Ok after working in the veterinary field for quite a bit now, I am having a problem with people who just feel the need to breed their dog/cat with no experience.
Example: We had a client come in with a preggo pit and she was deathly underweight.....after she left, the vet came out and basically vented about it saying that the owner declined any type of medical treatment and the only reason they got her preggo was to make money :reallymad
This isn't the first time I have seen this happen and I have also seen alot of puppies with poor health due to inexperience. It is just a shame. How do yall feel about this? Should their be more strict of requirements that need to be met if someone wanted to breed their dog/cat?

Ok after working in the veterinary field for quite a bit now, I am having a problem with people who just feel the need to breed their dog/cat with no experience.
Example: We had a client come in with a preggo pit and she was deathly underweight.....after she left, the vet came out and basically vented about it saying that the owner declined any type of medical treatment and the only reason they got her preggo was to make money :reallymad
This isn't the first time I have seen this happen and I have also seen alot of puppies with poor health due to inexperience. It is just a shame. How do yall feel about this? Should their be more strict of requirements that need to be met if someone wanted to breed their dog/cat?

The vet should not have came out and vented at all - the vet should have picked up the phone and called the police. If the pitbull was in danger of starvation through malnutrition, the owners could have been fined/arrested as well as breeding without a license. There ARE strict requirements for it, and it sounds like your vet isn't well versed in them. I would recommend contacting a legal repository and getting the information and protocols to safegaurd your place of employment - neglecting to report these crimes makes your boss just as guilty.

There probably should be. But tell me how you (general you) plan to implement this. There are a shitload of pets and pet owners. How are you going to regulate breeding?

I'm staying out of debates that are started with a heavily emotionally laden post from the get go from now on.

There probably should be. But tell me how you (general you) plan to implement this. There are a shitload of pets and pet owners. How are you going to regulate breeding?

Simple: Breeders are only allowed to sell fixed animals, save special instances where a breeder sells to another breeder, in which case, the state would impose a breeder's fee. This money would be used to fund these imposed laws.

I'm staying out of debates that are started with a heavily emotionally laden post from the get go from now on.

Betcha I can get you to post in here...

Betcha I can get you to post in here...

Probably not, since you already said everything I probably would have, only better than I could have :giggle

BRING IT! :bringit :teehee

Dang it, you already won the bet...

Simple: Breeders are only allowed to sell fixed animals, save special instances where a breeder sells to another breeder, in which case, the state would impose a breeder's fee. This money would be used to fund these imposed laws.


And how do you ensure that every person that breeds an animal abides by this law? There are always people that slip throught the cracks. You can not govern everyone,

And how do you ensure that every person that breeds an animal abides by this law? There are always people that slip throught the cracks. You can not govern everyone,

You can't. However, you can use the money earned from reputable breeders to combat illegal breeding. As with the war on drugs, you'll probably never win, but you can certainly make a significant dent.

Dang it, you already won the bet...

GOOAAAAALLLLLLLLLL!

I win!

The vet should not have came out and vented at all - the vet should have picked up the phone and called the police. If the pitbull was in danger of starvation through malnutrition, the owners could have been fined/arrested as well as breeding without a license. There ARE strict requirements for it, and it sounds like your vet isn't well versed in them. I would recommend contacting a legal repository and getting the information and protocols to safegaurd your place of employment - neglecting to report these crimes makes your boss just as guilty.

I totally see your point, but my boss has being doing this for over 20 years and I am pretty sure he knows the laws....I'm not sure if he did call the Hampton SPCA or not, but we do have a animal cop that comes by all the vet clinics in the area so I'm sure action was taken. As for him coming out and "venting", it wasn't like there we clients in the building, he was just basically letting us know what happened and that he wasn't happy about it at all. The clinic I work at has been in business for a long time, so I am sure if we weren't following the laws, we would have been shut down by now. Also, by our patient rights....if an owner declines treatment, there is nothing we can do as a clinic for that dog. But like I said before, I'm sure some sort of action has been taken.

