YOU look at our human past.

Can I ask why you love meat?

My first answer is that I am anemic and so red meat (beef) replenishes my iron more than those "iron supplements" can without making me feel shaky and sick. Also, deer meat is lean and is VERY beneficial. Deer meat doesn't have a lot of the addititives that beef has, at least not the deer meat I eat since I eat hunted deer. Chicken has protein that I need to build muscle and keep strong bones. Turkey just tastes really good.

I am an omnivore, just like a bear. There are predators in the wild that eat animals, are they cruel? I'M not the one slaughtering the animals in the manner depicted in your images, and I am OFFENDED that you try to throw those in our faces like that. I am offended by certain individual's siggies that try to remind me every time they post that I am a horrible person for eating meat. I don't need to see pigs blood being drained and not because it makes me "think", but because those pics chosen for those sigs, just like YOUR images, are extremes.

I just can't fathom sitting there eating a hamburger knowing that it's throat was slit so I can indulge my tastebuds for something my body doesn't really need.....it's ridiculous.

My body really DOES need it, and it doesn't bother me. Especially if it's something my family raised, hunted, and slaughtered for our bodies.

Ok, so are you saying the fact that my dad hunts most of the meals he eats is animal cruelty? I agree with the screening process. I am an animal lover too, but man has been eating meat since the beginning of time and I don't believe its wrong.

:agree My family isn't cruel. We're hunters. So is DBs family. We ALL have pets too, and we rescue dogs and cats and abused horses. We raise the farm animals well and humanely slaughter them. If we shoot a deer and it isn't a mortal shot, we will get to it as soon as we can and put it out of its misery. We don't let them suffer. (Like one poster's sig likes to insinuate)


Did you know that eating ANYTHING will eventually kill you, including eating nothing. Sorry, but death awaits every one of us, regardless of what we consume.

Now, let's go about finding out how many insects, mice, snakes and other little farm critters are brutally murdered by farmers who harvest the grains to make this "healthy" food. Don't THOSE guys have feelings? How about the plants themselves? They breathe, have chlorophyll for blood and consume just like every other living thing on the planet... Can I get a "Save the Crabgrass" campaign?

ABSOLUTELY :thumbsup :agree :yes

other countries do WE HAVE DOMESTICATED THEM!!! and to be quite honest if i was caught in a avalanche with my family and grunt (my adorable, loving boxer) and days went by it it came down to eating himor my kids starving to death you better bet my family would be eating grunt!!!!

I agree here as well. I adore my dog, Eddie, but he's a plump one and I say to him that he'd make a good little lifesaving meal if we were starving in some extreme condition. That's the circle of life. Survival of the fittest. If I didn't eat him before starvation, you can bet he might try to eat one of us (if he were a rotty or something bigger than the beagle/jack russel he is anyway :lol). Doesn't mean I love him any less or that he means any less to me.

I just asked a simple question of why you like meat.....I was just curious.

No you weren't curious, you were attacking. And when people disagreed with you, you got defensive.


Dogs and cats as food? Us country folk know that those animals are TOOLS, not pets. Dogs alert the owners to wolves, foxes and other livestock-threatening creatures, shepherds and hunters. Cats keep rats and mice out of the GRAIN SILOS, as well as other little vermin. Spiders keep the insects from laying eggs in the products.. It's a cycle, and in it, something dies.

Yes. 100%

I have always learned in biology and other classes that part of what makes humans unique is that our teeth are specifically designed (if you will) to eat both meat and veggies. So I guess I do not see how anyone can say that we are not supposed to eat meat, when our mouths are made for it. :shrug

:yes

Just like a bear's and bears are not cruel :yes It is how they were made, and it's how WE are made.



It's funny this was brought up because just yesterday I was trying to figure a way to start a topic on it. You took care of that for me, so thank you for that (seriousness, I really did want to debate this).

On that note, it is now time for me to get ready to go to the company BBQ.

Oh I forgot something. I always want to ask vegetarians and vegans if they think it's cruel to eat seafood? Fish and crustaceans are hardly smarter than fruits and veggies, do they "suffer"?

I don't think shock value is a viable means to educate people, but I do think that it has often worked as a prompt to get people to educate themselves.



I ABSOLUTELY agree. Shock value is what made me seek out more information on two topics that I actually have a different stance on now, abortion and eating meat. I've never given a second thought to eating meat but after seeing some very sad pictures of abused animals, it prompted me to browse around a bit more to see what I could find. I'll tell ya, although I know ALL animals aren't abused, I do still think there is a lot of inhumane treatment. Jason's dad worked as a truck driver for a long time, who transported cattle to California to be slaughtered. He has told me some HORRIBLE stories that have literally made me cry :tears He said that the cows would crowd to the very far corner of the holding area, as far away from the slaughter house as they could because they could smell the death and knew what was coming. He said they'd stand out there and cry for hours and hours. And on one of the lines where the cows are knocked in the head with this thing that kills them, there are plenty of them who get knocked in the head but don't get knocked exactly the right way and end up not dying right away. Granted, this was many years ago, so maybe they have changed things. But still, the fact remains that animals don't HAVE to die for us to survive. We don't NEED meat. Some people LIKE it, just like people love chocolate or diet pepsi, but we don't need it to live. We can survive just fine without it. I know that won't change people's minds, and I'm not trying to, but eating meat isn't a necessity, it's a choice... and I believe it's a selfish choice, at that. Not caring about an animal's life just so we can enjoy a chicken breast or steak. That's pretty sad.

