What are your thoughts on this?

Do you agree or disagree?

Where do I sign?

It will never happen, especially with the election so close.

Someone update me. I didn't know this was being considered.

im all for it.

Where do I sign?

:yes If it would do any good anywayz. :dunno

The Nation
Sun Jul 22, 4:05 PM ET



The Nation -- On Meet the Press Sunday, Senator Russ Feingold announced that he will be introducing two censure resolutions in the next few days, aimed at holding President Bush, Vice-President Cheney and other administration officials responsible for the damage done to our country--weakening our security by misleading us into the disastrous war in Iraq and shredding our Constitution.

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When Meet the Press host Tim Russert asked, "Isn't this futile?" (sounding every bit like the arbiter of inside-the-beltway realism that he is), Feingold spoke eloquently of the need to set the historical record straight. What message does it send, he asked, if elected representatives do not hold accountable a President and Vice-President who have used mistruths, spin, manipulated intelligence reports and fear to drag this country into a war that is the most colossal foreign policy mistake in our history? What message does it send if we do not hold them accountable for weakening our security through relentless assaults on the rule of law on which our country was founded?

History must therefore record, Feingold argued, that when faced with an administration which doesn't recognize or respect the separation of powers, which perpetually acts as if the executive branch is above the laws of our nation, the people and their elected officials stood up and demanded accountability.

While Feingold believes that Bush and Cheney have committed what our Founding Fathers would have thought of as "high crimes and misdemeanors," at this time he does not believe it is in the nation's best interest to put important issues confronting our country on the back burner to go through months of a divisive impeachment process. That is a view shared my many progressives.

At the same time, however, a growing majority of the country disagrees--in fact, a majority believe Cheney should be impeached. And many progressives as well as conservatives --including Bruce Fein, former Reagan Justice Department official--make a coherent and impassioned case for the value of pursuing the impeachment process. The case for impeachment was given the airtime it richly deserves in an extraordinary July 13 Bill Moyer's Journal, program featuring The Nation's John Nichols in conversation with Fein.

Feingold needs citizens' help to develop and push these resolutions forward. E-mail your representatives, bombard them with your appeals and demands that they stop this White House from shredding the Constitution and, as Feingold puts it, "thumbing their noses at the American people."

We deserve better.

I'm all for it:)

Too late, damage done. The elections are next year...why even bother at this point, just going to cause bundles of money that the country doesn't have, or could better spend on other things.

Thanks for posting that article. I was looking for one online and coudn't find it :)

I think it's a bunch of :poop and I'll just leave it at that.....:handup

Totally disagree.

He should be! Just type Bush breaking the law in google, you will get your info.

Election being close or not, people should still be held accountable for their actions, otherwise it sets a dangerous precedent for future administrations.

ROSEBURG: A group of Roseburg area residents met Friday to form a committee to call on members of Congress to impeach President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.

Group organizers said Bush and Cheney have failed to obey their oaths to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

They said the group was formed to educate people on the impeachment process and to urge representatives in Washington to seek impeachment of the nation’s two highest-ranking officials.

The group plans to meet again on Aug. 3.

Totally disagree.

:yes
It will never happen. It's to close to the next election. If it did happen the VP would take over and I don't think he would change things.

Thanks for posting that article. I was looking for one online and coudn't find it :)

I think it's a bunch of :poop and I'll just leave it at that.....:handup

:yes

I'm with Michelle and Jill on this one.

Too late, damage done. The elections are next year...why even bother at this point, just going to cause bundles of money that the country doesn't have, or could better spend on other things.

:agree

I'm with Michelle and Jill on this one.

i feel special lol

i feel special lol



You are!! :wink

I'm all for it.....it won't happen but I'd be for it

Too late, damage done. The elections are next year...why even bother at this point, just going to cause bundles of money that the country doesn't have, or could better spend on other things.

I wouldn't mind my taxes being spent to hold him accountable for what he has done to our country. I don't think ANY politician should get away with abusing their office, especially in the way that Bush has, just because his term is almost up.

Election being close or not, people should still be held accountable for their actions, otherwise it sets a dangerous precedent for future administrations.

Thank you. If this impeachment doesn't happen, I hope he is at least held responsible after he leaves office. The investigations shouldn't stop just because he isn't the President anymore. The damage he has done certainly won't stop when he isn't President anymore.

Election being close or not, people should still be held accountable for their actions, otherwise it sets a dangerous precedent for future administrations.

I wouldn't mind my taxes being spent to hold him accountable for what he has done to our country. I don't think ANY politician should get away with abusing their office, especially in the way that Bush has, just because his term is almost up.



Thank you. If this impeachment doesn't happen, I hope he is at least held responsible after he leaves office. The investigations shouldn't stop just because he isn't the President anymore. The damage he has done certainly won't stop when he isn't President anymore.


I agree 100% with both of these posts.

I think that our President should be very nervous that the UN does not press war crime charges on him for some of the actions of his administration.

This administration has caused a great deal of harm both here in America and overseas. The ramifications of which will be felt for many years maybe even decades after he has left office. He should be held accountable for all of his actions while in office.

I just have a problem with having our president be the only one that should be held accountable by the UN when there are COUNTLESS other leaders in other countries who commit GENOCIDE and they aren't held accountable. So our president is the only one that is wrong..... :dunno I just don't understand why others are overlooked and our president it put on the chopping block.

I know there have been other leaders that have been persecuted, but quite honestly.. there are FAR WORSE things going on in our world that need to be taken care of.

I just have a problem with having our president be the only one that should be held accountable by the UN when there are COUNTLESS other leaders in other countries who commit GENOCIDE and they aren't held accountable. So our president is the only one that is wrong..... :dunno I just don't understand why others are overlooked and our president it put on the chopping block.

I know there have been other leaders that have been persecuted, but quite honestly.. there are FAR WORSE things going on in our world that need to be taken care of.

:tu :yes :yes :yes

I just have a problem with having our president be the only one that should be held accountable by the UN when there are COUNTLESS other leaders in other countries who commit GENOCIDE and they aren't held accountable. So our president is the only one that is wrong..... :dunno I just don't understand why others are overlooked and our president it put on the chopping block.

I know there have been other leaders that have been persecuted, but quite honestly.. there are FAR WORSE things going on in our world that need to be taken care of.

i agree

I just have a problem with having our president be the only one that should be held accountable by the UN when there are COUNTLESS other leaders in other countries who commit GENOCIDE and they aren't held accountable. So our president is the only one that is wrong..... :dunno I just don't understand why others are overlooked and our president it put on the chopping block.

I know there have been other leaders that have been persecuted, but quite honestly.. there are FAR WORSE things going on in our world that need to be taken care of.

I agree ! and let's not all forget the Clinton years ...... and people want to elect his wife ? Please help OUR country if that happens talk about a said state our country would be in with her president :handup

What a Waste of Taxpayers Money......

No, I would not support impeachment.

OH and I wanted to add... it's really sad that lawmakers have ALL this time to come up with an impeachment bill, but they have SOOOOOOOO many other things that they PROMISED taxpayers and voters they would do while in office and NOTHING is happening. They need to stop playing the blame game and he said it and she said it and I want my Mommy thumbsucking and actually get some work done..... :rolleyes

First of all, I personally hold my President, the President of one of the most powerful and advanced countries in the world, at a bit higher of a standard than I would hold the tribal leader of some third world nation. The saying goes, with power comes responsibility.

Second of all, who says those leaders aren't being held responsible? The former Yugoslavia is being investigated for war crimes by a UN tribunal right now. There is investigations into war crimes and crimes against humanity being dealt with by the UN all the time. So I have no idea where you are getting the idea that Bush would be the only person singled out by the UN. LOL. That isn't true at ALL. Just because we don't hear about it in our media doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Apparently the American media cares more about Paris Hilton. :dunno

I just have a problem with having our president be the only one that should be held accountable by the UN when there are COUNTLESS other leaders in other countries who commit GENOCIDE and they aren't held accountable. So our president is the only one that is wrong..... :dunno I just don't understand why others are overlooked and our president it put on the chopping block.

I know there have been other leaders that have been persecuted, but quite honestly.. there are FAR WORSE things going on in our world that need to be taken care of.
:yes
ITA

Heck NO I do not support impeachment.

OH and I wanted to add... it's really sad that lawmakers have ALL this time to come up with an impeachment bill, but they have SOOOOOOOO many other things that they PROMISED taxpayers and voters they would do while in office and NOTHING is happening. They need to stop playing the blame game and he said it and she said it and I want my Mommy thumbsucking and actually get some work done..... :rolleyes

What exactly isn't happening? I can think of a few things myself... I see a lot of things that lawmakers are TRYING to do but they are blocked by the other party or veto's over and over again. It's not like any lawmaker can think of a bill and BAM, it's a law. There is procedure and it takes a LOT more time when one house of Congress is split and the President keeps vetoing everything. People seem to forget/ignore that.

What exactly isn't happening? I can think of a few things myself... I see a lot of things that lawmakers are TRYING to do but they are blocked by the other party or veto's over and over again. It's not like any lawmaker can think of a bill and BAM, it's a law. There is procedure and it takes a LOT more time when one house of Congress is split and the President keeps vetoing everything. People seem to forget/ignore that.

congress can override a presidential veto

congress can override a presidential veto

Not when one house is split and the deciding vote is the Vice President. You have to have a two thirds vote to override from BOTH houses.

Not when one house is split and the deciding vote is the Vice President. You have to have a two thirds vote to override from BOTH houses.

i'm aware of that ;) thanks for the polisci lesson. my point for saying that is it can be done

I highly doubt it'll ever happen.