As for there being already strict laws, then how comes I see it more and more each day? I personally believe that if you are not a registered breeder, you should sign a contract from the place of adoption saying you will have your pets spayed or neutered.

I totally see your point, but my boss has being doing this for over 20 years and I am pretty sure he knows the laws....I'm not sure if he did call the Hampton SPCA or not, but we do have a animal cop that comes by all the vet clinics in the area so I'm sure action was taken. As for him coming out and "venting", it wasn't like there we clients in the building, he was just basically letting us know what happened and that he wasn't happy about it at all. The clinic I work at has been in business for a long time, so I am sure if we weren't following the laws, we would have been shut down by now. Also, by our patient rights....if an owner declines treatment, there is nothing we can do as a clinic for that dog. But like I said before, I'm sure some sort of action has been taken.

As for there being already strict laws, then how comes I see it more and more each day? I personally believe that if you are not a registered breeder, you should sign a contract from the place of adoption saying you will have your pets spayed or neutered.


People DO sign contracts most of the time. They don't follow them.

This is a heavy subject for me also. I work at an animal hospital, and seeing the way some breeders can treat animals is horrible. A lot of them don't even have the experience to be raising baby animals. It absolutely kills me, especially with all the animals in shelters being killed because nobody will adopt them. They are JUST as "animal" as the ones bred, only they aren't ridicuously expensive.
Granted, Im sure there are some animal shelters with good intentions... it's nearly impossible to house all of them on the money/donations they make. The shelter in my area is beyond corrupt, and there are many more like it. It's a shame people will breed animals with the knowledge of shelter animals and strays. :banghead :banghead It makes me so mad.

I have two papillons and bought a male and female. I was going to breed them (once) but responsibly realized that since my male dog is a biter, it was something I would never do. They have since been fixed.

However, I refused to buy my dogs from breeders with spay/neuter contracts. What the hell are they gods gift to breeding.......until it is required that EVERYONE who breeds go through some sort of regulation, then I find it totally unfair to sell me an expensive puppy and tell me I can't breed it....which is exactly what they just did with their own dogs :dunno

I totally see your point, but my boss has being doing this for over 20 years and I am pretty sure he knows the laws....I'm not sure if he did call the Hampton SPCA or not, but we do have a animal cop that comes by all the vet clinics in the area so I'm sure action was taken. As for him coming out and "venting", it wasn't like there we clients in the building, he was just basically letting us know what happened and that he wasn't happy about it at all. The clinic I work at has been in business for a long time, so I am sure if we weren't following the laws, we would have been shut down by now. Also, by our patient rights....if an owner declines treatment, there is nothing we can do as a clinic for that dog. But like I said before, I'm sure some sort of action has been taken.

As for there being already strict laws, then how comes I see it more and more each day? I personally believe that if you are not a registered breeder, you should sign a contract from the place of adoption saying you will have your pets spayed or neutered.

What I meant was, instead of venting about it (implying that he had exhausted all other action), he should have been contacting law enforcement. If a person declines treatment, for whatever reason, they are now violating the law. Even if they can't afford it. Neglect/Abuse is illegal, regardless of the reason.

There's strict laws on drugs, but they're growing in use and selling each day.

People DO sign contracts most of the time. They don't follow them.

I have seen this contracts and it states that if you don't follow through, you will be fined. Then it could possibily lead to jail, it all depends on how stupid the person really is. Plus there are soooo many programs out there that help with the cost that there should be no reason why it shouldn't be done.

I have two papillons and bought a male and female. I was going to breed them (once) but responsibly realized that since my male dog is a biter, it was something I would never do. They have since been fixed.

However, I refused to buy my dogs from breeders with spay/neuter contracts. What the hell are they gods gift to breeding.......until it is required that EVERYONE who breeds go through some sort of regulation, then I find it totally unfair to sell me an expensive puppy and tell me I can't breed it....which is exactly what they just did with their own dogs :dunno

Then you would buy a breeding permit to breed your dogs, after you've completed education courses on the topic. Just because you can watch two animals have sex doesn't mean you should be a breeder. There are a LOT of dangers involved for the community (if they were to get out), housing violations (# of pets, yard appearance, smells, etc..) that impact more than just your home.