No, I'm not a vegetarian... I do eat some meat and I've eaten PLENTY in my life time. But honestly, the more I think about how selfish I'm being, the more I try to move away from meat. I don't know if I'll give it up all together, but I'm really trying to eat as many other meatless things as I can. I'm totally loving the meatless items I'm finding at the grocery store and I feel better after eating one of those than I do after eating meat. Will the guilt ever totally stop me from being selfish? I don't know, probably not, or not any time soon.... but I'm trying to really steer away from it as much as I can and maybe one day I will be completely done with it, all together.

Oh I forgot something. I always want to ask vegetarians and vegans if they think it's cruel to eat seafood? Fish and crustaceans are hardly smarter than fruits and veggies, do they "suffer"?

Well, as far as I know, vegans don't eat fish. Vegetarians eat things made with animal products like eggs and mile and they also eat fish, but vegans don't eat either one, as far as I know.

What I dont understand is why you said you were upset the people dont like your reasons for not eating meat, but then you start this thread, and pretty much do the same thing other people have done to you.

People have choices in life, and this is one of them. I will always eat meat, I will always go hunting, and fishing, thats what I love. I learned how to shoot and deer and skin it by the age of 10. Im not ashamed of it, nor will I feel bad for it.

Its my right.

I agree with this. It's a little hypocritical to post this right after you've just vented about someone shoving their views on vegetarianism down your throat.

For those of you saying that we don't NEED meat, why do doctor's recommend red meat to anemics?

For those of you saying that we don't NEED meat, why do doctor's recommend red meat to anemics?

Yup, I was told to eat it a few times a week at least! :yes

I eat meat. I was practically raised on deer, squirrel (no i'm not kidding) and whatever we grew in the back yard. We weren't being selfish either, and to say that was the case makes me kind of upset. I was raised pretty dang poor and until about 10 years ago my parents didn't make a "fixed income." He always had a job, my dad's been a pastor for over 30 years, but when you only get 75% of the offering and all that's in the plate is $20, you do what you have to. So maybe I "only" eat meat now because that's how I was raised as someone has previously said, but owell.

I like meat, I like the taste, it helps me fight the anemia that I'm always fighting even WITH supplements. That said, if you're vegetarian or vegan more power to you. My best girl friend is vegetarian, and I respect that choice, but I don't appreciate having pictures put up and saying that if I eat meat I'm a cruel person. :bringit

I eat meat and will never stop because of a few pictures, these are here for shock value and shock value only. I make whatever decisions I make because I want to...no need to explain:wink. And for as many things that you find that say we shouldn't eat meat, I can find just asmany that say we should.

To say we aren't programmed to eat meat.....hello, lets go back to the start of time when that was basically the only thing being eaten. Seriously, we have canines and molars for a reason....and the main reason is to tear, rip anc chew tougher substances...meats being one. Trust me, we wouldn't have them if we didn't need them!!

I'm sorry that one person has upset you, but honestly why explain yourself to that person?? If you don't eat meat or animal products so be it....just because and turn the other way, maybe then you will be less angry about it...but thats just my opinion.

thanks for letting me look at that :pukey that won't change my opinion on eating meat or having dairy or eggs. I kind of wish there was a disclaimer saying you had those pics up

:yes
Yeah, those pics were harsh for 9AM. My opinion is still the same. I am a meat lover. These pics don't suprise me. PETA is in Norfolk and they are always doing something.

other countries do WE HAVE DOMESTICATED THEM!!! and to be quite honest if i was caught in a avalanche with my family and grunt (my adorable, loving boxer) and days went by it it came down to eating himor my kids starving to death you better bet my family would be eating grunt!!!!

As much as I love my boxer Ordie I would do the same.

I eat meat. Why do I eat meat??
Because it tastes so good.
It's healthy - Protein, Iron, Essential Fats......
It's versital - Chicken - you can eat it fried, boiled, grilled, stir fried.....my favorite?? Chicken Parmesan. Yummy
Beef - 'Its whats for dinner!!'
Fish - Love shrimp, scallops, salmon....tastes good, and it's good for you...didn't they say fish is 'Brain Food'??
Pork - One of my favorites ! Again - Tastes good, and it's good for you.... I made a mean pork fried rice with some leftover pork roast - boy was it yummy.


You can eat what you want, don't knock meat eaters for what they want to eat.

I eat meat. Why do I eat meat??
Because it tastes so good.
It's healthy - Protein, Iron, Essential Fats......
It's versital - Chicken - you can eat it fried, boiled, grilled, stir fried.....my favorite?? Chicken Parmesan. Yummy
Beef - 'Its whats for dinner!!'
Fish - Love shrimp, scallops, salmon....tastes good, and it's good for you...didn't they say fish is 'Brain Food'??
Pork - One of my favorites ! Again - Tastes good, and it's good for you.... I made a mean pork fried rice with some leftover pork roast - boy was it yummy.


You can eat what you want, don't knock meat eaters for what they want to eat.


I AGREE!!!

Do you feed your animals a food that has no meat or meat by products in it? I hope you do because the animals are dying for your dog food.

Shock Value advertising doesn't work. There's a reason why the anti-abortion commercial that showed dead fetuses at varying ages was taken off the air by the very community that spawned the idea for it in the first place: It's crude. It's not education, it's a means of putting uncomfortable images in peoples' faces to "make a point". I can make my point without ever -EVER- calling on a single image. I, for one, did find the wording that accompanied the images more offensive than the images. Instead of "enlightening" me to the plight of the animal-savers, all I saw was "YOU ARE A CRUEL HUMAN BEING."

Regardless, this debate is going to remain as polarized as it was before it was posted. Some people do, some don't. But, if blame and fingers are aimed at me, I'm quite competent in my research, coming from "farming country" myself.

