What things to you feel are your civic duty?
Do you complete things because you feel obligated to your nation and state?



I find voting, jury duty, obeying laws, watching the news, paying taxes and community service to be my basic responsiblities as a citizen of the US and my state itself.

i would never NOT vote, the thought of not voting makes me physically ill.

edited to say my reasons for calling those things civic duties:

Voting: It is important to take part in the election of the people who are making a MAJOR difference in your life.

Jury Duty: Our justice system depends on jurors and it is part of life, something you should do when called upon.

Obeying Laws: I think this is just a given

Watching the News: I think people should know if there is a criminal loose in their area, a missing child, a law being passed, etc.

Paying Taxes: the gov't needs this money to better the live's of the citizens.

Community Service: we are given so much in life, we should give back


I feel these are basic things for earning the rights that this country gives you. To me, it is just so important.

I also think it is LIFELONG. It is not that I can say "well, i voted a few times, I'm done. I watched the news last year, so that is checked off the list" I think it is until the day you die.

Community Service is the biggest one for me, a lot of people dont do it or have never done it...

I served in the military. I'd say that took care of a big part of my civic duty.

I don't feel watching the news is my civic duty, since most news program these days are more interested in Paris and Lindsay instead of the real issues. Voting is something that everyone should do, but I don't judge others for not doing it.

I dont feel like I HAVE to do anything and call it my "civic duty". People should do what makes them happy and worthwhile and not feel pressured or like they have to do something because they live in the US

I dont feel like I HAVE to do anything and call it my "civic duty". People should do what makes them happy and worthwhile and not feel pressured or like they have to do something because they live in the US

I agree. I just feel like I need to be a good person, abide by the laws and provide for my family the best way I can.

And what is your (Ash) definition of community service? What level of community service should people be involved in?

I personally have done some volunteer work, but I only ever do it for animal shelters and such, because I tend to like animals more than people. :D

I dont feel like I HAVE to do anything and call it my "civic duty". People should do what makes them happy and worthwhile and not feel pressured or like they have to do something because they live in the US

I agree with this! :yes

what one considers important is not something that others do, and vice versa...

I also would never judge anyone either.

I agree. I just feel like I need to be a good person, abide by the laws and provide for my family the best way I can.

And what is your (Ash) definition of community service? What level of community service should people be involved in?

I personally have done some volunteer work, but I only ever do it for animal shelters and such, because I tend to like animals more than people. :D

I think its awesome!

i agreed with almost all of 'em but i dont think watching the news is civic responsibility...esp local news, it never lets you in on anything really really important it seems, and then bigger news stations have their biases...i dunno if it was to become civic duty to watch the news...it would just turn into Propaganda central

I just saw she edited this post...When you said you should do these things to ear the rights the country gives, shouldnt the one and only thing that does that for you is serving in the military?

I served in the military. I'd say that took care of a big part of my civic duty.

I don't feel watching the news is my civic duty, since most news program these days are more interested in Paris and Lindsay instead of the real issues. Voting is something that everyone should do, but I don't judge others for not doing it.

:yes

I try to stay as well-informed as I can by reading a variety of news websites daily... but I rarely watch tv.

I dont have to "earn" any rights. I am an American citizen. I do things I feel make me a good person. I dont believe in Civic duties so to speak.

I just saw she edited this post...When you said you should do these things to ear the rights the country gives, shouldnt the one and only thing that does that for you is serving in the military?

Maybe it's not the only thing, but I would say I've certainly earned the rights this country gives by serving :yes I would say anyone who has served for a number of years has earned those rights and that even if they don't do community service or watch the news, they deserve their rights.

I dont have to "earn" any rights. I am an American citizen. I do things I feel make me a good person. I dont believe in Civic duties so to speak.

I agree again.

I agree with lissa...I dont think you should have to do things...I think people should do things cause they want to do them and what they choose to do makes them feel good about themselves.

I agree with lissa...I dont think you should have to do things...I think people should do things cause they want to do them and what they choose to do makes them feel good about themselves.

:tu

I agree. Volunteering and working with animals makes me feel good. It helps animals go to good homes and to keep them off the streets (which becomes a societal issue). Working with animals is what gives me the most personal satisfaction.

I just saw she edited this post...When you said you should do these things to ear the rights the country gives, shouldnt the one and only thing that does that for you is serving in the military?

I think it is one of the best ways to actually physically fight for those rights.

I dont mean for it to seem like you HAVE to do anything to have your rights. that's the beauty of America, you get those RIGHTS no matter what.

I think it is however, the appropriate thing to do, to give back.

Voting: I vote but not because i feel it's my "responsibilty", I vote for me and my family...in the end it's their lives that will be affected. I do not vote in every election that comes about...but I vote.

Jury Duty: If I get called I will abide by the law

Obeying Laws: A given, not a civic duty

Watching the News: When I feel like it..again, not my civic duty. As far as missing kids...plenty of electronic billboards around town, plus I hope that I don't have to wait for the news to come on to hear about a missing child...it's all about time after all

Paying Taxes: I work so I pay....it's taken right out for me so it's not like a choice or anything:P

Community Service: When time allows...my family comes first though. I donate when I can and what I can and that is usually all I am able to do

Voting: I vote but not because i feel it's my "responsibilty", I vote for me and my family...in the end it's their lives that will be affected. I do not vote in every election that comes about...but I vote.

Jury Duty: If I get called I will abide by the law

Obeying Laws: A given, not a civic duty

Watching the News: When I feel like it..again, not my civic duty. As far as missing kids...plenty of electronic billboards around town, plus I hope that I don't have to wait for the news to come on to hear about a missing child...it's all about time after all

Paying Taxes: I work so I pay....it's taken right out for me so it's not like a choice or anything:P

Community Service: When time allows...my family comes first though. I donate when I can and what I can and that is usually all I am able to do

:agree Well said

I have my phone set to recieve a text message when there is an Amber Alert in my area.

Voting: I vote but not because i feel it's my "responsibilty", I vote for me and my family...in the end it's their lives that will be affected. I do not vote in every election that comes about...but I vote.

Jury Duty: If I get called I will abide by the law

Obeying Laws: A given, not a civic duty

Watching the News: When I feel like it..again, not my civic duty. As far as missing kids...plenty of electronic billboards around town, plus I hope that I don't have to wait for the news to come on to hear about a missing child...it's all about time after all

Paying Taxes: I work so I pay....it's taken right out for me so it's not like a choice or anything:P

Community Service: When time allows...my family comes first though. I donate when I can and what I can and that is usually all I am able to do


that's what i mean :)
if everyone just did their little part, it would be fabulous! you go girl :giggle


and Kristen, anytime you give your time w/o pay to better the area around you is community service, imo... so your work with animals totally is!!

<--activates flame-retardant shield-->

A citizen shouldn't be defined by their nation of birth. No one should be allowed special privelege simply because of nationality. If one doesn't take part in servitude of their country, state or community, they should be allowed no special privelege.

I find it ironic that people will claim that they feel no obligation to serve the country that serves them, but will use every single resource in our law books to persue an injustice they feel they've been dealt. If you don't serve on jury duty, you shouldn't be allowed a state appointed attorney. If you don't vote, you shouldn't be eligible for WIC, Food Stamps or Welfare.

See, it's not a problem of birth nation, it's a problem of too many citizens saying "Someone else will do it," or, even worse, "Doing these things interferes with my lifestyle." It's this train of thought and inaction that has gotten us where we are now - corrupt court systems, health care and politicians.

<--activates flame-retardant shield-->

A citizen shouldn't be defined by their nation of birth. No one should be allowed special privelege simply because of nationality. If one doesn't take part in servitude of their country, state or community, they should be allowed no special privelege.

I find it ironic that people will claim that they feel no obligation to serve the country that serves them, but will use every single resource in our law books to persue an injustice they feel they've been dealt. If you don't serve on jury duty, you shouldn't be allowed a state appointed attorney. If you don't vote, you shouldn't be eligible for WIC, Food Stamps or Welfare.