Most reputable breeders HAVE gone through extensive education. These aren't the people in question.

I have seen this contracts and it states that if you don't follow through, you will be fined. Then it could possibily lead to jail, it all depends on how stupid the person really is. Plus there are soooo many programs out there that help with the cost that there should be no reason why it shouldn't be done.

Then you advertise those programs to your customers. Have a "pet health fair" at your clinic, advertising these programs and other government-funded things. Words are a poor vessel when action is required.

I have two papillons and bought a male and female. I was going to breed them (once) but responsibly realized that since my male dog is a biter, it was something I would never do. They have since been fixed.

However, I refused to buy my dogs from breeders with spay/neuter contracts. What the hell are they gods gift to breeding.......until it is required that EVERYONE who breeds go through some sort of regulation, then I find it totally unfair to sell me an expensive puppy and tell me I can't breed it....which is exactly what they just did with their own dogs :dunno

I agree. And not all of these puppy breeders are licensed and are gonna sell me a 600 dollar dog and tell me I cant breed it. i dont think so

I have two papillons and bought a male and female. I was going to breed them (once) but responsibly realized that since my male dog is a biter, it was something I would never do. They have since been fixed.

However, I refused to buy my dogs from breeders with spay/neuter contracts. What the hell are they gods gift to breeding.......until it is required that EVERYONE who breeds go through some sort of regulation, then I find it totally unfair to sell me an expensive puppy and tell me I can't breed it....which is exactly what they just did with their own dogs :dunno

I am more for the Spay/Neuter contract from shelters where the animals were already left there, kwim? I don't buy from breeders, but knowing what experience it takes and responsibilty it takes, if I would get an animal from a breeder, I would definetly follow through with the contract. I hope that all made sense because I am getting sleepy.

What I meant was, instead of venting about it (implying that he had exhausted all other action), he should have been contacting law enforcement. If a person declines treatment, for whatever reason, they are now violating the law. Even if they can't afford it. Neglect/Abuse is illegal, regardless of the reason.

There's strict laws on drugs, but they're growing in use and selling each day.

Totally agree....if I had more power in my position, I would have done it while they were still there. But he knows how to handle it without putting too much emotion into it, kwim? I probably would have called the SCPA right away and have them seize the dog from her. This is getting me wondering what did happen....I'll have to follow up with the doc on Monday.

I agree. And not all of these puppy breeders are licensed and are gonna sell me a 600 dollar dog and tell me I cant breed it. i dont think so

And what happens when you don't sell the puppies you've bred? Put them down? Let them loose? Let them stay at your house, likely violating housing policies? What if you can't afford 7 full grown animals? 7 full grown animals who are going to mate with their brother/sisters?

And what happens when you don't sell the puppies you've bred? Put them down? Let them loose? Let them stay at your house, likely violating housing policies? What if you can't afford 7 full grown animals? 7 full grown animals who are going to mate with their brother/sisters?


reduce the damn high prices for one....lol. Thats why I would never buy from a breeder.

reduce the damn high prices for one....lol. Thats why I would never buy from a breeder.

Sure, you can price the animals to move, but you should be weary of who you're selling to. Not everyone who buys a pet has the animals best interests in mind, such as puppy mills, dogfighters, etc. That's why the education in this field is so important - and the price is so steep. No one needs a full blooded, AKC Cocker Spaniel - other than breeders. Your average Joe just wants a pet to fetch the paper and keep the kids entertained.

Dogfighters have money though, they can dish out the high dollars for a dog. Your average joe might want a dog but can't afford to pay 900$ to get the breed they want, even some rescues i've seen prices up around $400 :dunno I think some people are irresponsible when it comes to the welfare of animals and what they are getting into.