But if it did, I'd do a happydance. As long as Cheney didn't replace him. Then I'd probably drown myself. :)

What exactly isn't happening? I can think of a few things myself... I see a lot of things that lawmakers are TRYING to do but they are blocked by the other party or veto's over and over again. It's not like any lawmaker can think of a bill and BAM, it's a law. There is procedure and it takes a LOT more time when one house of Congress is split and the President keeps vetoing everything. People seem to forget/ignore that.



I'd like to think that the MANY hours it would take them to write up an impeachment that wouldn't even get passed could be better spend writing other bills and laws that COULD BE PASSED. They are all so full of themselves up there that NOTHING gets done. They might as well be playing TAG with all the back and forth they do up there. I'm not sorry to say that our country's law making system is FAILING us, because they all have their own self glorifying agenda to complete rather than listening to the American public.

our government is full of pissing contests

And Bush isn't part of that?

And Bush isn't part of that?

did i ever say that he wasn't? NO

As far as I'm concerned impeachment is too good for him.

i'm aware of that ;) thanks for the polisci lesson. my point for saying that is it can be done

Not in this Congress it can't... not with things the way they are right now. We were talking about THIS Congress weren't we? Why the lawmakers in THIS Congress aren't getting anything done? That's what I was referring to, not the Constitutional process by which it CAN be done.

And I won't argue, the government is a bunch of ninny's that are only interested in their own pocketbooks. But, I still think the President should be held accountable for what he has done. If he didn't do anything, then he won't get in any trouble. But how better to show our elected officials that we as a nation expect them to do their damn jobs than hold the man in the highest position in the land responsible for this horrible war and all of the other things he has done. We aren't talking about fibbing about a hummer in the oval office here... we are talking about starting a WAR.

Unless of course you think he has done nothing wrong, just the rest of the government. Then that is another debate entirely. LOL.

i am SOOOOOOOOOOOO stepping out of this

did i ever say that he wasn't? NO

I wasn't talking to you there. I was talking to VinnysGirl. You just snuck in between our posts there... :P

I'm against it completely. Totally wrong.

I wasn't talking to you there. I was talking to VinnysGirl. You just snuck in between our posts there... :P


i figured since we were sort of stating the same point

Not in this Congress it can't... not with things the way they are right now. We were talking about THIS Congress weren't we? Why the lawmakers in THIS Congress aren't getting anything done? That's what I was referring to, not the Constitutional process by which it CAN be done.



It's not that they CAN'T, it's that they WON'T.

i am SOOOOOOOOOOOO stepping out of this

Awww, don't get mad!! I'm not mad. Here, have a :lovesign from me!! :D

It's not that they CAN'T, it's that they WON'T.

:yes

It's not that they CAN'T, it's that they WON'T.

That's exactly what I was saying... They can't because Republicans WON'T. I just don't see the reason in saying that Congress isn't getting anything done, so they have no right to talk impeachement, when the reason that nothing they wanted to do is getting done is because the Republicans in the Senate WON'T vote against party lines or to override a veto. The only people promising change in Congress are the Democrats, and the Republicans are the ones voting against the Democrats and allowing the veto's to stand. So why are the Democrats that want change and try to make change get blamed when the change doesn't happen?

I'm not saying that Democrats are wonderful and Republicans are bad. I am just saying that is what's going on, because it is.

It sounds like Congress needs a hobby! Are they bored and trying to stir the pot? Focus on what needs attention people......

This stuff makes me so pissy! :hissyfit :lol

Where do I sign up?

IT would be CRAP!

It sounds like Congress needs a hobby! Are they bored and trying to stir the pot? Focus on what needs attention people......

This stuff makes me so pissy! :hissyfit :lol

:tu

id sign to have him impeached.in a heart beat.

I don't see the point in doing it now...a little late.

My husband watched this last night and I only caught part of it but wanted to share with you all since I think it pertains to the topic at hand :)

How to create an angry American: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8f9_1185142187

He should be held responsible for his actions, impending election or not.

I say impeach his ass. With the quickness.

My husband watched this last night and I only caught part of it but wanted to share with you all since I think it pertains to the topic at hand :)

How to create an angry American: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8f9_1185142187

I couldn't even watch the whole thing. What a biased crock of nonsense. :rolleyes They admitted they wrong about the weapons of mass destruction, and while I hate that we at war right now, we have good reasons to be. Heaven forbid someone in congress be WRONG :lol

I couldn't even watch the whole thing. What a biased crock of nonsense. :rolleyes They admitted they wrong about the weapons of mass destruction, and while I hate that we at war right now, we have good reasons to be. Heaven forbid someone in congress be WRONG :lol

Ya, they admitted they were wrong, but they also lied :lol

I don't know if they did. To be honest I don't watch the news or keep up with everything that happens as much as I probably should. I just hate that all of a sudden they are starting a pissing contest when they need to focus on the important things. Impeaching him would only cause more of a problem right now, IMO.

Well, I would feel better about them admitting they were wrong if they wouldn't have stopped the investigation into whether they knowingly lied or made a mistake. Why stop the investigation if it was a mistake and not intentional?

Ya, they admitted they were wrong, but they also lied :lol

:yes Admitting they were wrong came a little too late....they know good and well they lied about 'weapons of mass destruction'....they played on the fears of Americans after 9/11.
If you haven't ever seen Farenheit 9/11, I would STRONGLY encourage you to watch it....

:yes Admitting they were wrong came a little too late....they know good and well they lied about 'weapons of mass destruction'....they played on the fears of Americans after 9/11.
If you haven't ever seen Farenheit 9/11, I would STRONGLY encourage you to watch it....

I have to disagree...that movie was a biggest crock of shit I've ever seen :lmao It only shows the opinions and views of ONE person, and one side of things. That man needs a head check!!

That was an awesome video Brandi. Reflects how I feel to a T. I don't get how anyone can ignore that stuff. I don't understand how anyone can not be outraged or at least concerned at the very least about the direction our country is going. It just seems sometimes like people don't understand the gravity of our situation as a nation right now. War has become this blase thing that happens sometimes and there is a much bigger picture. Like how this war is going to effect our country for generations to come. Quite frankly it scares the crap out of me.

I didn't start out with the opinions I hold now. I was a staunch Republican and VERY pro-Bush when this all started. Then it just got to the point where I couldn't ignore what was going on anymore. Once I got over my indignation and stopped being so prideful and stopped making excuses just because I didn't want to be wrong and didn't want to be associated with the other side that I had all of these misconceptions about (like Democrats are bleeding heart liberal pussies and they are going to bring about the downfall of morals in this country with their pro-homosexual pro-abortion ideas, for example)... Once I stopped assuming that everything that comes out of the governments mouth had to be true because they have secret information that no one else has... Once I stopped being stubborn and I started to look at everything in terms of right and wrong, truth and lie, and not Republican and Democrat, I saw things in a way I had never seen them before.

I don't think I have it all figured out or anything, and I am still Republican believe it or not, but I do think I understand how serious this stuff is now a lot more than I did before. I personalize it all now more. I wish more people did.

The whole thing breaks my heart.

I have to disagree...that movie was a biggest crock of shit I've ever seen :lmao It only shows the opinions and views of ONE person, and one side of things. That man needs a head check!!

I don't know...it looked like pretty valid arguments and facts to me...but maybe its just me. To each his/her own opinion.

Wicked, I think a lot of Republicans are starting to feel the way you do.

I have to disagree...that movie was a biggest crock of shit I've ever seen :lmao It only shows the opinions and views of ONE person, and one side of things. That man needs a head check!!

But so many people only see ONE side of things... the OTHER side... the president's side. There's nothing wrong with someone from the opposing side presenting his opinions. Just because Bush is president, that doesn't necessarily mean his way is the right way or only way. I haven't personally seen the movie yet but I won't knock it just because it's from an opposing side that disagrees with the way our country is being ran. I'll have to watch it though, to form definite opinions one way or the other.

That was an awesome video Brandi. Reflects how I feel to a T. I don't get how anyone can ignore that stuff. I don't understand how anyone can not be outraged or at least concerned at the very least about the direction our country is going. It just seems sometimes like people don't understand the gravity of our situation as a nation right now. War has become this blase thing that happens sometimes and there is a much bigger picture. Like how this war is going to effect our country for generations to come. Quite frankly it scares the crap out of me.

I didn't start out with the opinions I hold now. I was a staunch Republican and VERY pro-Bush when this all started. Then it just got to the point where I couldn't ignore what was going on anymore. Once I got over my indignation and stopped being so prideful and stopped making excuses just because I didn't want to be wrong and didn't want to be associated with the other side that I had all of these misconceptions about (like Democrats are bleeding heart liberal pussies and they are going to bring about the downfall of morals in this country with their pro-homosexual pro-abortion ideas, for example)... Once I stopped assuming that everything that comes out of the governments mouth had to be true because they have secret information that no one else has... Once I stopped being stubborn and I started to look at everything in terms of right and wrong, truth and lie, and not Republican and Democrat, I saw things in a way I had never seen them before.

I don't think I have it all figured out or anything, and I am still Republican believe it or not, but I do think I understand how serious this stuff is now a lot more than I did before. I personalize it all now more. I wish more people did.

The whole thing breaks my heart.
I couldn't have said it any better. You basically took all of my thoughts and put them into words for me.

well i dont know much about politics or things like that BUT i fully agree with everything wicked has said in this debate.


with that said i think he should be impeached...i know that it's a long process and there's not much time left in his presidency but geeze something needs to be done!!!!

First of all I think its a TERRIBLE idea to impeach the president, I do not believe that he has done anything blindly wrong.

Now you all do understand that being impeached doesnt mean you removed from office right? The senate would have to tri and remove said person. Bill Clinton was impeached, but never removed from office. So just because Bush might be impeached, does NOT mean he will be removed from office. So in a sence, its pretty much usless to impeach unless you KNOW senate will remove him.