See, it's not a problem of birth nation, it's a problem of too many citizens saying "Someone else will do it," or, even worse, "Doing these things interferes with my lifestyle." It's this train of thought and inaction that has gotten us where we are now - corrupt court systems, health care and politicians.


My dad is a disabled vet who isnt allowed to have jury duty because of the chairs and his back condition, so you think he shouldnt be allowed anything because of that.

I think when you put requirements on things it dosent become a responsibilty it becomes a MUST DO IT. So where is the pride?

My dad is a disabled vet who isnt allowed to have jury duty because of the chairs and his back condition, so you think he shouldnt be allowed anything because of that.

I think when you put requirements on things it dosent become a responsibilty it becomes a MUST DO IT. So where is the pride?

Your first six words took care of the servitude requirement. Medically incapable people would report to the courthouse, just like they do today, and provide documentation as to why they cannot attend.

Where's the pride in "It doesn't make feel good about myself."?

But when you take something like voting and you say you cant recieve this this and this unless you vote, is that democratic?

I find it ironic that people will claim that they feel no obligation to serve the country that serves them, but will use every single resource in our law books to persue an injustice they feel they've been dealt. If you don't serve on jury duty, you shouldn't be allowed a state appointed attorney. If you don't vote, you shouldn't be eligible for WIC, Food Stamps or Welfare.

What about things like police and fire services? Use of libraries and courts? Public parks and recreation areas?

Just wondering... :P

BTW, love the flame retardant shield. LMAO.

Servitude requirement. I have never served in the military, done jury duty, Dont vote on a regular basis cause politicians suck. Guess I dont deserve any rights either. Maybe I should move to Mexico

Ill move with you...we can go to mexico and get our pictures taken with teh painted donkeys LOL

But when you take something like voting and you say you cant recieve this this and this unless you vote, is that democratic?

Only citizens are allowed to vote. Citizenship should not be defined as one's place of birth, it should be defined by one's actions while living under the blanket of that nation. If one doesn't support the fiber of that blanket, it should be removed.

Felons aren't allowed to vote or serve jury duty - they have been stripped of their citizenship status. This should be carried over to those who do not ACTIVELY support the principles of a democracy.

Ill move with you...we can go to mexico and get our pictures taken with teh painted donkeys LOL

Cool. I want one of those big hats too

Only citizens are allowed to vote. Citizenship should not be defined as one's place of birth, it should be defined by one's actions while living under the blanket of that nation. If one doesn't support the fiber of that blanket, it should be removed.

Felons aren't allowed to vote or serve jury duty - they have been stripped of their citizenship status. This should be carried over to those who do not ACTIVELY support the principles of a democracy.

Yet those felons are entitled to the same rights and benefits as the rest of us, such as welfare and WIC and a squad car after a fender bender. Why is it fair that they don't have to vote or serve jury duty to get those things, but it seems like someone who has never committed a crime should have to?

But unfortunately thats not how its defined in this country and if you want to take away peoples citzenships because they dont vote then I guess my parents arent citizens and when my dad has to get rods placed hin his back and get them shocked you can tell him he isnt a citizen cause he doesnt vote.

When you tell people they have to do these things to be citizens then its not a democracy anymore.

Servitude requirement. I have never served in the military, done jury duty, Dont vote on a regular basis cause politicians suck. Guess I dont deserve any rights either. Maybe I should move to Mexico

Politicians suck. Vague and generalized, to be sure. How about those politician who approved the "Amber Alert"? FEMA? Charities? If your only tool is a hammer, all problems become nails. Do your research and vote your concience. You don't have to serve in the military to serve the country. Community service, state/community jobs, etc.. would do the same thing. If you feel you deserve rights simply because of your birthplace, perhaps a visit to a country where it's citizens are simply servants of the dictator would be in order.

What about things like police and fire services? Use of libraries and courts? Public parks and recreation areas?

Just wondering... :P

BTW, love the flame retardant shield. LMAO.

Exactly! Servitude is not limited to military service. Volunteer firefighters, police ride-alongs, COP programs, etc. These things are all means of serving a community.

Politicians suck. Vague and generalized, to be sure. How about those politician who approved the "Amber Alert"? FEMA? Charities? If your only tool is a hammer, all problems become nails. Do your research and vote your concience. You don't have to serve in the military to serve the country. Community service, state/community jobs, etc.. would do the same thing. If you feel you deserve rights simply because of your birthplace, perhaps a visit to a country where it's citizens are simply servants of the dictator would be in order.

BUT by placing requirements for services, like you dont get this unless you vote are things that happen in countries where they have dictators.

Exactly! Servitude is not limited to military service. Volunteer firefighters, police ride-alongs, COP programs, etc. These things are all means of serving a community.

Other than serving in the military, how much community service do you do?

Politicians suck. Vague and generalized, to be sure. How about those politician who approved the "Amber Alert"? FEMA? Charities? If your only tool is a hammer, all problems become nails. Do your research and vote your concience. You don't have to serve in the military to serve the country. Community service, state/community jobs, etc.. would do the same thing. If you feel you deserve rights simply because of your birthplace, perhaps a visit to a country where it's citizens are simply servants of the dictator would be in order.

Yep politicians suck. Most of em anyway. There are a few good ones. I vote when I feel there is someone worth voting for. If there isnt, I dont vote. But I also dont bitch about stuff. Why shouldnt I deserve the rights I have because I am an American by birth? What about all the illegals I am supporting with MY tax money? WHy do THEY deserve what I work for? Screw that. I cant walk into the Medicaid office and recieve shit when I need it and have worked for years but some illegal can come here give birth to 18 kids and I pay for every damn one of them. How is that right? Have they voted or done jury duty to "earn" that right? NO. SO whay should I?

I am interupting this with a plea to get my husband off here so we can go eat. Please tell him to respond later

Ok back to the debate :rofl

Yet those felons are entitled to the same rights and benefits as the rest of us, such as welfare and WIC and a squad car after a fender bender. Why is it fair that they don't have to vote or serve jury duty to get those things, but it seems like someone who has never committed a crime should have to?

A bit of a tangent from the topic, but I'm in agreement. They shouldn't be allowed these things anymore so than someone who doesn't support their community. Felons, those who directly violate law, should be held in the same regard as those who don't serve the communities the crimes are commited in.

Other than serving in the military, how much community service do you do?

I'll answer this

3 years of santa clause at childrens, head of lifesource blood bank and got HUNDREDS of people to donate

and a slew of other stuff :) I cannot remember it all but I can dig out the GL times and scan em all if ya want. He has done ALOT. He actually does more then I want him to because it means he isnt home alot :lol

Yep politicians suck. Most of em anyway. There are a few good ones. I vote when I feel there is someone worth voting for. If there isnt, I dont vote. But I also dont bitch about stuff. Why shouldnt I deserve the rights I have because I am an American by birth? What about all the illegals I am supporting with MY tax money? WHy do THEY deserve what I work for? Screw that. I cant walk into the Medicaid office and recieve shit when I need it and have worked for years but some illegal can come here give birth to 18 kids and I pay for every damn one of them. How is that right? Have they voted or done jury duty to "earn" that right? NO. SO whay should I?

I agree with you...I work and pay taxes and do community service, so I guess I am not a good citizen.

I'll answer this

3 years of santa clause at childrens, head of lifesource blood bank and got HUNDREDS of people to donate

and a slew of other stuff :) I cannot remember it all but I can dig out the GL times and scan em all if ya want. He has done ALOT. He actually does more then I want him to because it means he isnt home alot :lol

As does my husband..But we both dont vote all the time, so I dont think that people should be denied things cause they dont vote or this or that.

