Would you be able to forgive your father for molesting your six year old daughter??

I'm watching Dr. Phil and it's actually about a family trying to forgive the grandfather for molesting the 6 year old daughter. Not only would I not be able to forgive him, I would not be able to speak to him or claim him as my father, for the rest of our lives.

It's no secret that I have issues with forgiveness, but some things really ARE unforgiveable.

I might be able to eventually forgive him, mostly depening on his remorse and repentence and making lifestyle choices to avoid it ever happening again to anyone. trust him ever again? most definitely not.

NO NO NO NO...that would b such a bad situation but I dont think I could ever forgive my father

no. absolutely not.

Hell NO!!!

Nope, never

maybe if he went and got treatment and confessed and was prosectued but other than that hell fucking no

Yes. That doesn't mean I would be able to allow him back into my life, but I could forgive. I think that pedophilia is a mental sickness. No one in their right mind would molest a child. So, I would accept that and forgive him so that I could teach my child how to forgive and move on.

I don't think so.

I definitely think I would have to make sure I did everything for my child in that situation and support him/her.

awful;

My Mom STILL doesn't talk to her step father for what he did to me (and to HER her whole life). And she never will.

It doesn't help that that entire side of the family is in denial about it. :rolleyes

I think that's an unforgivable act. No matter how many times he apologized or felt remorse, I wouldn't be able to look at him the same way. I think it would be safe to say that I would want nothing to do with him.

No I don't think that I could ever forgive something like that!

No never!

Personally, I wouldn't want my daughter to have to be around that man after what he did to her. She would have to look him in the face knowing what he did, she would have to SEE him and try to act like nothing hurts when in reality, it cuts you to the bone every single time you THINK of that person, much less SEE them.

Do you know what it's like to look into the face of a man who has hurt you that way? It's like an icy hatred that makes your blood run cold and your feet turn to stone and your stomach drops into the farthest part of your gut. It's a horrible feeling. The WORST. Nothing compares to the feeling of looking into the face of your molestor.

nope i sure as heck wouldnt forgive him...and im a person that kinda forgives easily. thats one thing i would not tolerate...after that hed be outa our lives for good.

I don't think so.

No way in hell. I would never ever forgive anyone for doing that.

Nope, no way!!

I could forgive but I wouldn't want to be around them anymore.
When I was younger something like that happened with one of my older cousins. I was able to forgive him, but I don't trust the guy.
Hubby on the other hand wants to kill him... So I'm glad we're far away to avoid it.

Who says that forgiveness equals letting them back in your life, condoning what they did, or accepting what they did as okay? I certainly wasn't implying that when I said I would forgive him. I don't think anyone else was either.

Just to clarify, in case anyone gets the wrong idea about what I said.

Hell no!!!! There is no way I would even have a single pic of that :quote person :quote in my house after committing a crime like that!! And he better stay FAR away because I would not be held responsible if I saw him on the road and ran him over! I dont care what anyone says, people like that are very sick, can not be rehabilitated (in MY opinion) and should never be let out into general population without being castrated first. I do NOT have any tolerance for that.

Who says that forgiveness equals letting them back in your life, condoning what they did, or accepting what they did as okay? I certainly wasn't implying that when I said I would forgive him. I don't think anyone else was either.

Just to clarify, in case anyone gets the wrong idea about what I said.

i agree with you. coming to terms with the fact that yes this horrible, tragic thing happened and moving past that with your child is an amazing thing.

im not sure. i dont have kids. but i dont think i could forgive...it really depends though

No, I don't think I could forgive ANYONE that would do that to my kids. There is NO excuse and NOTHING would make it 'right'.

No way! That just crosses a big line.

I can't say that I would forgive.. I am just now watching Dr. Phil. :rolleyes. OMG the grandmother is ridiculous. I don't know if I will be able to finish watching the show.

never.

I've forgiven my father for too many things already. And I don't believe I could forgive him for that. It would take a long time to come to peace with it.

Hell No!!! He would be lucky I didn't kill him first.

I can't say that I would forgive.. I am just now watching Dr. Phil. :rolleyes. OMG the grandmother is ridiculous. I don't know if I will be able to finish watching the show.

It's a two parter, we have to wait until Monday to see the end :banghead I feel so sorry for the little girls parents...the grandmother should be so ashamed of herself :no

It's a two parter, we have to wait until Monday to see the end :banghead I feel so sorry for the little girls parents...the grandmother should be so ashamed of herself :no
When he said I didn't know it was against the law. I almost threw something at my tv. And the grandmother is mental she has to be. to think that they wouldn't press charges.. man i gotta wait to next week.. grrrr..

