what do you think about this for schools?

ETA: zero tolerance for drugs, weapons, etc etc

As long as a zero tolerance policy includes intervention, counseling, and the school tries to help the student and their family, I am all for it.

Any zero tolerance policy that would kick out a student and wash their hands of them, leaving another school to possibly deal with them instead, I don't agree with.

my high school had such a strong zero tolerance policy that anything that remotely looked like medication even in your car warranted a search. i think zero tolerance for drugs on campus, weapons and such is a good thing but something like the car searching thing i have a problem with

As long as a zero tolerance policy includes intervention, counseling, and the school tries to help the student and their family, I am all for it.

Any zero tolerance policy that would kick out a student and wash their hands of them, leaving another school to possibly deal with them instead, I don't agree with.

Well said! :yes

The problem with "zero tolerance" is that it leaves no room for a case-by-case analysis. It leads to situations where plastic knives in lunch boxes or tylenol in your purse would be grounds for mandatory expulsion.

As long as a zero tolerance policy includes intervention, counseling, and the school tries to help the student and their family, I am all for it.

Any zero tolerance policy that would kick out a student and wash their hands of them, leaving another school to possibly deal with them instead, I don't agree with.

I agree. I think they should work with the student, especially when it comes to drugs. Maybe not weapons though. I don't think if a student comes to school with a gun shouldn't be allowed back easily.

I agree to an extent. I mean, sure we all want our children safe at school, thats a given. But when it involves searching vehicles after someone tells them you MAY have drugs or something, its out of line.

There was a ZT policy in affect at my HS for fights. I got kicked out for simply defending myself to a school yard bully for 10 days. I feel that punishment was rather harsh. Now, weapons and stuff like that.. Sure, expell the little brat if he/she brings a gun or knife to school.

As with everything, I think there should be serious guidelines when enforcing the law. I dont feel as though it should be ok to search someones car unless a warrant is issued by the police department.

Was this a spin-off from my thread? :giggle

The problem with "zero tolerance" is that it leaves no room for a case-by-case analysis. It leads to situations where plastic knives in lunch boxes or tylenol in your purse would be grounds for mandatory expulsion.

Yeah..exactly. I remember a girl getting suspended for 2 days for bringing ibprofen to school my senior year. She was 18, and had really bad cramps. I thought it was ridiculous. A simple, "hey don't do that again, the nurse has those meds for you", would have sufficed.

The problem with "zero tolerance" is that it leaves no room for a case-by-case analysis. It leads to situations where plastic knives in lunch boxes or tylenol in your purse would be grounds for mandatory expulsion.

I agree.

Yeah, I agree about the case by case basis...

As long as a zero tolerance policy includes intervention, counseling, and the school tries to help the student and their family, I am all for it.

Any zero tolerance policy that would kick out a student and wash their hands of them, leaving another school to possibly deal with them instead, I don't agree with.

I agree.

As long as a zero tolerance policy includes intervention, counseling, and the school tries to help the student and their family, I am all for it.

Any zero tolerance policy that would kick out a student and wash their hands of them, leaving another school to possibly deal with them instead, I don't agree with.

I like your thoughts on it! I had never thought that much about it.

I do know that a lot of times kids are kicked out or suspended for unnecessary reasons with this policy. I knew a 5 year old that packed a butterknife because she needed it for lunch. Mom didn't know till she got a call from the school. The child had been suspended pending administrative action. Now that I consider excessive, but I know the policy has to cover everyone.

Our schools here are crappy with their rules and such on a lot of that stuff. There is no personal aspect left with it all, it's just stupid rules with uncaring ppl.

I agree with Wicked case by case is better then ZT.

I don't really like ZT because there is no varying degrees of severity. A real knife vs. a butterknife is a completely different issue... I can't justify kicking someone out of school because of a plastic knife that was only used for lunch but I could justify kicking a child out for a real knife that most likely was there to harm someone.