Yep politicians suck. Most of em anyway. There are a few good ones. I vote when I feel there is someone worth voting for. If there isnt, I dont vote. But I also dont bitch about stuff. Why shouldnt I deserve the rights I have because I am an American by birth? What about all the illegals I am supporting with MY tax money? WHy do THEY deserve what I work for? Screw that. I cant walk into the Medicaid office and recieve shit when I need it and have worked for years but some illegal can come here give birth to 18 kids and I pay for every damn one of them. How is that right? Have they voted or done jury duty to "earn" that right? NO. SO whay should I?

Your tax money is paying for illegals in this country, true. But by not voting, you've allowed someone else to use YOUR tax money to pay them! Even if illegal immigration is your ONLY principle, find a candidate that shares your views and vote 'em. Illegals are treated in hospitals because that is the cardinal medical law, which federal law doesn't supercede. Get tougher politicians in office and tackle the medical problem in the country.

Your tax money is paying for illegals in this country, true. But by not voting, you've allowed someone else to use YOUR tax money to pay them! Even if illegal immigration is your ONLY principle, find a candidate that shares your views and vote 'em. Illegals are treated in hospitals because that is the cardinal medical law, which federal law doesn't supercede. Get tougher politicians in office and tackle the medical problem in the country.

And you honestly feel that voting new people into office will change all the problems in this country. I guess Im jaded, cause i think it takes more than that.

Your tax money is paying for illegals in this country, true. But by not voting, you've allowed someone else to use YOUR tax money to pay them! Even if illegal immigration is your ONLY principle, find a candidate that shares your views and vote 'em. Illegals are treated in hospitals because that is the cardinal medical law, which federal law doesn't supercede. Get tougher politicians in office and tackle the medical problem in the country.

We can agree to disagree. No politician has ever fixed the immigration policy in this country. Even the ones I voted for.

And you honestly feel that voting new people into office will change all the problems in this country. I guess Im jaded, cause i think it takes more than that.

I think it's a good start myself when you vote someone new into office. There can't be a change without change.

Just adding my 2 cents to that:)

We can agree to disagree. No politician has ever fixed the immigration policy in this country. Even the ones I voted for.

Stop sharing my brain LOL

I dont think hate and i will ever agree on this subject. I think when something becomes mandatory it takes away from the self respect that one gets from doing something good. When you have strings attatched to something that should be something that you want to do, it takes away from the freedom we have in this country.

<--activates flame-retardant shield-->

A citizen shouldn't be defined by their nation of birth. No one should be allowed special privelege simply because of nationality. If one doesn't take part in servitude of their country, state or community, they should be allowed no special privelege.

I find it ironic that people will claim that they feel no obligation to serve the country that serves them, but will use every single resource in our law books to persue an injustice they feel they've been dealt. If you don't serve on jury duty, you shouldn't be allowed a state appointed attorney. If you don't vote, you shouldn't be eligible for WIC, Food Stamps or Welfare.

See, it's not a problem of birth nation, it's a problem of too many citizens saying "Someone else will do it," or, even worse, "Doing these things interferes with my lifestyle." It's this train of thought and inaction that has gotten us where we are now - corrupt court systems, health care and politicians.

For once, I actually disagree with you. I think while all of those things are nice in theory, I don't think its very realistic. I don't think its fair to say that if you don't vote then you shouldn't be eligible for WIC, food stamps, etc. (and yes, I do vote). So people should have to bring proof of their voting to the local WIC office when then apply to get formula and stuff for their kids?...

I think I "serve" my country by having supported my husband while he served in the military. I abide by the laws, I pay my taxes, I volunteer (with/for animals) when I can, I donate money to what I think are worthwhile causes.

I've never had to serve on jury duty, so because of that, should I need a state appointed attorney I shouldn't be entitled to one?? I've always been under the impression that you are required to serve on jury duty. I didn't know it was an option. (hence why employer's have to pay you while you are out at jury duty).

We can agree to disagree. No politician has ever fixed the immigration policy in this country. Even the ones I voted for.

But ya know...it is starting to happen....as a matter of fact the county I live in does not offer services to illegals. That was a decision that was helped along by officials voted into office here in this county. And this isn't the only place that is doing that either.

Another county not too far away from us happens to be one of the first to adopt English as their official language...again, something voted on.

It's not big, but it's a start to change...and that is how change begins.

I am seriously considering not voting anymore. When I've sat and watched 2 elections in a row be won wrongfully, it just puts a horrid taste in my mouth!

Plus, I believe that just by being taxpayers alone, we earn our rights as citizens:wink

When you tell people they have to do these things to be citizens then its not a democracy anymore.

I agree.

For once, I actually disagree with you. I think while all of those things are nice in theory, I don't think its very realistic. I don't think its fair to say that if you don't vote then you shouldn't be eligible for WIC, food stamps, etc. (and yes, I do vote). So people should have to bring proof of their voting to the local WIC office when then apply to get formula and stuff for their kids?...

I think I "serve" my country by having supported my husband while he served in the military. I abide by the laws, I pay my taxes, I volunteer (with/for animals) when I can, I donate money to what I think are worthwhile causes.

I've never had to serve on jury duty, so because of that, should I need a state appointed attorney I shouldn't be entitled to one?? I've always been under the impression that you are required to serve on jury duty. I didn't know it was an option. (hence why employer's have to pay you while you are out at jury duty).


I think I (L) you. I just didnt know how to say all that without coming across bitchy

I am sooo glad you girls are talking about this issue. I have taken this very issue on as a career and have begun to tackle some of this country's biggest problems. I am really enjoying talking to people and informing them of what I think is "civic responsibility".

Essentially anything you have going on in your lives can be connected to politics. Therfore things like our environment, public transit, and any other "public interest" issue is at the forefront of where our responsibilities should lie.

I think I (L) you. I just didnt know how to say all that without coming across bitchy

:D Thank you! I think I (L) you too cause I've been agreeing with your posts all day! :yes

:D Thank you! I think I (L) you too cause I've been agreeing with your posts all day! :yes

you can run off to Mexico with Jenny and me.

you can run off to Mexico with Jenny and me.

I'll pack my sombrero and we can hit the road! :D

i agree with the list you gave except watching the news. Its not for me and I get my news elsewhere.

I think everyone that is physically able, should serve in the military at least 4 years, but that IMO.

I'll pack my sombrero and we can hit the road! :D

Only if she can teach us the hat dance LOL

For once, I actually disagree with you. I think while all of those things are nice in theory, I don't think its very realistic. I don't think its fair to say that if you don't vote then you shouldn't be eligible for WIC, food stamps, etc. (and yes, I do vote). So people should have to bring proof of their voting to the local WIC office when then apply to get formula and stuff for their kids?...

I think I "serve" my country by having supported my husband while he served in the military. I abide by the laws, I pay my taxes, I volunteer (with/for animals) when I can, I donate money to what I think are worthwhile causes.

I've never had to serve on jury duty, so because of that, should I need a state appointed attorney I shouldn't be entitled to one?? I've always been under the impression that you are required to serve on jury duty. I didn't know it was an option. (hence why employer's have to pay you while you are out at jury duty).

Never HAVING to have had served on jury duty is exponentially different than refusing to do it. And yes, voters would be required to have their voter registration information attached to their ID card/Driver's License. You support your husband, you don't serve the country. While some will find this to be entertwinable, the fact is marriage to the military does not constitute service to the country.

Abiding by laws and paying taxes are ways of policing and sustaining a community of people, true. Paying taxes is simply a means of funding projects, not directing the community to a greater cause. It's your money, use your voice.

That being said, this website is also known as a community. By coming on to this website and offering opinions, support and beliefs, you are contributing to the improvement of the community as a whole. Every single post you make that holds your opinions is YOUR expression in the community. Community service is not limited to attending meetings and cleaning out kennels.

Never HAVING to have had served on jury duty is exponentially different than refusing to do it. And yes, voters would be required to have their voter registration information attached to their ID card/Driver's License. You support your husband, you don't serve the country. While some will find this to be entertwinable, the fact is marriage to the military does not constitute service to the country.