Dogs and cats as food? Us country folk know that those animals are TOOLS, not pets. Dogs alert the owners to wolves, foxes and other livestock-threatening creatures, shepherds and hunters. Cats keep rats and mice out of the GRAIN SILOS, as well as other little vermin. Spiders keep the insects from laying eggs in the products.. It's a cycle, and in it, something dies.

Debate FACT, not preferences.

You said what I was going to.. but was too tired last night to keep going with this :lol

Do you feed your animals a food that has no meat or meat by products in it? I hope you do because the animals are dying for your dog food.

And if you're not feeding your dogs some kind of meat (general you, not "you jennygirl" :giggle), they can suffer as well due to health issues. Dogs are carnivores :yes

And if you're not feeding your dogs some kind of meat (general you, not "you jennygirl" :giggle), they can suffer as well due to health issues. Dogs are carnivores :yes

exactly!!! Thank you for finishing that for me...I am just disturbed by this post!! My dogs eat a 50 dollar dog food that has meat and herbs in it...I think ill show them those pictures LOL

Geez....I'm sorry that I just wanted to get this off my chest! Do you know how many times I had to bite my tongue becaue someone put me down for not liking meat!!!!!???? Even when DH and I were planning our reception....I had to explain why I didn't want their meat lasgna........it's sooooo frustrating!!!!

With the things you're saying in this thread, YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING THAT PEOPLE GIVING YOU A HARD TIME FOR NOT EATING MEAT DO. :banghead

SO let me ask you, does your husband eat meat? Your parents? Siblings? If so, do you throw those pictures in their face as well?

With the things you're saying in this thread, YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING THAT PEOPLE GIVING YOU A HARD TIME FOR NOT EATING MEAT DO. :banghead

AMEN!

Whoa....animals were put here for food and clothing.....so your dog or cat is supposed to be for food or clothing???? :confused

There are places all over the world that dogs and cats are eaten regularly for food.

Like I already said.. the way you are approaching this debate is exactly what turns people off to why you are a vegetarian. I've been a vegetarian... but this is just like walking around saying "I'm christian and if you're not you are an awful disgusting evil person" and I know you would also find that offensive ;)

There are places all over the world that dogs and cats are eaten regularly for food.

Like I already said.. the way you are approaching this debate is exactly what turns people off to why you are a vegetarian. I've been a vegetarian... but this is just like walking around saying "I'm christian and if you're not you are an awful disgusting evil person" and I know you would also find that offensive ;)


yup, exactly, reading this thread made me wanna go get a burger from mcdonalds, or some chicken.

It did nothing for me, but make me love my meat more.

If you wanna change what people think, pictures like that are not the way to go. Actually its a way to piss people off.

gaaaahhhhhhhhh the hypocrisy is making my head hurt.

I know....I just wanted people to open their eyes and really take a look at what they are eating.....I know I won't change their minds, but ya never know what a little education might bring.

But heres the thing with shock value photos.. You MIGHT make 1 person think twice and then tick a whole lot of others off and make them want to do the opposite. Where as if you had just come and educated with a milder tone, no shock value photos and information you may of educated say 15. WHats better? the 1 person you educated by shocking them into it? Or the 15 you educated with some resources and information to read up?

For those of you saying that we don't NEED meat, why do doctor's recommend red meat to anemics?


I was told I needed to eat some red meat and fish. I did all the healthy things when I was a vegetarian but it just wasn't enough since I was always enemic.

Im just waiting for her to tell us what she feeds her animals

Originally Posted by Crystal520 http://militarysos.com/forum/images_msos/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://militarysos.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1122986#post1122986)
I know....I just wanted people to open their eyes and really take a look at what they are eating.....I know I won't change their minds, but ya never know what a little education might bring.


I dont see anything educational about what you are posting. You are stating your opinions, you are not stating fact.

Im just waiting for her to tell us what she feeds her animals
Same here.


DO you swat bugs around you? Kill a roach if its running around your house?

But heres the thing with shock value photos.. You MIGHT make 1 person think twice and then tick a whole lot of others off and make them want to do the opposite. Where as if you had just come and educated with a milder tone, no shock value photos and information you may of educated say 15. WHats better? the 1 person you educated by shocking them into it? Or the 15 you educated with some resources and information to read up?

:yes

There is nothing educated about the way you went about trying to open peoples eyes. Instead of debating with hard facts you used propoganda and pretty much told everyone who eats meat they are awful. This kind of thing is entirely a personal choice... just as being Wiccan or christian or wearing makeup or not is. Telling people they are wrong for the way they choose to live thier life is wrong.

Im just waiting for her to tell us what she feeds her animals

I was curious about that as well.

I think this is the biggest bunch of crap. I live in a farming community and it is just NOT like those extreme pictures.
Give me a break.

people may think veggies are good for dogs in abundance but they arent...

Shock Value advertising doesn't work. There's a reason why the anti-abortion commercial that showed dead fetuses at varying ages was taken off the air by the very community that spawned the idea for it in the first place: It's crude. It's not education, it's a means of putting uncomfortable images in peoples' faces to "make a point". I can make my point without ever -EVER- calling on a single image. I, for one, did find the wording that accompanied the images more offensive than the images. Instead of "enlightening" me to the plight of the animal-savers, all I saw was "YOU ARE A CRUEL HUMAN BEING."

Regardless, this debate is going to remain as polarized as it was before it was posted. Some people do, some don't. But, if blame and fingers are aimed at me, I'm quite competent in my research, coming from "farming country" myself.