I saw impeach him regardless of the length of time it will take he should take responsiblity for his actions. I don't typically bash our president but I think everything it getting way out of control. Either way the way I see it we have a new president in 08'! Thank the Lord for that!

I'd support it. I find it to be worth the cost.

First of all I think its a TERRIBLE idea to impeach the president, I do not believe that he has done anything blindly wrong.

Now you all do understand that being impeached doesnt mean you removed from office right? The senate would have to tri and remove said person. Bill Clinton was impeached, but never removed from office. So just because Bush might be impeached, does NOT mean he will be removed from office. So in a sence, its pretty much usless to impeach unless you KNOW senate will remove him.

Clinton was never removed from office because he was acquitted. They didn't remove him because his impeachment was essentially reversed.

For the record, I have no opinion one way or the other about the impeachment. I honestly don't know enough about the process or what is involved to give an educated opinion. I do feel that they have done a lot of dancing around the truth and playing on people's fears though. That upsets me.

I saw impeach him regardless of the length of time it will take he should take responsiblity for his actions. I don't typically bash our president but I think everything it getting way out of control. Either way the way I see it we have a new president in 08'! Thank the Lord for that!

:agree

p.s/ Bush is out in a year. leave the man alone. I dont agree with everything he does, but those congressmen/women who have mentioned this are wasting their time. Pass some bills that mean something already!

First of all I think its a TERRIBLE idea to impeach the president, I do not believe that he has done anything blindly wrong.

Now you all do understand that being impeached doesnt mean you removed from office right? The senate would have to tri and remove said person. Bill Clinton was impeached, but never removed from office. So just because Bush might be impeached, does NOT mean he will be removed from office. So in a sence, its pretty much usless to impeach unless you KNOW senate will remove him.

Well, I think taking the country to war based on lies, intentional of not, is WRONG. As a president it is his responsibility (along with Congress and the rest of his administration) to make DAMN SURE we are going to war based on TRUTH. I am mad at all of them, and I think they ALL did wrong. Start with Bush and work your way down for all I care.

And I don't want impeachment to explicitly get Bush out of office. That is coming soon enough with the 2008 elections and a Congress that is not full of Republican lap dogs anymore. I want impeachment because if the President is impeached, he can't stop the investigation into whether or not he knowingly lied about the "intelligence" before the war. If it turns out he really did receive that intelligence and unknowingly led us into war with a country that had no WMD's, then I want to know that. If he lied knowingly to Congress, the UN, and the American people and went to war with iraq knowing full well that there were no weapons, then I want him held accountable. And I want everyone else who knew there were no weapons held accountable. Republican or Democrat. I want to know the TRUTH. THAT is why I want impeachment. It's obvious we aren't going to get it from Bush without a fight since he already stopped the second half of the pre-war intelligence investigation, the part that would have determined if he knew it was a lie. So, we need to, as Americans with rights, demand the truth. Every American, pro-Bush or anti-Bush... Democrat of Republican... conservative or liberal... should want to know the truth, IMO.

That's how I feel about it.

Wicked & Brandi you are in my brain. I agree with just about everything they have said.

Well, I think taking the country to war based on lies, intentional of not, is WRONG. As a president it is his responsibility (along with Congress and the rest of his administration) to make DAMN SURE we are going to war based on TRUTH. I am mad at all of them, and I think they ALL did wrong. Start with Bush and work your way down for all I care.

And I don't want impeachment to explicitly get Bush out of office. That is coming soon enough with the 2008 elections and a Congress that is not full of Republican lap dogs anymore. I want impeachment because if the President is impeached, he can't stop the investigation into whether or not he knowingly lied about the "intelligence" before the war. If it turns out he really did receive that intelligence and unknowingly led us into war with a country that had no WMD's, then I want to know that. If he lied knowingly to Congress, the UN, and the American people and went to war with iraq knowing full well that there were no weapons, then I want him held accountable. And I want everyone else who knew there were no weapons held accountable. Republican or Democrat. I want to know the TRUTH. THAT is why I want impeachment. It's obvious we aren't going to get it from Bush without a fight since he already stopped the second half of the pre-war intelligence investigation, the part that would have determined if he knew it was a lie. So, we need to, as Americans with rights, demand the truth. Every American, pro-Bush or anti-Bush... Democrat of Republican... conservative or liberal... should want to know the truth, IMO.

That's how I feel about it.

:woot you go girl! Can you get outta my head though? :rofl

LMAO, great minds think alike?? Hahaha.

Not in this Congress it can't... not with things the way they are right now. We were talking about THIS Congress weren't we? Why the lawmakers in THIS Congress aren't getting anything done? That's what I was referring to, not the Constitutional process by which it CAN be done.
And I won't argue, the government is a bunch of ninny's that are only interested in their own pocketbooks. But, I still think the President should be held accountable for what he has done. If he didn't do anything, then he won't get in any trouble. But how better to show our elected officials that we as a nation expect them to do their damn jobs than hold the man in the highest position in the land responsible for this horrible war and all of the other things he has done. We aren't talking about fibbing about a hummer in the oval office here... we are talking about starting a WAR.

Unless of course you think he has done nothing wrong, just the rest of the government. Then that is another debate entirely. LOL.


It CAN be done in this congress if they would pull their heads out of their asses. And yes our president has his in his ass sometimes as well. I think we can all collectively agree we do that. What I'm trying to say though. There are MANY more important things to worry about than slapping the presidents hand. Stopping to play the blame game and try to shoot down the president is not going to stop this war!!

I have to disagree...that movie was a biggest crock of shit I've ever seen :lmao It only shows the opinions and views of ONE person, and one side of things. That man needs a head check!!

yup!!! I don't believe a damn thing that man says anyway!

That's exactly what I was saying... They can't because Republicans WON'T. I just don't see the reason in saying that Congress isn't getting anything done, so they have no right to talk impeachement, when the reason that nothing they wanted to do is getting done is because the Republicans in the Senate WON'T vote against party lines or to override a veto. The only people promising change in Congress are the Democrats, and the Republicans are the ones voting against the Democrats and allowing the veto's to stand. So why are the Democrats that want change and try to make change get blamed when the change doesn't happen?

I'm not saying that Democrats are wonderful and Republicans are bad. I am just saying that is what's going on, because it is.


The vote can go both ways.... democrats WON'T vote against their party lines either. It's not all the Republicans fault.

Election being close or not, people should still be held accountable for their actions, otherwise it sets a dangerous precedent for future administrations.

I wouldn't mind my taxes being spent to hold him accountable for what he has done to our country. I don't think ANY politician should get away with abusing their office, especially in the way that Bush has, just because his term is almost up.



Thank you. If this impeachment doesn't happen, I hope he is at least held responsible after he leaves office. The investigations shouldn't stop just because he isn't the President anymore. The damage he has done certainly won't stop when he isn't President anymore.

I agree 100% with both of these posts.

I think that our President should be very nervous that the UN does not press war crime charges on him for some of the actions of his administration.

This administration has caused a great deal of harm both here in America and overseas. The ramifications of which will be felt for many years maybe even decades after he has left office. He should be held accountable for all of his actions while in office.

First of all, I personally hold my President, the President of one of the most powerful and advanced countries in the world, at a bit higher of a standard than I would hold the tribal leader of some third world nation. The saying goes, with power comes responsibility.

Second of all, who says those leaders aren't being held responsible? The former Yugoslavia is being investigated for war crimes by a UN tribunal right now. There is investigations into war crimes and crimes against humanity being dealt with by the UN all the time. So I have no idea where you are getting the idea that Bush would be the only person singled out by the UN. LOL. That isn't true at ALL. Just because we don't hear about it in our media doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Apparently the American media cares more about Paris Hilton. :dunno

:agree Couldn't have said this better myself.

It CAN be done in this congress if they would pull their heads out of their asses. And yes our president has his in his ass sometimes as well. I think we can all collectively agree we do that. What I'm trying to say though. There are MANY more important things to worry about than slapping the presidents hand. Stopping to play the blame game and try to shoot down the president is not going to stop this war!!

I don't completely disagree with you, I really don't. I do think there are a lot of important things that need to be done. I also agree that Congress can override a veto and get things done, my point is that with this Congress it isn't going to happen.

I think the only thing I disagree with you on is how important it is to hold the President accountable. Maybe that disagreement stems from whether or not we think the President did anything intentionally wrong when it came to starting the war in the first place? I don't know. I am just of the belief that with thousands of troops having lost their lives, and 23,000 troops injured (with another 15,000 evacuated from Iraq with so called "non-battle" injuries, whatever that means) not to mention the countless who have to deal with PTSD for the rest of their lives, those troops deserve something more than a "Sorry we were wrong, here are your stop loss orders, keep fighting anyway". KWIM? I personally DO think that the administration lied and should be held accountable for what they did.

For me, it isn't a matter of "it already happened and nothing we do can change it so let's move on and try to fix it". It didn't already happen, it is still happening, and it is happening because someone told a big fat whopper. Not because we were attacked. Not because another country was threatening us. People are dying because someone LIED. I'm sorry but that is a HUGE deal to me, and I want to know how that happened. If it was a murder on the street in America the police would investigate, I don't think it is too much to ask for Congress to investigate exactly what happened when it comes to our troops dying in a foreign country in a war based on something that wasn't even true. How are we supposed to stop it from happening again if we don't find out how it happened in the first place?

I have to disagree...that movie was a biggest crock of shit I've ever seen :lmao It only shows the opinions and views of ONE person, and one side of things. That man needs a head check!!

On a side not, I freaking DESPITE Michael Moore, he makes my tum-tum hurt just thinking about what a biased crock he is.

Back to the topic, I think an impeachment would be nonsense and a waste of tax payers money.

Well, I think taking the country to war based on lies, intentional of not, is WRONG. As a president it is his responsibility (along with Congress and the rest of his administration) to make DAMN SURE we are going to war based on TRUTH. I am mad at all of them, and I think they ALL did wrong. Start with Bush and work your way down for all I care.