Abiding by laws and paying taxes are ways of policing and sustaining a community of people, true. Paying taxes is simply a means of funding projects, not directing the community to a greater cause. It's your money, use your voice.

That being said, this website is also known as a community. By coming on to this website and offering opinions, support and beliefs, you are contributing to the improvement of the community as a whole. Every single post you make that holds your opinions is YOUR expression in the community. Community service is not limited to attending meetings and cleaning out kennels.


BUT how do you NOT SEE that forcing people to vote is not democratic?

Those programs you mentioned with voting, are paid with TAX MONEY, so why shouldnt someone who works beable to use services they help pay for.

I am seriously considering not voting anymore. When I've sat and watched 2 elections in a row be won wrongfully, it just puts a horrid taste in my mouth!

Plus, I believe that just by being taxpayers alone, we earn our rights as citizens:wink

There's more than one election. Local politics impact your life 10,000 times more than the presidential election. It's at this level that even an 18 year old has a shot at running for public office. Find what you're passionate about and vote your conscience - AND you have the luxury of being able to call this politician on the phone, since he's probably living within 10 miles of you.

If you simply pay taxes and don't vote, you're telling the government they can do whatever they want with your money. Obviously, we don't always agree with how our dollars are spent, but since we didn't vote, we can't complain about it.

There's more than one election. Local politics impact your life 10,000 times more than the presidential election. It's at this level that even an 18 year old has a shot at running for public office. Find what you're passionate about and vote your conscience - AND you have the luxury of being able to call this politician on the phone, since he's probably living within 10 miles of you.

If you simply pay taxes and don't vote, you're telling the government they can do whatever they want with your money. Obviously, we don't always agree with how our dollars are spent, but since we didn't vote, we can't complain about it.


No one said anything about complaining about paying taxes, my issue is that I dont want to be forced to do something that is a choice.

BUT how do you NOT SEE that forcing people to vote is not democratic?

Those programs you mentioned with voting, are paid with TAX MONEY, so why shouldnt someone who works beable to use services they help pay for.

I'm not forcing anyone to vote. I'm forcing people who want to be citizens and contribute to the nation to be responsible citizens. People can choose not to be citizens, just as they can choose not to recieve government benefits like WIC. Some people need it. How is it fair that the person who HATES Welfare is paying taxes and voting for stricter politicians, yet his paycheck is still going into the hands of fraudulent recipients? That's not fair, either.

No one said anything about complaining about paying taxes, my issue is that I dont want to be forced to do something that is a choice.

If one wants a grant, they apply for it. If they want a loan, they apply for it. If there are prerequisites to meet, one would work to meet them. This is no different, and we do these things every day now.

If one wants a grant, they apply for it. If they want a loan, they apply for it. If there are prerequisites to meet, one would work to meet them. This is no different, and we do these things every day now.

Um applying for a grant is very dfferent than forcing people to vote to get benefits...Why stop at voting, why dont you put stipulations on everything else? then we can stop being a democratic country?

I'm not forcing anyone to vote. I'm forcing people who want to be citizens and contribute to the nation to be responsible citizens. People can choose not to be citizens, just as they can choose not to recieve government benefits like WIC. Some people need it. How is it fair that the person who HATES Welfare is paying taxes and voting for stricter politicians, yet his paycheck is still going into the hands of fraudulent recipients? That's not fair, either.

Is me accepting WIC considered to you to be fraudulent because I havent voted regularly or served in the military?

Um applying for a grant is very dfferent than forcing people to vote to get benefits...Why stop at voting, why dont you put stipulations on everything else? then we can stop being a democratic country?

How are applying for a grant and voting to be a citizen are different? In both, you have to meet a certain criteria, and if you don't, you're denied the service.

Is me accepting WIC considered to you to be fraudulent because I havent voted regularly or served in the military?

If you sit at home all day, watching TV, playing on the PC and eating food that was all paid for by someone who pays taxes and does their civic duties while you shirk them because they don't make you feel good about yourself, then yes, it should be considered fraudulent

They are very different...NOT everyone needs a grant, organizations CHOOSE to apply for them...What you are saying people either vote or they are screwed.

If you sit at home all day, watching TV, playing on the PC and eating food that was all paid for by someone who pays taxes and does their civic duties while you shirk them because they don't make you feel good about yourself, then yes, it should be considered fraudulent

That was really rude...Actually...

BECAUSE this is a debate and what you consider a civic duty isnt what everyone else does.

How do you know that everyone is just sitting there doing that and they arent doing it for medical reasons.

That was really rude...Actually...

BECAUSE this is a debate and what you consider a civic duty isnt what everyone else does.

How do you know that everyone is just sitting there doing that and they arent doing it for medical reasons.

Debates of opinion are rarely non-pointed. I find it exceedingly rude to put ones own personal pursuit of happiness on a higher scale than anyone elses.

What I consider to be a civic duty varies from person to person. That shouldn't be what concerns those who oppose my view. What SHOULD concern everyone opposing my view is this: I VOTE.

As I stated before, if one is physically incapable of performing civic duties, then they would be required to provide documentation and series of work arounds would be made available, such as "door-to-door" voting booths (which would be a civic service for someone wishing to be a citizen).

They are very different...NOT everyone needs a grant, organizations CHOOSE to apply for them...What you are saying people either vote or they are screwed.

You can CHOOSE to be a citizen. You don't need government assistance. We didn't have it 80 years ago and mankind didn't die out. There's too much reliance on handouts these days.

Never HAVING to have had served on jury duty is exponentially different than refusing to do it. And yes, voters would be required to have their voter registration information attached to their ID card/Driver's License. You support your husband, you don't serve the country. While some will find this to be entertwinable, the fact is marriage to the military does not constitute service to the country.

Abiding by laws and paying taxes are ways of policing and sustaining a community of people, true. Paying taxes is simply a means of funding projects, not directing the community to a greater cause. It's your money, use your voice.

That being said, this website is also known as a community. By coming on to this website and offering opinions, support and beliefs, you are contributing to the improvement of the community as a whole. Every single post you make that holds your opinions is YOUR expression in the community. Community service is not limited to attending meetings and cleaning out kennels.

I take direct offense to that. So my volunteer work doesn't equate to what you think community service should be? So, why don't we just let all the animals run amuck in the streets since its not so important.

I've volunteered in nursing homes, I've helped to feed the homeless, I've donated not only my time but also my money to numerous charity organizations, but because I prefer to work with animals and its what gives me the greatest personal satisfaction, I'm not doing enough to serve my community??...

And I'm sure that since you serve in the military that you don't think supporting one's spouse who is in the military is "serving" the community, but I think you are wrong.

How is paying taxes not contributing to the greater good of your community/society? By funding "projects" or whatever else, it is helping to improve it, it helps to fund schools, road work, not to mention medicaid and other health programs that people so readily use.

So then are you saying that we shouldnt all stand by and be proud of what we believe in?

I think your last post was really harsh...I dont think it was nice to just say that because she doesnt vote or do civic duties by your definition thens she is taking from those people and she is a fraud if she sits at home and eats the food that she gets.

I go back to the agree to disagree, cause I dont want something rude said to me.

So have you used wic before? Did you eat the food that you got with it?

Would you have used it even if you knew that people that paid taxes but didnt vote were funding that program with their TAX dollars?

Well lets see. I do sit on my ass all day and play on the PC. I do recieve WIC. I guess someone better turn me in for fuckin fraud. Call 911.

I worked for years. I have been out of work for 9 weeks. Yep I get WIC and I get Medicaid. I EARNED IT for working and paying all those taxes for years. But its not OK for me to get that stuff. Well we let illegals recieve help all the time and thats ok. Seems kinda fucked up to me.