I don't think so. I know he could never be in my life again. I would like to think I could forgive but I question that. I would definitely never be able to forget.

I didn't hear him say that he didn't know it was illegal. I call BS on that!! I probably missed it because I was in here at the computer asking if anybody could get over something like that :lol

I didn't hear him say that he didn't know it was illegal. I call BS on that!! I probably missed it because I was in here at the computer asking if anybody could get over something like that :lol

oh hell no then i couldn't forgive if they didn't show any remorse or feigned ignorance about it

I say no. I think that it would hurt my children more as if I was siding with the person who hurt them. I could not do it.

HELL NO. I dont give a rats ass about the circumstances or any damn thing. Thats fucking sick and totally unforgivable. I would be trying to kill the son of a bitch on Dr Phils stage

No I wouldn't forgive or forget..EVER!!!!..

I didn't hear him say that he didn't know it was illegal. I call BS on that!! I probably missed it because I was in here at the computer asking if anybody could get over something like that :lol
yeah right before the first break the whole coming up thing. he said something like I didn't know it was illegal and dr phil said You didn't know having sex with a 6 year old was illegal?

Would you be able to forgive your father for molesting your six year old daughter??

I'm watching Dr. Phil and it's actually about a family trying to forgive the grandfather for molesting the 6 year old daughter. Not only would I not be able to forgive him, I would not be able to speak to him or claim him as my father, for the rest of our lives.

It's no secret that I have issues with forgiveness, but some things really ARE unforgiveable.

I agree

i agree with you. coming to terms with the fact that yes this horrible, tragic thing happened and moving past that with your child is an amazing thing.

Have you had to move past something like that in your life?

Not attacking you, but you have no idea what it feels like. Neither me NOR my Mother have "moved past that" and we simply never will. There is no question. We do not forgive him. I never will. He is an evil man.

No, not even a little.

Yes, I have already forgiven a child molester.

My step-father molested and abused my two older sisters and abused me. He was put in jail for several years after, but I have found that even with him out of my sisters' and my lives, he still had an effect, several years later.

I never forgot what he did... I will never seek to get in touch with him again... but I forgave him, as much for his own sake as for my own. I found that the hatred I was holding was eating away at my mind, so in spite of the damage he caused, I was doing worse damage to myself by not forgiving him.

Here are also a few bible quotes about forgiveness...

Colossians 3:13
Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. (NIV)

Matthew 18:21-22
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. (NIV)

Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. (NIV)

Matthew 6:14-16
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (NIV)

Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. (NIV)

Hmmm... Jesus explained the forgiveness part quite a bit to his disciples... often enough for it to appear in all of the gospels. (I can't find the one in John, but I know it is there) Maybe it is important...

Or maybe it's like any of Jesus' other admonitions to be nice to others... just ignore it if you feel like it. ;)

Absolutely not!!

Absolutely not!!!!

NO, I would not be able to forgive him.

Yes, I have already forgiven a child molester.

My step-father molested and abused my two older sisters and abused me. He was put in jail for several years after, but I have found that even with him out of my sisters' and my lives, he still had an effect, several years later.

I never forgot what he did... I will never seek to get in touch with him again... but I forgave him, as much for his own sake as for my own. I found that the hatred I was holding was eating away at my mind, so in spite of the damage he caused, I was doing worse damage to myself by not forgiving him.

Here are also a few bible quotes about forgiveness...

Colossians 3:13
Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. (NIV)

Matthew 18:21-22
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. (NIV)

Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. (NIV)

Matthew 6:14-16
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (NIV)

Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. (NIV)

Hmmm... Jesus explained the forgiveness part quite a bit to his disciples... often enough for it to appear in all of the gospels. (I can't find the one in John, but I know it is there) Maybe it is important...

Or maybe it's like any of Jesus' other admonitions to be nice to others... just ignore it if you feel like it. ;)


I guess it's easy to look at it hypothetically and say "No way would I ever forgive..." But when you bring up the internal feelings and the damage that can come from REFUSING to forgive, it sheds a different light on things. I guess some things you just have to live through in order to know how you'd really handle them.