Dogs and cats as food? Us country folk know that those animals are TOOLS, not pets. Dogs alert the owners to wolves, foxes and other livestock-threatening creatures, shepherds and hunters. Cats keep rats and mice out of the GRAIN SILOS, as well as other little vermin. Spiders keep the insects from laying eggs in the products.. It's a cycle, and in it, something dies.

Debate FACT, not preferences.

All I have to say is you know your stuff. :tu :mrgreen The way you write your responses make it so clear and easy to understand. You are a great debater.

Kristi how do you debate and argue with him LOL

Kristi how do you debate and argue with him LOL


I'm pretty sure they agree on most topics :P and Kristi is a smart cookie herself ;)

Kristi how do you debate and argue with him LOL

:rofl I try not to. I just roll my eyes and tell him to shut it! :haha Nah we get in some good debates. The best ones are cloud to ground lightning and ghosts. otherwise we agree on ALOT of things

I'm pretty sure they agree on most topics :P and Kristi is a smart cookie herself ;)

Indeed we do. And why thank ya. Although sometimes I feel like I am a dingy blonde :giggle Oh wait! Just ask Hate. He'll agree with that one :rofl

LOL my husband and I agree most times but to just tick him off occasionally, ill disagree and he knows it LOL

Indeed we do. And why thank ya. Although sometimes I feel like I am a dingy blonde :giggle Oh wait! Just ask Hate. He'll agree with that one :rofl


:lol

OK, I haven't read all the posts, just the first page. But here is a question....how is THIS post any different than people posting pictures of aborted babies?? And that law, where preggo women who are contemplating having an abortion where they will be FORCED to see what they will be aborting, how is THAT any different? I'm just saying I see the point of the post, why shouldn't people know the truth about what they are consuming. Yea not ALL animals live in those conditions, but MOST animals raised to be consumed in this country DO.

I am Vegan, and I will tell my views to anyone that will listen. But I won't FORCE my opinions on anyone. BUT just like I wont judge people for being meat eaters and won't force them to try to change their mind, I don't expect people to judge ME for being Vegan and have them try to make me feel like an idiot for being an animal rights activist and refusing to contribute to the pain and suffering of innocent animals

OK, I haven't read all the posts, just the first page. But here is a question....how is THIS post any different than people posting pictures of aborted babies?? And that law, where preggo women who are contemplating having an abortion where they will be FORCED to see what they will be aborting, how is THAT any different? I'm just saying I see the point of the post, why shouldn't people know the truth about what they are consuming. Yea not ALL animals live in those conditions, but MOST animals raised to be consumed in this country DO.

I am Vegan, and I will tell my views to anyone that will listen. But I won't FORCE my opinions on anyone. BUT just like I wont judge people for being meat eaters and won't force them to try to change their mind, I don't expect people to judge ME for being Vegan and have them try to make me feel like an idiot for being an animal rights activist and refusing to contribute to the pain and suffering of innocent animals

Have you been to most farms that raise animals for slaughter? Are you just taking stats that youve read some where.

The issue is that she vented about someone saying things to her and then she turned it around and then did it to everyone else.

OK, I haven't read all the posts, just the first page. But here is a question....how is THIS post any different than people posting pictures of aborted babies?? And that law, where preggo women who are contemplating having an abortion where they will be FORCED to see what they will be aborting, how is THAT any different? I'm just saying I see the point of the post, why shouldn't people know the truth about what they are consuming. Yea not ALL animals live in those conditions, but MOST animals raised to be consumed in this country DO.

I am Vegan, and I will tell my views to anyone that will listen. But I won't FORCE my opinions on anyone. BUT just like I wont judge people for being meat eaters and won't force them to try to change their mind, I don't expect people to judge ME for being Vegan and have them try to make me feel like an idiot for being an animal rights activist and refusing to contribute to the pain and suffering of innocent animals

ALL aborted babies look that way.. that is how abortions have to be done. Not all animals are treated that way, not even close.

Wait a minute, is she saying we should be shown these pictures at the store before we buy meat since she compared it to abortion...

Im slow and pregnant! LOL

I haven't just looked at PETA sites and just made my decisions. Even though I haven't been to ALL the farms in the world, I HAVE done research.

Yes all fetuses look like that, BUT when people are shown those pictures its still SHOCK and AWE type of activism. so how exactly is that any different, I'd love to know? and ALL animals that people consume have been killed for humans, so they ALL die. So they may not all look like that, but they all are killed for selfish reasons IN MY OPINION. I'm not condoning this type of shock factor methods, but I am expressing my opinion on my disagreement that animals should be killed AT ALL for human consumption. EVEN if animals were raised in good conditions, I STILL would NOT condone their being killed just so humans can get something they 'like the taste' of. Its the 21st Century, humans do not NEED meat to survive. And the whole 'food chain' thing doesn't fly with me either. IMO its BECAUSE we are at the top of the food chain that give us a CHOICE of what we eat. Animals who eat other animals they have no choice, that is all they are capable of eating to survive, humans have the ability to choose. TO ME, that is selfish.

And the whole thing of plants being alive too. COME ON are you kidding me? Plants do not have feelings, they don't have congnitive skills, they do not feel pain, They don't scream when they are being killed. And yes, it has been researched by scientists.

so just to CLARIFY, I am NOT trying to push my beliefs on anyone, I am just stating my opinions.

OK, I haven't read all the posts, just the first page. But here is a question....how is THIS post any different than people posting pictures of aborted babies?? And that law, where preggo women who are contemplating having an abortion where they will be FORCED to see what they will be aborting, how is THAT any different? I'm just saying I see the point of the post, why shouldn't people know the truth about what they are consuming. Yea not ALL animals live in those conditions, but MOST animals raised to be consumed in this country DO.