This reminds me of a case I just read about that happened near my hometown in Oregon. Two boys participated in something they named "slap-butt day" where they ran down the halls slapping girls on the butt. These were 8th graders and they were caught, the police were called and the children were interrogated for hours. Then they were toted off to jail in cuffs, spent 5 days in jail. For 24 hours they weren't allowed to contact their parents and some school official (now I can't remember his title) wanted to press charges for them to go to prison and be labeled for life as sexual predators.

It just blows my mind that this wasn't handled on the school level... Detention, Thursday school, Saturday school. Stuff like this happened when I was in school, even elementary school and those were the actions taken. Even the girls who had been slapped did not want to press charges and eventually charges were dropped. But to me there is a huge difference between some prank like that and an actual sexual assault on someone. Do I think the boys were wrong? Yes but sending them to jail in cuffs and trying to label them for life as sexual predators is waaaay overboard.

The punishment needs to fit the crime, more needs to be done to reprimand and then educate/counsel children who are breaking rules.

This reminds me of a case I just read about that happened near my hometown in Oregon. Two boys participated in something they named "slap-butt day" where they ran down the halls slapping girls on the butt. These were 8th graders and they were caught, the police were called and the children were interrogated for hours. Then they were toted off to jail in cuffs, spent 5 days in jail. For 24 hours they weren't allowed to contact their parents and some school official (now I can't remember his title) wanted to press charges for them to go to prison and be labeled for life as sexual predators.


OT/TJ - where in Oregon are you from? I ask because I lived in McMinnville (where that case took place) for four years and still LOVE that area/miss it.

I think it's a good thing, but sometimes schools take it too far. When my youngest brother was in 4th grade, he brought a set of numbchucks(fake ones) to school one day for show and tell and he ended up getting arrested for it! THey were plastic things that my mom had bought him from wal mart and were in NO WAY a weapon, but he got arrested and suspended for bringing a weapon to school!! I think that's a bit ridiculous, but the policy is (usually) and over all a good thing. Sad that elementry schools have to have such a policy, but the idea behind it is a good one.

I am all for ZT. In each childs hand book the rules are clearly written. I feel as though it's the parents responsibility to go over the rules often with their children so that the child is reminded of what's expected of them. The school our son will be going to is a very strict school and I love that. I love knowing that while he is in the hands of others his safety comes first.

Side note on the knife and butt slapping, while both punishments are harsh you have to have an across the board punishment or kids will learn how work their way around the system.

As long as a zero tolerance policy includes intervention, counseling, and the school tries to help the student and their family, I am all for it.

Any zero tolerance policy that would kick out a student and wash their hands of them, leaving another school to possibly deal with them instead, I don't agree with.

I agree

I agree


So, out of curiosity.. You think its Ok, that they give the kid that brought a plastic knife to school the same punishment as the kid that brought a switchblade to school?

Trust me, im 100% for saftey in a school. I have a precious 5 year old little girl going. But, I dont feel zero tolerance is the correct way of handling it.

So, out of curiosity.. You think its Ok, that they give the kid that brought a plastic knife to school the same punishment as the kid that brought a switchblade to school?

Trust me, im 100% for saftey in a school. I have a precious 5 year old little girl going. But, I dont feel zero tolerance is the correct way of handling it.

This wasn't directed at me but I'll answer. I DO think it's ok that she got the same punishment because and ONLY because it was clearly stated in her student handbook that weapons of ANY KIND are punishable by (whatever the punishment is). I'm not saying it's fair but rules are rules and if we teach our children at a young age that they can skirt around the rules where does that lead them in the future? Another thing, where was the girl's mother? Why didn't she check the lunch box or back pack? Time can't be a reason as it takes seconds to open a bag and look in it.

This wasn't directed at me but I'll answer. I DO think it's ok that she got the same punishment because and ONLY because it was clearly stated in her student handbook that weapons of ANY KIND are punishable by (whatever the punishment is). I'm not saying it's fair but rules are rules and if we teach our children at a young age that they can skirt around the rules where does that lead them in the future? Another thing, where was the girl's mother? Why didn't she check the lunch box or back pack? Time can't be a reason as it takes seconds to open a bag and look in it.