I don't need Bible quotes to tell me to forgive a man who did what he did to me. I don't feel a constant hatred for him, but I certainly won't ever forgive him. I can forgive someone almost anything. EXCEPT that. That is not like a regular wrong doing to someone. That is a lifetime of memories that you NEVER get over. You're scarred for life. You have to strive to be able to get close to someone. I had to figure out WHY I was so confused about my feelings toward my Dad. Turns out, where the images of Jack were empty spaces, I substituted those blank spots with my Dad's face. How DARE Jack ruin me like that. How DARE he take away my childlike innocence. No, I will NEVER forgive him, and I turn my nose up at ANYONE who tells me I SHOULD. Jack never repented, he claims he never did anything to me, and until he either asks God for forgiveness or dies, I will not forgive him his transgressions.

No, I couldnt, not ever.

I guess it's easy to look at it hypothetically and say "No way would I ever forgive..." But when you bring up the internal feelings and the damage that can come from REFUSING to forgive, it sheds a different light on things. I guess some things you just have to live through in order to know how you'd really handle them.

Exactly.

And I have no damage from refusing to forgive. I have damage from what HE did to me. My refusing to forgive is like a nothing to me. He hasn't ASKED for forgiveness, so to me, he doesn't deserve my forgiveness. OR God's.

No, I wouldn't be able too and I would cut someone like that out of my life completely if I hadn't strangled them first.

Never. I know how that can affect a child and if someone put MY child through that I would never forgive them, or see them again..

If anyone ever molested my child, they would be dead, buried in a deep grave in the desert the day after I found out.

If I went to jail for it, so be it. Completely worth it to me. Having been molested myself, by family members, and having had parents who stood idly by and allowed those people to stay in the house afterward because we're "Christian so we need to forgive," I can honestly say I would commit murder. If I go to hell for it, so be it.

Yes, I have already forgiven a child molester.

My step-father molested and abused my two older sisters and abused me. He was put in jail for several years after, but I have found that even with him out of my sisters' and my lives, he still had an effect, several years later.

I never forgot what he did... I will never seek to get in touch with him again... but I forgave him, as much for his own sake as for my own. I found that the hatred I was holding was eating away at my mind, so in spite of the damage he caused, I was doing worse damage to myself by not forgiving him.

Here are also a few bible quotes about forgiveness...

Colossians 3:13
Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. (NIV)

Matthew 18:21-22
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. (NIV)

Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. (NIV)

Matthew 6:14-16
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (NIV)

Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. (NIV)

Hmmm... Jesus explained the forgiveness part quite a bit to his disciples... often enough for it to appear in all of the gospels. (I can't find the one in John, but I know it is there) Maybe it is important...

Or maybe it's like any of Jesus' other admonitions to be nice to others... just ignore it if you feel like it. ;)

You say you were abused by him, do you mean physical abuse, or sexual abuse? Because I honestly believe there is a HUGE difference between the two. Have your sisters forgiven him for sexually molesting them?

If anyone ever molested my child, they would be dead, buried in a deep grave in the desert the day after I found out.

If I went to jail for it, so be it. Completely worth it to me. Having been molested myself, by family members, and having had parents who stood idly by and allowed those people to stay in the house afterward because we're "Christian so we need to forgive," I can honestly say I would commit murder. If I go to hell for it, so be it.

:agree

Would you be able to forgive your father for molesting your six year old daughter??


HELL no.

The Christian in me says I should, but there are some things in life I would never be able to forgive someone. And that's murdering or hurting my children in anyway.

Absolutely not.

I'd be sitting in jail.

I can't say that I would forgive.. I am just now watching Dr. Phil. :rolleyes. OMG the grandmother is ridiculous. I don't know if I will be able to finish watching the show.

How could you even stay married to the person! Is she still married to him?

I would seriously murder my husband if he did anything like that. No way would I stay with him. And if my dad did it & my stepmom stayed married to him- she'd be written out of my life too.

How could you even stay married to the person! Is she still married to him?

I would seriously murder my husband if he did anything like that. No way would I stay with him. And if my dad did & my stepmom stayed married to him- she'd be written out of my life too.

My grandmother is still with my grandfather. And she has the NERVE to ask other family members why I never want to go visit them. The wives tend to live in a state of denial because the men sneak around behind their backs. They dont' want to believe he could actually do that.

I told her I'd go visit her when he is sitting in his little corner of Hell. So she better hope he dies first if she ever wants to see me again.

I wouldnt be able to forgive and like you I would remove them from my life for good!!!

dr. phil is about to come one here so i'm gonna watch it

I think women who stay with men that do that or have done that in the past are just as bad. Especially if they currently have children or are planning to. I believe women that do that are just as evil.

I think women who stay with men that do that or have done that in the past are just as bad. Especially if they currently have children or are planning to. I believe women that do that are just as evil.