Well, I know my aunt and Uncle breed Chi's and they have met a small number of bad breeders since they started. They get their animals the proper medical attention and take care of all of their paperwork too. I know that every time my Aunt runs into someone trying to breed and not doing it proplerly, she ALWAYS trys to get them to take the dog to the vet and take care of the animal. She works at a vet's office, so she can give them a bit of a discount if the issue is money. She's actually turned some of the bad and inexperienced breeders into good ones. I know when we start breeding our Chi, we are DEFINATELY going to make sure that they are taken care of

There is a reason for the no breeding contract. It is because the purebred dog is not up to standards so it is sold as pet quality. Not every animal that is purebred is worthy of breeding. It might be looks, temperament etc. I don't agree with letting any and every person having the chance to breed their animal. It is irresponsible. If you are breeding it shouldn't be to make money but to better breed. If you don't want to pay for animal of breeding quality then obviously you shouldn't be breeding animals. I am not a purebred dog lover by any means. Both of my dogs are rescue dogs and I think that whenever possible people should adopt animals that are homeless rather than going to irresponsible breeders. If you HAVE to have a purebred dog you can get one. Sorry for the long spiel but it irritates me that people think that just because you have a dog you like it should be bred. SPAY AND NEUTER PEOPLE! There are too many homeless dogs already. Puppies chew stuff up and you have to potty train them. You can get an adult dog whose temperance is already known that is potty trained for much less.

I think that there should be some advice or assistance available for training people who want to breed. But I also think that spaying and neutering should be cheaper... it is really expensive.

Mind you this is all coming from a girl who's female is in heat and I am having to keep my dogs separate because it took me years to convince dh that we did not need puppies and now am trying to save to get them fixed.

Are they going to get preggo only by immaculate conception seeing as how they are not allowed in the same time, except when they are outside and then they are closely supervised and not allowed on the same sides of the yard.

I am against breeding just to breed and I wish there were stronger and harsher requirements for it. I have worked in the vet field and have seen MANY MANY things in my time.

My own personal view from what I have seen and read is if you arent planning to breed then you should be forced to spay or neuter your pet. There are far too many unwanted cats and dogs who are put down simply due to no one wanting them because of overpopulation. The state of IL has a wonderful program that I wish more states had. The animal control there allows free spaying and neutering. All you have to do is fill out a form and they mail you a certificate for a vet of your choice that is a participating vet and you bring your animal in. The ONLY thing you pay is for the pain meds and any antibiotics if needed. I wish more states had this. THAT would help MANY low income familys get the procedure done.

From my schooling in this vet I have learned that in alot of cases it can be healthier for the animal to be spayed or neutered. Unspayed female dogs and cats run the risk of Pyometra where spaying can eliminate the chance of this happening. It also helps with alot of things. It can sometimes help with aggression. SOmetimes. Not always. It can help with animals not straying far from home and running the risk of being hit by a car, stolen and the like because they aren't looking for a mate.

Again...this is the type of debate that many will agree or disagree with. In my own personal views tho and from the knowledge I gained by studying and working in the field, that is how I feel. I have no problems with legit breeders. I just wish there were harsher laws in place and more of a way to get more people to spay or neuter their animals...

Then you would buy a breeding permit to breed your dogs, after you've completed education courses on the topic. Just because you can watch two animals have sex doesn't mean you should be a breeder. There are a LOT of dangers involved for the community (if they were to get out), housing violations (# of pets, yard appearance, smells, etc..) that impact more than just your home.

Most reputable breeders HAVE gone through extensive education. These aren't the people in question.

But that's just it.....with the breeders who make you sign away your rights to breed the animal, they are not allowing anyone else to even educate themselves and possibly do it the right way. How would the average person go about starting to breed if every breeder just automatically cornered the market! I don't find the practice fair at all and the breeders that I bought my dogs from were SERIOUS CARING breeders, who also didn't believe in the practice.

Also EVERYONE has to start somewhere....no one is an instant natural at breeding. It is full of trial and error, even for the most experienced. As with everything else in life.....one must start somewhere:wink

Also the whole argument of them breeding "pet quality" dogs versus "show" is moot. Why can't others have the right to breed "pet quality" dogs if they want to, when the breeders are doing the exact same thing!