It was meant to quote you, I quoted the wrong thing..

Which girl? The one with IB profen?

I don't believe they should be able to 'skirt around the rules' but I do believe it isnt right to hand out the same punishments for vassly different crimes. If a kid brings a glock 9MM to school, do you think he/she should suffer the same punishment of the kid that brought the plastic knife to school?

IMO, The punishments should vary for each case, and the severity of the crime.

It was meant to quote you, I quoted the wrong thing..

Which girl? The one with IB profen?

I don't believe they should be able to 'skirt around the rules' but I do believe it isnt right to hand out the same punishments for vassly different crimes. If a kid brings a glock 9MM to school, do you think he/she should suffer the same punishment of the kid that brought the plastic knife to school?

IMO, The punishments should vary for each case, and the severity of the crime.

I think in a more simple world that would work out well but with our schools understaffed and over crowded the only simple solution is ZT. This way EVERY kid and parent knows EXACTLY what's expected of them, what's allowed, what's not allowed and so on. It does suck but what other choice do schools have? We can't keep raising taxes to hire more help because we (tax payers) are taxed to death as it is.

The problem with "zero tolerance" is that it leaves no room for a case-by-case analysis. It leads to situations where plastic knives in lunch boxes or tylenol in your purse would be grounds for mandatory expulsion.
:agree

I would have never have thought of a plastic butterknife as something that shouldn't be brought to school. A weapon? WTF. If that is the case, then no plastic silverware should be allowed, including the sporks that most schools supply to eat with. Why? You can break the head off the handle and there you have a sharp weapon. Much more dangerous than the original intact plastic butter knife. Come on, get real.

I think in a more simple world that would work out well but with our schools understaffed and over crowded the only simple solution is ZT. This way EVERY kid and parent knows EXACTLY what's expected of them, what's allowed, what's not allowed and so on. It does suck but what other choice do schools have? We can't keep raising taxes to hire more help because we (tax payers) are taxed to death as it is.


So, how does it cost tax payers money to punish each case accordingly? If we impose stricter punishment for something less severe, how is that saving any money?

I agree, the schools are highly understaffed. But, ZT isnt exactly the answer to that. I just feel as though each case should be treated differently. The child with the glock 9MM should be expelled and criminal charges brought up, and the kid with the plastic knife.. 10 days suspension with community service... Just for example.

So, how does it cost tax payers money to punish each case accordingly? If we impose stricter punishment for something less severe, how is that saving any money?

I agree, the schools are highly understaffed. But, ZT isnt exactly the answer to that. I just feel as though each case should be treated differently. The child with the glock 9MM should be expelled and criminal charges brought up, and the kid with the plastic knife.. 10 days suspension with community service... Just for example.

You're right ZT isn't the answer for the under staffing BUT until that answer is found ZT seems to be working. Though it punishes across the board it has proven to cut back on the severe crimes in schools so if ZT takes one gun out of a school, one bully off of the play ground, and drugs off of school property I'm all for it. I also want to add that we have two children in public schools and they are both well aware of the punishments they will face if an infraction is made. Be it fair or not they are the rules and the children must follow them.

You're right ZT isn't the answer for the under staffing BUT until that answer is found ZT seems to be working. Though it punishes across the board it has proven to cut back on the severe crimes in schools so if ZT takes one gun out of a school, one bully off of the play ground, and drugs off of school property I'm all for it. I also want to add that we have two children in public schools and they are both well aware of the punishments they will face if an infraction is made. Be it fair or not they are the rules and the children must follow them.

Dont get me wrong, im 100% for making schools safer. I just feel as though punishing a 2 kids the same for severly different crimes, isnt the nessasary actions that should be taken.

I have a daughter in the public school system :sigh And it doesnt make me feel safe knowing a child that brings motrin to school is going to get in the same amount of trouble as the kid who brings morphine.