I do too. It's like by knowing and being with the person they are condoning it.

My grandmother is still with my grandfather. And she has the NERVE to ask other family members why I never want to go visit them. The wives tend to live in a state of denial because the men sneak around behind their backs. They dont' want to believe he could actually do that.

I told her I'd go visit her when he is sitting in his little corner of Hell. So she better hope he dies first if she ever wants to see me again.

That's too bad...and she's lucky you'd even still see her (even if it is after he's dead).

That's too bad...and she's lucky you'd even still see her (even if it is after he's dead).

She'll be lucky if I do. I still haven't decided. But I know one thing for sure. I TRIED to be around him again once when there was a family reunion, and I was made so sick by his presence that I couldn't eat any of the BBQ. I had to leave. I will NEVER attempt to be around that man.

You believe he had the nerve to ask me for a hug? HELL NO BUDDY

I do too. It's like by knowing and being with the person they are condoning it.

I can't stand to read, hear, or heaven forbid witness (like something w/ my children) bad things happening to babies or kids. It's very hard for me and my heart breaks even reading a couple stories here. It's like Gold said, how dare someone feel they have the right to take that innocence away.

I just can't even FATHOM why you would stay w/ a molestor? It makes me sick now to even think about it.

these episodes were on earlier this year

I can't stand to read, hear, or heaven forbid witness (like something w/ my children) bad things happening to babies or kids. It's very hard for me and my heart breaks even reading a couple stories here. It's like Gold said, how dare someone feel they have the right to take that innocence away.

I just can't even FATHOM why you would stay w/ a molestor? It makes me sick now to even think about it.

Me too. I literally get nauseous. That is one thing I feel out early in a relationship. I know without a doubt that I can trust Sam. Hell, he's never even met Jack and he wants to kill him. He said "Don't ever let me meet him, I can't be held accountable". I just don't understand how a woman can stay with a man if she even SUSPECTS or if OTHER PEOPLE ACCUSE her husband of touching little girls, much less her OWN daughters!! :no

I can't stand to read, hear, or heaven forbid witness (like something w/ my children) bad things happening to babies or kids. It's very hard for me and my heart breaks even reading a couple stories here. It's like Gold said, how dare someone feel they have the right to take that innocence away.

I just can't even FATHOM why you would stay w/ a molestor? It makes me sick now to even think about it.

At the lovely family reunion there was this one weird looking dude there. I later asked dh who he was and why I wasn't introduced to him. Dh told me that it was his cousin ___ and that he is a registered sex offender. Mind you the :loser is married and has a 6 year old daughter. I had a bad vibe coming off of the guy and now I know why. He's a monster.

I was like wtf is she doing with him?

At the lovely family reunion there was this one weird looking dude there. I later asked dh who he was and why I wasn't introduced to him. Dh told me that it was his cousin ___ and that he is a registered sex offender. Mind you the :loser is married and has a 6 year old daughter.

I was like wtf is she doing with him?

IMO that woman is a horrible mother. That simple fact alone negates anything beneficial she does for that child. She may as well be scum of the earth after putting her child in danger like that.

IMO that woman is a horrible mother. That simple fact alone negates anything beneficial she does for that child. She may as well be scum of the earth after putting her child in danger like that.

agree

IMO that woman is a horrible mother. That simple fact alone negates anything beneficial she does for that child. She may as well be scum of the earth after putting her child in danger like that.

Truly disgusting.
:pukey

Never. Unforgivable.

Me too. I literally get nauseous. That is one thing I feel out early in a relationship. I know without a doubt that I can trust Sam. Hell, he's never even met Jack and he wants to kill him. He said "Don't ever let me meet him, I can't be held accountable". I just don't understand how a woman can stay with a man if she even SUSPECTS or if OTHER PEOPLE ACCUSE her husband of touching little girls, much less her OWN daughters!! :no

That's why I don't want any males other than my dad & his dad with her. If his mom ever has a live in boyfriend, my kids won't stay the night there till I know him really well and have a feel. When my daughter was w/ her for 2 weeks, she went to a beach house (a friends) and I made sure Phil told her we didn't want her around any guys. I wasn't there to protect her/keep an eye, kwim? I'm comfortable w/ my dad & stepmom b/c I slept w/ my dad in the same bed a couple times when I was growing up (when he lived w/ a room mate & had a big bed...so I slept on the other side) and nothing ever happened to me and I trust him.

But no male babysitters, not even my brothers will be alone w/ gabby.