But that's just it.....with the breeders who make you sign away your rights to breed the animal, they are not allowing anyone else to even educate themselves and possibly do it the right way. How would the average person go about starting to breed if every breeder just automatically cornered the market! I don't find the practice fair at all and the breeders that I bought my dogs from were SERIOUS CARING breeders, who also didn't believe in the practice.

Also EVERYONE has to start somewhere....no one is an instant natural at breeding. It is full of trial and error, even for the most experienced. As with everything else in life.....one must start somewhere:wink

Also the whole argument of them breeding "pet quality" dogs versus "show" is moot. Why can't others have the right to breed "pet quality" dogs if they want to, when the breeders are doing the exact same thing!

Your fear of opening up a new store in a crowded market has hounded (pun intended) the average small business owner since the inception of currency. If you REALLY want to breed animals, you're probably passionate about it, and it doesn't matter if you make money at it. If you're in it for money, you'll likely be willing to move to a different location to sell your wares - just like the common owner today.

There is no law in place that says a breeder has to care about their stock: they simply have to care for it.

UGH we just had thise debate over the Cali Bill...

I both work in the Vet field and have for the last 7 years, and I am also a super active member of an AKC club...

FIRST, I dont know what dog breeders you know hate that the breeders dont care about their pups...

SECONDLY, there is a huge thing for pet quality and show quality...I have a pet quality aussie that was born to champion parents. Eventhough he is fixed, which he should be because he is not show quality, he does the performance events (agility, rally, and obedience).

People shouldnt be allowed to breed pet quality, why? Because you are breeding dogs that have the undesirable jeans of the breed and passing them down the line.

I do not think that people who "think" they have a pure breed with no papers or anything should just breed. People want papers if they are paying for the dog.

There is also usually a price difference between show and pet..Well, any good breeder should do this.

So when my husband and I get our Conformation Dog (show dog)...Whose right is it to tell me I need to fix my dog. I would have the dog to compete in a sport.

The vet should not have came out and vented at all - the vet should have picked up the phone and called the police. If the pitbull was in danger of starvation through malnutrition, the owners could have been fined/arrested as well as breeding without a license. There ARE strict requirements for it, and it sounds like your vet isn't well versed in them. I would recommend contacting a legal repository and getting the information and protocols to safegaurd your place of employment - neglecting to report these crimes makes your boss just as guilty.

I so like how you think!::)

The vet should not have came out and vented at all - the vet should have picked up the phone and called the police. If the pitbull was in danger of starvation through malnutrition, the owners could have been fined/arrested as well as breeding without a license. There ARE strict requirements for it, and it sounds like your vet isn't well versed in them. I would recommend contacting a legal repository and getting the information and protocols to safegaurd your place of employment - neglecting to report these crimes makes your boss just as guilty.

Bravo. thank you. and welcome back.

Simple: Breeders are only allowed to sell fixed animals, save special instances where a breeder sells to another breeder, in which case, the state would impose a breeder's fee. This money would be used to fund these imposed laws.

:agree
i've decided that you are my favorite person here. :P

UGH we just had thise debate over the Cali Bill...

I both work in the Vet field and have for the last 7 years, and I am also a super active member of an AKC club...

FIRST, I dont know what dog breeders you know hate that the breeders dont care about their pups...

SECONDLY, there is a huge thing for pet quality and show quality...I have a pet quality aussie that was born to champion parents. Eventhough he is fixed, which he should be because he is not show quality, he does the performance events (agility, rally, and obedience).

People shouldnt be allowed to breed pet quality, why? Because you are breeding dogs that have the undesirable jeans of the breed and passing them down the line.

I do not think that people who "think" they have a pure breed with no papers or anything should just breed. People want papers if they are paying for the dog.

There is also usually a price difference between show and pet..Well, any good breeder should do this.