It would be like saying crime on the streets should be punished across the board as well. Each crime is different and all aspects of the crime should be considered in the process of punishment.

I'm not reading all the replies because I know exactly where I stand on this. I have an issue with zero tolerance, because I believe there is an exception to just about every rule.

I read a story last year about a child being expelled from her middle school because her mother sent her to school with cough medicine. IMO, that's excessive. I also read - awhile back - about a child who was expelled because he brought a squirt gun to school in his backpack. I think both of these cases were extreme and I do not believe that the correct way to address either case was to expel the student.

If someone brings marijuana to school, sure. If someone brings a frickin' glock, ok! But cough syrup or a squirt gun? Don't waste my time. I think the problem is that the perameters of "zero tolerance" do not allow any room for those of us that reside in Commonsenseville.

I'm not reading all the replies because I know exactly where I stand on this. I have an issue with zero tolerance, because I believe there is an exception to just about every rule.

I read a story last year about a child being expelled from her middle school because her mother sent her to school with cough medicine. IMO, that's excessive. I also read - awhile back - about a child who was expelled because he brought a squirt gun to school in his backpack. I think both of these cases were extreme and I do not believe that the correct way to address either case was to expel the student.

If someone brings marijuana to school, sure. If someone brings a frickin' glock, ok! But cough syrup or a squirt gun? Don't waste my time. I think the problem is that the perameters of "zero tolerance" do not allow any room for those of us that reside in Commonsenseville.

Did I miss the bandwagon that went there? :teehee

I agree, Becca. Each case should be punished according to the severity of it.

Dont get me wrong, im 100% for making schools safer. I just feel as though punishing a 2 kids the same for severly different crimes, isnt the nessasary actions that should be taken.

I have a daughter in the public school system :sigh And it doesnt make me feel safe knowing a child that brings motrin to school is going to get in the same amount of trouble as the kid who brings morphine.

It would be like saying crime on the streets should be punished across the board as well. Each crime is different and all aspects of the crime should be considered in the process of punishment.

I'm not trying to argue with you but if a child takes Motrin to school with a note and directly to the nurses office like it says in their handbook they would have NEVER gotten into trouble in the first place. This is another example of if the child and parent would have read the handbook and rules they never would have gotten in trouble. We are all going to have rules that we don't agree with but we have to follow them. Look at some of the laws this country has. Stupid yes, but we will be arrested if we break them.

Did I miss the bandwagon that went there? :teehee

I agree, Becca. Each case should be punished according to the severity of it.

Geez I thought we sent someone back for ya... :giggle

I'm not trying to argue with you but if a child takes Motrin to school with a note and directly to the nurses office like it says in their handbook they would have NEVER gotten into trouble in the first place. This is another example of if the child and parent would have read the handbook and rules they never would have gotten in trouble. We are all going to have rules that we don't agree with but we have to follow them. Look at some of the laws this country has. Stupid yes, but we will be arrested if we break them.
Oh, im not arguing.. Just different views, this is what makes America a great country to live in, we are allowed to have different views.

We do have to follow rules. If we didnt the world would be in total chaos. But sometimes, like Becca said, there is an exception to the rule.

The child who brings a squirt gun to school IMO isnt posing a risk to my childs well-being. But the child who brings a glock 9MM to school IS most def posing a risk to my child and every child in that school.

This would be like saying someone that murders someone in cold blood should be punished the same as someone involved in vehicular man-slaughter.

There should be degrees of severity, each case should be looked at as an induvidual.

And frankly, to address Krisha's point, yes all parents should read the student handbook. But there will always be parents who don't. So is that then fair to punish the child for their parents failure to be responsible?

Not so much - not in MY book anyways.

As long as a zero tolerance policy includes intervention, counseling, and the school tries to help the student and their family, I am all for it.

Any zero tolerance policy that would kick out a student and wash their hands of them, leaving another school to possibly deal with them instead, I don't agree with.