I take direct offense to that. So my volunteer work doesn't equate to what you think community service should be? So, why don't we just let all the animals run amuck in the streets since its not so important.

I've volunteered in nursing homes, I've helped to feed the homeless, I've donated not only my time but also my money to numerous charity organizations, but because I prefer to work with animals and its what gives me the greatest personal satisfaction, I'm not doing enough to serve my community??...

And I'm sure that since you serve in the military that you don't think supporting one's spouse who is in the military is "serving" the community, but I think you are wrong.

How is paying taxes not contributing to the greater good of your community/society? By funding "projects" or whatever else, it is helping to improve it, it helps to fund schools, road work, not to mention medicaid and other health programs that people so readily use.

I totally AGREE!

Well lets see. I do sit on my ass all day and play on the PC. I do recieve WIC. I guess someone better turn me in for fuckin fraud. Call 911.

I worked for years. I have been out of work for 9 weeks. Yep I get WIC and I get Medicaid. I EARNED IT for working and paying all those taxes for years. But its not OK for me to get that stuff. Well we let illegals recieve help all the time and thats ok. Seems kinda fucked up to me.

I am sorry, i tried to get your back...:sadeyes

And I'm sure that since you serve in the military that you don't think supporting one's spouse who is in the military is "serving" the community, but I think you are wrong.

.

Actually you are wrong about that. He knows what I do as a military spouse and such

Just a little tip guys:
Hatetank has always played devils advocate and loves to debate. Debating isnt about personal beliefs and opinions to him. its debating the issue at hand.

I take direct offense to that. So my volunteer work doesn't equate to what you think community service should be? So, why don't we just let all the animals run amuck in the streets since its not so important.

I've volunteered in nursing homes, I've helped to feed the homeless, I've donated not only my time but also my money to numerous charity organizations, but because I prefer to work with animals and its what gives me the greatest personal satisfaction, I'm not doing enough to serve my community??...

And I'm sure that since you serve in the military that you don't think supporting one's spouse who is in the military is "serving" the community, but I think you are wrong.

How is paying taxes not contributing to the greater good of your community/society? By funding "projects" or whatever else, it is helping to improve it, it helps to fund schools, road work, not to mention medicaid and other health programs that people so readily use.

Please read the entire sentence. I said that community service IS NOT LIMITED TO those things. Please get angry at me for the debate, not a mistranslation! Doing ANY service that improves the community is highly admirable, no matter how menial it may seem.

By paying taxes and NOT voting, you're allowing politicians to do what they will with your money. You're giving the community a blank check and saying "Do what you will!"

So then are you saying that we shouldnt all stand by and be proud of what we believe in?

I think your last post was really harsh...I dont think it was nice to just say that because she doesnt vote or do civic duties by your definition thens she is taking from those people and she is a fraud if she sits at home and eats the food that she gets.

I go back to the agree to disagree, cause I dont want something rude said to me.

I have yet to define a list of "acceptable" civic duties to my standard. There IS NO acceptable as each community has a different list of needs.

Now, to add fuel to this fire, you're saying it's completely acceptable for someone to get services for free, paid for by taxpayers, yet clearly are against illegal immigrants getting services for free (while the illegal immigrants EMPLOYER is the one at fault for not paying taxes, not the worker).

But even if you vote, when does it change?

This country has wanted better health care but it never happens...

I guess voting and never seeing results has jaded me.

I have yet to define a list of "acceptable" civic duties to my standard. There IS NO acceptable as each community has a different list of needs.

Now, to add fuel to this fire, you're saying it's completely acceptable for someone to get services for free, paid for by taxpayers, yet clearly are against illegal immigrants getting services for free (while the illegal immigrants EMPLOYER is the one at fault for not paying taxes, not the worker).

Not but you have clearly stated that voting shouldnt be a choice anymore.

Well lets see. I do sit on my ass all day and play on the PC. I do recieve WIC. I guess someone better turn me in for fuckin fraud. Call 911.

I worked for years. I have been out of work for 9 weeks. Yep I get WIC and I get Medicaid. I EARNED IT for working and paying all those taxes for years. But its not OK for me to get that stuff. Well we let illegals recieve help all the time and thats ok. Seems kinda fucked up to me.

As of today, you're not a fraud. I'm simply laying out arguments of a society where people support their community instead of living off of it. You're making the assumption that you can be a citizen (under the doctrine I'm outlining) one day and not the next. Under my doctrine, you wouldn't be out of work, you'd be gainfully employed in civil functions.

Also wanted to add that I vote, but I don't hold it against other people who don't vote. To each their own. I would never say that someone couldn't get WIC, medicaid or whatever else because they didn't vote.

And so what if someone stays home all day. These women should be commended for deciding to be a stay at home parent and giving their time and energy to their children, spouse & home. And if that family needs to get WIC because they are a 1-income family or they just don't make enough, then so be it! I'm glad my tax dollars can help another family in need!

I stay at home all day now because I have a medical condition and I'm forced to stay home. Doesn't mean I'm not a good "citizen". I vote where and when I feel necessary. I shouldn't be denied anything because I don't vote in all the elections.

Not but you have clearly stated that voting shouldnt be a choice anymore.

Voting is and would be a choice. The only difference is you wouldn't be a citizen if you don't vote. If you don't "care" enough to improve the community, why should the community support you? That's the foundation, anyway.

Never HAVING to have had served on jury duty is exponentially different than refusing to do it. And yes, voters would be required to have their voter registration information attached to their ID card/Driver's License. You support your husband, you don't serve the country. While some will find this to be entertwinable, the fact is marriage to the military does not constitute service to the country.

See, I highly disagree with this statement. Military families go through a lot while supporting a service member through a career. The countless moves, the seperations, kids changing schools.......I could go on. I have even heard the president himself thank military FAMILIES for their sacrifice and service to their country. As much as I dislike Bush, I agree with his view on that 100%

Voting is and would be a choice. The only difference is you wouldn't be a citizen if you don't vote. If you don't "care" enough to improve the community, why should the community support you? That's the foundation, anyway.

Do you study a lot of communist/non-democratic countries?

Actually you are wrong about that. He knows what I do as a military spouse and such

Just a little tip guys:
Hatetank has always played devils advocate and loves to debate. Debating isnt about personal beliefs and opinions to him. its debating the issue at hand.

Sorry Kristi, but if he knows what you do as a military spouse, then he shouldn't have said it. JMO though.

Sorry Kristi, but if he knows what you do as a military spouse, then he shouldn't have said it. JMO though.

I agree..

See, I highly disagree with this statement. Military families go through a lot while supporting a service member through a career. The countless moves, the seperations, kids changing schools.......I could go on. I have even heard the president himself thank military FAMILIES for their sacrifice and service to their country. As much as I dislike Bush, I agree with his view on that 100%

:tu I complete agree with that.

Also wanted to add that I vote, but I don't hold it against other people who don't vote. To each their own. I would never say that someone couldn't get WIC, medicaid or whatever else because they didn't vote.

And so what if someone stays home all day. These women should be commended for deciding to be a stay at home parent and giving their time and energy to their children, spouse & home. And if that family needs to get WIC because they are a 1-income family or they just don't make enough, then so be it! I'm glad my tax dollars can help another family in need!

I stay at home all day now because I have a medical condition and I'm forced to stay home. Doesn't mean I'm not a good "citizen". I vote where and when I feel necessary. I shouldn't be denied anything because I don't vote in all the elections.

How about the broodmare who has 7 kids with 6 different fathers, unwed, unable to afford childcare thus unable to work, using YOUR tax dollars to pay for drugs and alcohol? She's living in a house provided by the government, which just happens to be next door to your family because PPV is authorized to admit Section 8 people into housing? Is THIS ok?

And again, as I stated, medical conditions are completely understandable and reasonable. If you still perform as a citizen, such as supporting a community through a message board, then there's no reason why your citizenship should be revoked. You don't have to vote in ALL elections, just the ones that affect your community.