I am Vegan, and I will tell my views to anyone that will listen. But I won't FORCE my opinions on anyone. BUT just like I wont judge people for being meat eaters and won't force them to try to change their mind, I don't expect people to judge ME for being Vegan and have them try to make me feel like an idiot for being an animal rights activist and refusing to contribute to the pain and suffering of innocent animals


Shock value pics hold no weight to me. On any subject. As I said I respect peoples beliefs and admire them for being so into em. But I draw the line at stuff being shoved down my throat. On any subject. Whic her captions and pics scream "my views are right and yours are wrong" she didnt come into saying this is why she is a vegan or vegetarian and heres some info...

Really I think my plants are alive when we water them they perk up and are growing out of control...When something does that its alive..

Did you ever eat meat? So in a way isnt that being hypocritical, cause you once did it too and didnt have an issue then im guessing.

Doing research and actually taveling to peoples places to actually see things, or do you just read them? I can read stats too but i dont believe them all the time.

Do you volunteer at the humane society? Do you know there are meat and meat by products in the dog food.

All I have to say is I kinda wish there had been a disclaimer on the pics Crystal. You know my children are with me and my 4 yr old saw them! Now I have to explain what they were to her......

Im sorry that your children had to see those...

Really I think my plants are alive when we water them they perk up and are growing out of control...When something does that its alive..
Yes, but they DO NOT feel pain, they do not have a brain to form cognitive skills, they do not have feelings, they do NOT scream

Did you ever eat meat? So in a way isnt that being hypocritical, cause you once did it too and didnt have an issue then im guessing.
Yes I did eat meat all my life. How is that being hypocritical if my choices and views in life have changed and I no longer eat meat? I don't see your point here.


Doing research and actually taveling to peoples places to actually see things, or do you just read them? I can read stats too but i dont believe them all the time.
Ok so do you not believe that there was a holocaust, do you not believe that people in Africa are dying of starvation, do you not believe that New Orleans is a disaster area? Have you been to those countries or places and seen it for yourself? Of have you just seen videos and read about it?

Do you volunteer at the humane society? Do you know there are meat and meat by products in the dog food.
Yes I volunteer at the humane society. Yes I know the stuff dogs eat have meat by products in them. But they are not MY dogs and I don't have a say in what they are fed. Obviously you didn't read all my posts and read the part where I say that I don't judge others for what they do. I know how to pick my battles, and trying to fight the humane society for feeding their dogs the only food they can afford as a non-profit organization who is funded by only private funds would be a stupid battle for me to get into.

first when you look up things on animal slaughters, cause most of the sites are for the non meat eaters, do you not think that most of what you see will be the worst of the worst of the worst? I havent been to those places, but if i look them up I wont get a one sided view either.

Like what you responded to the i love meat post, why cant people respond and say what they want about the pictures that she posted?

Look there is a member whose children saw those pictures, what is she going to tell her kids?

And dogs cant survive without meat in their diet, will you ever own a dog?

okay after catching up on pages 3-12 i just have to say to tawny i agree with you about the siggies that have the same sort of information in it.

first when you look up things on animal slaughters, cause most of the sites are for the non meat eaters, do you not think that most of what you see will be the worst of the worst of the worst? I havent been to those places, but if i look them up I wont get a one sided view either.
Are you sure about that? Every single website is one sided, I don't care how much they say they are unbiased.

Like what you responded to the i love meat post, why cant people respond and say what they want about the pictures that she posted?
HUH, sorry you lost me on this one, LOL, not sure if it was meant to be sarcastic

Look there is a member whose children saw those pictures, what is she going to tell her kids?
WHEN did I say it was OK for her to post those pictures?? I'd love for you to point that out to me. In FACT I said I did NOT condone this type of shock methods.

And dogs cant survive without meat in their diet, will you ever own a dog?
Yes I will own a dog, and dogs CAN survive on a Vegan diet. I've read about and KNOWN people who have been able to successfully do so, and no their dogs didnt die young, and they lived a long perfectly healthy life without having to consume meat products.

Wow i work for a holistic super hippie, organic, accupuncture giving veterinarian and she feeds her dogs meat.

And like i mentioned giving an animal an abundance of veggies is NOT healthy for them.

And she feeds them raw meat at that.

okay after catching up on pages 3-12 i just have to say to tawny i agree with you about the siggies that have the same sort of information in it.


I know that one was a stab at me, because I have this siggie, but is ok ;). Its my opinion and it will remain in my siggie. Its how I feel and it won't change.

Wow i work for a holistic super hippie, organic, accupuncture giving veterinarian and she feeds her dogs meat.

And like i mentioned giving an animal an abundance of veggies is NOT healthy for them.

And she feeds them raw meat at that.

We live in the 21st century, vegan diets do NOT consist of just vegetables :rolleyes. There are PLENTY of choices for vegan including tofu products and soy products that have all the nutrients necessary to survive. I"m not an idiot, I dont expect an animal to survive on lettuce. and what does it matter what your co-worker is, if she chooses to do that then good for her. But it won't happen in my household.

Good debating with ya, but I"m off to the Humane society now, I have to walk those damn meat product eating dogs, :teehee

I see benefits to both sides as far as nutritional value goes. Meat can and does have loads of vitamins and minerals. So do veggies. I would never tell someone they were wrong for the choices they made in their life. (providing those choices arent like murder, child abuse and the like. Then I would probably tell them whats up lol) I think the main issue with this debate persay isnt the debate of meat vs vegie but HOW it was posted and presented. At least thats my issue with it. I would NEVER tell someone who was a vegetarian or vegan that they were wrong for thier choices. Just as I wouldnt want to be told I was wrong for my choice to remain a meat eater. The way the orginial post came across, I think, is what everyones issue is. (at least mine) It wasnt even educational. And it totally made me want to do the opposite of what her post was about.