:agree

I agree that it sucks but I just feel if parents and kids would read the rules this would be a mute issue.

You're right, it would. But they won't, and we can't ignore that.

You're right, it would. But they won't, and we can't ignore that.
Agreed, The parents *should* read the hand books and follow rules, but only in a perfect world will this happen in every situation.

And frankly, to address Krisha's point, yes all parents should read the student handbook. But there will always be parents who don't. So is that then fair to punish the child for their parents failure to be responsible?

Not so much - not in MY book anyways.

No BUT the schools go over the rules with the children, the kids (at least here) carry around the student guidelines in their planners, and they are also posted all over the schools. I'm ALL for ZT in middle and highschool, not so much in elementary but sadly kids are more mature and doing wrong at a much earlier age. If the child has parents who don't help then that's when a call to CPS should be made IMO.

It feels to me like adopting that kind of policy takes accountability off of the school administration to be smart.

A kid brings a bottle of ibuprofin to school, doesn't take it to the nurse. The school has a zero tolerance policy and the girl is expelled. Mom raises hell and the school administration says "Oops - not our fault - you should have read the handbook."

So then does that make the actions of the administration right in the first place? No - what it does is draw the criticism off of them and onto the mom that was too busy working 2 jobs and raising 5 kids to read her daughters middle school handbook.

I think it's a copout.

It feels to me like adopting that kind of policy takes accountability off of the school administration to be smart.

A kid brings a bottle of ibuprofin to school, doesn't take it to the nurse. The school has a zero tolerance policy and the girl is expelled. Mom raises hell and the school administration says "Oops - not our fault - you should have read the handbook."

So then does that make the actions of the administration right in the first place? No - what it does is draw the criticism off of them and onto the mom that was too busy working 2 jobs and raising 5 kids to read her daughters middle school handbook.

I think it's a copout.

See now I feel it's a copout for the mother blaming working two jobs and raising 5 kids the reason for the initial infraction. ANY parent has time to sit down and read a book of rules. If a parent doesn't have a spare half an hour maybe the children would be better off in another home. JMO

So CPS should get involved for a parent not reading their childrens handbook?

Some people dont have all the time in the world to sit around and read every single page of a handbook for school to know their child will be punished to the full extent for bring IB profen to school. My Mom made mistakes when I was growing up, because she didnt know it would get me into trouble.

Bottom line is, parents should use common sense when sending their children to school. The school should take into consideration each and every aspect of the situation, before jumping on the punishment bandwagon and expelling a perfectly good child for a few Advil.

But again, this is all matter of opinion. We dont live in a perfect world, and until the day we do.. Children will bring Glock 9MMs to school, and sell crack on the playground. THOSE are the kids that should be punished, not the innocent.

I wanted to add, I personally read through every page of my childs handbook. I wanna know EVERY single rule, and what the consequences are. But I know some people wont do this.

I'm not trying to argue with you but if a child takes Motrin to school with a note and directly to the nurses office like it says in their handbook they would have NEVER gotten into trouble in the first place. This is another example of if the child and parent would have read the handbook and rules they never would have gotten in trouble. We are all going to have rules that we don't agree with but we have to follow them. Look at some of the laws this country has. Stupid yes, but we will be arrested if we break them.

actually the first part isn't true, at least for my high school. if you walk in the doors and you have it out even if you have a note and you are on the way to the nurse's office you can and will get in trouble despite that note because it was in plain view.

and not EVERYONE is punished in the same way. saw it day in and day out when i was in school. the cheerleaders could bring their advil whatever and the coaches knew it and did nothing but if the average girl brought it, it was detention and all of that. do you think the example i posted in my first post about how if they even so much as suspect medication in your car they can break into your car and search it because that's "probable cause"? that's bullshit. i know it's to make school safer but i'd be pissed as hell if a tiny little starbucks mint fell out of the container and was sitting on me seat and my car got broken into because they thought it was drugs.