People think I'm way over protective but you just have no idea and I would hate for my daughter to experience something like this b/c I could only imagine how life changing it would be for her. My mom was like this w/ me growing up w/ any uncles or other guys (like her boyfriend) b/c she had a bad experience. And while nothing happened to me growing up, I have read & heard too many stories to be trusting.

I think women who stay with men that do that or have done that in the past are just as bad. Especially if they currently have children or are planning to. I believe women that do that are just as evil.

absofriggenlutely. She should be prosecuted right along with him. :biting

No. Never. Period.

People think I'm way over protective but you just have no idea and I would hate for my daughter to experience something like this b/c I could only imagine how life changing it would be for her. My mom was like this w/ me growing up w/ any uncles or other guys (like her boyfriend) b/c she had a bad experience. And while nothing happened to me growing up, I have read & heard too many stories to be trusting.

My Mom was the same way. She trusted NO ONE. Hell, for the first few years of our lives, she literally slept with her hand under my Dad so she would know if he got up in the middle of the night. Eventually she got over that with him, and realized he is a genuinely GOOD man, but we were NOT allowed to stay with just any old male. She is WAY untrusting of men (and women really), so we rarely had babysitters. I would rather it that way than to find out a cousin or uncle or neighbor got their hands on my little girl. :puke

Hell no. NO way, no how. I would forgive someone for doing it to me, WAY before I would to my child.

OMFG NO!
My what you would normally call your FIL did something to my son and that fuckin rat bastard POS is going to rot in hell and no one will miss him. I have to hold my family members back whenever they hear his name.

He will never ever EVER get any forgiveness from myself, my dh or any of our family members. The POS is lucky he is still breathing some what.

i saw that episode and that father does not deserve any kind of forgiveness. if my father were like that, i certainly could not forgive him. i'm not sure i could forgive in the situation at all.

no way

Dr Phil is pissing me off btw. All I see are previews for man camp episodes. Maybe that'll be on later.

No

no.

Nope, no way in hell.

Disgusting...The grandfather said he "didn't know" Sorry about my lang..stupid fucking shitbag.......He seems not to feel bad.

I feel so bad for the little girl and her family.
I could never forgive. They both would be DEAD to me.

i thought that child molesters are very likely to repeat their crimes, so why forgive him?

No, I would bust hell wide open I guess for not forgiving that person...

HELL FUCKING NO. Not only would I not forgive him, I'd probably shoot his ass.

Hell no!!!! There is no way I would even have a single pic of that :quote person :quote in my house after committing a crime like that!! And he better stay FAR away because I would not be held responsible if I saw him on the road and ran him over! I dont care what anyone says, people like that are very sick, can not be rehabilitated (in MY opinion) and should never be let out into general population without being castrated first. I do NOT have any tolerance for that.

I agree with you, I would probably be in prison for killing him
I forgot to add I would torture the hell out of him then make him suffer then kill him

I dont think I could EVER forgive. Though I have never been in that kind of situation, so it is hard for me to say. I do think I would go crazy and try to really hurt the person though, and forgivness would be the LAST thing on my mind. Unless I had to to it for my sake, if it was consuming me...but I would NEVER see or talk to that person again reguardless. I couldnt even imaigne...

I don't need Bible quotes to tell me to forgive a man who did what he did to me. I don't feel a constant hatred for him, but I certainly won't ever forgive him. I can forgive someone almost anything. EXCEPT that. That is not like a regular wrong doing to someone. That is a lifetime of memories that you NEVER get over. You're scarred for life. You have to strive to be able to get close to someone. I had to figure out WHY I was so confused about my feelings toward my Dad. Turns out, where the images of Jack were empty spaces, I substituted those blank spots with my Dad's face. How DARE Jack ruin me like that. How DARE he take away my childlike innocence. No, I will NEVER forgive him, and I turn my nose up at ANYONE who tells me I SHOULD. Jack never repented, he claims he never did anything to me, and until he either asks God for forgiveness or dies, I will not forgive him his transgressions.

I don't think anyone was asking you to. I certainly wasn't. I was explaining my thought processes when it came my turn to decide to either forgive or not.

Exactly.

And I have no damage from refusing to forgive. I have damage from what HE did to me. My refusing to forgive is like a nothing to me. He hasn't ASKED for forgiveness, so to me, he doesn't deserve my forgiveness. OR God's.

It's not for you to decide if he gets God's forgiveness. I understand why you wouldn't give him yours.