How about the broodmare who has 7 kids with 6 different fathers, unwed, unable to afford childcare thus unable to work, using YOUR tax dollars to pay for drugs and alcohol? She's living in a house provided by the government, which just happens to be next door to your family because PPV is authorized to admit Section 8 people into housing? Is THIS ok?

And again, as I stated, medical conditions are completely understandable and reasonable. If you still perform as a citizen, such as supporting a community through a message board, then there's no reason why your citizenship should be revoked. You don't have to vote in ALL elections, just the ones that affect your community.

You may have a point...

But you know my mother and father told me to never pass judgement on those people, because you will NEVER EVER know what is going to happen to you in your future...

How about the broodmare who has 7 kids with 6 different fathers, unwed, unable to afford childcare thus unable to work, using YOUR tax dollars to pay for drugs and alcohol? She's living in a house provided by the government, which just happens to be next door to your family because PPV is authorized to admit Section 8 people into housing? Is THIS ok?

And again, as I stated, medical conditions are completely understandable and reasonable. If you still perform as a citizen, such as supporting a community through a message board, then there's no reason why your citizenship should be revoked. You don't have to vote in ALL elections, just the ones that affect your community.

I'd rather my tax dollars went to her and her kids than some illegal and ther 25 family members

Do you study a lot of communist/non-democratic countries?

Do I study it? Heck, since I've been in this debate, I've been lying out the principles for a democratic shift to Marxism. Every post I've made is a step we would take if we were to become a COMMUNIST country. Communists, BTW, got about 2.6% of the votes in the presidential election not that long ago.

Hrmmm... got quiet all the sudden.

I KNOW you guys didn't forget that I never post my personal opinions on stuff, right?

(ETA - Unless I come out and SAY it's my opinion, which should be quite rare. Debates are a discussion of topics, not opinions.)

So are you doing this to get our panties in a bunch?

So are you doing this to get our panties in a bunch?

Good thing I dont wear panties

LOL Lissa LOL

How about the broodmare who has 7 kids with 6 different fathers, unwed, unable to afford childcare thus unable to work, using YOUR tax dollars to pay for drugs and alcohol? She's living in a house provided by the government, which just happens to be next door to your family because PPV is authorized to admit Section 8 people into housing? Is THIS ok?

And again, as I stated, medical conditions are completely understandable and reasonable. If you still perform as a citizen, such as supporting a community through a message board, then there's no reason why your citizenship should be revoked. You don't have to vote in ALL elections, just the ones that affect your community.

Well, for me this would be okay. I don't really hold people on assistance to live up to some set standard. Sure there are going to be ones with problems so bad that they can no longer better themselves and are sort of stuck living on assistance. I can only hope that eventually they will make better of their lives but it's also not my life to live (or dictate) even if I give them money.

I trust my government to divide it out appropriately, beyond that I don't really give a damn!

I'm not one to venture into debates too often but I kept seeing the phrase "making us a non democratic country" thrown around by people who admittedly do not vote. This really bothered me, both because it goes against the very principles of democracy, and for a more personal reasons, because your SO is in the military and the decisions made by the government directly affect his life. It would border on hypocritical for someone to say they are angry with tricare or whatever but then don't exercise their right to vote for people who can get these things changed.

The very idea of democracy is based on the idea that all citizens vote to elect people who will best represent their needs/wants and through these equally elected representatives everyone in the country will have a voice, thereby establishing a fair and equal country for all. While the idea of a fair and equal country for all my be idealistic, the principles behind it are not. By not voting, you are not only denying yourself the right to complain but you are denying yourself the most intrinsic, important aspect of democracy. Without voting, there is no democracy.

Nope I dont vote all the time.

And this is why. The majority of politicians tell you what you want to hear and as soon as they are elected do nothing that they said they would. MOst dont even try.

I'm not one to venture into debates too often but I kept seeing the phrase "making us a non democratic country" thrown around by people who admittedly do not vote. This really bothered me, both because it goes against the very principles of democracy, and for a more personal reasons, because your SO is in the military and the decisions made by the government directly affect his life. It would border on hypocritical for someone to say they are angry with tricare or whatever but then don't exercise their right to vote for people who can get these things changed.

The very idea of democracy is based on the idea that all citizens vote to elect people who will best represent their needs/wants and through these equally elected representatives everyone in the country will have a voice, thereby establishing a fair and equal country for all. While the idea of a fair and equal country for all my be idealistic, the principles behind it are not. By not voting, you are not only denying yourself the right to complain but you are denying yourself the most intrinsic, important aspect of democracy. Without voting, there is no democracy.

The healthcare insurance industry is mainly a private venture. For the most part our government doesn't do jack about changing what our PRIVATE insurance companies do and won't do:tired

I have to agree that if you pay taxes you should vote. If you don't vote I ofcourse don't hold it against you....but you can't complain about how money is used and spent by the government if you choose to not help decide where it goes.

I have worked and paid taxes for almost 20 years and will always vote no matter how things may or may not be changing...thats just me. But I do think it's very wrong to say that things are not changing, because they are...it may not be this big noticeable change heard all over the news and through out the world, but it's happening. It's happening in a small way which is better than nothing. I see it in my state government and in all the smaller city and county governments in my state along with several others. Change has to start somewhere....and if it's small, so be it because it will help to lead to bigger changes one day.

I agree that there are politicians (and especially in regards to the private healthcare industry and MIC!) that don't do what they promise but I don't think that is a reason to give up trying. We have to continue to vote for people we support in an effort to change things, no matter how futile it may seem. My vote may not end up changing much, but it might. Not voting will definitely not change anything.

I have to agree that if you pay taxes you should vote. If you don't vote I ofcourse don't hold it against you....but you can't complain about how money is used and spent by the government if you choose to not help decide where it goes.

I have worked and paid taxes for almost 20 years and will always vote no matter how things may or may not be changing...thats just me. But I do think it's very wrong to say that things are not changing, because they are...it may not be this big noticeable change heard all over the news and through out the world, but it's happening. It's happening in a small way which is better than nothing. I see it in my state government and in all the smaller city and county governments in my state along with several others. Change has to start somewhere....and if it's small, so be it because it will help to lead to bigger changes one day.

:agree

Other than serving in the military, how much community service do you do?

Well for me I am very active in my son's school it is my way of serving my community. I served in the Navy for just under eight years so I think I served my country well.

I vote because I think if you can't bother to take the time to vote then you have no right to complain if you don't like who is in any office or about what laws are made, or how your taxes are spent. After all if you didn't educate yourself on the issues/politicians and haul your ass to the voting booth then that is your fault.

Never been called up for jury duty, so not much I can say about it.

I think the best way to put it is what JFK said "Ask not what your country can do for you, BUT what YOU can do for your country." If you don't do anything to change things then how can you complain that you don't like how it is. Or even better if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navywife-sweetheart


And I'm sure that since you serve in the military that you don't think supporting one's spouse who is in the military is "serving" the community, but I think you are wrong.



Actually you are wrong about that. He knows what I do as a military spouse and such
*snip*

I agree, I have been in the military & am now a military spouse it is not the same. As a military member I was serving my country. As a spouse I support my husband. It doesn't require the same sacrifice or commitment that serving in the Navy did. I can't say that my support of him keeps him serving either because he was serving just fine without a family.

If anything we make it harder because now he not only has work stress but also the stress of being away from me & the boys. As a single sailor he would not have that going on.

I don't think voting is stressed enough to younger people like it used to be back when my parents were young. (my parents are in their 60s) It's staggering the percentage of people that actually make the effort to come to the polls... it's usually less than 50% of registered voters especially in non-Presidential elections. That just amazes me.

Now Jury Duty is (to me) a civic duty and one that you won't get out of without a valid excuse.