Bottom line is, parents should use common sense when sending their children to school. The school should take into consideration each and every aspect of the situation, before jumping on the punishment bandwagon and expelling a perfectly good child for a few Advil.



That's the reason I agree with ZT. If EVERY SINGLE child had different expectations or rules that's at least 1300 in my son's school alone. That's a lot of rules and situations to keep track of.

See now I feel it's a copout for the mother blaming working two jobs and raising 5 kids the reason for the initial infraction. ANY parent has time to sit down and read a book of rules. If a parent doesn't have a spare half an hour maybe the children would be better off in another home. JMO

So you honestly then believe then that the actions of the administration expelling a child for having a bottle of ibuprofin without taking it to the nurse is acceptable? By putting the blame on the mother, they are ridding themselves of the criticism that comes from having a bad policy.

I think that's really where we're butting heads. I think the administration has a bad policy and uses the handbook as a way to remove their own accountability and place it squarely on parents. Common sense tells me that ibu-stinkin-profin isn't a gateway drug :giggle So - the policy is bogus. It makes it so no one person has to take the accountability for making the decision to expel a student. Drugs are drugs, and cocaine is no different than ibuprofin?? Ok :hystericlaugh

That's the reason I agree with ZT. If EVERY SINGLE child had different expectations or rules that's at least 1300 in my son's school alone. That's a lot of rules and situations to keep track of.
The expectations should be a matter of guidelines. Not ZT for EVERY single situation. Each case should be dealt on a matter-of-fact basis. Not EVERy case dealt with exactly the same. Like anything else, theres degrees to all crimes AND punishment.

actually the first part isn't true, at least for my high school. if you walk in the doors and you have it out even if you have a note and you are on the way to the nurse's office you can and will get in trouble despite that note because it was in plain view.

and not EVERYONE is punished in the same way. saw it day in and day out when i was in school. the cheerleaders could bring their advil whatever and the coaches knew it and did nothing but if the average girl brought it, it was detention and all of that. do you think the example i posted in my first post about how if they even so much as suspect medication in your car they can break into your car and search it because that's "probable cause"? that's bullshit. i know it's to make school safer but i'd be pissed as hell if a tiny little starbucks mint fell out of the container and was sitting on me seat and my car got broken into because they thought it was drugs.

Those may have been YOUR SCHOOL'S rules but all schools are not the same. I don't know, I will continue to expect our children to follow the rules that their piers give them and to accept the punishments if they break them.

So you honestly then believe then that the actions of the administration expelling a child for having a bottle of ibuprofin without taking it to the nurse is acceptable? By putting the blame on the mother, they are ridding themselves of the criticism that comes from having a bad policy.

I think that's really where we're butting heads. I think the administration has a bad policy and uses the handbook as a way to remove their own accountability and place it squarely on parents. Common sense tells me that ibu-stinkin-profin isn't a gateway drug :giggle So - the policy is bogus. It makes it so no one person has to take the accountability for making the decision to expel a student. Drugs are drugs, and cocaine is no different than ibuprofin?? Ok :hystericlaugh
You make me laugh, Becca. IB-stinkin-profen :teehee

The playground druggie is not the same as the kid who brings a few advil for a headache, bottom line.

So you honestly then believe then that the actions of the administration expelling a child for having a bottle of ibuprofin without taking it to the nurse is acceptable? By putting the blame on the mother, they are ridding themselves of the criticism that comes from having a bad policy.