So when my husband and I get our Conformation Dog (show dog)...Whose right is it to tell me I need to fix my dog. I would have the dog to compete in a sport.


my whole problem with the "pet" quality and "show" quality thing is that, it's a dog. dogs are man's best friend. how can we breed them for their "purity?" the best dogs i've had are mixed breed dogs. we've got 8 florida brown dogs who are all wonderful, intelligent animals, and a purebred lab who is an idiot (not that i love him any less for it.) "show" quality dogs may be of the purest blood, but in turn, that means that the family tree doesn't fork very much.

i personally will never pay for a dog.

my whole problem with the "pet" quality and "show" quality thing is that, it's a dog. dogs are man's best friend. how can we breed them for their "purity?" the best dogs i've had are mixed breed dogs. we've got 8 florida brown dogs who are all wonderful, intelligent animals, and a purebred lab who is an idiot (not that i love him any less for it.) "show" quality dogs may be of the purest blood, but in turn, that means that the family tree doesn't fork very much.

i personally will never pay for a dog.

Thats your opinion, I am one who competes in the sport of showing.

I didnt pay for either for our aussie. The breeder just gave him to us since we knew other breeders.

In showing, we need the "purest" blood, cause then if we didnt why would there still be shows.

When I was younger my family bred cocker spaniels... They were full bred with papers. Our babies were treated like gold! We did not breed them just to breed them... ALl of our pups were spoken for almost from the day they were born. Our male Dusty was used for Stud a few times, becaue he had such an excellent disposition. We also owned the "parents". We never mass produced litters and never more than 1 in a year. You can be a responsible breeder too.

UGH we just had thise debate over the Cali Bill...

People shouldnt be allowed to breed pet quality, why? Because you are breeding dogs that have the undesirable jeans of the breed and passing them down the line.

I do not think that people who "think" they have a pure breed with no papers or anything should just breed. People want papers if they are paying for the dog.


And to think.....that Cali Bill would have helped with some of this. The same bill you are glad did not pass. Go figure.:nutts

Right because look what Heidi just wrote, so why punish everyone for irresponsible pet owners?

Thats like punishing everyone for people who get speeding tickets.

Simple: Breeders are only allowed to sell fixed animals, save special instances where a breeder sells to another breeder, in which case, the state would impose a breeder's fee. This money would be used to fund these imposed laws.

I worked for a Vet for 7 years.....that's never going to happen & no one will pass a law for that!!! The only places that do that are shelters. The only thing that the breeders can do is decline to sell you a puppy! I lived in BFE for a clinic with 4 vets. We saw a lot of it! Not to say that we didn't turn them into the county anonymously because my boss was the County Vet!!!! We've gone on a lot of "farm calls" for the county that was seizing horses, cattle, etc. Very sad situations!!! Lots of stupid people!! :no

so why punish everyone for irresponsible pet owners?

Thats like punishing everyone for people who get speeding tickets.

The government needs to have strict regulations so that those that ARE irresponsible can be punished....why is it a punishment to have tighter regulations?? Follow the rules and you have no problems.

I believe you stated at the beginning of this thread that the vet was angry and made a statement like 'they only breed for the money'......isn't breeding a money maker???? Why do people breed dogs?? Because they know they can make alot of money. They put a price tag on dogs.....

I didnt say that...someone else did..

But I can give my opinion, not all breeders do it for money. One of the best aussie breeders around does it because her dogs all show or do performance, and she is always at events...She has a wait list of over a year for one of her dogs. Sometimes they just break even due to vet visits and such.

Also at my work we do not support breeding of any kind pleasure or profit.

If your animal has puppies and you bring them in then you get seen that one time and then every animal is denied services until the mother is spayed and you give us the certificate.

I didnt say that...someone else did..

But I can give my opinion, not all breeders do it for money. One of the best aussie breeders around does it because her dogs all show or do performance, and she is always at events...She has a wait list of over a year for one of her dogs. Sometimes they just break even due to vet visits and such.

Sorry I misquoted....I just knew I read that...

But the potential for making money is there...'Sometimes' they break even, but more often then not, they make a profit.