And I don't want impeachment to explicitly get Bush out of office. That is coming soon enough with the 2008 elections and a Congress that is not full of Republican lap dogs anymore. I want impeachment because if the President is impeached, he can't stop the investigation into whether or not he knowingly lied about the "intelligence" before the war. If it turns out he really did receive that intelligence and unknowingly led us into war with a country that had no WMD's, then I want to know that. If he lied knowingly to Congress, the UN, and the American people and went to war with iraq knowing full well that there were no weapons, then I want him held accountable. And I want everyone else who knew there were no weapons held accountable. Republican or Democrat. I want to know the TRUTH. THAT is why I want impeachment. It's obvious we aren't going to get it from Bush without a fight since he already stopped the second half of the pre-war intelligence investigation, the part that would have determined if he knew it was a lie. So, we need to, as Americans with rights, demand the truth. Every American, pro-Bush or anti-Bush... Democrat of Republican... conservative or liberal... should want to know the truth, IMO.

That's how I feel about it.

i couldnt agree with you more!!! well said!!! :clap

The vote can go both ways.... democrats WON'T vote against their party lines either. It's not all the Republicans fault.

Yeah, but the Republicans aren't the ones pushing for the end of the war. LOL. A FEW of them are, but a vast majority of them aren't.

If it was like a year or two ago, well then Hell Yea!! Impeach his ass!!! But now, what's the point!!!?? :dunno

OOps wrong thread

I don't completely disagree with you, I really don't. I do think there are a lot of important things that need to be done. I also agree that Congress can override a veto and get things done, my point is that with this Congress it isn't going to happen.

I think the only thing I disagree with you on is how important it is to hold the President accountable. Maybe that disagreement stems from whether or not we think the President did anything intentionally wrong when it came to starting the war in the first place? I don't know. I am just of the belief that with thousands of troops having lost their lives, and 23,000 troops injured (with another 15,000 evacuated from Iraq with so called "non-battle" injuries, whatever that means) not to mention the countless who have to deal with PTSD for the rest of their lives, those troops deserve something more than a "Sorry we were wrong, here are your stop loss orders, keep fighting anyway". KWIM? I personally DO think that the administration lied and should be held accountable for what they did.

For me, it isn't a matter of "it already happened and nothing we do can change it so let's move on and try to fix it". It didn't already happen, it is still happening, and it is happening because someone told a big fat whopper. Not because we were attacked. Not because another country was threatening us. People are dying because someone LIED. I'm sorry but that is a HUGE deal to me, and I want to know how that happened. If it was a murder on the street in America the police would investigate, I don't think it is too much to ask for Congress to investigate exactly what happened when it comes to our troops dying in a foreign country in a war based on something that wasn't even true. How are we supposed to stop it from happening again if we don't find out how it happened in the first place?

Just so you know, I'm not trying to start an arguement with you. I just want to know and understand where you are coming from. I can't talk a lot about when Clinton was in office because I was young. But I know bits and pieces, and I know he got wind of what might happen (9/11) but did NOTHING about it.

Bush came in and had to clean up his mess and now he has to take the brunt of everyones mistakes. 9/11 came around, they attacked us, the president and others had a good reason to suspect they may have weapons of mass destruction and worse was to come. Troops went over there to defend our country, nothing was found, they admitted they were wrong, but their nation took a huge fall and we had to stay because Sadaam kept running from us and so on..... There are bigger reasons why we are there. I am not saying I agree with all of them, because I don't. But there is a bigger picture as to why we have troops there. We aren't just killing people left and right, we are doing some good for their country and ours.

I honestly have faith in what the bigger people know and we don't. We don't know a fraction of what they know, and we never will. That's just the way our gov't works. If they thought we could pull our troops out right now and our country would be safe, I think they would. We hear what the MEDIA tells us. That is all just an opinion though. I think Bush has done some wrong, but find me a president that hasn't. He's human. It's horrible that our troops are having to put their lives on the line right now, but the majority of them believe we need to be over there.

Just so you know, I'm not trying to start an arguement with you. I just want to know and understand where you are coming from. I can't talk a lot about when Clinton was in office because I was young. But I know bits and pieces, and I know he got wind of what might happen (9/11) but did NOTHING about it.

Bush came in and had to clean up his mess and now he has to take the brunt of everyones mistakes. 9/11 came around, they attacked us, the president and others had a good reason to suspect they may have weapons of mass destruction and worse was to come. Troops went over there to defend our country, nothing was found, they admitted they were wrong, but their nation took a huge fall and we had to stay because Sadaam kept running from us and so on..... There are bigger reasons why we are there. I am not saying I agree with all of them, because I don't. But there is a bigger picture as to why we have troops there. We aren't just killing people left and right, we are doing some good for their country and ours.

I honestly have faith in what the bigger people know and we don't. We don't know a fraction of what they know. If they thought we could pull our troops out right now and our country would be safe, I think they would. We hear what the MEDIA tells us. That is all just an opinion though. I think Bush has done some wrong, but find me a president that hasn't. He's human. It's horrible that our troops are having to put their lives on the line right now, but the majority of them believe we need to be over there.


:yes

there was a lot of miscommunication going on when Bush finally got into office. Clinton knew that things were happening and that Al Quada was starting to stir up plots for a large scale attack.

What's scary to me, is how the next person is going to handle everything. It's down right freaking SCARY!

I don't think our government needs to be focusing at all on why we got into war at this time. I think they need to conjure up a strong exiting strategy. We are fighting a war with a country that WANTS to die...well, the ones fighting anywhoo. I would LOVE answers but right now is not the time to play the blame game. We need to get our men outta there, and then figure out who did what and why. They can still investigate him after he is out. We don't have the time or the money right now to sit and trial Bush. He can be held accountable after we get our men home safely..

What's scary to me, is how the next person is going to handle everything. It's down right freaking SCARY!

Bran and I talk about this all the time. IT really is scary..neither ne of us even has a suggestion for who should do what next term..I just know who I don't want to handle it haha:D

i'm petrified if we get some namby pamby pres in there in 08 who says okay all the troops are coming home now. my god can you imagine what the terrorists will do to us or our our embassies around the world>?

that is exactly my fear! I am afraid they'll just rip them outta there and try to warp our national security..that wouldn't fly

i'm petrified if we get some namby pamby pres in there in 08 who says okay all the troops are coming home now. my god can you imagine what the terrorists will do to us or our our embassies around the world>?

It's a scary thought :no

Just so you know, I'm not trying to start an arguement with you. I just want to know and understand where you are coming from. I can't talk a lot about when Clinton was in office because I was young. But I know bits and pieces, and I know he got wind of what might happen (9/11) but did NOTHING about it.

Bush came in and had to clean up his mess and now he has to take the brunt of everyones mistakes. 9/11 came around, they attacked us, the president and others had a good reason to suspect they may have weapons of mass destruction and worse was to come. Troops went over there to defend our country, nothing was found, they admitted they were wrong, but their nation took a huge fall and we had to stay because Sadaam kept running from us and so on..... There are bigger reasons why we are there. I am not saying I agree with all of them, because I don't. But there is a bigger picture as to why we have troops there. We aren't just killing people left and right, we are doing some good for their country and ours.

I honestly have faith in what the bigger people know and we don't. We don't know a fraction of what they know, and we never will. That's just the way our gov't works. If they thought we could pull our troops out right now and our country would be safe, I think they would. We hear what the MEDIA tells us. That is all just an opinion though. I think Bush has done some wrong, but find me a president that hasn't. He's human. It's horrible that our troops are having to put their lives on the line right now, but the majority of them believe we need to be over there.

I don't mind explaining my point of view... ;)

First of all, I don't think Clinton was perfect. I also know that while Clinton may have missed the boat with Osama (he did send people after Osama though, so he didn't just completely ignore the problem (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm)), so did Bush. There is proof that Bush got a memo from the CIA warning of the planned attacks on the WTC back on August 6th of 2001. The White House never informed anyone else of this (telling the FAA would have been nice) and denied knowing anything about a possible attack beforehand. So, a lot of people could have done better. Really though, all of that aside, 9/11 doesn't have anything to do with Iraq. It has been proven and administration officials including the President have admitted that they had nothing to do with each other. So, I am not quite understanding how you are justifying the President having reason to believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction based on what happened on 9/11. The 9/11 commission found no evidence and also proved through White House and intelligence records that the administration found no evidence that Iraq and al-Qaeda were tied together, and was actually told the opposite by the CIA in August of 2002. The administration has never been able to back up the assertion that Iraq and 9/11 were linked. Also, there is no evidence to support that Al Qaeda was operating in Iraq before we went in and destabilized the country.

That's what scares me the most. Now we went to war in the middle east without being provoked and pissed off a lot of extremists in that part of the world even more. By doing so, we destabilized a really large country central to a region full of extremist nut jobs that want to jihad against the western world and created an environment for them to move in and not just set up shop, but kill Americans in the process. And now, not only are the bastards who attacked us in the first place still out there probably planning something else, but we handed them a whole new country with all of it's resources on a silver platter to use to regroup and strengthen. And according to a recent report from our own intelligence agencies, Al Qaeda is doing just that and are currently at their strongest levels since a few months prior to 9/11. So what exactly has this war done to make us safer?

I don't have faith in what the bigger people tell us because it has been proven time and time again that the bigger people who got us into this war lied to us. The reports coming out refuting everything that the administration used as justification for this war aren't coming from the media, they are coming from top level intelligence agencies here in the US and across the globe. Those agencies have the same access if not more access to intelligence that the administration does. I have lost all faith that the government is acting in our best interest in Iraq. It has been proven to me otherwise. My husband was in an intel unit in the Army from Jan 1999 until January 2004. He had top secret security clearance and handled classified documents pre-9/11 all the way through the first year of the war. He won't tell me what he knows, but he will tell me that what he knows is the reason why he feels the way he does about this war and this administration. I trust my husband and I believe the information that can be backed up by more than just one source... the administration is not a good enough single source for me anymore.