Ask a PROFESSIONAL if feeding your dog tofu is going to give it all the nutrients and things it needs. You can roll your eyes at me all you want, I work in this field every day.

Im sure the next non meat eating protested thing is going to be the raw diets that people feed.

I see benefits to both sides as far as nutritional value goes. Meat can and does have loads of vitamins and minerals. So do veggies. I would never tell someone they were wrong for the choices they made in their life. (providing those choices arent like murder, child abuse and the like. Then I would probably tell them whats up lol) I think the main issue with this debate persay isnt the debate of meat vs vegie but HOW it was posted and presented. At least thats my issue with it. I would NEVER tell someone who was a vegetarian or vegan that they were wrong for thier choices. Just as I wouldnt want to be told I was wrong for my choice to remain a meat eater. The way the orginial post came across, I think, is what everyones issue is. (at least mine) It wasnt even educational. And it totally made me want to do the opposite of what her post was about.

:agree I know it kinda got me riled up. Not for what the main point was, but how it was worded and presented

I was pissed, thats why im still in this debate. ITS OK for some things to be one sided cause other peoples opinions or logic doesnt matter.

Ask a PROFESSIONAL if feeding your dog tofu is going to give it all the nutrients and things it needs. You can roll your eyes at me all you want, I work in this field every day.

Im sure the next non meat eating protested thing is going to be the raw diets that people feed.

Just one more thing before I go, lol.
You assume I am pulling all of this out of my ass. I HAVE asked a professional just for your info ;). and you totally miss the point of everything I say. I'm not going to just feed a dog tofu and lettuce, come on now it was an EXAMPLE of SOME products that dog food can contain, you take things way too literally :rolleyes:rolleyes (an extra one just for you ;) )
there ARE products already on the market that are vegan and have all the nutrients dogs need. And there are also homemade baked products that can be made. MY VET pointed out a couple of them himself in casual conversation.

I was pissed, thats why im still in this debate. ITS OK for some things to be one sided cause other peoples opinions or logic doesnt matter.


Its called a DEBATE, everyone's opinions and logic matter

That wasnt geared towards you, did you read crystals vent? thats why people are mad also...She did the same thing to us that someone did to her.

That wasnt geared towards you, did you read crystals vent? thats why people are mad also...She did the same thing to us that someone did to her.

Ah ok, I missed that part, LOL. I haven't been online since yesterday afternoon, man I need an IPhone so I can be online 24/7 :teehee

LOL if i had one of those i would never be able to use it LOL

Ah ok, I missed that part, LOL. I haven't been online since yesterday afternoon, man I need an IPhone so I can be online 24/7 :teehee


She vented about a woman giving her a hard time in the grocery store for being vegan and then came and made this thread.

I know that one was a stab at me, because I have this siggie, but is ok ;). Its my opinion and it will remain in my siggie. Its how I feel and it won't change.

actually you aren't the only one that has the i'm proud to be vegan or vegetarian :) it just kinda bugs me. i respect your choice i really do, my aunt was vegetarian for over 10 years but it's not something i could do kwim?

I know that one was a stab at me, because I have this siggie, but is ok ;). Its my opinion and it will remain in my siggie. Its how I feel and it won't change.

Your siggie is no different or worse than any of the other siggies that have claimed prolife, prochoice, flaming the president, the war, republicans, dems, etc, etc... there are lots of sigs on here that take 'personal jabs' if people want to go there. I've even seen siggies that take personal jabs at other members, personally :nutts

Can someone tell me the difference between a vegatarain and vegan?

I eat meat. I also hunt and fish :dunno. I am anemic if i didnt eat meat that would probably screw me up considering high potency iron supplements didnt help. I consider meat food just like i consider veggies, and fruits food. I love fish, do i eat them though...yes i do.

Can someone tell me the difference between a vegatarain and vegan?

I eat meat. I also hunt and fish :dunno. I am anemic if i didnt eat meat that would probably screw me up considering high potency iron supplements didnt help. I consider meat food just like i consider veggies, and fruits food. I love fish, do i eat them though...yes i do.

vegan eat absolutely NO animal products (cheese, milk, eggs, meat) while a vegetarian eats animal products like milk and eggs

Your siggie is no different or worse than any of the other siggies that have claimed prolife, prochoice, flaming the president, the war, republicans, dems, etc, etc... there are lots of sigs on here that take 'personal jabs' if people want to go there. I've even seen siggies that take personal jabs at other members, personally :nutts

Exactly. There are some siggies on here that would truly get me upset if I let them, because it makes me sad that people think that way, but hey it's their choice- what can I do?

vegan eat absolutely NO animal products (cheese, milk, eggs, meat) while a vegetarian eats animal products like milk and eggs

Thanks Jill.

np nicole.

:giggle Nothing I love more than the smell of bacon filling the kitchen! I just cooked my daughter some turkey bacon this morning :hungry

I also come from a family of hunters & have been around a lot of farmers (my grandpa was one and a couple uncles as well as growing up in "farm country").

I don't care really about the siggies. Yeah there are a few that are very annoying, and when I'm at work, sometimes I make the siggies go away but this still isn't the issue. I hate the way this was brought up. I feel like there's a ton of "debating" go on that isn't necessary.

We live in the 21st century, vegan diets do NOT consist of just vegetables :rolleyes. There are PLENTY of choices for vegan including tofu products and soy products that have all the nutrients necessary to survive. I"m not an idiot, I dont expect an animal to survive on lettuce. and what does it matter what your co-worker is, if she chooses to do that then good for her. But it won't happen in my household.