Found this quote and found it refreshingly "old school":

"every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty"- John D.Rockefeller Jr

I agree, I have been in the military & am now a military spouse it is not the same. As a military member I was serving my country. As a spouse I support my husband. It doesn't require the same sacrifice or commitment that serving in the Navy did. I can't say that my support of him keeps him serving either because he was serving just fine without a family.

If anything we make it harder because now he not only has work stress but also the stress of being away from me & the boys. As a single sailor he would not have that going on.

I obviously know that the two (being a service member and being the spouse of a service member) are 2 different things. But, in supporting your spouse who is a service member, I FEEL, that it is of some service to the society in which we live.

My husband isn't even in the military anymore, and I still feel the same about every other spouse who's husband continues to serve. Just as much as I respect, admire and appreciate what service members do for this country.

I'd rather my tax dollars went to her and her kids than some illegal and ther 25 family members

I agree.

Hrmmm... got quiet all the sudden.

I KNOW you guys didn't forget that I never post my personal opinions on stuff, right?

(ETA - Unless I come out and SAY it's my opinion, which should be quite rare. Debates are a discussion of topics, not opinions.)

I think you may have lost people when you made that remark about people staying home...

Sorry folks, my internet service provider decided to do maintenance RIGHT as I went to post a response earlier tonight. I chose the communism side of the debate to show people how inaction CAN lead to a catastrophic failure of the democratic process. Any student who's taken a debate class will tell you that you that a debate is nothing more than an index card with a couple sentences on it, and you're not allowed your own opinion as argument.

Voting is detremental to the process. I know a few of the readers here were secretly agreeing with concepts I was laying out - some of whom vote, some not. Those who did vote would vote for this type of action, seemingly the patriotic thing to do - even though the destination was everything they stood against. Voting is detremental - KNOWING what you're voting for is paramount.

I make no apologies for my side of the debate. I feel I argued it fair and well and can only hope you've strengthened your resolve in your decisions.

While I think you made some good points I myself would not vote for anything that made civic duties mandatory.

I'm not one to venture into debates too often but I kept seeing the phrase "making us a non democratic country" thrown around by people who admittedly do not vote. This really bothered me, both because it goes against the very principles of democracy, and for a more personal reasons, because your SO is in the military and the decisions made by the government directly affect his life. It would border on hypocritical for someone to say they are angry with tricare or whatever but then don't exercise their right to vote for people who can get these things changed.

The very idea of democracy is based on the idea that all citizens vote to elect people who will best represent their needs/wants and through these equally elected representatives everyone in the country will have a voice, thereby establishing a fair and equal country for all. While the idea of a fair and equal country for all my be idealistic, the principles behind it are not. By not voting, you are not only denying yourself the right to complain but you are denying yourself the most intrinsic, important aspect of democracy. Without voting, there is no democracy.

First of all, tricare is what the what the military chooses to use, so people voting isnt going to change that.

Second of all just because people dont vote in every single election doesnt mean that they are hypocrites and cant use the phrase democratic...Have you voted in every single tiny election, or do you just vote in the big ones?

And just because my husband was in the military, it was his job, I have my own. And he and I dont agree on the canidates for president, so me not voting the way he thinks I guess would make me a bad person. I have my own job and my own sets of beliefs, I vote for who I think would be a great canidate, not for the person who would have helped my husband. I have a my own mind.

I dont mean to sound harsh, but your post struck a nerve with me and I am sorry.

ya i know i am late on this lol but i just woke up... i cant belive i missed this one!

I think that it was completley wrong to say that as a spouse you arent serving your country. Have you ever heard the phrase "military spouse, the hardest job in the military" They say that for a reason. We may not have to be up at 6am for pt and working late hours, but what are we doing at home. Those of us with kids know its us that gets up every 4 hours with the baby cause daddy or mommy has pt at 6am. It is the spouse that make sure everything at home is in good shape. It is the spouses that nagg for re-enlistment and keep our service members in the military, and It is the spouses that keep their men saine after a hells day at work so that they can go back tomorrow and not kill the guy that pissed them off the day before. Every person in the military plays a role. whether it be the service member or the famliy of the service member. Not every person is cut out for the military. I know I couldnt do it. Maybe it is because i am lazy and lack the discipline, but I also know that I dont want to leave my children. Both their father and my husband are in the military and i dont think it would be good for them if i went in too.

when I was 16, I got preggo with my 1st baby. I was on medicade and wic cause my moms medical insurance didnt cover my pregnancy. When i applied for medicade, they told me about WIC. I remember in school one day someone made a comment about me being on medicade that made me feel like shit, ~because I was only 16, I hadnt worked long enough to pay enough taxes to pay for my services and I shouldnt have been "mouching" off the goverment~ I went home and talked to my now ex MIL and she told me... I have never used any govt help and I am retired so I guess you can have mine... IT made me feel so much better. I hadnt thought about that. what about the millions of americans who dont take advantage of govt help because they dont need or are like my mother and are too proud. My mother will NEVER admit that she needs help.


I dont vote simply because i dont agree with enough of what the people are saying. I agree with a lot of democratic stuff, BUT not all and I agree with alot of republican stuff, BUT not all. The stuff I dont agree on is stuff that i just cant turn my back on and just deal with it. I am registered to vote though... I just exercise my right not to vote. And I dont bitch about what happens in office. Mostly cause i dont understand politics at all. Its not something i have ever really been interested in.


Part of being an american citizen is having the RIGHT to make choices based on what is best for you.

I think I wanna go to mexico with you gals, i can teach you the mexican hat dance:getdown:dance

Sorry folks, my internet service provider decided to do maintenance RIGHT as I went to post a response earlier tonight. I chose the communism side of the debate to show people how inaction CAN lead to a catastrophic failure of the democratic process. Any student who's taken a debate class will tell you that you that a debate is nothing more than an index card with a couple sentences on it, and you're not allowed your own opinion as argument.

Voting is detremental to the process. I know a few of the readers here were secretly agreeing with concepts I was laying out - some of whom vote, some not. Those who did vote would vote for this type of action, seemingly the patriotic thing to do - even though the destination was everything they stood against. Voting is detremental - KNOWING what you're voting for is paramount.

I make no apologies for my side of the debate. I feel I argued it fair and well and can only hope you've strengthened your resolve in your decisions.

While I think some of your comments were unnecessary, I will still stand that I generally agree with almost everything you have to say. Just not in this thread. :)

I myself would not vote for anything that made civic duties mandatory.

I agree, neither would I.

While I think some of your comments were unnecessary, I will still stand that I generally agree with almost everything you have to say. Just not in this thread. :)

All arguments were necessary, though I do imagine a communist politician would have a hard time selling military spouse support isn't a civic duty to people like us. Since I didn't have time to run a mock "spouse-empowerment/servitude" campaign to build on your values of personal self worth, I took the only stance I could. It was harsh, but I can promise you that there are politicians out there right now, running for president, that will do the exact same thing. Voting doesn't have to mean voting for a winner - it can also be used to make sure a lesser of two evils isn't elected.

All arguments were necessary, though I do imagine a communist politician would have a hard time selling military spouse support isn't a civic duty to people like us. Since I didn't have time to run a mock "spouse-empowerment/servitude" campaign to build on your values of personal self worth, I took the only stance I could. It was harsh, but I can promise you that there are politicians out there right now, running for president, that will do the exact same thing. Voting doesn't have to mean voting for a winner - it can also be used to make sure a lesser of two evils isn't elected.

You are a butt! gettin us all worked up LOL

First of all, tricare is what the what the military chooses to use, so people voting isnt going to change that.

Second of all just because people dont vote in every single election doesnt mean that they are hypocrites and cant use the phrase democratic...Have you voted in every single tiny election, or do you just vote in the big ones?

And just because my husband was in the military, it was his job, I have my own. And he and I dont agree on the canidates for president, so me not voting the way he thinks I guess would make me a bad person. I have my own job and my own sets of beliefs, I vote for who I think would be a great canidate, not for the person who would have helped my husband. I have a my own mind.