I hope that helped explain where I am coming from! I try not to babble but sometimes I get ahead of myself and it turns into a novel. :P I want to make very clear though, that I think that no matter what the administration or Congress or the government does, the troops are doing a phenomenal job over there. They are doing the best they can, politics aside, and I would never think any different. I view what the troops do on a daily basis as something COMPLETELY separate from what the government does.

I appreciate you explaining without being snotty :lol Sometimes these talks turn into that. :)

I will say I don't agree with anything you said, but that's ok because we are all entitled to our own opinon. I would like to know where you get your info though. I'm not being rude, I'm being honest. Because you said somethings I have never heard. It could be because I'm not the best at reading the paper or watching the news. :dunno

I don't about you, I just want my husband to come home! LOL

I appreciate you explaining without being snotty :lol Sometimes these talks turn into that. :)

I will say I don't agree with anything you said, but that's ok because we are all entitled to our own opinon. I would like to know where you get your info though. I'm not being rude, I'm being honest. Because you said somethings I have never heard. It could be because I'm not the best at reading the paper or watching the news. :dunno

I will wrangle up the links for you tomorrow. My husband is begging me for some computer time. LOL.

And no prob! I love talking about this stuff without all the emotions and defensiveness involved. It feels like you get so much more out of a debate if you can walk away understanding each other because let's face it, debate hardly ever actually changes someone's opinion. LOL. I am always curious to know why people believe what they believe. Makes it a lot easier to respect their opinions when you understand where they are coming from. Most of all for me, I just want everyone to have their families home safe and in tact. Family is the most important thing in the world to me!

I have a hard time believing that there were no WMD's in Iraq. In the time between the threat and the time that the UN actually sent inspectors in, 3 months passed. You don't think that Sadaam and his little exterminating posse couldn't have moved them??? Ummm yeah.... I can guarantee those thigns were moved in about 48 hours. I wouldn't doubt it past the end of my nose.

I also think that if the terrorist that are in OUR COUNTRY... working businesses in OUR COUNTRY... and sending that money from OUR COUNTRY to Iraq and Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, and Iran for the terrorist to have money to fund their little anti-semantic party then I can pretty much guarantee that Sadaam had a way of filtering money into Al Qaeda to do his dirty work while he was in power.

For us to sit here and believe that a bunch of GOVERNMENT officials that did this investigation told us the TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH when so many of them up there lie to us everyday is trusting them a bit much.

We can trust the 9/11 commission, but we can't trust the administration... that's like trusting your enemy and your WORST enemy. Not a good plan to me. Doubt them all, always. The CIA, FBI, Homeland security, FOX, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and COUNTLESS other organizations, people, news stations, and agencies lie to us EVERYDAY.. they keep secrets, they tell lies, they tell the truth to send us in the right direction and then lie to us to send us in the wrong direction and yada yada yada.....

it's an endless cycle of mindgames and control. They have all of us on such a short leash. One person can get in front of a camera (Michael Moore) and create an UPROAR against our countries administration. That's pretty sad. One person, who quite honestly talks out of his ass, can give his personal opinion about something that we all have VERY emotional states of opinion on and he can create mass hatred and doubt in all of us. Quite honestly that scares me.


I'm really wondering WHERE everyone is getting all their information....??? How much can you REALLY trust a website???? How do you know it's not some crackhead who had a lightbulb go off all of a sudden and decided to create a website with his theory and tried to call it fact.

How do we know that the 9/11 commission isn't a bunch of bullshit that they created to make us HATE the war so that we didn't look like a bunch of blood monkeys going after countries all over the world???? I mean seriously....

I could really honestly completely CARE LESS about Bush being up there. The next president isn't going to be able to just PULL our troops out of Iraq. It's not going to happen. Some other threat will come in... some intelligence and it'll strike fear into the new administration... the generals and admirals will call for more troops again... they will ask for more money... congress will attach more pork to the bills to allow for more money to go into the defense budget to support the troops and once again the American people and troops will be the ones paying the price.

Our country won't change until we as an American people actually UNITE to make things change, but that won't happen because our media and government leaders have us SOOOOOOO brainwashed and completely backwards that we don't know whats right or wrong or fact or fiction.

it's an endless cycle of mindgames and control. They have all of us on such a short leash. One person can get in front of a camera (Michael Moore) and create an UPROAR against our countries administration. That's pretty sad. One person, who quite honestly talks out of his ass, can give his personal opinion about something that we all have VERY emotional states of opinion on and he can create mass hatred and doubt in all of us. Quite honestly that scares me.


The reason this is even possible is because our president doesn't talk to us like normal human beings. He leaves so much room for doubt. He has not just a good job AT ALL of explaining exactly why we are there and assuring us that it's the right decision. He's basically danced all around the subject and confused everyone to the point of people just desperately wanting solid answers from SOMEONE, even if it's Michael Moore.

I know that everyone says that we should cut Bush some slack for not being a good speaker (supposedly everyone has their downfalls blah blah blah) but I really don't think so, honestly. If it were one of you who were speaking to me, of course I'd cut you some slack... you're an every day person and you do not have the responsibility of leading the entire united states. When you are our COUNTRY LEADER, the be all - know all, the biggest wig of them all, the person who can dictate how our entire country is ran, including whether we go to war or not, there is NO EXCUSE for not being able to speak without reading a fully written script. I know this seems a little off the subject but it's really not that off the subject for ME. My point is that all of the reading he's done and the blah blah blah that you hear come out of his mouth- it's confusing as hell and it doesn't sound the least bit sincere. So, how are people supposed to trust a damned thing he says when the facts and stories are ALREADY fishy? Know what I mean?

He hasn't taken a true initiative to educate the American people about why we are REALLY in this war. Rumors fly, he comes on tv and reads a fully written script that no one can quite understand or believe, then he expects everyone to just be okay with it? I don't think so!

he needs to learn to speak from his heart when speaking to the MILLIONS of people who follow him and look to him for guidance and facts and reasons and answers. He needs to be clear and speak like he really means what he says.... like he really, truly believes in what he's telling us. Michael Moore does that, which is one of the reasons why so many people are quick to believe him. The American people are just dying (literally :no ) for answers. Not scripted answers, but answers from our president's heart about why he thinks this is best for us as a country. The fact is, we will NEVER get that. He will never talk to us without having to read from a fully written script. And that's just sad.

How do we know that the 9/11 commission isn't a bunch of bullshit that they created to make us HATE the war so that we didn't look like a bunch of blood monkeys going after countries all over the world???? I mean seriously....

On the flip side though, the "facts" from our president and administration have turned out to be full of bullshit also. So, the same goes for both sides.



Our country won't change until we as an American people actually UNITE to make things change, but that won't happen because our media and government leaders have us SOOOOOOO brainwashed and completely backwards that we don't know whats right or wrong or fact or fiction.

The American people have TRIED to unite and the polls VERY clearly show that the American people want OUT OF THIS WAR. So, what are we supposed to do? What power do you think we have right now to unite and actually get something done? Very little, IMO.

I have a hard time believing that there were no WMD's in Iraq. In the time between the threat and the time that the UN actually sent inspectors in, 3 months passed. You don't think that Sadaam and his little exterminating posse couldn't have moved them??? Ummm yeah.... I can guarantee those thigns were moved in about 48 hours. I wouldn't doubt it past the end of my nose.

I also think that if the terrorist that are in OUR COUNTRY... working businesses in OUR COUNTRY... and sending that money from OUR COUNTRY to Iraq and Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, and Iran for the terrorist to have money to fund their little anti-semantic party then I can pretty much guarantee that Sadaam had a way of filtering money into Al Qaeda to do his dirty work while he was in power.

For us to sit here and believe that a bunch of GOVERNMENT officials that did this investigation told us the TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH when so many of them up there lie to us everyday is trusting them a bit much.

We can trust the 9/11 commission, but we can't trust the administration... that's like trusting your enemy and your WORST enemy. Not a good plan to me. Doubt them all, always. The CIA, FBI, Homeland security, FOX, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and COUNTLESS other organizations, people, news stations, and agencies lie to us EVERYDAY.. they keep secrets, they tell lies, they tell the truth to send us in the right direction and then lie to us to send us in the wrong direction and yada yada yada.....

it's an endless cycle of mindgames and control. They have all of us on such a short leash. One person can get in front of a camera (Michael Moore) and create an UPROAR against our countries administration. That's pretty sad. One person, who quite honestly talks out of his ass, can give his personal opinion about something that we all have VERY emotional states of opinion on and he can create mass hatred and doubt in all of us. Quite honestly that scares me.


I'm really wondering WHERE everyone is getting all their information....??? How much can you REALLY trust a website???? How do you know it's not some crackhead who had a lightbulb go off all of a sudden and decided to create a website with his theory and tried to call it fact.

How do we know that the 9/11 commission isn't a bunch of bullshit that they created to make us HATE the war so that we didn't look like a bunch of blood monkeys going after countries all over the world???? I mean seriously....

I could really honestly completely CARE LESS about Bush being up there. The next president isn't going to be able to just PULL our troops out of Iraq. It's not going to happen. Some other threat will come in... some intelligence and it'll strike fear into the new administration... the generals and admirals will call for more troops again... they will ask for more money... congress will attach more pork to the bills to allow for more money to go into the defense budget to support the troops and once again the American people and troops will be the ones paying the price.

Our country won't change until we as an American people actually UNITE to make things change, but that won't happen because our media and government leaders have us SOOOOOOO brainwashed and completely backwards that we don't know whats right or wrong or fact or fiction.