You say you were abused by him, do you mean physical abuse, or sexual abuse? Because I honestly believe there is a HUGE difference between the two. Have your sisters forgiven him for sexually molesting them?

I was not sexually molested (so, I guess that means I am automatically clueless, right?) but I was physically abused. The question was about forgiving someone for molesting your child, not yourself. My sisters were molested so I used their experience and my reaction to it as a basis for why I feel like I could eventually forgive. I am not pretending like I immediately forgave. It took me years and years to come to a point where that was even an option. One of my sisters has forgiven him, one of them hasn't. The one who hasn't forgiven has let her hatred control her life. My mother stayed with the man who abused her children, and is still married to him even though he is back in jail for armed robbery. I also forgive her for her mistakes. I do not have a relationship with her, nor will I ever. But, I forgive her. Forgiveness and acceptance are not the same thing. Forgiving and teaching my children to forgive is not the same thing as siding with the person who committed the crime. It is not the same thing as acting like nothing happened. It is not the same thing as putting up pictures of them in my house, or hugging them at family parties, or welcoming them back in my life. Forgiveness is something that I would do, and encourage my children to do, as a way to heal and move on from what happened. Forgiveness is a way to accept that what they did was wrong, and it was unfair that it happened, and it will forever be a part of our memories but it doesn't have to rule our lives. Forgiveness is a way of letting go. That is why I choose to forgive when people wrong me, or my family.

I am surprised that my choice to do what I felt was right, and forgive someone for doing something wrong, is being questioned the way it has been in this thread. I brought up the bible quotes because that is my basis for holding the virtue of forgiveness in such high regard, even though it is terribly hard to do.

I was not sexually molested (so, I guess that means I am automatically clueless, right?)

If you want my HONEST opinion, yes. You have NO idea what it's like to live with those memories your whole life. Sorry if that offends you, but it offends me that you think being beat up makes you even remotely knowledgeable on what it's like to be sexually abused as a child.

I really dont think I could forgive my father for that.

But it is hard to give a definite yes/no answer when I am not in the situation myself.

If you want my HONEST opinion, yes. You have NO idea what it's like to live with those memories your whole life. Sorry if that offends you, but it offends me that you think being beat up makes you even remotely knowledgeable on what it's like to be sexually abused as a child.

When did I ever say I knew what it felt like? I wasn't aware the question was only for those who has been sexually abused, and that anyone who hasn't been is automatically wrong if someone who has been says so. I wasn't aware that there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with sexual abuse. I wasn't aware that forgiveness was such a horrible thing.

Thanks for assuming though. I'm not sure why you are so angry with me for wanting to forgive, but it wasn't meant as a personal affront to you in any way. I am sorry that you were molested (seriously, that is horrible, I watched my sisters go through it, and I wouldn't wish it on ANYONE), and I hope that no one else in your life or my life ever has to go through it so forgiveness is even a question. I won't apologize for feeling that for me, forgiveness is the best way to move on. I am not asking you to apologize for refusing to ever forgive. Like, I said, I understand why you would feel that way.

Still not sure why I am so offensive to you...

When did I ever say I knew what it felt like? I wasn't aware the question was only for those who has been sexually abused

Here is the original post:

Would you be able to forgive your father for molesting your six year old daughter??

I'm not angry at you for wanting to forgive. I'm irritated that you threw Bible verses at us like that is supposed to change our minds or something. Maybe that wasn't your intention, but it was my perception of it. And like the saying goes: Perception is reality.

I didn't say you were WRONG. Where did I use the word "wrong". I said you have no idea what it is like to live with that. You asked if thinking that physical abuse is just like sexual abuse was way off, and in my opinion, yeah it's WAY different. I've been through both.

I'm not angry at you for wanting to forgive. I'm irritated that you threw Bible verses at us like that is supposed to change our minds or something. Maybe that wasn't your intention, but it was my perception of it. And like the saying goes: Perception is reality.

I didn't say you were WRONG. Where did I use the word "wrong". I said you have no idea what it is like to live with that. You asked if thinking that physical abuse is just like sexual abuse was way off, and in my opinion, yeah it's WAY different. I've been through both.

Understandable... even from the outside looking in I know I would have a hard time with forgiving. Even if I was somehow about to forgive, he would never be allowed back into my life period, must less in a trust position.

no.

The question wasn't for those who had been sexually molested, it was what would you do if your father molested your daughter. Not the same thing as being molested yourself. It also didn't say that only people who have been sexually molested can answer. That is where I was coming from. I was simply trying to explain how my own experiences shaped my view, not try to one up anyone. This is not a subject that I think anyone WANTS to have the most experience with.