:yes :yes I just very recently found all of these products and have been going crazy trying to try them all :lol I've eliminated at least 50-60% of the "real meat" that I was eating because with these types of products, I've found that I really don't have as much desire for the "real" stuff anymore. I don't really care who does or doesn't eat meat, but I DO think eating meat is selfish and yes, I'm calling myself selfish :lol It IS though and I can't deny that, no matter how much I've eaten and no matter how much I've liked it. Sacrificing an animal for my own wants is selfish, and that's the bottom line. Human nature is selfish though, so I"m not sure that this topic is any different from most others that are debated. I have found that as a personal choice, eating nonmeat products has just made me feel better. I think giving up meat is one of those things that no one can talk you into doing... you just have to have a revelation of some sort to realize that it's what you want to do. So, I don't think forcing it on anyone will work. If people have the desire to go meatfree, I think they really have to just decide that on their own, without being talked into it. If you know what I mean :D

:yes :yes I just very recently found all of these products and have been going crazy trying to try them all :lol I've eliminated at least 50-60% of the "real meat" that I was eating because with these types of products, I've found that I really don't have as much desire for the "real" stuff anymore. I don't really care who does or doesn't eat meat, but I DO think eating meat is selfish and yes, I'm calling myself selfish :lol It IS though and I can't deny that, no matter how much I've eaten and no matter how much I've liked it. Sacrificing an animal for my own wants is selfish, and that's the bottom line. Human nature is selfish though, so I"m not sure that this topic is any different from most others that are debated. I have found that as a personal choice, eating nonmeat products has just made me feel better. I think giving up meat is one of those things that no one can talk you into doing... you just have to have a revelation of some sort to realize that it's what you want to do. So, I don't think forcing it on anyone will work. If people have the desire to go meatfree, I think they really have to just decide that on their own, without being talked into it. If you know what I mean :D

I completely agree. This debate was just presented in the wrong way. Deciding to go vegetarian or vegan is a completely personal choice and no one can be talked into it.

regarding the anemia argument:

Anemia Iron-Deficiency

The poor and the aged are no longer the only ones being affected by iron-deficiency. Anemia is striking more often in our society-affecting people of all age groups. Iron-deficiency, anemia can be caused by blood loss, problems with your body’s absorption of iron, or not getting enough iron in your diet. Studies show that low iron levels can be very dangerous, and can lead to heart disease and even death, especially in older people.

Symptoms of low iron include fatigue, difficult breathing, weakness, headache, fainting spells, and depression. You might also notice paleness to the color of your skin, and nail beds. If left untreated or in later stages anemia can cause rapid pulse, irregular heart rate, and chest pain (if you ever feel chest pain head to the hospital A.S.A.P). Women with iron deficiency may also notice abnormal menstruation.

If your anemia is caused by too little iron in your diet, here are some ways to boost your iron naturally.

Eat some meat, a good rule of thumb is the darker the meat, the greater the iron content. Dark meats are also rich in vitamin B12 and zinc, important nutrients in preventing anemia.

No meat, not a problem, some good alternative sources are eggs, dairy products, grains, and legumes. If you like soy, try tofu or any number of other soy products. Dried fruits, nuts, and blackstrap molasses are also good sources of iron. Iron can also be found raisins, spinach, and broccoli, lima beans and green peas; dry beans and peas.

Greens, one of the best ways to make sure you get the iron you need is by eating your greens. While green leafy vegetables don’t contain much iron, they do contain a lot of folic acid and other nutrients. Folic acid plays a key role in helping your body absorb iron and the equally important vitamin B12.

Vitamin C, makes it easier for your body to absorb iron. It is so important, in fact, that lack of vitamin C can sometimes cause anemia. Some nutrition experts say you should get at least 500 milligrams of vitamin C every day. Ask your doctor what is best for you.

Getting enough iron won’t do much good unless you eat a healthy diet. Vitamin A, vitamin E, thiamin (B1), riboflavin (B2), and copper are important for healthy blood. Food rich in these vitamins and minerals help your body hold on to the iron it gets. Liver, dark green vegetables, and dairy products are great sources of riboflavin and vitamin A, shellfish, nuts, and certain iron rich cereals, and legumes are good providers of copper and thiamin, and for extra vitamin E, try some wheat germ.

Drinks with iron, Grape juice, and pomegranate juice are all rich in iron. Teas made from dandelion, help in treating anemia.

Foods that decrease iron absorption

Coffee and black tea, it is better to drink them before you eat. Research shows that drinking these beverages during or after a meal reduces your body’s absorption of some types of iron, while drinking an hour before your meal does not. Drinking coffee or black tea does not affect iron absorption from meat, it does however, affect iron absorption from vegetable and dairy sources. It also reduces absorption from iron supplements.

Fiber, although it is a necessary part of everyone’s diet, eating too much fiber can lessen the amount of iron absorbed from other foods.

Antacids also present a problem if you are trying to boost iron. Doctors report that a lack of hydrochloric acid in the stomach is a big cause of iron deficiency, especially as people get older. This acid helps the digestive system break down and absorb nutrients like iron.

Treatment for any type of anemia should focus on the underlining cause of the condition. Your doctor will be able to help find the cause of your Iron-deficiency, and recommend a therapy program that will work best for you.