I agree with most of what you said. :yes

On the flip side though, the "facts" from our president and administration have turned out to be full of bullshit also. So, the same goes for both sides.






:yes

I have a hard time believing that there were no WMD's in Iraq. In the time between the threat and the time that the UN actually sent inspectors in, 3 months passed. You don't think that Sadaam and his little exterminating posse couldn't have moved them??? Ummm yeah.... I can guarantee those thigns were moved in about 48 hours. I wouldn't doubt it past the end of my nose.

I also think that if the terrorist that are in OUR COUNTRY... working businesses in OUR COUNTRY... and sending that money from OUR COUNTRY to Iraq and Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, and Iran for the terrorist to have money to fund their little anti-semantic party then I can pretty much guarantee that Sadaam had a way of filtering money into Al Qaeda to do his dirty work while he was in power.

For us to sit here and believe that a bunch of GOVERNMENT officials that did this investigation told us the TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH when so many of them up there lie to us everyday is trusting them a bit much.

We can trust the 9/11 commission, but we can't trust the administration... that's like trusting your enemy and your WORST enemy. Not a good plan to me. Doubt them all, always. The CIA, FBI, Homeland security, FOX, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and COUNTLESS other organizations, people, news stations, and agencies lie to us EVERYDAY.. they keep secrets, they tell lies, they tell the truth to send us in the right direction and then lie to us to send us in the wrong direction and yada yada yada.....

it's an endless cycle of mindgames and control. They have all of us on such a short leash. One person can get in front of a camera (Michael Moore) and create an UPROAR against our countries administration. That's pretty sad. One person, who quite honestly talks out of his ass, can give his personal opinion about something that we all have VERY emotional states of opinion on and he can create mass hatred and doubt in all of us. Quite honestly that scares me.


I'm really wondering WHERE everyone is getting all their information....??? How much can you REALLY trust a website???? How do you know it's not some crackhead who had a lightbulb go off all of a sudden and decided to create a website with his theory and tried to call it fact.

How do we know that the 9/11 commission isn't a bunch of bullshit that they created to make us HATE the war so that we didn't look like a bunch of blood monkeys going after countries all over the world???? I mean seriously....

I could really honestly completely CARE LESS about Bush being up there. The next president isn't going to be able to just PULL our troops out of Iraq. It's not going to happen. Some other threat will come in... some intelligence and it'll strike fear into the new administration... the generals and admirals will call for more troops again... they will ask for more money... congress will attach more pork to the bills to allow for more money to go into the defense budget to support the troops and once again the American people and troops will be the ones paying the price.

Our country won't change until we as an American people actually UNITE to make things change, but that won't happen because our media and government leaders have us SOOOOOOO brainwashed and completely backwards that we don't know whats right or wrong or fact or fiction.

I love everything you just said.:yes :clap You can put it in words so much better than me. I suck at it.:)

I just wanted to add: w3hat makes everyone think the next person will do a better job? If someone else comes in, pulls everyone out and then all hell breaks loose is Bush still going to get the finger pointed at him? Just wondering.

Just so you know, I'm not trying to start an arguement with you. I just want to know and understand where you are coming from. I can't talk a lot about when Clinton was in office because I was young. But I know bits and pieces, and I know he got wind of what might happen (9/11) but did NOTHING about it.

Bush came in and had to clean up his mess and now he has to take the brunt of everyones mistakes. 9/11 came around, they attacked us, the president and others had a good reason to suspect they may have weapons of mass destruction and worse was to come. Troops went over there to defend our country, nothing was found, they admitted they were wrong, but their nation took a huge fall and we had to stay because Sadaam kept running from us and so on..... There are bigger reasons why we are there. I am not saying I agree with all of them, because I don't. But there is a bigger picture as to why we have troops there. We aren't just killing people left and right, we are doing some good for their country and ours.

I honestly have faith in what the bigger people know and we don't. We don't know a fraction of what they know, and we never will. That's just the way our gov't works. If they thought we could pull our troops out right now and our country would be safe, I think they would. We hear what the MEDIA tells us. That is all just an opinion though. I think Bush has done some wrong, but find me a president that hasn't. He's human. It's horrible that our troops are having to put their lives on the line right now, but the majority of them believe we need to be over there.

I pretty much agree with you. I wonder sometimes what would another President have done differently at the time? Americans wanted answers, wanted justice, so we got Iraq and now we don't like it.
I do think WMDs were moved across borders, they were there. And WMDs aside there are tons and tons of other weapons hidden around that country, enough to do severe damage to other countries (such as Israel) and yes I know this for a fact... my husband was responsible for "disposing" of tons of it.
And for Al Qaeda... I saw the report saying they are strong as ever, but I know in Iraq (again from my husband's personal account of activities, I believe him, but you can choose not to) they are having no time to settle at all and train. The Army is chasing them out, sometimes killing them in the process, and then other forces blow their houses up, destroy all their bombs that were already made. What would happen if we weren't there trying to smoke them all out of Iraq? I dunno. (And complete sidenote, those guys drink so dang much and do so much heroin they are completely off their rockers. Houses full of drugs!) I think Al Qaeda is a huge reason we are there.
Anyway, point of my ramblings.. I don't think the administration lied about their intentions going there, and I don't think I'm educated enough to make such a decision as impeachment and if we should be in Iraq... I think there is more that the man knows, and I'm ok with that. I try to have faith that the leaders make decisions best for our safety. How different would our lives be if we had never gone there? Who knows, but I find it too late to think about these things. I think Congress should be more concerned about the present and the future, deciding what will be done with where we are now.
I think Bush is sincere. I would never want to be in his shoes, going to bed knowing that so many lives rest on you and your decisions. I have more problem with someone like Clinton who knows something is coming and does nothing at all.
And I'm done :lol

I don't think our government needs to be focusing at all on why we got into war at this time. I think they need to conjure up a strong exiting strategy. We are fighting a war with a country that WANTS to die...well, the ones fighting anywhoo. I would LOVE answers but right now is not the time to play the blame game. We need to get our men outta there, and then figure out who did what and why. They can still investigate him after he is out. We don't have the time or the money right now to sit and trial Bush. He can be held accountable after we get our men home safely..

See, I agree with this. I don't disagree that the truth needs to be known on how this got started and I don't disagree with fact that the elected officials should know that we feel we deserve the truth. But the priority right now needs to be putting an end to this war.

Also, as a side note because i can't help myself - please don't use Michael Moore's movies as your source of information. His movies are just a bunch of propaganda. He picks and chooses what information he wants you to see and puts his own spin on everything. But for some reason people think his word is the truth. It's weird.

I pretty much agree with you. I wonder sometimes what would another President have done differently at the time? Americans wanted answers, wanted justice, so we got Iraq and now we don't like it. I do think WMDs were moved across borders, they were there. And WMDs aside there are tons and tons of other weapons hidden around that country, enough to do severe damage to other countries (such as Israel) and yes I know this for a fact... my husband was responsible for "disposing" of tons of it.
And for Al Qaeda... I saw the report saying they are strong as ever, but I know in Iraq (again from my husband's personal account of activities, I believe him, but you can choose not to) they are having no time to settle at all and train. The Army is chasing them out, sometimes killing them in the process, and then other forces blow their houses up, destroy all their bombs that were already made. What would happen if we weren't there trying to smoke them all out of Iraq? I dunno. (And complete sidenote, those guys drink so dang much and do so much heroin they are completely off their rockers. Houses full of drugs!) I think Al Qaeda is a huge reason we are there.
Anyway, point of my ramblings.. I don't think the administration lied about their intentions going there, and I don't think I'm educated enough to make such a decision as impeachment and if we should be in Iraq... I think there is more that the man knows, and I'm ok with that. I try to have faith that the leaders make decisions best for our safety. How different would our lives be if we had never gone there? Who knows, but I find it too late to think about these things. I think Congress should be more concerned about the present and the future, deciding what will be done with where we are now.
I think Bush is sincere. I would never want to be in his shoes, going to bed knowing that so many lives rest on you and your decisions. I have more problem with someone like Clinton who knows something is coming and does nothing at all.
And I'm done :lol

i agree so much with the bolded part. how can anyone sit here and say that wrong decisions were made in the beginning when we as the american public don't have all the information? and saying that we should have all the information that the president and government is silly.

See, I agree with this. I don't disagree that the truth needs to be known on how this got started and I don't disagree with fact that the elected officials should know that we feel we deserve the truth. But the priority right now needs to be putting an end to this war.

Also, as a side note because i can't help myself - please don't use Michael Moore's movies as your source of information. His movies are just a bunch of propaganda. He picks and chooses what information he wants you to see and puts his own spin on everything. But for some reason people think his word is the truth. It's weird.

yep and he's being sued by a vet because of it.

yep and he's being sued by a vet because of it.

Lol, I'd definitely consider myself more of a liberal.... but Michael Moore is a piece of work... his propoganda is counterproductive to the liberal agenda, imo. :)

Impeach Bush? HAHAHAHA! You're kidding right? The American people voted for him, we have to live with our choice. BTW, when you get right down to it WE THE PEOPLE control the military through Congress. If you regret voting for Bush, then tough shit. It's called living with the consequences of your choices.

Impeach Bush? HAHAHAHA! You're kidding right? The American people voted for him, we have to live with our choice. BTW, when you get right down to it WE THE PEOPLE control the military through Congress. If you regret voting for Bush, then tough shit. It's called living with the consequences of your choices.

What about the people that didn't vote for him. ;)

What about the people that didn't vote for him. ;)

Keep voting.

OMG girls you have given me SO MUCH to respond to and I don't have time to do it all! LOL. I will get to it later but for now I will say that I agree with Brandi. :P

The reason this is even possible is because our president doesn't talk to us like normal human beings. He leaves so much room for doubt. He has not just a good job AT ALL of explaining exactly why we are there and assuring us that it's the right decision. He's basically danced all around the subject and confused everyone to the point of people just desperately wanting solid answers from SOMEONE, even if it's Michael Moore.