I didnt say that...someone else did..

But I can give my opinion, not all breeders do it for money. One of the best aussie breeders around does it because her dogs all show or do performance, and she is always at events...She has a wait list of over a year for one of her dogs. Sometimes they just break even due to vet visits and such.



I know of a few breeders like that!! Just cause you are a breeder dosen't mean you are out for the money!!!

But its all tied in, if you didnt have awesome breeders then the sport of dogs would go away.

I guess because we are involved in I feel the way I do.

I think that there should be some advice or assistance available for training people who want to breed. But I also think that spaying and neutering should be cheaper... it is really expensive.

Mind you this is all coming from a girl who's female is in heat and I am having to keep my dogs separate because it took me years to convince dh that we did not need puppies and now am trying to save to get them fixed.

Are they going to get preggo only by immaculate conception seeing as how they are not allowed in the same time, except when they are outside and then they are closely supervised and not allowed on the same sides of the yard.

I definetly agree with the training.....haven't really looked around, but maybe offering a "Breeding Program" at a school or something.....that way you know they are serious about it because 1. There might be a small fee and 2. They are taking the time to get educated.

There is a reason for the no breeding contract. It is because the purebred dog is not up to standards so it is sold as pet quality. Not every animal that is purebred is worthy of breeding. It might be looks, temperament etc. I don't agree with letting any and every person having the chance to breed their animal. It is irresponsible. If you are breeding it shouldn't be to make money but to better breed. If you don't want to pay for animal of breeding quality then obviously you shouldn't be breeding animals. I am not a purebred dog lover by any means. Both of my dogs are rescue dogs and I think that whenever possible people should adopt animals that are homeless rather than going to irresponsible breeders. If you HAVE to have a purebred dog you can get one. Sorry for the long spiel but it irritates me that people think that just because you have a dog you like it should be bred. SPAY AND NEUTER PEOPLE! There are too many homeless dogs already. Puppies chew stuff up and you have to potty train them. You can get an adult dog whose temperance is already known that is potty trained for much less.

Just like Bob Barker says at the end of each show "Control the pet population, have your pets spayed or neutered"

But that's just it.....with the breeders who make you sign away your rights to breed the animal, they are not allowing anyone else to even educate themselves and possibly do it the right way. How would the average person go about starting to breed if every breeder just automatically cornered the market! I don't find the practice fair at all and the breeders that I bought my dogs from were SERIOUS CARING breeders, who also didn't believe in the practice.

Also EVERYONE has to start somewhere....no one is an instant natural at breeding. It is full of trial and error, even for the most experienced. As with everything else in life.....one must start somewhere:wink

Also the whole argument of them breeding "pet quality" dogs versus "show" is moot. Why can't others have the right to breed "pet quality" dogs if they want to, when the breeders are doing the exact same thing!

I feel that in order to breed, like it was said here before, you should be trained and educated first....then when you setup your appointment for the breeder to choose dogs/cats, have that paperwork handy that way they know you are educated in what the responsiblity is and that you are serious.

Right because look what Heidi just wrote, so why punish everyone for irresponsible pet owners?

Thats like punishing everyone for people who get speeding tickets.

It only takes a handful of people to make it harder on the rest of us, but think of the animal's welfare. With laws and regulations that protect them, they will have a much better life.

P.S. The speeding thing made me remember that VA just passed a law that if you are speeding 10mph over, you get a $700 fine and if it is 20mph, you get like a $2,100 fine that is paid over 3 months. Craziness!!:screwy

This link definetly made me not ever want to breed:
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding/breeder2.html
I don't think I could handle it. It's not for me.

I do not want to breed myself, thats the one thing keeping me from going for AKC judge.

But my husband and I are very involved in the sport so we dont think everyone should spay and neuter.

I have to say of course this happens, people with a purebred dog (especially a very popular breed) think that selling puppies is lucrative. With that kind of mentality they don't care what is best for the dog, breed quality, or problems with over population.