As for perception being reality... if that is how I am to approach this, then I perceived that you were telling me I was wrong by continually questioning my responses, just like you perceived I was telling you to forgive because the bible says so even though I didn't say that at all. If we can agree that perception is not reality since, as I am sure you have said yourself, tone is very hard to read on the internet, then you simply read things into my post that weren't there and reacted to what you assumed I was saying. I assure you that if I wanted to say that everyone should forgive since I read it in the bible, I would have said exactly that. I understand that this subject is very sensitive for a lot of people, including myself. I understand why you would react emotionally. I don't mind explaining myself again because I see how this is a very emotional issue for you.

I never said that I had any idea what it was like, and by not saying that I know what it is like I am not somehow inferring that I do. Let me say it again, in another way, more clearly. Physical abuse and sexual abuse are two very different issues. I do not assume that anyone who has been through one would know what the other is like. I brought up the fact that I was physically abused by the man who sexually abused my sisters to illustrate that I was also a victim of this man, even if it was in a different way, so forgiveness was not an easy thing for me concerning him. I never said that my choice to forgive him was in any way the same process of forgiveness that a victim of sexual abuse would go through, and by not saying that I am not somehow inferring that it is. To be fair, the question wasn't about forgiving your own abuser, which is why I used the man who molested my sisters as an example of why I felt that I would personally be able to forgive.

I hope that clarified everything. I do not want my intentions to be misunderstood. I did not infer anything that I did not say outright. I truly hope that my explanation can help alleviate your irritation with me.

Yes, and as someone who has BEEN molested, I know I could NOT forgive someone for doing that to my daughter. What part of THAT do you not understand?

Why are you debating feelings and emotions? Just let it go.

I already said that I understand why you wouldn't forgive. What else do you want from me? To let it go so that you get that last word? Tell you that you are right and I am wrong? You are the one who quoted my response and questioned it, and then when I responded, questioned it again and again. I was simply helping to clarify my position since you obviously had such issue with it. Perception is reality, remember? Blame me if you want, though. I am the bad guy who told you that you have to forgive, even if I never said that. I am the arrogant man who claimed to know what being molested is like even though I never claimed that and even clarified that I do not believe that at all. I am the one who keeps it going even though I am not the one who continually questioned you, who told you that I understood and would never ask you to forgive, and even though I only responded when you questioned me.

I tried to make it better. I give up. You are right, I am wrong. Discussion over. :P

What is your problem? Seriously. Do you have to be complete jerkoff to someone you have even SAID is emotionally sensitive to this kind of subject. Where in your Bible does it say you have to be an asshole?

ETA: I quoted you and asked for clarification. Then I quoted you when you asked me a question.

I never could forgive him if he were to ever do that to DD. It would take everything in me not to shoot him.

Ending a "discussion" in the manner you did, with your little "You are right, i am wrong :P" isn't exactly appreciated on my end. I'm done with this.

What is your problem? Seriously. Do you have to be complete jerkoff to someone you have even SAID is emotionally sensitive to this kind of subject. Where in your Bible does it say you have to be an asshole?

:giggle


Okay so Tawny couldn't forgive and Ghedi could. Ghedi, Tawny is not asking you to "make it better"... it's not about right or wrong either... she's just asking you to respect her feelings on how she would handle the situation and not make her out to be wrong by quoting scripture of what all perfect people are "supposed" to do. We all know no one is perfect.

:giggle


Okay so Tawny couldn't forgive and Ghedi could. Ghedi, Tawny is not asking you to "make it better"... it's not about right or wrong either... she's just asking you to respect her feelings on how she would handle the situation and not make her out to be wrong by quoting scripture of what all perfect people are "supposed" to do. We all know no one is perfect.

Thank you Sarah. You said it much better than I could in my arms-crossed-pissed-off huff. :grumpy

:giggle


Okay so Tawny couldn't forgive and Ghedi could. Ghedi, Tawny is not asking you to "make it better"... it's not about right or wrong either... she's just asking you to respect her feelings on how she would handle the situation and not make her out to be wrong by quoting scripture of what all perfect people are "supposed" to do. We all know no one is perfect.