I know that everyone says that we should cut Bush some slack for not being a good speaker (supposedly everyone has their downfalls blah blah blah) but I really don't think so, honestly. If it were one of you who were speaking to me, of course I'd cut you some slack... you're an every day person and you do not have the responsibility of leading the entire united states. When you are our COUNTRY LEADER, the be all - know all, the biggest wig of them all, the person who can dictate how our entire country is ran, including whether we go to war or not, there is NO EXCUSE for not being able to speak without reading a fully written script. I know this seems a little off the subject but it's really not that off the subject for ME. My point is that all of the reading he's done and the blah blah blah that you hear come out of his mouth- it's confusing as hell and it doesn't sound the least bit sincere. So, how are people supposed to trust a damned thing he says when the facts and stories are ALREADY fishy? Know what I mean?

He hasn't taken a true initiative to educate the American people about why we are REALLY in this war. Rumors fly, he comes on tv and reads a fully written script that no one can quite understand or believe, then he expects everyone to just be okay with it? I don't think so!

he needs to learn to speak from his heart when speaking to the MILLIONS of people who follow him and look to him for guidance and facts and reasons and answers. He needs to be clear and speak like he really means what he says.... like he really, truly believes in what he's telling us. Michael Moore does that, which is one of the reasons why so many people are quick to believe him. The American people are just dying (literally :no ) for answers. Not scripted answers, but answers from our president's heart about why he thinks this is best for us as a country. The fact is, we will NEVER get that. He will never talk to us without having to read from a fully written script. And that's just sad.

Michael Moore doesn't have a leg to stand on!! Everything he uses comes from the media and his asshole. Just because the president doesn't explain things well, as some people say, doesn't mean they should turn around and listen to some left wing nutjob. :no I'm not attacking you Brandi, I just can't stand that man and anything that comes out of his mouth. Any one of us can take bits and pieces of info and put it together to make someone look bad and get our point across.

People can make fun of Bush all day long for how he talks and how dumb he is, but he's obviously not too damn stupid. One thing that has always bothered me (and this is off topic), not just about Bush but other presidents, is how we make fun of them and cut them down ALL the time. We make a big joke out of them from the time the debates start. I know it doesn't matter in the big scheme of things, but how does that make us look to other countries? There will never be a president in office that makes ALL the right choices and makes EVERYONE happy. It won't happen! But I guess in my perfect world, I do think people should trust what they can't see.

Do you think that we know everything there is to know about the government. HELL NO! I do recall the JFK shooting is STILL locked in a vault somewhere, and we might never know what really happened. Why? Because that's the way our government works. Bush probably CAN'T tell us everything. And to be honest I don't know if I would want to know half the crap he does. It would be down right scary.

I know this is way off topic, but there's my rant. :sigh

I have a hard time believing that there were no WMD's in Iraq. In the time between the threat and the time that the UN actually sent inspectors in, 3 months passed. You don't think that Sadaam and his little exterminating posse couldn't have moved them??? Ummm yeah.... I can guarantee those thigns were moved in about 48 hours. I wouldn't doubt it past the end of my nose.

I also think that if the terrorist that are in OUR COUNTRY... working businesses in OUR COUNTRY... and sending that money from OUR COUNTRY to Iraq and Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, and Iran for the terrorist to have money to fund their little anti-semantic party then I can pretty much guarantee that Sadaam had a way of filtering money into Al Qaeda to do his dirty work while he was in power.

For us to sit here and believe that a bunch of GOVERNMENT officials that did this investigation told us the TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH when so many of them up there lie to us everyday is trusting them a bit much.

We can trust the 9/11 commission, but we can't trust the administration... that's like trusting your enemy and your WORST enemy. Not a good plan to me. Doubt them all, always. The CIA, FBI, Homeland security, FOX, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and COUNTLESS other organizations, people, news stations, and agencies lie to us EVERYDAY.. they keep secrets, they tell lies, they tell the truth to send us in the right direction and then lie to us to send us in the wrong direction and yada yada yada.....

it's an endless cycle of mindgames and control. They have all of us on such a short leash. One person can get in front of a camera (Michael Moore) and create an UPROAR against our countries administration. That's pretty sad. One person, who quite honestly talks out of his ass, can give his personal opinion about something that we all have VERY emotional states of opinion on and he can create mass hatred and doubt in all of us. Quite honestly that scares me.


I'm really wondering WHERE everyone is getting all their information....??? How much can you REALLY trust a website???? How do you know it's not some crackhead who had a lightbulb go off all of a sudden and decided to create a website with his theory and tried to call it fact.

How do we know that the 9/11 commission isn't a bunch of bullshit that they created to make us HATE the war so that we didn't look like a bunch of blood monkeys going after countries all over the world???? I mean seriously....

I could really honestly completely CARE LESS about Bush being up there. The next president isn't going to be able to just PULL our troops out of Iraq. It's not going to happen. Some other threat will come in... some intelligence and it'll strike fear into the new administration... the generals and admirals will call for more troops again... they will ask for more money... congress will attach more pork to the bills to allow for more money to go into the defense budget to support the troops and once again the American people and troops will be the ones paying the price.

Our country won't change until we as an American people actually UNITE to make things change, but that won't happen because our media and government leaders have us SOOOOOOO brainwashed and completely backwards that we don't know whats right or wrong or fact or fiction.

:yes

I disagree. I think he did what he thought was best at the time. There is no turning back the clock. I still stand behind him 100%.

Impeach Bush? HAHAHAHA! You're kidding right? The American people voted for him, we have to live with our choice. BTW, when you get right down to it WE THE PEOPLE control the military through Congress. If you regret voting for Bush, then tough shit. It's called living with the consequences of your choices.

I totally agree. I think to many people want a do over. The government is not a baseball game that when you do like the score you can yell "Do Over". That is why when you vote you think long and hard and pick the best out of the worse KWIM? So I think it is a waste of peoples money to try and Impeach bush send that damn money over to the troops folks. Half of the troops do believe they are helping Iraq half don't just like here half think we have a purpose over there and half don't. So there you go. Just live and Let Live.

I have a hard time believing that there were no WMD's in Iraq. In the time between the threat and the time that the UN actually sent inspectors in, 3 months passed. You don't think that Sadaam and his little exterminating posse couldn't have moved them??? Ummm yeah.... I can guarantee those thigns were moved in about 48 hours. I wouldn't doubt it past the end of my nose.

I also think that if the terrorist that are in OUR COUNTRY... working businesses in OUR COUNTRY... and sending that money from OUR COUNTRY to Iraq and Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, and Iran for the terrorist to have money to fund their little anti-semantic party then I can pretty much guarantee that Sadaam had a way of filtering money into Al Qaeda to do his dirty work while he was in power.

For us to sit here and believe that a bunch of GOVERNMENT officials that did this investigation told us the TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH when so many of them up there lie to us everyday is trusting them a bit much.

We can trust the 9/11 commission, but we can't trust the administration... that's like trusting your enemy and your WORST enemy. Not a good plan to me. Doubt them all, always. The CIA, FBI, Homeland security, FOX, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and COUNTLESS other organizations, people, news stations, and agencies lie to us EVERYDAY.. they keep secrets, they tell lies, they tell the truth to send us in the right direction and then lie to us to send us in the wrong direction and yada yada yada.....

it's an endless cycle of mindgames and control. They have all of us on such a short leash. One person can get in front of a camera (Michael Moore) and create an UPROAR against our countries administration. That's pretty sad. One person, who quite honestly talks out of his ass, can give his personal opinion about something that we all have VERY emotional states of opinion on and he can create mass hatred and doubt in all of us. Quite honestly that scares me.


I'm really wondering WHERE everyone is getting all their information....??? How much can you REALLY trust a website???? How do you know it's not some crackhead who had a lightbulb go off all of a sudden and decided to create a website with his theory and tried to call it fact.

How do we know that the 9/11 commission isn't a bunch of bullshit that they created to make us HATE the war so that we didn't look like a bunch of blood monkeys going after countries all over the world???? I mean seriously....

I could really honestly completely CARE LESS about Bush being up there. The next president isn't going to be able to just PULL our troops out of Iraq. It's not going to happen. Some other threat will come in... some intelligence and it'll strike fear into the new administration... the generals and admirals will call for more troops again... they will ask for more money... congress will attach more pork to the bills to allow for more money to go into the defense budget to support the troops and once again the American people and troops will be the ones paying the price.

Our country won't change until we as an American people actually UNITE to make things change, but that won't happen because our media and government leaders have us SOOOOOOO brainwashed and completely backwards that we don't know whats right or wrong or fact or fiction.

Sorry couldn't figure out how to multi post. I agree with this one too. I think saddam moved the goodies just like he did last time. They are probably baried in the middle of the desert some where. Does anyone remember the last gulf war The man baried all of his fighter jets If he can bary all that what do you think he did this time?? He baried that crap he probably had the same guys doing it too. I think the whole reason the military is finding mass graves and all that is by accident they are probably looking for the WMD and stumbling on to the graves. Now here is a Question for everyone. If someone on your street was killing anyone who believed in God and Not Budda would you want him in jail or do you think he has a right to do so because in his book it's all good??? Or if that same guy was killing people and then any extra cash he had he was helping his buddy in south dakota Do the same would it be ok for both of them to get away with it?? I think people need to look at things from a different view sometimes.

Well, I think taking the country to war based on lies, intentional of not, is WRONG. As a president it is his responsibility (along with Congress and the rest of his administration) to make DAMN SURE we are going to war based on TRUTH. I am mad at all of them, and I think they ALL did wrong. Start with Bush and work your way down for all I care.