You do not HAVE to eat meat, even if you're anemic. Since most of the general population do eat meat, that's a quick and common fix for anemia, which is why it's recommended first by doctors. But as more people go veg, I'm sure more doctors will recommend other products. In fact when I was anemic with my pregnancies, they did suggest soy products but at that time I did not have any interest in them b/c they just sounded weird :giggle Little did I know how yummy they can be! :hungry

I think the main issue with this debate persay isnt the debate of meat vs vegie but HOW it was posted and presented. At least thats my issue with it. I would NEVER tell someone who was a vegetarian or vegan that they were wrong for thier choices. Just as I wouldnt want to be told I was wrong for my choice to remain a meat eater. The way the orginial post came across, I think, is what everyones issue is. (at least mine) It wasnt even educational. And it totally made me want to do the opposite of what her post was about.

This is how feel, too. I'm a vegetarian but even I was a bit offended and disgusted. I don't eat meat cause I don't like the taste and I can't stand to work with it (prepare it and cook it). But my kids eat meat and so does John. Their meat intake is small since I don't cook it but I don't tell them no you can't ever have it. Johnny will be 2 in Sept. and has yet to have a hamburger (cheeseburger). I didn't purposefully keep him from having one we just haven't given him one. In fact, I didn't even realize he never had one until this past 4th when one of our friends asked what he would eat and one of the things she listed was a hamburger. Anyways, my point is I would never tell anyone they shouldn't eat meat and if they do they are wrong.

Crystal, I believe your intentions weren't bad but unfortunately you went about expressing your beliefs in a way that is just going to tick people off. If someone came at me like that I would turn a deaf ear and walk away. When approached the right way people will listen and even if they don't agree will at least understand where you're coming from. Right now, it looks like, to me at least, that most people are ticked off, offended and don't care. Is that really the message you were trying to get across and what you were trying to accomplish? Personally, I don't think it is so I hope next time your approch is better and then maybe you'll get some people to at least understand where you're coming from.

On a side note, I haven't read the post about your encounter but I've read enough on here to know a little about it and I want to say I'm sorry you were approached like that.

It was presented disgustingly...I hope no one elses children saw the pictures either.

I think what disurbes me the most is that she vented about something and then came here and did the same thing.

All I have to say is that I REALLY need to turn siggy's back on... Haha.

It was presented disgustingly...I hope no one elses children saw the pictures either.

I think what disurbes me the most is that she vented about something and then came here and did the same thing.

I edited the original post.

I think what put me over the edge was someones kid who saw those.

thank you Brandi, that was very nice of you to do!

We eat meat in our home but to tell you the truth I just really don't like meat all that much. I find most of it tough and not that palatable. I could probably easily switch over to a mostly veg diet and not miss meat all that much but my hubby has told me flat out the he will never stop eating it.


What I don't understand is why vegetarians are always looking for something to "replace" meat. Why, if most of them agree that eating meat is not a necessity, then why is it that I'm always seeing meat replacement products. IMO humans will always crave meat to some extent.......and those type of products only confirm for me that we always will! Just something I've noticed and never fully understood:nutts

Oh I forgot something. I always want to ask vegetarians and vegans if they think it's cruel to eat seafood? Fish and crustaceans are hardly smarter than fruits and veggies, do they "suffer"?

Yes, they do suffer, when fish are pulled from the ocean they feel pain. The change of pressure hurts and they are "drowning" in the air.

I once watched a boyfriend's grandma prepare soft shell crabs. She snipped their little eye stalks off and said they don't feel it. I don't know I think I would notice if someone cut my eyes off.

Yes, they do suffer, when fish are pulled from the ocean they feel pain. The change of pressure hurts and they are "drowning" in the air.

I once watched a boyfriend's grandma prepare soft shell crabs. She snipped their little eye stalks off and said they don't feel it. I don't know I think I would notice if someone cut my eyes off.

:giggle:giggle:giggle:giggle:giggle:giggle:giggle:giggle:giggle

Yes, they do suffer, when fish are pulled from the ocean they feel pain. The change of pressure hurts and they are "drowning" in the air.

I once watched a boyfriend's grandma prepare soft shell crabs. She snipped their little eye stalks off and said they don't feel it. I don't know I think I would notice if someone cut my eyes off.

I have fish and i agree they feel pain, my oscars are very smart also.

I don't think fish feel pain :lol Their brains are the size of a pebble!

ETA: I guess they do but that still sounds silly to me.

http://www.firstscience.com/home/perspectives/editorials/do-fish-feel-pain-the-science-behind-whether-fish-feel-pain-page-2-1_1818.html

For those of you saying that we don't NEED meat, why do doctor's recommend red meat to anemics?

I was never told to eat more red meat, I was always prescribed iron.

I also tried to eat foods rich in iron such as:

Iron Rich Foods containing Non-Heme Iron

Excellent Sources
Enriched breakfast cereals
Cooked beans and lentils
Pumpkin seeds
Blackstrap Molasses

Good Sources
Canned beans
Baked potato with skin
Enriched pasta
Canned asparagus

The iron absorption-enhancing foods can also increase the absorption of non-heme iron. While some food items can enhance iron absorption, some can inhibit or interfere iron absorption. Avoid eating them with the iron-rich foods to maximize iron absorption.

Iron Absorption Enhancers
Fruits: Orange, Orange Juice, cantaloupe, strawberries, grapefruit etc
Vegetables: Broccoli, brussel sprouts, tomato, tomato juice, potato, green & red peppers
White wine

Iron Absorption Inhibitors
Red Wine, Coffee & Tea
Vegetables: Spinach, chard, beet greens, rhubarb and sweet potato
Whole grains and bran
Soy products

If you plan your meals correctly so that one meal a day or every other day is geared towards maximum iron absorption you should be healthy. (general you)

I am anemic if I eat meat or not so I just watch my diet so that I can correct an