I think that's really where we're butting heads. I think the administration has a bad policy and uses the handbook as a way to remove their own accountability and place it squarely on parents. Common sense tells me that ibu-stinkin-profin isn't a gateway drug :giggle So - the policy is bogus. It makes it so no one person has to take the accountability for making the decision to expel a student. Drugs are drugs, and cocaine is no different than ibuprofin?? Ok :hystericlaugh

I'm not butting heads with anyone. My opinion is that children should be taught that no matter how UNFAIR rules may be you must follow them. Heck there are laws every day that I feel are STUPID and TRIVIAL but I follow them. Personally I don't care what punishment other children get or what rules they break. I try to concentrate on OUR children and making sure they respect the rules they are given while at school. ZT may suck but again it's in place and therefore should be followed until someone (maybe one of us) come up with a better system.

see i'm with becca and tiff there are different degrees of "crimes" on school property. ZT extends not only inside the school and on the playgrounds but also in the parking lots (hence my car post earlier). i grew up luckily in a district where my stuff wasn't searched when i came into the school. i have a hard time understanding how a parent can be responsible for a child when they are no longer in site of them (i.e. on the bus).

Those may have been YOUR SCHOOL'S rules but all schools are not the same. I don't know, I will continue to expect our children to follow the rules that their piers give them and to accept the punishments if they break them.

exactly and i stated that that they were my school's rules. ;)

ZT is great on paper but so is communism and we all see how that turned out

see i'm with becca and tiff there are different degrees of "crimes" on school property. ZT extends not only inside the school and on the playgrounds but also in the parking lots (hence my car post earlier). i grew up luckily in a district where my stuff wasn't searched when i came into the school. i have a hard time understanding how a parent can be responsible for a child when they are no longer in site of them (i.e. on the bus).

That is something I did NOT know until I attended our son's open house. School rules apply here from the minute they step off of OUR property in the morning until they step back ONTO our property in the afternoon. The rules also apply at all school functions. See I'm so different in the fact that I don't care if our child's stuff is searched.

I'm not butting heads with anyone. My opinion is that children should be taught that no matter how UNFAIR rules may be you must follow them. Heck there are laws every day that I feel are STUPID and TRIVIAL but I follow them. Personally I don't care what punishment other children get or what rules they break. I try to concentrate on OUR children and making sure they respect the rules they are given while at school. ZT may suck but again it's in place and therefore should be followed until someone (maybe one of us) come up with a better system.

I'm sorry if I upset you when I said "butting heads". I should have said "This is where we disagree."

That's right, ZT is in place. My point is, it shouldn't be. :dunno The initial debate question was "What do you think about zero tolerance in schools". My answer is, I think it's bogus, citing examples of why and how it's bogus, and what the school administrations do (also bogus) to remove accountability from themselves for not fixing a flawed policy.

I have an idea for a better system. COMMON SENSE. :D That's my idea. If a kid brings an illegal drug to school, throw them out. If a kid brings too much sudafed to school, put them in detention for a week. If a kid brings cough syrup, ibuprofin, etc - CHILL.

And you still didn't answer my question about whether you think the administrations behavior was acceptable expelling a child for having a bottle of ibuprofin.

That is something I did NOT know until I attended our son's open house. School rules apply here from the minute they step off of OUR property in the morning until they step back ONTO our property in the afternoon. The rules also apply at all school functions. See I'm so different in the fact that I don't care if our child's stuff is searched.
If we start allowing them to search our childrens stuff, we should allow them to search our houses and take away our guns.

Thats when privacy flys out the window, and this country wont be free anymore. I have a HUGE problem with them searching my childs things. Without good reason :no :no I would fight that to the highest of courts.

ZT is great on paper but so is communism and we all see how that turned out

I agree to a point. I also think that ZT was caused because so many parents just don't care or are too busy to care about their childrens actions anymore. So many parents like to place blame on the schools when it's their own lack of parenting that placed the child where he or she is IMO.

That is something I did NOT know until I attended our son's open house. School rules apply here from the minute they step off of OUR property in the morning until they step back ONTO our property in the afternoon. The rules also apply at all school functions. See I'm so different in the fact that I don't care if our child's stuff is searched.

if there is reasonable cause to search their stuff (i.e. the drug dog sniffs it out or the school officials get a tip) then i'm okay with it. but if they are searching everyone just because they can that's a waste of time and manpower. so if a child has a bagel on the way to school with a plastic butter knife to spread some cream cheese on (say they are on the bus) and the bus driver is feeling ornery or bitchy that day they could technically say they have a weapon. that's stupid in my eyes.