And I don't want impeachment to explicitly get Bush out of office. That is coming soon enough with the 2008 elections and a Congress that is not full of Republican lap dogs anymore. I want impeachment because if the President is impeached, he can't stop the investigation into whether or not he knowingly lied about the "intelligence" before the war. If it turns out he really did receive that intelligence and unknowingly led us into war with a country that had no WMD's, then I want to know that. If he lied knowingly to Congress, the UN, and the American people and went to war with iraq knowing full well that there were no weapons, then I want him held accountable. And I want everyone else who knew there were no weapons held accountable. Republican or Democrat. I want to know the TRUTH. THAT is why I want impeachment. It's obvious we aren't going to get it from Bush without a fight since he already stopped the second half of the pre-war intelligence investigation, the part that would have determined if he knew it was a lie. So, we need to, as Americans with rights, demand the truth. Every American, pro-Bush or anti-Bush... Democrat of Republican... conservative or liberal... should want to know the truth, IMO.

That's how I feel about it.

That post f'in rocked girl! You said it all! :yes :thumbsup

Michael Moore doesn't have a leg to stand on!! Everything he uses comes from the media and his asshole. Just because the president doesn't explain things well, as some people say, doesn't mean they should turn around and listen to some left wing nutjob. :no I'm not attacking you Brandi, I just can't stand that man and anything that comes out of his mouth. Any one of us can take bits and pieces of info and put it together to make someone look bad and get our point across.

People can make fun of Bush all day long for how he talks and how dumb he is, but he's obviously not too damn stupid. One thing that has always bothered me (and this is off topic), not just about Bush but other presidents, is how we make fun of them and cut them down ALL the time. We make a big joke out of them from the time the debates start. I know it doesn't matter in the big scheme of things, but how does that make us look to other countries? There will never be a president in office that makes ALL the right choices and makes EVERYONE happy. It won't happen! But I guess in my perfect world, I do think people should trust what they can't see.

Do you think that we know everything there is to know about the government. HELL NO! I do recall the JFK shooting is STILL locked in a vault somewhere, and we might never know what really happened. Why? Because that's the way our government works. Bush probably CAN'T tell us everything. And to be honest I don't know if I would want to know half the crap he does. It would be down right scary.

I know this is way off topic, but there's my rant. :sigh

I don't think you're attacking me, sweetie. We can discuss without getting mean about it :P You know that ;)

As far as MM goes, like I said, I've never seen any of his movies and I honestly know very little about him. So, I'm just going strictly by what I've heard, which is that he completely disagrees with our president and administration. Aside from those two things, I don't know a single thing about him or any of his movies or opinions. I was basically defending the fact that it's okay to disagree with our administration and if he has the money to make movies about it then good for him :lol I can't agree or disagree with his tact or the way he went about expressing his views because as I mentioned, I don't know much about it. This debate has reminded me that I do want to watch the movie though, just so I can have something to base my opinions off of. For right now, I don't have anything solid to go by, I'm just going by hear say and other people's opinions of him.

I don't make fun of Bush and I don't recall ever making fun of him. I do think the little bush guy on comedy central is HILARIOUS but that's just because he does the impersonations so well :rofl I really don't sit around and laugh at Bush though and I don't think he's an idiot. I just really disagree with the way he's gone about things, especially keeping us educated about the REAL DEAL. As I've said before, I really feel like he does far too much reading and dancing around the truth. I wish, for once, that he'd just talk to the American people like people. Not read to us. TALK to us. With SINCERITY. And honesty.

I wasn't putting all that on you Brandi, I was just saying it in general. It was pointless really, I just said it :lol

Okay Michelle, I am going to tell you where I got the info that I used in my response to you. I will quote as many sources as I can, but my hubby is off work in an hour and is gonna want the computer. LOL. I'll quote myself and then post the links to where I got the information in quotes.

I also know that while Clinton may have missed the boat with Osama (he did send people after Osama though, so he didn't just completely ignore the problem), so did Bush.

Here is the link from Snopes with the list of actions that Clinton took against Osama and other terrorist attacks against the US during his administration. Snopes lists all of the sources for it's information at the bottom of the page.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm

Here is a video of an MSNBC show outlining what Bush and Clinton failed to do.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZzATQEeJYU

The White House never informed anyone else of this (telling the FAA would have been nice) and denied knowing anything about a possible attack beforehand.

There is video all over the internet with Bush and Cheney denying knowing anything about the plan to attack the WTC before the attacks happened. You can watch the video that Brandi posted for a few of them.

Here are websites with the copy of the Daily Briefing the President got on August 6, 2001.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0409041pdb1.html
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/80601pdb.html
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB116/index.htm
http://www.slate.com/id/2098887/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_White_House_briefing_on_terror_threats_of_August_6,_2001
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/executive/2004-04-11-pdb_x.htm

You can find even more by googling "August 6, 2001 Daily Brief".

Really though, all of that aside, 9/11 doesn't have anything to do with Iraq. It has been proven and administration officials including the President have admitted that they had nothing to do with each other.

Websites with video and quotes from the administration and other sources.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5223932/
http://youtube.com/watch?v=K1wpgGPt4sM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14728447/

And here is a link to the Congressional Pre-War Intelligence investigation.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/iraq.html

The 9/11 commission found no evidence and also proved through White House and intelligence records that the administration found no evidence that Iraq and al-Qaeda were tied together, and was actually told the opposite by the CIA in August of 2002.

Here is a link to the 9/11 Commission Report.
http://www.9-11commission.gov/

Links about the August 2002 CIA report and a report the same year from the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency) discounting a link between Iraq and 9/11.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/05/AR2007040502263_pf.html
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2007/04/the_post_gets_it_wrong_again.asp
http://www.dodig.osd.mil/fo/Foia/ERR/Part1-07-Intel-04.pdf (Page 17)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/congress/2004_rpt/iraq-wmd-intell_chapter12-c.htm

Also, there is no evidence to support that Al Qaeda was operating in Iraq before we went in and destabilized the country.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/17471.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/08/AR2006090800777.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/washington/09intelcnd.html?ex=1185422400&en=dfad2f3d2ed3af6a&ei=5070

And according to a recent report from our own intelligence agencies, Al Qaeda is doing just that and are currently at their strongest levels since a few months prior to 9/11.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2067081.ece
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19730468/
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/17857.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11921076

Those are just a few references for each thing I said in that last post, but that stuff has been all over the news for MONTHS now girl. LOL. If there is anything I missed you can ask me about it!

I have a hard time believing that there were no WMD's in Iraq. In the time between the threat and the time that the UN actually sent inspectors in, 3 months passed. You don't think that Sadaam and his little exterminating posse couldn't have moved them??? Ummm yeah.... I can guarantee those thigns were moved in about 48 hours. I wouldn't doubt it past the end of my nose.


Well, there are quite a few problems with your theory...

First of all, the weapons themselves are not the only things that would need to be removed. All evidence of their existence needs to be removed... This includes how the weapons were stored, how they were manufactured, and how they were hidden.

How the weapons would be stored would be pretty simple to hide... simply bury the containers... except that moved dirt is pretty easy to find using a little bit of radar and IR imagery, even from miles away. That's how they found the planes that Saddam buried right before the Gulf War. Time would hide these traces, but it takes years, not months, for the evidence to go away.

The alternative is to bury the weapons under water... except that the containers would leak, contaminating the area in a matter of years, and confirming exactly where the weapons are hidden.

Second, the methods of manufacturing would have to be hidden... This includes destroying or burying large, highly specialized equipment. Since there weren't reports of huge, chemically ridden explosions during those three months, and we would have found anything buried by now, this is also highly unlikely, bordering on the realm of pure fantasy. Also, the buildings would also have to be destroyed or moved, especially since it is nearly impossible to remove traces of chemical weapon manufacturing from any type of wall.

Third, the method of the weapons disposal would have to be hidden as well. In order to do the first two steps within three months, much less within two days, would require millions, or even billions of dollars to be spent. The faster that the move was made, the more people would need to participate in the cleanup. Since we haven't noticed millions of dollars missing from Iraq's budget, and we haven't heard of anybody actually participating in such a cleanup (much less, witnessed a mass murder of the workers to keep them quiet), it leads me to conclude that the weapons were never moved. Since they were never moved, and they haven't been found, they must have never have existed.

There have been spies from our own government as well as from several governments working in Iraq during those three months. It seems awfully convenient that the only thing that these spies haven't learned was the presence of chemical or biological weapons. Especially considering that traces of the weapons that we know Saddam had and used in 1990 are still identifiable, down to the month they were manufactured in.


I also think that if the terrorist that are in OUR COUNTRY... working businesses in OUR COUNTRY... and sending that money from OUR COUNTRY to Iraq and Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, and Iran for the terrorist to have money to fund their little anti-semantic party then I can pretty much guarantee that Sadaam had a way of filtering money into Al Qaeda to do his dirty work while he was in power.

Except, um, Saddam hated Al-Queda more than he hated us, so would not have filtered money towards them for any reason.

For us to sit here and believe that a bunch of GOVERNMENT officials that did this investigation told us the TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH when so many of them up there lie to us everyday is trusting them a bit much.

So, why is it such a stretch of belief that maybe, just maybe, Bush hasn't told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? He's a politician too. If a BUNCH of people can get their stories straight under close examination, but a dozen people in Bush's administration can't keep their story straight, who should we trust?

We can trust the 9/11 commission, but we can't trust the administration... that's like trusting your enemy and your WORST enemy. Not a good plan to me. Doubt them all, always. The CIA, FBI, Homeland security, FOX, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and COUNTLESS other organizations, people, news stations, and agencies lie to us EVERYDAY.. they keep secrets, they tell lies, they tell the truth to send us in the right direction and then lie to us to send us in the wrong direction and yada yada yada.....

A