Maybe you can help me then... I'm not quite sure how I disrespected her feelings. I said that I understood why she would choose not to forgive, yet she kept coming at me like I was implying that she wasn't allowed to. I wasn't implying that at all. Did I not make that clear? I am seriously at a loss here as to what I did wrong. I came back and explained WHY I quoted the scriptures as soon as I saw it being taken the wrong way. It was not meant to imply that she should do anything. I explained that. What else can I do? No matter what I do, I am the bad guy. I admit, I got upset at the end because it seemed like no matter how many times I explained that the bible quotes were put there to reflect WHY I decided to follow the route of forgiveness, she still assumed I was implying something that I did not say and even tried very hard to explain that I did not imply.

I am not perfect either. I am not trying to talk my way out of anything. I mean what I say, I really do.

Maybe you can help me then... I'm not quite sure how I disrespected her feelings. I said that I understood why she would choose not to forgive, yet she kept coming at me like I was implying that she wasn't allowed to. I wasn't implying that at all. Did I not make that clear? I am seriously at a loss here as to what I did wrong. I came back and explained WHY I quoted the scriptures as soon as I saw it being taken the wrong way. It was not meant to imply that she should do anything. I explained that. What else can I do? No matter what I do, I am the bad guy. I admit, I got upset at the end because it seemed like no matter how many times I explained that the bible quotes were put there to reflect WHY I decided to follow the route of forgiveness, she still assumed I was implying something that I did not say and even tried very hard to explain that I did not imply.

I am not perfect either.

For one thing, you could just DROP IT. I was offended that a man came into a molestation thread and posted where the BIBLE says everyone should forgive everything. I'm not attacking you, I don't even care, but you just keep on going. Drop it already. I have! Or at least, I'm TRYING to.

Oh and don't pretend to know what *I* assumed. Thanks.

HELL no.

The Christian in me says I should, but there are some things in life I would never be able to forgive someone. And that's murdering or hurting my children in anyway.

I agree with this completely. I am a Christian and although I try my hardest to forgive everyone-somethings are just very difficult, and near impossible to forgive. I think I would have an easier time forgiving someone for molesting or abusing me than forgiving someone for abusing my child. I'm not even a mother yet and I get enraged just thinking about someone hurting my future child(ren). Children are the world, and our children are our world. How could I forgive someone for hurting and terrorizing my world? My pride and joy, my life? I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm just not sure it would be possible for me personally. I'm in the process of forgiving whoever murdered my grandmother, something I thought was impossible. So I suppose you never know.

I know I am a newer member of this site, but this is a topic very near and dear to my heart.

Ghedi, I understand what you are trying to say. And I actually commend you for being male and entering this topic. I am going to go on for a second on my personal story:
I was molested by my half-brother. My dad's first son. When I did finally tell my parents (years after he had moved away, mind you...) they tried to explain it away. They said it was because his mother (my dad's first wife) had molested him and my half-sister as kids. When I heard all of that, that my dad was defending him, that they were rationalizing it, I felt as if my dad himself had done it to me. And I found it very hard to forgive anybody in my family. I distanced myself from all of them, and I found it difficult to be intimate with my boyfriend. The slightest touch in a wrong way would get me to cry and shake for hours. I still have nightmares of him sneaking into my room, and I can't sleep for a few nights. And because of this, I have blanked out so much of those years. All the clear memories I have of then are from that asshole.

I know the question is 'would you be able to forgive your father for molesting your daughter' and my answer is no. If I ever found out my father caused my daughter to experience any of this, he would be out of my life forever. My family and I already are constantly at edge, and I am not close to them much at all. In my opinion, if my father ever laid an inappropriate finger on my daughter, he could die and rot, and the world would be a better place.

Because of all of these feelings, I used to get horribly offended when people would quote the Bible at me. I still don't feel it's necessary for me to forgive my brother. God can forgive him, but I can't. Whenever that topic comes up, however, I have learned to politely nod, smile, and say "I'm sorry. I choose to not forgive a scum-sucking prick for ruining my childhood." and walk away.

It is a terrible thing to have to survive, living with memories of being used in that sick way. If I ever see that relative again, he is going to find himself in front of a bus with 2 black eyes before he figures out what happened. :grumpy

Thank you Phantom. You explained how I feel about Bible verses better than I could in my huff.

ETA: My Father is a pastor, and I have no issues with the Bible really, just when it's used in a manner that makes me feel worse.

My apologies, Ghedi. I shouldn't have gotten so defensive.

no.. id always hold that grudge against him.. never be able to look him in the face without hating him for what he did.

My apologies, Ghedi. I shouldn't have gotten so defensive.

Thank you, and I'm sorry as well. I shouldn't have let my ego take control the way it had. And thank you for pointing out how I was coming across as holier-than-thou, even though I got defensive over it.