This is why I liked the idea of that bill they wanted to pass in California. Maybe not exactly how they worded it but there should be higher fees to register unaltered animals, higher penalties for dogs that people try to get under the radar and not register their animals. I do think that possibly a breeder's license should cost more.

This was a big problem in Hawaii because dogs are so popular (especially pits) on the islands. They will breeds mutts and still try to sell them for $350, so many dogs are not fixed. They charge you more to license a dog that isn't fixed. It still isn't enough to deter people though.

Also at my work we do not support breeding of any kind pleasure or profit.

If your animal has puppies and you bring them in then you get seen that one time and then every animal is denied services until the mother is spayed and you give us the certificate.

And does your work offer a low cost spay/neuter program to those that can't always afford it? If not...then they are part of the problem because they turn away people that are trying to get care for thier animals.

Also the whole argument of them breeding "pet quality" dogs versus "show" is moot. Why can't others have the right to breed "pet quality" dogs if they want to, when the breeders are doing the exact same thing!

Breeders are not out to breed "pet qualilty" they are out for the "pure" dog...IMO if your have the money to pay for a pure bred regardless of the fact it's only "pet" quailty then you should make sure you have the money to get the dog fixed. If the breeder wants you to sign a breedng contract, alot of times you won't get your AKC papers until you have a proven spay/neuter certificate.

If people continue to breed mixed/pet quailty dogs whatever you want to call them, then they are Backyard Breeders and do nothing but contribute to the overpopulation of animals we already have. Look at the shelters they are FILLED with those BYB dogs. Breed rescues are filled with those "pet" quality dogs that have personality, health, mental disorders that their owners can't fix so they give them up. There are enough unwanted animals...we should start cracking down on that. This is just NOT dogs...I am talking cats too.

If people just used their brain once in while breeding animals wouldn't be such a problem! But I guess that goes for a lot of things in life...it's too much to ask :lol

IMO it is puppy mills that give most breeders bad names.

No I work for the Army, and we rarely have surgery days. Its not my works rule its a VetCom Policy. Its aso listed on the rules that clients have to sign.

If you own an animal then in my opinion you should be able to afford to spay and neuter it, people shouldnt have to offer cheap services.

Would you all feel differently if you competed in events with your dogs, I would think some would.

Would you all feel differently if you competed in events with your dogs, I would think some would.

NO..I would not. I have competed in agility with one of my dogs before and my parents bred Dobermans when I was growing up. IMO it was more of a PITA to have an intact female in agility than anything else. Not all AKC recognized agility groups require the dog to be intact. Eathdog is one of those.

NO..I would not. I have competed in agility with one of my dogs before and my parents bred Dobermans when I was growing up. IMO it was more of a PITA to have an intact female in agility than anything else. Not all AKC recognized agility groups require the dog to be intact. Eathdog is one of those.

I know this...Thats why I said my aussie does the performance events. He is neutered.

I know this...Thats why I said my aussie does the performance events. He is neutered.

Then why is it such an issue? Why do you keep bringing up the competing in events thing? There are plenty of events you can do with a fixed dog. There are even dog shows with fixed dogs. Sure they are not your big ones - Eukanuba and the like, but they are just as fun. If people have the money to compete in the "big dogs" (excuse the pun) then they should have the money to beg a breeding permit.

We are going round and round on this...and obviously we won't agree.:hehe

I do think all breeders should be held to the strictest of standards and it should be alot more regulated than it is now.

Our first cattle dog we got at an animal shelter, and our
2nd dog & 3rd dog we got from a breeder. Our cattle dog puppy came from a breeder, but the parents were working dogs and they lived on a farm, so its not like they were just there to make puppies and nothing else. KWIM?

Then why is it such an issue? Why do you keep bringing up the competing in events thing? There are plenty of events you can do with a fixed dog. There are even dog shows with fixed dogs. Sure they are not your big ones - Eukanuba and the like, but they are just as fun. If people have the money to compete in the "big dogs" (excuse the pun) then they should have the money to beg a breeding permit.

We are going round and round on this...and obviously we won't agree.:hehe

:tu