I dont mean to sound harsh, but your post struck a nerve with me and I am sorry.

Tricare can lose it's contract just as quickly as any other contractor. Vote for politicians that share your view of healthcare. This is a hot topic these days, so this information will be widely available. With the right politicians in place, Tricare CAN be forced to comply to new standards which will cost them money, which adversely means they'll have to lose money or drop the contract. Nothing is more dangerous in a democracy than an educated voter.

Voting your mind is your responsibility to the democracy; supporting your husband is your responsibility to yourself. Supporting your husband does not mean blindly following his every decision and not voicing opinion on topics you're unsure of. NO ONE should be allowed to think for you. EVER.

You are a butt! gettin us all worked up LOL

You have to admit, there are points to that program that you agreed with. While apparently it wasn't mandatory voting (which would be abolished 3 seconds after the elected official took office) and community service for citizenship didn't sway you, balanced incomes and jobs for EVERYONE is appealing, as is the harsher sentencing for drug users and other societal parasites.

An average communist politician could have sold you on just a portion of his campaign, and if you stopped asking questions, would have doomed the US to everything we're against.

And I absolutely love it that people disagreed with me, pretty much on every level - it means there are astute people there who care enough to ask questions instead of saying "Someone else will ask..."

I agree, neither would I.

For both of you guys here, what about the Amber Alert? Don't you consider responding to the alert that's in your area your civic duty? It's not a law to follow, but don't you think it should be? Shouldn't a witness, who knew about the alert but does nothing, be held LEGALLY responsible?

I would vote for that, and I'm extremely frugile about how and who I vote for.

Nope I dont think that responding to an amber alert is a civic duty

For both of you guys here, what about the Amber Alert? Don't you consider responding to the alert that's in your area your civic duty? It's not a law to follow, but don't you think it should be? Shouldn't a witness, who knew about the alert but does nothing, be held LEGALLY responsible?

I would vote for that, and I'm extremely frugile about how and who I vote for.

Well how do you hold someone legally responsible or not? How do you know who saw the child and who didn't...how can you prove that? If there is an Amber Alert in my area, and if I were to be around that particular location, then ofcourse I would keep a lookout for the child.

I just don't think its possible to hold people legally responsible for it. Plenty of people could NOT know that the Amber alert had been issued, see the child and whoevever the abductor is, but not know that the child has been taken. So just because they were a witness, but may have not known what was going on, doesn't mean they should be held legally responsible for it.

Tricare can lose it's contract just as quickly as any other contractor. Vote for politicians that share your view of healthcare. This is a hot topic these days, so this information will be widely available. With the right politicians in place, Tricare CAN be forced to comply to new standards which will cost them money, which adversely means they'll have to lose money or drop the contract. Nothing is more dangerous in a democracy than an educated voter.

Voting your mind is your responsibility to the democracy; supporting your husband is your responsibility to yourself. Supporting your husband does not mean blindly following his every decision and not voicing opinion on topics you're unsure of. NO ONE should be allowed to think for you. EVER.

I'm not sure where that is coming from. Did someone say that they vote the way their spouse does? If so, I must have missed that.

I personally vote for who I think is best. If my husband disagrees, then so be it. He can vote for who he wants, and I'll vote for who I want.

I'm not sure where that is coming from. Did someone say that they vote the way their spouse does? If so, I must have missed that.

I personally vote for who I think is best. If my husband disagrees, then so be it. He can vote for who he wants, and I'll vote for who I want.

Not here on this board, no. I've heard an astonishing amount of people say they vote how their spouse votes because they have no interest in politics. This comes mostly from our grandparents generation where women were considered subservient in the household. I pointed this out as an agreement with those who still vote their minds, not their marriage.

Well how do you hold someone legally responsible or not? How do you know who saw the child and who didn't...how can you prove that? If there is an Amber Alert in my area, and if I were to be around that particular location, then ofcourse I would keep a lookout for the child.

I just don't think its possible to hold people legally responsible for it. Plenty of people could NOT know that the Amber alert had been issued, see the child and whoevever the abductor is, but not know that the child has been taken. So just because they were a witness, but may have not known what was going on, doesn't mean they should be held legally responsible for it.

It'd be difficult to prove sure, and like most people, you'd respond to the alert because you feel a since of duty - to protect the life of an innocent. Most all of us would. I have no idea how it could be proven (other than cell phone records for alerts, highway signs and ones proximity, etc..) but I feel passionately enough about protecting one who can't protect themself. Obviously, sentencing child molesters/abuctors isn't strict enough to disuade them. More witnesses in an area would certainly curtail those endeavors.

It'd be difficult to prove sure, and like most people, you'd respond to the alert because you feel a since of duty - to protect the life of an innocent. Most all of us would. I have no idea how it could be proven (other than cell phone records for alerts, highway signs and ones proximity, etc..) but I feel passionately enough about protecting one who can't protect themself. Obviously, sentencing child molesters/abuctors isn't strict enough to disuade them. More witnesses in an area would certainly curtail those endeavors.

Well I completely agree with that statement. The punishment certainly isn't severe enough to help prevent it from happening, and that's sad.

Well I completely agree with that statement. The punishment certainly isn't severe enough to help prevent it from happening, and that's sad.

It's REALLY sad, I agree. Since punishment isn't working, disuasion should be tried. States that have concealed weapon laws have lower firearm related incidents (per capita). Not knowing who has a gun really disuades a crook from mugging someone at random. I'm convinced the same thing can happen with the Amber Alert. It may sound kind of "Big Brother"ish.

It's REALLY sad, I agree. Since punishment isn't working, disuasion should be tried. States that have concealed weapon laws have lower firearm related incidents (per capita). Not knowing who has a gun really disuades a crook from mugging someone at random. I'm convinced the same thing can happen with the Amber Alert. It may sound kind of "Big Brother"ish.

Well, I think your ideology is good. You want the country to be alot better than what it is now, and I can respect that.

Yes someone did say something like that in an early post and it REALLY pissed me off...Its a few pages back, I am not sure where. it made it seem that i should vote because of my husbands job.

I know that everything in the govt is contract, believe i deal with that crap every single day. But how people loose contracts is by bids, not by votes.

I hate to say this, but i had fun debating this with the three or four of us. ;o) eventhough he got me wound up and angry LOL

I'm not one to venture into debates too often but I kept seeing the phrase "making us a non democratic country" thrown around by people who admittedly do not vote. This really bothered me, both because it goes against the very principles of democracy, and for a more personal reasons, because your SO is in the military and the decisions made by the government directly affect his life. It would border on hypocritical for someone to say they are angry with tricare or whatever but then don't exercise their right to vote for people who can get these things changed.

The very idea of democracy is based on the idea that all citizens vote to elect people who will best represent their needs/wants and through these equally elected representatives everyone in the country will have a voice, thereby establishing a fair and equal country for all. While the idea of a fair and equal country for all my be idealistic, the principles behind it are not. By not voting, you are not only denying yourself the right to complain but you are denying yourself the most intrinsic, important aspect of democracy. Without voting, there is no democracy.

Navywife-Sweetheart, this is the post.

Yes someone did say something like that in an early post and it REALLY pissed me off...Its a few pages back, I am not sure where. it made it seem that i should vote because of my husbands job.

I know that everything in the govt is contract, believe i deal with that crap every single day. But how people loose contracts is by bids, not by votes.

I hate to say this, but i had fun debating this with the three or four of us. ;o) eventhough he got me wound up and angry LOL

Tricare would have to raise their bid to cover the costs of restrictions, etc. put out by federal government. Raising their cost means they have to bid higher, thus run greater risk of losing the contract.

It wasn't "fun" for me, persay, debating as a commie. But, it sure showed me how easy it would be for some of them to come into office if they chose to not label themselves as a communist on the ballot.

Thanks for making me see the other side.