If we start allowing them to search our childrens stuff, we should allow them to search our houses and take away our guns.

Thats when privacy flys out the window, and this country wont be free anymore. I have a HUGE problem with them searching my childs things. Without good reason :no :no I would fight that to the highest of courts.


They have to have probable cause just like the police do for us.

I'm sorry if I upset you when I said "butting heads". I should have said "This is where we disagree."

That's right, ZT is in place. My point is, it shouldn't be. :dunno The initial debate question was "What do you think about zero tolerance in schools". My answer is, I think it's bogus, citing examples of why and how it's bogus, and what the school administrations do (also bogus) to remove accountability from themselves for not fixing a flawed policy.

I have an idea for a better system. COMMON SENSE. :D That's my idea. If a kid brings an illegal drug to school, throw them out. If a kid brings too much sudafed to school, put them in detention for a week. If a kid brings cough syrup, ibuprofin, etc - CHILL.

And you still didn't answer my question about whether you think the administrations behavior was acceptable expelling a child for having a bottle of ibuprofin.


I think it was acceptable because and ONLY because it's the rule. I personally don't think meds need to be in schools unless they are in the nurses office. Kids don't need to carry around meds but that's another debate in itself.

I wonder if inhalers count as part of the ZT policy.

I agree to a point. I also think that ZT was caused because so many parents just don't care or are too busy to care about their childrens actions anymore. So many parents like to place blame on the schools when it's their own lack of parenting that placed the child where he or she is IMO.

you hit the nail on the head the school is trying to relinquish their accountability to take APPROPRIATE action. appropriate action to the student in 1st grade with a butter knife you know didn't read the rules and has no mal-intent with that butter knife but the district is still going to expel them b/c the rules are stated. not all situations and actually probably very few are lack of parenting for the over the top cases we hear about (the 8th grade boys threatened with having to register as a sex offender for slapping a girls butt, or the 5 year old with the butter knife, or the student that wrote i love so-and-so on the wall). ZT was created because it's easier on the school district to look at everyone with the same lens instead of sitting down and going okay so this is little johnny's first "offense" and mom gave him a butter knife to spread cream cheese on a bagel and he threw it away right afterwards but let's expel him the same way we are expelling 15 year old timmy for having a 6 in knife on campus. that's silly

See, if you're talking about searches, I have no issues with searches. If my kids got nothing to hide, search away. If my kid has something to hide, best find it now before it's too late to get that behavior corrected.

I wonder if inhalers count as part of the ZT policy.

yep they have to be kept at the nurse at all times in most districts b/c it has medicated air

So if a kid has an asthma attack on the playground he has to run to the nurses office for his inhaler? :(

That's just sad :no

So if a kid has an asthma attack on the playground he has to run to the nurses office for his inhaler? :(

That's just sad :no

yep it happened in my jr. high once. a kid had an attack in gym and we paged the nurse and she wasn't coming so the coach sent a bunch of kids down and she tried to say that since the student wasn't there she couldn't relinquish the medication. needless to say she was fired shortly after this incident but because it's medication it's kept locked and secured in the nurse's office--at least for my district

So if a kid has an asthma attack on the playground he has to run to the nurses office for his inhaler? :(

That's just sad :no
I agree, it truly is sad that children cant keep things deemed medically nessasary at arms reach.

I think that rule is different for every school. Here a child can carry the inhaler w/a note from a doctor.

That's good :thumbsup

what do you think about this for schools?

ETA: zero tolerance for drugs, weapons, etc etc

I think it is ok as long as they use common sense in defining what constitutes drugs and weapons. A lot of school officials have done some really stupid things in the name of "zero tolerance" :duh

Yeah, I agree about the case by case basis...

Me too. I knew a girl in high school who got expelled just for sharing some Midol with another girl. They let her back in a year later, but she was way behind. That's just not right.